Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 15 14.29%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 4 3.81%
111FD/151FD - NO 15 14.29%
101FD/141FD - NO 9 8.57%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 8 7.62%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 25 23.81%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 14 13.33%
111FD/151FD - YES 8 7.62%
101FD/141FD - YES 6 5.71%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 4 3.81%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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post #2851 of 2878 Old 07-23-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
??? I don't find this YSAD value that you are speaking about. I get into the factory settings, the first I see is VOL SUS (at 128), if I scroll down, I see many other values but no trace of this YSAD you are talking about. Mine it's a LX6090 (not the H version).
Try looking for VOL YKNOFSA D, I think that is what is being referred to.

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post #2852 of 2878 Old 07-23-2015, 11:12 AM
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it goes FS1....FS3......FS4....then FSA(VOL YKNOFSA D) factory setting is 128 for the 60" panel
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post #2853 of 2878 Old 07-23-2015, 01:15 PM
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So how important do you guys think it is choosing specific values for your voltages? I just changed from default values to the minimum recommended values, with the exception of RST P, I stopped at 4. It obviously did the trick since the black levels went from being red tinted to not quite OLED black, but black enough to melt into the bezel on all occasions except for a full black screen. Was this a "mistake?" Should I not have dropped the settings so vastly so soon? Should I experiment by finding the sweetspot between the highest number possible without the reds being black? If my blacks get tinted again, will I have to lower my numbers even more? (which will eventually stop as you get lower them forever)


Oh and I've noticed one problem... When I turn the TV on the blacks for some reason are completely light gray (think Panasonic plasma from 2008 or Samsung plasma from 2009) until after about 5 or 10 seconds then the screen "adjusts" by toning the blacks down from what LOOKS like 0.06cd/m2 down to what looks like 0.003cd/m2. Why the light gray in the begining? how come it takes a short while for the TV to produce proper blacks?

Thanks in advance
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post #2854 of 2878 Old 07-23-2015, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
So how important do you guys think it is choosing specific values for your voltages? I just changed from default values to the minimum recommended values, with the exception of RST P, I stopped at 4. It obviously did the trick since the black levels went from being red tinted to not quite OLED black, but black enough to melt into the bezel on all occasions except for a full black screen. Was this a "mistake?" Should I not have dropped the settings so vastly so soon? Should I experiment by finding the sweetspot between the highest number possible without the reds being black? If my blacks get tinted again, will I have to lower my numbers even more? (which will eventually stop as you get lower them forever)
What model Kuro do you have?

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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Oh and I've noticed one problem... When I turn the TV on the blacks for some reason are completely light gray (think Panasonic plasma from 2008 or Samsung plasma from 2009) until after about 5 or 10 seconds then the screen "adjusts" by toning the blacks down from what LOOKS like 0.06cd/m2 down to what looks like 0.003cd/m2. Why the light gray in the begining? how come it takes a short while for the TV to produce proper blacks?
This is part of the start up process, so it's normal.
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post #2855 of 2878 Old 07-24-2015, 04:01 AM
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I ended up with modifying the following values (LX-6090):

VOLT RST P 18 --->5
VOL YKNOFS1D 86 --->76
VOL YKNOFS3D 96 --->86
VOL YKNOFS4D 143 --->133
VOL YKNOFSAD 128 --->180

The magenta trailing pixels display very rarely (not at all in the Kuro 2008 "kick scene"), just from full screen color transitions (ie. from my HTPC's desktop, which is black, to Kodi's home window which is very light brown; Transparency skin Videos background, for those in the know). Black seems more uniform and with less red tint (none, probably).

Is there something you'd suggest to eliminate the traling pixels while mantaining good blacks (or getting better blacks, who knows?).

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post #2856 of 2878 Old 07-24-2015, 07:15 AM
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You will have to raise FSAD or RSTP until the magenta trails from dark to light go away , I find rasing FSAD the best for removing magenta trails and still keeping good black levels ,
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post #2857 of 2878 Old 07-24-2015, 08:55 AM
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But how do RSTP and FSAD interact? Can I lower the first while raising the second? I seem to remember somebody suggesting not to lower RSTP, but then I see people bringing it down to 1 and stating that it's all good. Information is all over the place, unfortunately.

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post #2858 of 2878 Old 07-24-2015, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
But how do RSTP and FSAD interact? Can I lower the first while raising the second? I seem to remember somebody suggesting not to lower RSTP, but then I see people bringing it down to 1 and stating that it's all good. Information is all over the place, unfortunately.
People suggest to drop RSTP to 1 because its the lowest number within the adjustable range as stated in the service manual, I believe.
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post #2859 of 2878 Old 07-24-2015, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pdogg93 View Post
People suggest to drop RSTP to 1 because its the lowest number within the adjustable range as stated in the service manual, I believe.
This is correct. If we had more range for RSTP, there wouldn't be a need to lower SAD, which in my experience, lowering it has a much more negative effect on picture and calibration than lowering RSTP.
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post #2860 of 2878 Old 07-25-2015, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
What model Kuro do you have?



This is part of the start up process, so it's normal.
Oh glad its normal. The model I have is Kuro LX 5090, the European 2008 model which sits just under the KRP 500-A.
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post #2861 of 2878 Old 07-25-2015, 08:58 AM
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I'm in a bit of a Catch 22, though.

If I raise FSAD enough not to have magenta pixels trailing (I'm using the kick sequence in Kuro 2008, really nice for that) my black levels raise a lot. I then lower RSTP to 1 and they get better but magenta pixels trail once more... leading me to raising FSAD and... well, blacks go again.

Is this something a reset could fix? To be honest I am more than a little upset with Pioneer. My panel has less than 10,000 hours on it and it began showing red tint and magenta pixels trailing. It's all well and good to claim the half brightness timings at 100,000 hours or whatever they were claiming, but if the panel becomes DEFECTIVE after less than one tenth of that... way to go, really.

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post #2862 of 2878 Old 08-08-2015, 08:36 AM
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I decided to try and lower voltages on my 151 to see how dark it can go. My stock settings are

Vol SUS 128
Vol offset 068
Vol RSTP 018
Vol XPOFS1 105
Vol XPOFS2 063
Vol YKNOFS1D 086
Vol YKNOFS3 096
Vol YKNOFS4 143
Vol YKNNOFSA 128

I put rstp at 1. It gets darker by a tiny bit. I then lowered S1, S2 and S4 by 15 but it wasn't really that much darker from stock. So i went 10 more. It got much darker then. If i had to guess i would say maby it's at 500m level of 0.0005. I doubt it's 0.0001 like D-Nice is able to get some 151's. To me the black level change is not that dramatic since i don't have raised mll like others get. I put everything back at stock for future use if the black level does get worse and red tint appears.

Oh yeah, i lowered SAD by 25 but that's just a quicker way to adjust S1,S3, S4. Same change in black level.

Should I go lower? At what point do artifacts start showing up? I didn't see any 25 below stock either from S1, S3, S4, or SAD.

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Last edited by saprano; 08-08-2015 at 08:50 AM.
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post #2863 of 2878 Old 08-08-2015, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
I decided to try and lower voltages on my 151 to see how dark it can go. My stock settings are

Vol SUS 128
Vol offset 068
Vol RSTP 018
Vol XPOFS1 105
Vol XPOFS2 063
Vol YKNOFS1D 086
Vol YKNOFS3 096
Vol YKNOFS4 143
Vol YKNNOFSA 128

I put rstp at 1. It gets darker by a tiny bit. I then lowered S1, S2 and S4 by 15 but it wasn't really that much darker from stock. So i went 10 more. It got much darker then. If i had to guess i would say maby it's at 500m level of 0.0005. I doubt it's 0.0001 like D-Nice is able to get some 151's. To me the black level change is not that dramatic since i don't have raised mll like others get. I put everything back at stock for future use if the black level does get worse and red tint appears.

Oh yeah, i lowered SAD by 25 but that's just a quicker way to adjust S1,S3, S4. Same change in black level.

Should I go lower? At what point do artifacts start showing up? I didn't see any 25 below stock either from S1, S3, S4, or SAD.
Get real close to the screen , after the screen is black for a few seconds you will see magenta pixels as it comes out of black (moving images ) , that part of the screen must be black for a few seconds for the pixel to lose its static charge , I would say every screen is a little different , some owners have had magenta trails show up as the panel ages , It would seem the built in aging (voltage ) adjustments are off in some way , a very easy fix if you know what to adjust .

I have adjusted my 151 all over the place , very low , very high , If you see no artifacts you should be ok , I see no reason to change any settings other than RSTP and S1 S3 S4 or (SAD)
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post #2864 of 2878 Old 08-09-2015, 07:43 AM
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If i have to go up close to the screen to see artifacts, it's a non issue.

Which i did when i was watching regular content. Didn't notice anything. Definitely didn't see any problems from seating distance. But whatever, voltages are back at stock anyway.

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post #2865 of 2878 Old 08-09-2015, 08:48 AM
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If i have to go up close to the screen to see artifacts, it's a non issue.
That is not true , D-Nice is the one who showed me this , magenta misfires from dark to light scenes can be really bad , seen from seating position or that can be slight and only seen up close , voltages must be adjusted so there are NO Misfires , magenta misfires are progressive with voltage adjustments/misadjustments .
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post #2866 of 2878 Old 08-09-2015, 10:07 AM
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Well i didn't see any so. Probably had to watch more content. But from what i did watch it seemed fine.

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post #2867 of 2878 Old 08-09-2015, 01:36 PM
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That is not true , D-Nice is the one who showed me this , magenta misfires from dark to light scenes can be really bad , seen from seating position or that can be slight and only seen up close , voltages must be adjusted so there are NO Misfires , magenta misfires are progressive with voltage adjustments/misadjustments .
This is why I always play a black field during testing with internal patterns. The go to patterns are combi mask 10 (moving grid) and combi mask 9 i believe (fade from black to white).

The magenta misfires are very similar to black rain on the 50 inch models - essentially black lagging pixels. Another good test is a 5 percent field. You may see some magenta splotches. Then put up some sort of overlay over the 5 percent window and remove it. You may see a magenta colored imprint of the overlay.
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post #2868 of 2878 Old 08-09-2015, 06:05 PM
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Magenta sparkles or colored noise on the trailing edge of moving objects would probably imply an address failure in the green subs, that could be caused by a drop in voltage or it might be a symptom of an aging panel, either way you really want to fix that as green is the most important color out of the three primaries.

If you want to check for address failures you don't need a moving image, just switch from a black or idling screen to a gradient and look for noise in the darker areas as you switch between the two (if noise is present it is occurring at all levels and will stealthily reduce the resolution of the affected color even if it is not noticeable at your viewing distance)

I had success with these gradients because you can check the top and bottom of the panel simultaneously (which might be addressed separately depending on your plasma)




If you have diagnosed address failure then you would start with the address voltage alone or in combination with scan voltage, I can't tell you which values they are for individual models but that is where you would start adjusting.

 
PDPs Panasonic 50PF30, 42PF30, 50PH9, 50PHD8 | CRTs Sony Trinitron 21", Philips 36PW9607
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post #2869 of 2878 Old 08-10-2015, 02:35 AM
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Sorry I meant leading edge and also I had my Panasonic thinking hat on, you guys are saying that the red sparkles remains after switching to a black screen which makes more sense as the Pioneer driving method is setup > selective erase > sustain > selective erase > sustain > selective erase....(repeat for each sub-field). In reality the the panel almost never stops sustaining which is how Pioneer achieved such great efficiency and dark to light contrast without incurring an considerable addressing overhead.


Source: http://www.google.com/patents/EP1271463A2
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the selective erasure discharge is generated only in the addressing stage in one of the subfields SF1 - SF8, as indicated by a black circle. In this event, it is only the simultaneous reset stage in the first subfield SF1 that can form a wall charge in a discharge cell and make this discharge cell transition from the "unlit discharge cell state" to the "lit discharge cell state." Therefore, the discharge cell maintains the "lit discharge cell state" until the selective erasure discharge is generated ...continued... the scanning pulse and pixel data pulse applied in the addressing stage in each sub-field have a narrower pulse width as they are applied at an earlier time

So for dark area noise it might only be a single value which controls the probability of erasure?

 
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post #2870 of 2878 Old 08-18-2015, 12:13 AM
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Hi guys, I noticed that I had some severe red color bleed coming through and upon closer inspection found that all 3 of the fans had stopped working. I immediately turned it off and have removed it from the bedroom to the spare room. I haven't had time to do much about it but lately I've been really wanting to get it looked at and back in action. I've just turned it back on and tried it's 'pixel wipe' and all is white so doesn't appear to be any permanent damage.

Do you think it could have been from overheating? It's gonna cost me around $200 to get it looked at which I would be happy to pay for fix the fans and have it working again. Just wanted to get your thoughts. I've used a can of compressed air to clean the fans but still aren't working. Not quite sure what's involved in getting them to work?
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post #2871 of 2878 Old 08-18-2015, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post
Hi guys, I noticed that I had some severe red color bleed coming through and upon closer inspection found that all 3 of the fans had stopped working. I immediately turned it off and have removed it from the bedroom to the spare room. I haven't had time to do much about it but lately I've been really wanting to get it looked at and back in action. I've just turned it back on and tried it's 'pixel wipe' and all is white so doesn't appear to be any permanent damage.

Do you think it could have been from overheating? It's gonna cost me around $200 to get it looked at which I would be happy to pay for fix the fans and have it working again. Just wanted to get your thoughts. I've used a can of compressed air to clean the fans but still aren't working. Not quite sure what's involved in getting them to work?
The fans never turn on on these things. I'd be worried if they DID turn on.
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post #2872 of 2878 Old 08-18-2015, 04:11 PM
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The fans never turn on on these things. I'd be worried if they DID turn on.
Oh really? Hmm..I had never even looked to be honest and just assumed the issues were heat related when I noticed the fans weren't on. That's kind of good to hear! It's probably more the tinkering I did a while back to reduce the red tint. Everything was great however obviously something must have changed to cause the issue. Guess I'll start playing with it again!

Cheers!
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post #2873 of 2878 Old 08-21-2015, 01:03 PM
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Hey guys I now it's been a little since I last posted but I have recorded some great data and found out what a few key voltages do. I took the plunge and unmounted my KRP-600M for some voltage and other key readings. I'm an engineer but not a Pioneer engineer by far LOL!!!! This post mainly pertains to people who have already went through the reset process but there is still some great info for everyone. First, VOL SUS needs to stay at 128 no more...no less. I had over 7,000 hours before my reset and over 3,000 currently. My voltage still reads steady at 213.5V which is within spec. Second, VOL RST P needs to stay at the factory value due to this being the main reference reset value specifically for your panel. Third, VOL OFFSET, VOL XPOFS1, and VOL XPOFS2 need to stay at factory value do to they are the reference values for your panels X and Y boards. Fourth, VOL YNOFSA D needs to stay at factory value, to only adjust VOL YNOFS1 D, VOL YNOFS3 D, and VOL YNOFS4 D independently. After numerous hours, days, and nights this is what I found. VOL YNOFS1 D controls the rest pulse voltage for cold start ups and long sustained unstimulated pixels(Example black bars on a 2.35:1 movie). You can adjust this voltage and have no baring on the other Y voltages. My factory value was 086 and is now 113. A way to test for adjusting this voltage is to put in a 2.35:1 movie for about an hour then switch inputs to a 16:9 image to check for artifacts where the black bars were. If the voltage is set too high it will sparkle white, if set too low it will misfire, and sparkle purple. This may take a while but I was able to adjust to perfection. VOL YNOFS3 D and VOL YNOFS4 D need to be adjusted but need to be adjusted together so they have the same distance in value set from the factory(Example my factory values were VOL YNOFS3 D 096 and VOL YNOFS4 D 143...they are now set at VOL YNOFS3 D 116 and VOL YNOFS4 D 163...higher values but still the same distance between them...VERY IMPORTANT!!). The purpose for these two voltages are reset pulses for actively switching pixels from dark/black to light/white. Once all this is adjusted your panel should perform flawlessly and still no red tint. I still have a slight glow on all black or low APL scenes but more of a really dark grey than red!! Hope this helps, good luck, and sorry for the long post.
I have been reading this thread because I performed reset on my Kuro (5090H). I think that you did the most serious job of finding more about voltages and what they do. I also have to mention d-nice and his view of the whole reseting thing. It looks to me that he has some knowlege about the red tint problem and the way of fixing it. Also he got some software and information from the pioneer about tweaking Kuro. Having all that he is a good position to make same money. What I don't understand is the way he is talking to all of the guys who are trying to make the best of what they got. Sounds like they are all idiots and don't know what are they doing but if they want he will be happy to fix the problem for a certain fee. Feels wrong...
Anyway, my problem... In the table with voltages and calculation formulas there are some things I don't understand. If the ajustable range for VKNOFS4 is 151-193 and the factory value is 149 does that mean that the factory setting is wrong? Is this adjustable range for the values in the service menu or not? If I calculate voltage using formula the factory voltage is 230V. How do I know is this voltage correct? Since you measured the real voltages maybe you could help me. Thanks.
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post #2874 of 2878 Old 08-22-2015, 09:41 AM
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So with a bit over 2200 hours since my last reset I decided to futz around with voltages again. There was no real reason. Red tint hasn't returned. I do feel like there was a slight elevation of black levels but that might be in my head - I don't have equipment to test.

I first put all the voltages back to default as I wrote them down when I first went into the service menu. Of course red tint returned but not as bad as it was when I first discovered it. I've read this thread more times than I care to mention and I can't decide what I should try so I played around with voltages and I've kept defaults for all but rstp which is back to 1 and sad to 108 from 128. The only complaint is black rain. I checked all the patterns and I don't see any misfires etc. I don't know if I'm lucky or not seeing something I'm supposed to.

Anyway I think my next step is to keep adjusting sad up until I can find a happy place for it.

Someday I hope OLED will put my black level obsession to rest.

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post #2875 of 2878 Old 08-27-2015, 10:16 AM
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Help .... green misfires on black

Hello everyone.
Please help me!
I've got green misfires on black after reset of Pioneer LX5090H.
My voltage settings after reset are:
VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 140
VOL RST P: 001 (lower from 019 to remove glow on black )
VOL XPOFS1: 085
VOL XPOFS2: 047
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 163  (raised up from 143 after reset to remove magenta misfires)
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 148  (raised up from 128 after reset to remove magenta misfires)
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 192  (raised up from 172 after reset to remove magenta misfires)
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128
Please help me to remove the green misfires.
Thanks.
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post #2876 of 2878 Old 08-27-2015, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereonez View Post
Hello everyone.
Please help me!
I've got green misfires on black after reset of Pioneer LX5090H.
My voltage settings after reset are:
VOL SUS: 128
VOL OFFSET: 140
VOL RST P: 001 (lower from 019 to remove glow on black )
VOL XPOFS1: 085
VOL XPOFS2: 047
VOL YKNOFS1 D: 163  (raised up from 143 after reset to remove magenta misfires)
VOL YKNOFS3 D: 148  (raised up from 128 after reset to remove magenta misfires)
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 192  (raised up from 172 after reset to remove magenta misfires)
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128
Please help me to remove the green misfires.
Thanks.
Please provide the output of the qpi and qpw command. I'm not too familiar with the European models, but is this a 50 or 60 inch model?
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post #2877 of 2878 Old Yesterday, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Please provide the output of the qpi and qpw command. I'm not too familiar with the European models, but is this a 50 or 60 inch model?
that would be a 50

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post #2878 of 2878 Old Today, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Please provide the output of the qpi and qpw command. I'm not too familiar with the European models, but is this a 50 or 60 inch model?
Hi, makaveddie81
Thanks for your response.
This is 50 inch model.
Sorry, but i dont understand what does it means: "qpi and qpw command"?
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