Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 88 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 10 19.23%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 3 5.77%
111FD/151FD - NO 6 11.54%
101FD/141FD - NO 6 11.54%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 4 7.69%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 10 19.23%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 7 13.46%
111FD/151FD - YES 5 9.62%
101FD/141FD - YES 2 3.85%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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post #2611 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 04:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

My personal opinion is that the algorithms are broken after reset,

if that is true you will also brake the algorithms if you replace the panel.

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post #2612 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

My personal opinion is that the algorithms are broken after reset,

if that is true you will also brake the algorithms if you replace the panel.


Yes they are. But the thing believes it's new again - and is looking for independent/individual adjustments - just as it "should" have done before it left the factory basically.

If playing only with voltages - surely it's knocked out of timing/sync as to what the computer is trying to achieve.

But as the saying goes - there is more than one way to skin a cat.
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post #2613 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

you mean to low ? I have adjusted S1 S3 and S4 extensively , I have found the sweet spot ,

Just wanted to know if Adjusting the power supply board was a better option , It has worked for other members with the same issue, even when replacing the power supply with a new one did not help.

I meant low, sorry. Never adjusted power supply board.
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post #2614 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

if that is true you will also brake the algorithms if you replace the panel.


No because you replaced the panel as well. By broken I mean out of synch with panel.
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post #2615 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 07:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

No because you replaced the panel as well. By broken I mean out of synch with panel.

Yes but that brings us back to the main problem.
Red Tint
If the algorithms was in sync with the aging panel then the red tint shouldnt be there.
By doning the reset we bring the algorithms closer to where they should be with the panel.
The red tint disappears right after a reset.
It allways does.

Also you didnt have any red tint when you did the reset right.

I would say that it is impossible to have the algorithms in sync with the panel because they are wrong from the beginning.

My cents smile.gif


Many cents here.
We are going to be rich soon wink.gif
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post #2616 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 07:55 PM
 
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the usual stuff in other words.
i think its the tv this time wink.gif
To be fair, somelogin was speaking from a collective sense including bitching from the loudest complainers (Plague and m'self) since he's banned from AVS. His is pixel-perfect, and the latest concerning my uneven wear from 2.35:1 is that I have put a wrecking ball to it with white slide usage. The set ain't perfect, but it ain't over (gen 2 right around the corner).
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post #2617 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 07:57 PM
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Surely algorithms must be affected by voltage adjustments - and vice-versa...

Because if it was only algorithms (cpu) telling the voltages what to do as the panel ages (phosphor ageing compensation).. Then why does the manual not have an exact number for every panel and specific voltage/voltages.

So surely (my two cents btw wink.gif that adjustments of voltages - have an effect on (future) algorithms after reset.

Otherwise what would be the point of the service manual/voltage individual/independent voltage adjustments ?

All i can give is there is an over voltage at some point in the ageing of the phosphors - which is told by the computer to up the voltage to the panel.

I would still feel the need then to lower a voltage or voltages post reset that i know from personal experience that directly affects the red tint (post) reset to see if that helps - like it did (perhaps) my last 500, before this not afflicted yet 500
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post #2618 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 10:31 PM
 
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All i can give is there is an over voltage at some point in the ageing of the phosphors - which is told by the computer to up the voltage to the panel.

maybe the answer is in PANEL FUNCTION (+)

"A level setting for panel degradation correction can be made"

maybe changes there can slow the aging algorithms down or speed them up

but to see any changes there takes time
make one adjustment and wait 100 hours so you can compare the MLL to before
i think i skip that wink.gif

but ok if you set every value to max you should get a faster response.

???
Streaking correction STK MODE <=> SKM
Black display mode FULL BLACK <=>

but one thing for sure is that changes made in PANEL FUNCTION (+) will not change anything right away as you can notice.
every setting in PANEL FUNCTION (+) must be for future corrections to the panel
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Originally Posted by qwknuf6 View Post

So I have a 151 with magenta trails when moving from dark to light images , I can rid the magenta trails by raising RSTP...... S1 S3 and S4 , or would it be better to try the VOL ADJ screw on the power supply board ,

You reset?
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post #2620 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 10:58 PM
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No because you replaced the panel as well. By broken I mean out of synch with panel.

It's like people stop reading the part where you're replacing the entire panel! People keep quoting the manual and leaving the main point of the whole process out.

Safest way to reset if you want to go that route is replace main board and reset it.

I don't care what anyone says. I have reset so many times now with a 60". I have swapped and flashed so many boards now. I have done my share of research.

After so many hours and if you perform a reset. No matter what combination you think is staring you in the face. You will not remove all artifacts! Even a low hour 60" with reset, your panel will be blotchy and will have black rain. Reset only if you are willing to swap main boards to see if you can succeed. Only after you try tweaking. Resetting creates way more issues then you want to ever deal with.

These panels all follow the same line of design. It's total bs that panels differ so far from each other. There are specific ranges for each voltage. Even after a reset there is specific voltages that will make improvements. And if they don't there is no way to fix it. If there is post the voltages and the ranges. Snake oil isn't for me.
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post #2621 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

All i can give is there is an over voltage at some point in the ageing of the phosphors - which is told by the computer to up the voltage to the panel.

maybe the answer is in PANEL FUNCTION (+)

"A level setting for panel degradation correction can be made"

maybe changes there can slow the aging algorithms down or speed them up

but to see any changes there takes time
make one adjustment and wait 100 hours so you can compare the MLL to before
i think i skip that wink.gif

but ok if you set every value to max you should get a faster response.

???
Streaking correction STK MODE <=> SKM
Black display mode FULL BLACK <=>

but one thing for sure is that changes made in PANEL FUNCTION (+) will not change anything right away as you can notice.
every setting in PANEL FUNCTION (+) must be for future corrections to the panel

Tbh mate the tint only usually starts on one side or along the edges of one side. That degradation settings is only for ageing red the fastest - which is correct - followed by green - and then blue of course being the fastest to age.

Nah this tint is an exciting of red phosphors by an over voltage on a specific part of the screen before spreading in most cases.

But yeah what FULL BLACK off or mode 1 means ? ? :confused.gif
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post #2622 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:16 PM
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Shockfett keep your incompetence and negativity to yourself please lol.

Lots of people have managed it before you - and afterwards lots will again tongue.gif
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post #2623 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:19 PM
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Shockfett keep your incompetence and negativity to yourself please lol.

Lots of people have managed it before you - and afterwards lots will again tongue.gif

I'm talking about 60" bro! And I was successful on a low hour panel reset. I'm not speaking on a 50" have no experience on one. Just like you zero on a 60" bro smile.gif.
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post #2624 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:24 PM
 
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I have reset so many times now with a 60". I have swapped and flashed so many boards now. I have done my share of research.
.


did you do this when you replaced the boards or how was it?
memory is short wink.gif
Quote:
If the DIGITAL Assy is replaced, those adjustment data for backup can be copied from the EEPROM on the PANEL SENSOR
Assy to a new DIGITAL Assy.

have you done a reset on a 60" with its original assy board?
same result?
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post #2625 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Shockfett keep your incompetence and negativity to yourself please lol.

Lots of people have managed it before you - and afterwards lots will again tongue.gif

I'm talking about 60" bro! And I was successful on a low hour panel reset. I'm not speaking on a 50" have no experience on one. Just like you zero on a 60" bro smile.gif.

smile.gif

The principles remain the same though wink.gif

What there isn't one person since 2011 that fixed their own 60" KURO without artefacts ?

I thought mascior had tbh
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post #2626 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pg_ice View Post

did you do this when you replaced the boards or how was it?
memory is short wink.gif
have you done a reset on a 60" with its original assy board?
same result?

Done it all

Like I stated I flashed several times and reset. If you quote the manual you know exactly what I'm referring to.
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post #2627 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

smile.gif

The principles remain the same though wink.gif

What there isn't one person since 2011 that fixed their own 60" KURO without artefacts ?

I thought mascior had tbh

99% of you guys resetting have 50".

Like I said I was successful (meaning blotchy screen and black rain) reseting a low hour 60".

And yes the principles are the same that's my point.
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post #2628 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:32 PM
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Why not just take it to a plasma engineer - he will measure it and put in the correct voltages for you.

It isn't covered by warranty. But yeah the voltages (are) there to be adjusted in line with the ahe of your panel
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post #2629 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Why not just take it to a plasma engineer - he will measure it and put in the correct voltages for you.

It isn't covered by warranty. But yeah the voltages (are) there to be adjusted in line with the ahe of your panel

I guess I could to try to learn more. But honestly all my panels are perfect right now lol! I only been testing reset and tweaking to learn more. Swapping boards flashing voltages etc. yeah my head hurts lol!

As of today all my panels have zero red tint and I scored a 9.5 I tweaked that drops blacks like they're hot lol!

Stu did qwknuf reset his 60?
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post #2630 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:39 PM
 
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But yeah the voltages (are) there to be adjusted in line with the ahe of your panel

i agree here
its a must to reset the meters if you replace the panel right.
its also stated which voltages you must adjust afterwards.

so why hide any voltages?
every voltage that you may need to correct issues must be in the SM.
it seems harder for some to find the right combinations thats all.
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post #2631 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:42 PM
 
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But honestly all my panels are perfect right now lol!

then stop complaining
Bro! wink.gif
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post #2632 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Why not just take it to a plasma engineer - he will measure it and put in the correct voltages for you.

It isn't covered by warranty. But yeah the voltages (are) there to be adjusted in line with the ahe of your panel

I guess I could to try to learn more. But honestly all my panels are perfect right now lol! I only been testing reset and tweaking to learn more. Swapping boards flashing voltages etc. yeah my head hurts lol!

As of today all my panels have zero red tint and I scored a 9.5 I tweaked that drops blacks like they're hot lol!

Stu did qwknuf reset his 60?

I have been up all night (07:40 here now) - just as well i'm doing sweet FA today lol.

But Shockfett tbh i never know if you are being serious or not half the time lol or if you are being sarcastic.

You would need to ask qwknuf6 that - he doesn't know what the issue is ' yet in reality. But i don't think he has touched it at all. It could be a power board issue he may be able to tell you more.

Anyway a Pioneer tech told me anything is fixable. Including reset misfiring. Basic stuff for engineers.
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post #2633 of 2699 Old 05-08-2014, 11:52 PM
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I have been up all night (07:40 here now) - just as well i'm doing sweet FA today lol.

But Shockfett tbh i never know if you are being serious or not half the time lol or if you are being sarcastic.

You would need to ask qwknuf6 that - he doesn't know what the issue is ' yet in reality. But i don't think he has touched it at all. It could be a power board issue he may be able to tell you more.

Anyway a Pioneer tech told me anything is fixable. Including reset misfiring. Basic stuff for engineers.

Lol!

If that's the case dang my 141a was seriously hard to iron out! Which I never could. Prob lost some hair line on that panel lol! Would love to learn what they do!
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post #2634 of 2699 Old 05-09-2014, 12:27 AM
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Bottom line is tweaking voltages should be the first option for anyone wanting to lower their black level and/or remove red tint.

If tweaking voltages does not remove red tint or elevated black level, then reset becomes part of the equation since you are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

In my experience, I did NOT see an improvement in black level when resetting (in comparison with black level after tweaking voltages only). Black level remained the same after reset, though I was greeted by the lovely black rain and enchanting IR, both of which were not there pre-reset. Yes I am able to remove both artifacts, though at a cost - an unacceptable rise in black level (which is prob the stock black level).
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post #2635 of 2699 Old 05-09-2014, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

I have been up all night (07:40 here now) - just as well i'm doing sweet FA today lol.

But Shockfett tbh i never know if you are being serious or not half the time lol or if you are being sarcastic.

You would need to ask qwknuf6 that - he doesn't know what the issue is ' yet in reality. But i don't think he has touched it at all. It could be a power board issue he may be able to tell you more.

Anyway a Pioneer tech told me anything is fixable. Including reset misfiring. Basic stuff for engineers.

Lol!

If that's the case dang my 141a was seriously hard to iron out! Which I never could. Prob lost some hair line on that panel lol! Would love to learn what they do!

Here is all i know. They do have measuring equipment for being able to pinpoint voltages. They have to know how to do it to perform resets successfully every time if they needed to as per service manuals. If they can't clear misfires it's usually down to a failing component.

They (probably) have guides/manuals we will never see if you ask me as they are relevantly qualified

Most misfires/artefacts are related to the YDRIVE.
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Bottom line is tweaking voltages should be the first option for anyone wanting to lower their black level and/or remove red tint.

it doesnt matter
both tweaking methods is done after a reset.
they only differ in time after the reset.

so maybe the algorithms has some magic trick to reduce black rain(boost sleeping pixels) over time making it possible to lower the voltages and blacklevel without it coming back.

example:
you have a total of 800 hours on your Kuro.
you did the reset and got the black rain and IR when trying to lower the voltages and blacklevel.
put back the default voltages you had before and wait another 800 hours.
NOW lower the voltages only without doing another reset.

in that case it should be equal as "tweaking voltages only".

just speculations
taking in count that every Kuro has been reseted after a few hours of use.
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post #2637 of 2699 Old 05-09-2014, 06:43 AM
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Presumably all manufacturers reset after they figure out the "optimal" vols for each and every display as it's widely broadcast that each and every panel has different behaviour requirements/characteristics. But whether that happens in so called consumer grade electronics is anyone's guess.

If anyone finds success with any method then good luck to them - it's more than Pioneer ever did for them post taking a lot of money for each screen.

Although to be fair on Pioneer - they were taking huge losses on each panel such is the (overall) quality and abilities of these one of's.

Although that is hardly the point or any sort of viable excuse.
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post #2638 of 2699 Old 05-09-2014, 06:45 AM
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You reset?

No reset , that would be a last resort , I can clear the magenta misfires by raising S1 S3 and S4 about 10 clicks each , my RSTP is low @ 002 , these 4 controls have the most control over the magenta misfires .
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post #2639 of 2699 Old 05-09-2014, 06:54 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqQXLD8sinI

This is very similar to the problem I had with my 151

Not as bad though
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post #2640 of 2699 Old 05-09-2014, 09:11 AM
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No reset , that would be a last resort , I can clear the magenta misfires by raising S1 S3 and S4 about 10 clicks each , my RSTP is low @ 002 , these 4 controls have the most control over the magenta misfires .

First off are you values at the default values? Or have these sparkles came out of no where?
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