Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 82 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 6 15.38%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 3 7.69%
111FD/151FD - NO 5 12.82%
101FD/141FD - NO 4 10.26%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 2 5.13%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 7 17.95%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 7 17.95%
111FD/151FD - YES 4 10.26%
101FD/141FD - YES 2 5.13%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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post #2431 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post

Thanks! I'll give it a try and see how it goes. I'll drop each by 10 to start with and use the patterns as a guide.

If you can find the service manual for your model, it should have the min/max ranges for these voltages stated within it.
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post #2432 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Set rstp to 1 and lower s1, s2 and s4 to 5 below minimum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gardear1 View Post


Soooo, since I'm not supposed to go much lower than the minimums. But have to, to get all the red out(ynofsad 80-85 or 10-15 below the 134 minimums).....is my next step "the reset"?
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post #2433 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gardear1 View Post


Soooo, since I'm not supposed to go much lower than the minimums. But have to, to get all the red out(ynofsad 80-85 or 10-15 below the 134 minimums).....is my next step "the reset"?

No, don't reset. I'm currently battling "black rain" as a result of resetting my display (after never seeing it prior to the reset) and getting the voltages just right after reset is a pain. I guess you could try and keep 134 at 10 below minimum (with sad at 128) and see what happens. Try to play with S4 individually, as I have been noticing that setting it too low will give you a "dirty" picture (especially in gradients). I find that I have to keep it at factory default to get a nice clean picture.
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post #2434 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

If you can find the service manual for your model, it should have the min/max ranges for these voltages stated within it.
Not having much luck, did find one for the 5080D...not sure how different it is from mine. I've found sections detailing these settings but they don't state the default values...hmm. Just says - Setting value - Factory adjustment value.
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post #2435 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

No, don't reset. I'm currently battling "black rain" as a result of resetting my display (after never seeing it prior to the reset) and getting the voltages just right after reset is a pain. I guess you could try and keep 134 at 10 below minimum (with sad at 128) and see what happens. Try to play with S4 individually, as I have been noticing that setting it too low will give you a "dirty" picture (especially in gradients). I find that I have to keep it at factory default to get a nice clean picture.
Not trying to be difficult, just confused. If ysad controls 134 overall and i cant drop it below 128 why can I drop 134 10 below minimums? I my laymans way of thinking that would mean I could drop ysad -30 to 98. Also i thought with 134 the rule is you have to keep each one equidistant from each other. So i cant move s4 around from s1 and s3.Not true? Again not trying to he difficult. Just confused.

Bet you guys are "real" glad I started posting questions! Bear with me I'll get this eventually. Took me nearly 6 years to graduate from College too!
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post #2436 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gardear1 View Post

Not trying to be difficult, just confused. If ysad controls 134 overall and i cant drop it below 128 why can I drop 134 10 below minimums? I my laymans way of thinking that would mean I could drop ysad -30 to 98. Also i thought with 134 the rule is you have to keep each one equidistant from each other. So i cant move s4 around from s1 and s3.Not true? Again not trying to he difficult. Just confused.

Bet you guys are "real" glad I started posting questions! Bear with me I'll get this eventually. Took me nearly 6 years to graduate from College too!

The reason we stray away from adjusting sad is because, when its adjusted, the change to 134 is not reflected in the service menu, so you lose track of your "real" 134 values unless you use a formula.

Im telling you you CAN reduce 134 to 10 below minimum (given your stubborn red tint)... doesnt mean you SHOULD. Thus would be equivalent to reducing sad to 118 (while 134 are at minimum).

Ive been staring to reduce only s1 and s3 while keeping s4 at factory default. I find it gives me a cleaner picture. Not sure if this applies to non reset displays though.
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post #2437 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 07:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Ive been staring to reduce only s1 and s3 while keeping s4 at factory default. I find it gives me a cleaner picture. Not sure if this applies to non reset displays though.

i agree
i was testing with lowering s4 and i could see that bits in colors was lost right away in darker scenes.
almost like comparing 16bits and 32 bits colors.
details near black looked crap.

so i set S4 to default again
the ones that i can lower without destroying the picture is RSTP and S1.

i use the default voltages once again after the reset except for RSTP and S1 which is at 01 and 112.

to high S1 will also lower gamma near black and make the near black details to be washed out.
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post #2438 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

i agree
i was testing with lowering s4 and i could see that bits in colors was lost right away in darker scenes.
almost like comparing 16bits and 32 bits colors.
details near black looked crap.

so i set S4 to default again
the ones that i can lower without destroying the picture is RSTP and S1.

i use the default voltages once again after the reset except for RSTP and S1 which is at 01 and 112.

to high S1 will also lower gamma near black and make the near black details to be washed out.

You hit the nail in the head with the 16 bit to 32 bit comparison with regards to S4.

How about S3? Is it destroying picture quality in your tests? If so, what adverse effects are you seeing? I found that it does impact black level if left too high and adjusting it would affect its spacing with S1 and S4, causing artifacts on the internal patterns.

Update: You are totally right about S3, it does not affect black level in any way, shape or form. I went through all the internal patterns and it does not generate any artifacts. Teamwork!

Will reset with everything at default except for RSTP and S1.
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post #2439 of 2687 Old 03-01-2014, 09:06 PM
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Im going back and forth with S3. I found that keeping it at default darkens the 5% grey window, while reducing it to minimum (with S1 at minimum) brightens the 5% window. This is a total 180 to S1, as reducing S1 "darkens" the 5% window while increasing it brightens the 5% window. If I kept S3 at default, it made it more difficult to spot the 1% black bar on the get grey disc brightness pattern (and bar 17 on the avshd brightness pattern), therefore making it appear that I am clipping blacks. Having S3 at minimum (along with S1 at minimum) makes it easier to see that I am not clipping blacks. I think the separation between S1 and S3 needs to be maintained in order to not screw up your gamma.

Doing one more reset with the below voltages:

1 Vsus adjustment value: 168
2 Vysnofs adjustment value: 113
3 Vyprst adjustment value: 001
4 Vxpofs1 adjustment value: 085
5 Vxpofs2 adjustment value: 063
6 Vyknofs1,2 adjustment value: 117
7 Vyknofs3 adjustment value: 107
8 Vyknofs4 adjustment value: 149
9 Vyknofs1,2/3/4 adjustment value: 128

Pg-ice, I am still extremely interested on your observations with regards to S3.
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post #2440 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

i agree
i was testing with lowering s4 and i could see that bits in colors was lost right away in darker scenes.
almost like comparing 16bits and 32 bits colors.
details near black looked crap.

so i set S4 to default again
the ones that i can lower without destroying the picture is RSTP and S1.

i use the default voltages once again after the reset except for RSTP and S1 which is at 01 and 112.

to high S1 will also lower gamma near black and make the near black details to be washed out.

Can you provide the specific scenes you used to catch the 16 bit effect when lowering s4? I was using the ps3 menu, where the gradients became dirty and had that 16 bit color look.
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post #2441 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 02:46 AM
 
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I wroted wrong
I was lowering S3 and S4 -10 from default.

Just take any low apl scene and you will see the lost in colors and grading.

I think S3 and S4 must be at default to not screw up details near black.

Or it could have been that i was lowering the blacks to low.
I dont have any glowing blacks with the 5% window so lowering it even more maybe isnt that great for PQ.
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post #2442 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 03:17 AM
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I've not noticed any degrading of PQ at lower levels with a lower set S4 on mine, what test patterns or scenes are you using to check for this?
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post #2443 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post

Not having much luck, did find one for the 5080D...not sure how different it is from mine. I've found sections detailing these settings but they don't state the default values...hmm. Just says - Setting value - Factory adjustment value.

Usually there's a table of voltage ranges quite early on in the service manual were it explains about power fault diagnosis.
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post #2444 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 07:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

I've not noticed any degrading of PQ at lower levels with a lower set S4 on mine, what test patterns or scenes are you using to check for this?

you can use the cave scene at night in movie the Croods.
almost no light there.
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post #2445 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 01:10 PM
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I watched The Rite last night and there was some bad IR when transitioning from a bright scene to a dark scene, as I could clearly see a shadowy outline of the previous scene. Not sure if the increase in vol sus has anything to do with it, or leaving s4 at default. Or it could be rstp or s1 being at their minimums. Will do some testing tonight and report back, but oled blacks must be toned down a bit once artifacts start making their way into regular content.
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post #2446 of 2687 Old 03-02-2014, 06:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

I watched The Rite last night and there was some bad IR when transitioning from a bright scene to a dark scene,

i have a solution to the Black rain and IR problem with OLED blacks!




buy an LG OLED tv! wink.gif
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post #2447 of 2687 Old 03-03-2014, 12:22 AM
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With all the difficulties that I've had with my display, trust me when I say, do NOT, under any circumstance, reset your display. Doing so throws off the panel's aging algorithms, necessitating voltage adjustments to remove resulting artifacts including, but not limited to, magenta misfires, black rain and image retention. I was not experiencing any of these prior to reset, and achieved inky blacks by reducing only RSTP and S1, S3 and S4 (the latter 3 by the same amount) - while staying within the factory recommended ranges.

After reset, VOL SUS needs to be increased to remove magenta misfires, which are a symptom of under voltage. Despite my past observations, RSTP needs to be increased in order to remove black lag / black rain. I had to increase mine to 36 to have absolutely no sign of black rain. RSTP seems to be the voltage that "wakes up" the sleeping pixels, and after resetting, this voltage (more accurately, the value of RSTP) needs to increase. Prior to reset, I could set RSTP to 2 with no sign of black rain. The problem with raising RSTP after reset is that black level suffers a tremendous increase. To counter this black level rise, I reduced S1 and S3 to minimum, while keeping S4 at factory default (to avoid the 16 it color effect that I have observed when setting this below default), which gave me inky blacks at a cost - black rain is back (though not as aggressive as when lowering RSTP). Only way to remove black rain at this stage was to increase RSTP to a whopping 60! Though, as you might guess, my blacks went back to their level when I had RSTP at 36 and S1 and S3 at default.

What I ended up doing is, I set RSTP to 0 and turned off the display (pressing the power button on the bottom left). I turned it back on and RSTP reverted back to its factory default (18). From what I understand, this is the only voltage that is set at the factory per display, so my factory default will not necessarily equal yours. Once RSTP was at default, I increased VOL SUS to 168 (this is the value that cleared magenta sparkles on all internal patterns) and reduced S1 and S3 to factory minimum to lower black level. I reset the display and will proceed with running slides so the panel settles in.
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post #2448 of 2687 Old 03-03-2014, 03:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

What is x and y sus b?

I used this method a few years ago - I discovered after a lot of voltage testing that these were the only thing voltages on the second page that actually had any effect on misfiring artefacts (one stuck blue pixel in my case post reset 500A at the top middle near the bezel)

One click lower was enough way back in the day on the xsus i 'think'

I would need to refer back to my extensive range of notes to see if that was it exactly
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post #2449 of 2687 Old 03-03-2014, 06:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Anyone ever think how boring A/V life would be once we all have OLEDs? No more tweaking required to get awesome blacks. frown.gif

remember what i told you smile.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493578/lg-55ea9800-55-oled-owners-thread/180#post_24432337

start pixel peep those...
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post #2450 of 2687 Old 03-03-2014, 02:20 PM
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I would like to try an OLED out . compare it to my 101 . someday smile.gif
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post #2451 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 09:38 AM
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Just out of curiosity has anyone just reset the pulse meter and nothing else, on a tv that has never been reset before. My rstp stock value 5 so I have no headroom. When I lower it the reddish tint and the gray blacks start to go away. I feel like if I could lower it more it would solve the problem. I was wondering if only resetting the pulse meter would just effect the rstp and nothing else.
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post #2452 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 10:14 AM
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What menu is the rstp value? Just curious to check mine after reading others.

home theater addict
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post #2453 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 10:28 AM
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What menu is the rstp value? Just curious to check mine after reading others.

Panel adjust 1
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post #2454 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 10:36 AM
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I am almost done with a program that will automatically generate a report of all service menu (and regular) settings in a matter of seconds. Since the command outputs are different between the monitor and TV Kuros, I need a 5020, 6020, 111fd or 151fd owner to provide me with the output of the below commands so I can ensure that my program works with these models. Thanks in advance.

qs1
qs2
qs3
qs5
qsp
qaj
qpw
qpf
qpm
qpd
qsd
qse
qmt
qng
qsi

For 111fd and 151fd I'll also need the output of the below commands. These are exclusive to the monitors, but want to see if they wok on the 111fd or 151fd, as the service manual for these two does not have a commands section.

qap
qis
qos
qpi
qps
qs1
qs4
qst
qsu
qwb
rip
rma
qng
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post #2455 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 10:37 AM
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PANEL-1 ADJ Menu
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post #2456 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 11:20 AM
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What menu is the rstp value? Just curious to check mine after reading others.

Saprano

Let us know your build date , RSTP value , along with your other values in that menu ,

Thanks
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post #2457 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 12:13 PM
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Saprano

Let us know your build date , RSTP value , along with your other values in that menu ,

Thanks

How exactly do i get there?

home theater addict
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post #2458 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 12:23 PM
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How exactly do i get there?

Once in the service menu, use your factory remote , hit enter ,mute ,enter , then arrow down 4 times , should be panel adjust -1 , hit enter and you will see the first voltage , arrow up and down to see the next one and then the the next , and the next , hit enter to exit . If you have any questions I can help , I own a 151 same as you , mine is a crappy build date though mad.gif
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post #2459 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

Once in the service menu, use your factory remote , hit enter ,mute ,enter , then arrow down 4 times , should be panel adjust -1 , hit enter and you will see the first voltage , arrow over to see the next one and then the the next , and the next , hit enter to exit . If you have any questions I can help , I own a 151 same as you , mine is a crappy build date though mad.gif

What's your build date? Mine is March 2009.

When you say arrow over you mean click right or press down?

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post #2460 of 2687 Old 03-04-2014, 12:37 PM
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What's your build date? Mine is March 2009.

When you say arrow over you mean click right or press down?

down... right or left will change the values
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