Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 90 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 10 19.61%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 3 5.88%
111FD/151FD - NO 5 9.80%
101FD/141FD - NO 6 11.76%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 4 7.84%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 10 19.61%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 7 13.73%
111FD/151FD - YES 5 9.80%
101FD/141FD - YES 2 3.92%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll

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post #2671 of 2699 Old 05-11-2014, 07:24 AM
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None, just curious to compare and the price is good, will be easy to sell anyway.

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post #2672 of 2699 Old 05-14-2014, 12:39 AM
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Hi everyone!

Hope you and your kuros are still doing great!

My lx5090 has about 600 hours since reset back in january. Still looking great but I just realised something weird..
When I connected my laptop via hdmi (1080p60) i see a lot of magenta trails when going out of black.

Someone else having the same issue?

Please note that this is no problem with other sources (PS3, internal tuner etc). Or maybe I do not have the right material to check it correctly lol
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post #2673 of 2699 Old 05-14-2014, 06:20 AM
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Try internal test combi pattern 10 , it will show magenta pixels on the moving white lines , you may have to raise S1 S3 S4 and maybe RSTP , try 5 clicks at a time , settings S1 3 and 4 to to be moved the same amount , in other words if you move one 5 clicks move them all 5 clicks ,
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post #2674 of 2699 Old 05-14-2014, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrno View Post

Hi everyone!

Hope you and your kuros are still doing great!

My lx5090 has about 600 hours since reset back in january. Still looking great but I just realised something weird..
When I connected my laptop via hdmi (1080p60) i see a lot of magenta trails when going out of black.

Someone else having the same issue?

Please note that this is no problem with other sources (PS3, internal tuner etc). Or maybe I do not have the right material to check it correctly lol

Quick gave you excellent advice. I would also use combi mask 9 to test for magenta trails. Its best to display an all black field (via a calibration disc) when using these two patterns, as like you said, the magenta occurs when coming out of black.

You need to find the sweet spot for s1, s3 and s4. Me personally, I have rstp at 1 and s1, s3 and s4 at 10 above minimum value. I see minor magenta on both patterns (which can be removed by increasing s1, s3 and s4 by 5 each), but it never shows up in content.
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post #2675 of 2699 Old 05-14-2014, 12:11 PM
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Thanks for your advice, will give it a try!
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post #2676 of 2699 Old 05-19-2014, 11:38 AM
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I finally repaired my reset 101fd to the point where it's back to stock performance with zero artifacts AND is tweakable with minimal artifacts. I have posted my experience and the procedure below for informational purposes.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1532421/pioneer-kuro-reset-recovery-guide
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post #2677 of 2699 Old 05-24-2014, 08:41 AM
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This is a good link/thread about a Pioneer reset and firmware adjustment in Europe by Pioneer.

Only thing is its in German biggrin.gif so Google translate will be an idea for most presumably.

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-139-3336-10.html


This is from September 2011 i think.
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post #2678 of 2699 Old 05-26-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
 

ABL is at default ;)

I found the problem, all gamma values had gone down to -5, I don't know why, back to 0 is great again.


is this in the ISF modes?

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post #2679 of 2699 Old 05-26-2014, 10:51 AM
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Yes

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post #2680 of 2699 Old 06-23-2014, 10:50 PM
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I have now created a program that allows the user to run commands on any of the below Kuro models:

101fd
141fd
500m
600m
111fd
151fd
5020
6020
Non-US model equivalents to the above

What does this mean? For starters, service menu access (by executing the proper commands) on any of the above models in one simple program.

Kuro Command Program
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post #2681 of 2699 Old 07-15-2014, 08:46 AM
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Can someone post the instructions for using Controlcal to access the service menu and make the adjustments, or point me to the right page? I saw them earlier but now can't find them in this thread.

I only want to try the voltage adjustments and not do a reset.
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post #2682 of 2699 Old 07-16-2014, 12:29 PM
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controlcal has a special profile for the serv menu IRC, so you may have to get the service menu profile for access .
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post #2683 of 2699 Old 07-17-2014, 03:05 PM
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After about 1,000 hours from my third reset, the reddish-tinted elevated blacks came back on my 500M. Last night I performed my fourth reset, so now the black level is once again deep and inky. I was under the impression that one reset was all it took for the reddish-tinted elevated blacks to never come back.

One thing I noticed after I performed my third reset this past February, was that after a long time the black rain / black lag basically disappeared. The black rain / black lag came back after I reset my display last night. I guess it's an after effect of a reset, but it eventually disappears over time (after hundreds of hours, I believe).

I'm just bummed out that the reddish-tinted elevated blacks eventually return, even after a full reset is performed.

I'm really hoping that by 2015 a video display comes out that is affordable, has a black level deeper than a 500M, and has low input lag.
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post #2684 of 2699 Old 07-17-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post
After about 1,000 hours from my third reset, the reddish-tinted elevated blacks came back on my 500M. Last night I performed my fourth reset, so now the black level is once again deep and inky. I was under the impression that one reset was all it took for the reddish-tinted elevated blacks to never come back.

One thing I noticed after I performed my third reset this past February, was that after a long time the black rain / black lag basically disappeared. The black rain / black lag came back after I reset my display last night. I guess it's an after effect of a reset, but it eventually disappears over time (after hundreds of hours, I believe).

I'm just bummed out that the reddish-tinted elevated blacks eventually return, even after a full reset is performed.

I'm really hoping that by 2015 a video display comes out that is affordable, has a black level deeper than a 500M, and has low input lag.
I believe the return of the red tint and disappearance of black lag are related to the panels voltage correction algorithms that increase specific voltages (RSTP and/or SAD) over time. If one of these two voltages is set too low, you will definitely see black lag and artifacts. Your black lag disappeared because these two voltages increased over time. It seems like panels afflicted by red tint have an overaggressive aging algorithm. Instead of resetting your panel again, which essentially takes your panel back to an under-volted state (unless you perform post reset adjustments), you should have attempted to reduce RSTP and/or SAD to counteract the overaggressive algorithm, thereby reducing or eliminating the red tint. Another factor that you need to consider is that the correction algorithm is no longer in line with you panel's age, so any "corrections" that it makes will most likely be incorrect. It's up to you to correct the corrections (for lack of a better word) throughout the life of the display.

After I reset my 101fd, I followed the recovery flowcharts in the service manual to find the new starting value (or its actual value before I reset) for SAD. I ended up with a value of 158, up 30 ticks from the 128 default. I had no black lag, all patterns were artifact free and black level measurement was 0 using my i1D3 (which can read as low as .001). It has only been 200 hours since the reset and the black level now measures .002 with a hint of red tint. This tells me that one or both of those voltages increased due to a correction performed by the algorithm. I will perform the recovery flowchart again to determine which voltage increased as part of the "correction" and try undo it.
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post #2685 of 2699 Old 07-17-2014, 03:38 PM
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After a reset your display is a new one, so it is driven as it does on an all new kuro. It's overdriven for at least 200 hours, and settles down to normal between 400 and 500 hours.
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post #2686 of 2699 Old 07-17-2014, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
I ended up with a value of 158, up 30 ticks from the 128 default. I had no black lag, all patterns were artifact free and black level measurement was 0 using my i1D3 (which can read as low as .001). It has only been 200 hours since the reset and the black level now measures .002 with a hint of red tint. This tells me that one or both of those voltages increased due to a correction performed by the algorithm. I will perform the recovery flowchart again to determine which voltage increased as part of the "correction" and try undo it.
Same story on mine with the same meter, but still 0 after 500 hours on the 0% grayscale APL small pattern.
Try my settings, 135 FSAD and VSUS and push to 400 hours, then try again. No more black rain nor IR after that time. Put all RGB values to 0 on controlcal for the test, if some RGB settings are not set well it will increase the black level too.
My panel is quite young (4k hours) and yours is too if I recall, there's a chance they behave similarly with the voltages.
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post #2687 of 2699 Old 07-17-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
Same story on mine with the same meter, but still 0 after 500 hours on the 0% grayscale APL small pattern.
Try my settings, 135 FSAD and VSUS and push to 400 hours, then try again. No more black rain nor IR after that time. Put all RGB values to 0 on controlcal for the test, if some RGB settings are not set well it will increase the black level too.
My panel is quite young (4k hours) and yours is too if I recall, there's a chance they behave similarly with the voltages.
Ill go through flowcharts first and keep aging until 500 hrs.
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post #2688 of 2699 Old 07-27-2014, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn1 View Post
After about 1,000 hours from my third reset, the reddish-tinted elevated blacks came back on my 500M. Last night I performed my fourth reset, so now the black level is once again deep and inky. I was under the impression that one reset was all it took for the reddish-tinted elevated blacks to never come back.

One thing I noticed after I performed my third reset this past February, was that after a long time the black rain / black lag basically disappeared. The black rain / black lag came back after I reset my display last night. I guess it's an after effect of a reset, but it eventually disappears over time (after hundreds of hours, I believe).

I'm just bummed out that the reddish-tinted elevated blacks eventually return, even after a full reset is performed.

I'm really hoping that by 2015 a video display comes out that is affordable, has a black level deeper than a 500M, and has low input lag.
The experience of a reset of a KURO is no (after 2.5k hours) returning of red tint. The one i think might be helping us a lowering of YKNOFS3D post reset.

I raised SUS, kept RSTP at default, lowered YKNOFS1D (white misfires) raised YKNOFSAD the same amount as VOL SUS to 153 or thereabouts.

YKNOFS3D i lowered to 123, which had a slight effect on red tint if raising post red tint.

It's not in line with the recovery flowchart. But IMO the recovery flowchart in the service manuals is only relevant for new phosphors (new panels), not heavily aged ones.
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post #2689 of 2699 Old 07-27-2014, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post
The experience of a reset of a KURO is no (after 2.5k hours) returning of red tint. The one i think might be helping us a lowering of YKNOFS3D post reset.

I raised SUS, kept RSTP at default, lowered YKNOFS1D (white misfires) raised YKNOFSAD the same amount as VOL SUS to 153 or thereabouts.

YKNOFS3D i lowered to 123, which had a slight effect on red tint if raising post red tint.

It's not in line with the recovery flowchart. But IMO the recovery flowchart in the service manuals is only relevant for new phosphors (new panels), not heavily aged ones.
Why would you lower S1 and S3 and increase SAD? As per the service manual, SAD is used to adjust S1, S3 and S4 equally. Your 5 tick reduction of S3 (from 128 to 123) is undone by your 25 tick increase of SAD (from 128 to 153). Therefore, leaving SAD at its default 128 and increasing S3 by 20 (from 128 to 148) would have yielded the same results. Your "lowering" of S1 is also undone by you increasing SAD. So in reality, you increased S1 from its starting point.

Either adjust SAD or S1, S3, and S4 individually. Adjusting both in opposite directions is a bit counter-intuitive don't you think?

Last edited by makaveddie81; 07-27-2014 at 03:13 AM.
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post #2690 of 2699 Old 07-27-2014, 03:31 AM
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There is no hard and fast rules to post reset adjustments on an aged panel. My adjustments worked for that particular panel.

Unless you are able to tell me exactly what voltage algorithms are happening on that UK built and set up KRP500A and what hands on experience you had with that particular panel then refrain from passing judgement.

I am not feeding the/A ^^troll^^ with the mysterious crystal ball.
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post #2691 of 2699 Old 07-27-2014, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post
There is no hard and fast rules to post reset adjustments on an aged panel. My adjustments worked for that particular panel.

Unless you are able to tell me exactly what voltage algorithms are happening on that UK built and set up KRP500A and what hands on experience you had with that particular panel then refrain from passing judgement.

I am not feeding the/A ^^troll^^ with the mysterious crystal ball.
Just asking a simple question, bud. Never said there were post reset adjustment rules that we should all abide to, just gave my 2 cents with regards to your methodology, just like you did when you opined that the service manual flowchart is only for new panels.
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post #2692 of 2699 Old 09-09-2014, 08:23 PM
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Is there any way to actually fix this red tint I have a 101FD with 2900 hours and it exhibits this phenomenon and it is so dreadful to look at I just can't not stand it. Is there a way to make it look less severe without doing a reset.
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post #2693 of 2699 Old 09-09-2014, 10:48 PM
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Is there any way to actually fix this red tint I have a 101FD with 2900 hours and it exhibits this phenomenon and it is so dreadful to look at I just can't not stand it. Is there a way to make it look less severe without doing a reset.
I sent you a PM. Did you happen to purchase it in Santa Monica, CA?
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post #2694 of 2699 Old 09-11-2014, 05:27 AM
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What Voltages To Adjust?

Hi,

This is exactly the problem with my 500M. Can you spare me from having to dig through this long thread and tell me what voltages you adjusted to fix it?

I do not want to do a reset unless absolutely necessary. Only as a last resort.

Thank you!

--Mark--

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Originally Posted by tubby497 View Post
Standard red tinted KRP: 30 sec exposure


Tweaked KRP: 30 sec exposure, no glow


Voltage adjustments only. My panel has not been reset.
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post #2695 of 2699 Old 09-11-2014, 12:01 PM
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Hi,

This is exactly the problem with my 500M. Can you spare me from having to dig through this long thread and tell me what voltages you adjusted to fix it?

I do not want to do a reset unless absolutely necessary. Only as a last resort.

Thank you!

--Mark--

Lower your RSTP to 002 , make note of your original setting first , That would be the firsrt adjustment I would try . There are other settings you can tweak but just try this and tell us what it does .
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post #2696 of 2699 Old 09-11-2014, 09:29 PM
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Lower your RSTP to 002 , make note of your original setting first , That would be the first adjustment I would try . There are other settings you can tweak but just try this and tell us what it does .
Thanks.

Can you refresh my memory on where to access that setting? It has been 5 years since I have worked with any of this. Do I use ControlCal? I have been looking through all my notes from 2009 but can't find this.

Thanks again,

--Mark--
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post #2697 of 2699 Old 09-12-2014, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkyM View Post
Thanks.

Can you refresh my memory on where to access that setting? It has been 5 years since I have worked with any of this. Do I use ControlCal? I have been looking through all my notes from 2009 but can't find this.

Thanks again,

--Mark--
If you have a service remote I can tell you how to get there , some one else may have to help you if you have any other program .
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post #2698 of 2699 Old 09-12-2014, 09:26 PM
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If you have a service remote I can tell you how to get there , some one else may have to help you if you have any other program .
Thanks but I don't have a service remote.
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post #2699 of 2699 Old Yesterday, 01:38 AM
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I played with quite a few settings but eventually had more problems than it was worth so went back to my original settings. On a no signal black screen I have a huge red blob in the middle but in content I'm not really noticing it so I think I'm resigned to leaving it as it is.
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