Official Pioneer Kuro Reddish Tint Problem Thread - Page 97 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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View Poll Results: Does your Kuro have a reddish tint to the blacks?
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - NO 17 14.17%
5020FD/6020FD - NO 5 4.17%
111FD/151FD - NO 18 15.00%
101FD/141FD - NO 11 9.17%
Other/Older Model (please post) - NO 8 6.67%
KRP-500M/KRP-600M - YES 27 22.50%
5020FD/6020FD - YES 14 11.67%
111FD/151FD - YES 11 9.17%
101FD/141FD - YES 7 5.83%
Other/Older Model (please post) - YES 5 4.17%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

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post #2881 of 2917 Old 12-10-2015, 11:37 PM
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My preference is to lower SAD rather than RSTP. My probem with lowering RSTP is that it makes the picture dull/ reduces the light output I think. As Saprano says the difference is not that great in terms of a big reduction in light output near black - although there is a difference. Lowering the three SAD parameters from 86, 96 and 143 to 74, 84, and 131 has a more pronounced affect on black levels and importantly doesn't take the pop/ dynamics out of the picture so much - although it still does have some effect on dynamic performance IMO.

Last edited by OShag; 12-10-2015 at 11:41 PM.
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post #2882 of 2917 Old 12-24-2015, 07:40 PM
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Just picked up a 5020 for $250. I didn't test it out before committing. When the screen is all black, there seems to be a little burgandy/reddish color to it. Any remedies ?
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post #2883 of 2917 Old 12-26-2015, 02:15 PM
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The middle of the screen is black, small reddish color around the bottom & very little reddish color on top.
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post #2884 of 2917 Old 12-29-2015, 09:31 PM
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Not sure why I bothered looking but noticed some moderate red tint on my 8 year old 151. Haven't checked hours but I'd guess it's below average for most panels this old as not my primary tv. Gotta say it really doesn't bother me. I cannot see it unless I'm in a completely dark room with a black screen. With usual lighting black bars still appear to blend in with bezel. Having said that I assume this will continue to get worse? Also, I read that 151 are more difficult to adjust with voltage tweeks to remedy? I frankly doubt I would bother as I'd sell it at the point it really bothered me but just wondering what the learned members here thought. Not that it matters but my panel was calibrated by Dnice.
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post #2885 of 2917 Old 12-30-2015, 01:29 AM
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My advice would be to leave it how it is, too much a pita to deal with on these sets.
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post #2886 of 2917 Old 12-30-2015, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnarbi View Post
My advice would be to leave it how it is, too much a pita to deal with on these sets.
inarbi have you tweaked your 500a?

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post #2887 of 2917 Old 12-31-2015, 05:04 AM
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My 141fd is back from the dead! It's a long story (worth a read IMO as it contains a few scares and learning experiences).

After slapping on the 2nd replacement Y board on my broken 141fd, the set would shut down after approximately 30 seconds. The power down log in Kuro Kapture shows 7 Y-SUS as the last entry (with the 7 matching the number of times the LED flashes upon shut down). I removed the Y board from my new 141fd and slapped it on the broken 141fd and the behavior persisted. At this point, I was completely frustrated, as I had practically proved that the Y board was not issue with my broken set and would have to blindly replace parts on it to see if I stumbled upon a fix. Discouraged, I reinstalled the good board back on my new 141fd and it surprisingly behaved just like my broken 141fd! No picture on the screen and the set shut down after 30 seconds. At this point, I was losing my mind. I decided to install the replacement board on my new 141fd as a last hurrah. To my surprise, it worked! What did I do different, you ask? Well, I actually screwed the board on! I've worked on computers for years and I would never, ever screw on any boards until I confirmed them to be working. Well, the screw holes on the Y board has metal trim, which I assume grounds it with the chassis. Feeling hopeful, I installed the board on my broken 141fd (including screws) and the set powered on as normal! So I now have two working 141fd's. Let this be a lesson to all, in order for these boards to work, you must screw them on!

With that out of the way, I decided to use my multimeter to get readings for all voltages on both sets, performed the safe reset method, and get post reset readings of the voltages, since it seems like no one has ever tried this. I then undid the reset and got readings again to confirm that the reset was reverted. All measurements were performed while displaying a 100% IRE field, as getting readings during content netted inconsistent VH readings. Below are the results from both sets. The ONLY voltages that change after resetting are RSTP and XPOFS1. Keep in mind that RSTP was set to 1 in the service menu on both sets and all other voltages were set to default.

New 141fd (14K hours) (first value is pre reset, second value is post reset)
SUS 198, 198
VH 136, 136
RSTP 124, 76
Got inconsistent readings on S1, S3 and S4, but they were all around the high 190 range both pre and post reset
XPOFS1 78, 66
XPOFS2 89, 89

Broken 141fd (10K hours)
SUS 198, 198
V ADJ 71, 71
RSTP 111, 67
Got inconsistent readings on S1, S3 and S4, but they were all around the high 190 range both pre and post reset
XPOFS1 70, 65
XPOFS2 87, 87

While the panels were in the reset state, I adjusted RSTP and XPOFS1 in the service menu so the readings would equal their pre reset value. The panels were still littered with magenta lag and white/green sparkles near black. When I test reset on my 60 inch sets, I typically raise RSTP until combi mask 10 is clear of magenta lag. Well, using the pattern as a guide gave me a way higher RSTP voltage reading compared to pre reset. Raising RSTP so it would match its pre reset reading would net magenta lag on combi mask 10. I'm sure there are other voltages that I may have missed that may be part of the equation for reset recovery, but, as I have suspected all along, there is something else going on after reset.

After the reset experiments, I undid the reset and proceeded to adjust the VH and RSTP pots to try to tweak out the red tint. The service manual states that VH should be 140, so I adjusted the VH pot accordingly on both sets. Then I set the RSTP pot so it would net the lowest reading on both panels. The pot was set about 5 volts too high on both sets. I threw up a 5% window and the red tint was gone on the broken 141fd (red tint was extremely minor on this set) but still there on the new 141fd (perhaps some improvement).

I know some are having nice results with pot adjustment, but to me, it's a waste of time and too risky and dangerous. Not only did my original 141fd go out of commission after the Y board sparked while I attempted to adjust the VH pot (my fault since I did not use an anti ESD wrist strap), but during this session (where I did use an anti ESD wrist strap and anti ESD screwdrivers) I was electrocuted while trying to adjust the RSTP pot. My body shook for a second or two and I saw a white flash. It was a scary experience and, although I continued to experiment, I don't plan on doing this ever again.

For my last test, I safe reset both sets again and attempted to recover them with a variety of techniques (raising RSTP, raising SAD, raising both SAD and RSTP, etc.) and whenever I was able to get rid of the red tint, I could never get rid of the magenta lag or the white/green sparkles near black or the black blotch in the middle of the screen that Inarbi has seen in his testing. SAD and RSTP have the biggest effect on the magenta lag, and when these are raised to rid the magenta, the red tint makes its glorious return.

All this tells me that the red tint is not voltage related at all. These 60 inch sets cannot handle the insanely low RSTP caused by reset that masks the red tint. If you can't get rid of the red tint on a 60 inch set by tweaking RSTP and SAD, then don't even bother reset or pot adjustment, as you will get the same or even worse results. The beauty of the 50 inch sets (specifically the 5020 and 111fd is that they can handle the insanely low RSTP value caused by reset without the nasty side effects seen on the 60 inch sets. As Inarbi said, only the 50 inch sets are worth purchasing at this point.

I know this post is all over the place, but I'm trying to cram everything while it's still fresh in my mind.
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post #2888 of 2917 Old 12-31-2015, 11:45 PM
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Man I wonder how my 5020fd is going to look after I gets calibrated. Not now, but I will get around to it.

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post #2889 of 2917 Old 01-01-2016, 09:40 AM
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Hi all,

Bit of a long one but really hope you can advise.

I purchased the Kuro LX5090 (UK Model) roughly 2 months ago, i was lucky to find one within 10 miles that was only £400.

I had never owned a Kuro before, previous TV was a Panasonic Plasma UT50b, not bad but had 50hz bug and was only a 42inch,

I was excited to see the Kuro in the flesh and was shown a quick demo with the lights dimmed. I checked for screen burn and any dead pixels and all seemed ok, i wasn't aware of the red tint at this stage.

After getting it home i set it up but it took me a few days before i could finally test out the picture properly. I put 'Gravity' on to test blacks and noticed the red tint straight away and thought what the hell is that! I panicked and then found this forum and thought oh no!

At first i thought i could get over it, but its all i was looking for whilst watching TV.

Since then it has pretty much taken over my life!

First i got hold of cables and controlcal to access the service, my RSTP was already at 001. TV had 8k hours on it.

I tried lowering FSA D, i even took it down to 80 but had serious magenta lag and the red tint was still there at top and bottom of screen.

Again i tried to settle for it but just felt as though the blacks were actually quite poor still.

Out of frustration one night i decided to follow the reset guide, something i now regret after reading this forum start to finish, knowing there was a safer way to do it.

Initially i was jumping with joy after seeing the black level, i could hardly see the TV was on and thought wow its fixed, that easy.

After watching some content it soon become obvious it wasn't fixed, magenta lag, sparkles near black and lots of green pixels that took a few seconds to clear.

So the real games started here, i have tried everything i know of. The picture now looks good, much much better than pre-reset overall but there is one thing really bugging me.

I have the smallest bit of black lag which i can get over but its the Sparkles near black on poorly compressed channels. Its noticeable on Sky Movies the most at the top right.

To remove the misfiring sparkles near black i can lower S1 to below 100 but then dark scenes look awful, shadows become red and magenta lag is terrible.

Also i have had to change the distance between S1,3 and 4, my understanding is that this should be adjusted together? I had adjusted FSAD initially but there were always Artifacts of some kind. Always had some green lagging pixels or there was green noise in shadows, plus the red tint started coming back. Maybe S3 is the red tint voltage?

I wish now i had just adjusted s1,3 and 4 separately before resetting but was worried this would cause serious damage at the time, after the reset i have had no choice.

I have messed with Vol Sus also, higher makes the sparkles even worse!

Its the sparkles near black i cannot seem to get rid of, i really hope somebody can fix this for me?

Also on an all black screen, after a few seconds you can see the black level isn't even, it looks dirty and is darker at the top. Panel ware or under driven?

Please see my before and after settings below

Pre-Reset (Lots of red tint covering 90% of screen)

Vol Sus 128

Vol offset 140

Vol rst P: 001

Vol Xpofs1: 085

Vol Xpofs2: 047

Vol YKNOFS1 D : 143

VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 128

VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172

VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

Post Rest: (Almost perfect picture but green/white sparkles near black)

Vol Sus 128

Vol offset 140

Vol rst P: 001

Vol Xpofs1: 085

Vol Xpofs2: 047

Vol YKNOFS1 D : 163 (This was just enough to clear magenta Trails)

VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 143 (Any higher and shadows look a bit green, noisy and the red tint returns)

VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172 (Any higher and it doesn't seem to go well with S3 causing strange green/red noise almost like its a paintbrush)

VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

Without forums like this i would have purchased a TV that IMO would have been unwatchable, so thank you. It may not be perfect and i wish i had been more patient before the reset but its still worth £400. If i could just solve the final piece of this stressful puzzle then i'd be over the moon and will stop window shopping for OLEDS.

Thanks for reading.

Dan
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post #2890 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 11:40 AM
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makaveddie81, you seem to be the man in terms of helping get rid of the red tint, so hoping you can help me out!

I just bought a 111fd yesterday and it's got really bad red tint that's totally visible on black screens as well as starts to bleed itself into dark pictures. This TV is primarily viewed without lights on, so it's quite an annoyance atm...

Your Kuro Control program works with this model according to the page right? I read that you can use a harmony remote to access the menu too...

From reading most of this forum since last night, is it generally these settings that should be played with to try and get rid of the tint?
Vol rst P
Vol YKNOFS1 D
VOL: YKNOFS3 D
VOL YKNOFS4 D

I really love this tv (I've got a 141 downstairs!), so I'm hoping I can save it. Help is uber appreciated!!
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post #2891 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblakeney View Post
makaveddie81, you seem to be the man in terms of helping get rid of the red tint, so hoping you can help me out!

I just bought a 111fd yesterday and it's got really bad red tint that's totally visible on black screens as well as starts to bleed itself into dark pictures. This TV is primarily viewed without lights on, so it's quite an annoyance atm...

Your Kuro Control program works with this model according to the page right? I read that you can use a harmony remote to access the menu too...

From reading most of this forum since last night, is it generally these settings that should be played with to try and get rid of the tint?
Vol rst P
Vol YKNOFS1 D
VOL: YKNOFS3 D
VOL YKNOFS4 D

I really love this tv (I've got a 141 downstairs!), so I'm hoping I can save it. Help is uber appreciated!!
If you end up needing cables to hook to laptop for service menu let me know. Have mine here somewhere & since
Im out of the Kuro game dont need anymore. You are welcome to them...
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post #2892 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by CherokeeMan View Post
If you end up needing cables to hook to laptop for service menu let me know. Have mine here somewhere & since
Im out of the Kuro game dont need anymore. You are welcome to them...
thanks!!
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post #2893 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblakeney View Post
makaveddie81, you seem to be the man in terms of helping get rid of the red tint, so hoping you can help me out!

I just bought a 111fd yesterday and it's got really bad red tint that's totally visible on black screens as well as starts to bleed itself into dark pictures. This TV is primarily viewed without lights on, so it's quite an annoyance atm...

Your Kuro Control program works with this model according to the page right? I read that you can use a harmony remote to access the menu too...

From reading most of this forum since last night, is it generally these settings that should be played with to try and get rid of the tint?
Vol rst P
Vol YKNOFS1 D
VOL: YKNOFS3 D
VOL YKNOFS4 D

I really love this tv (I've got a 141 downstairs!), so I'm hoping I can save it. Help is uber appreciated!!
Yes my program works on all 9 and 9.5 generation Kuros (which includes the 111fd).

Before you make any adjustments, make sure to get your current values so you can revert if need be. This is done via the qaj command.

Then, you would issue the below commands:

fay (to enable factory mode)
vrp001 (to lower rstp to 1)
vyf 108 (to lower yknofsad to 108, this one adjusts yknofs1,3 and 4 simultaneously)
fan (to disable factory mode)

You can try to go lower on yknofsad, but the service manual states 98 as the minimum.

If this doesn't work, then reset may be in the cards, though that is a completely different animal and should be your last resort.
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post #2894 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
Yes my program works on all 9 and 9.5 generation Kuros (which includes the 111fd).

Before you make any adjustments, make sure to get your current values so you can revert if need be. This is done via the qaj command.

Then, you would issue the below commands:

fay (to enable factory mode)
vrp001 (to lower rstp to 1)
vyf 108 (to lower yknofsad to 108, this one adjusts yknofs1,3 and 4 simultaneously)
fan (to disable factory mode)

You can try to go lower on yknofsad, but the service manual states 98 as the minimum.

If this doesn't work, then reset may be in the cards, though that is a completely different animal and should be your last resort.
So those commands and just a serial cable + laptop? If it clears it up great! Not sure it's worth a full reset, which I've read can be a chore to get back to a stable state for possible little gain.

Does the red come back over time?
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post #2895 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by jblakeney View Post
So those commands and just a serial cable + laptop? If it clears it up great! Not sure it's worth a full reset, which I've read can be a chore to get back to a stable state for possible little gain.

Does the red come back over time?
You need the USB to serial adapter and the female to female cable in post #1 of the Kuro Command thread.

Some report the tint coming back over time. Hasn't been the case on my sets yet.
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post #2896 of 2917 Old 01-06-2016, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
You need the USB to serial adapter and the female to female cable in post #1 of the Kuro Command thread.

Some report the tint coming back over time. Hasn't been the case on my sets yet.
I may have the rs232 cable lying around somewhere and an old laptop with a com port. Once upon a time I enabled the isf modes on my 141.

Is it commonly thought that the red hue is due to higher than needed voltages to the panel gases? Its unclear to me what these settings are that were dialing down.
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Originally Posted by jblakeney View Post
I may have the rs232 cable lying around somewhere and an old laptop with a com port. Once upon a time I enabled the isf modes on my 141.

Is it commonly thought that the red hue is due to higher than needed voltages to the panel gases? Its unclear to me what these settings are that were dialing down.
That was the initial thought. But after my extensive testing, I think voltages have nothing to do with it.
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post #2898 of 2917 Old 01-07-2016, 08:58 AM
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That was the initial thought. But after my extensive testing, I think voltages have nothing to do with it.
It's kind of as if the red part of the pixel is not able to fully turn to black. But I don't understand what we are changing that "masks" this.

I did note that on an input without signal, after ~15 seconds the screen goes dark, but I imagine that's just the power being taken off the panel since there is no signal for a period of time.

If not voltages, what do you believe it to be that causes the red tint?
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Originally Posted by CherokeeMan View Post
If you end up needing cables to hook to laptop for service menu let me know. Have mine here somewhere & since
Im out of the Kuro game dont need anymore. You are welcome to them...
If you're not needing those cables anymore, sounds like I will be going into the service menu on this thing in hopes of getting rid of this red! PM me if you don't need em anymore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblakeney View Post
It's kind of as if the red part of the pixel is not able to fully turn to black. But I don't understand what we are changing that "masks" this.

I did note that on an input without signal, after ~15 seconds the screen goes dark, but I imagine that's just the power being taken off the panel since there is no signal for a period of time.

If not voltages, what do you believe it to be that causes the red tint?
We are lowering voltages, which causes a black level reduction which in turns hides the red tint.

The screen shutting off after 15 seconds of inactivity is normal behavior.
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post #2901 of 2917 Old 01-07-2016, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post
We are lowering voltages, which causes a black level reduction which in turns hides the red tint.

The screen shutting off after 15 seconds of inactivity is normal behavior.
That's what I figured. Excited to see if I can revive the TVs blacks to a decent level with this.
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If you're not needing those cables anymore, sounds like I will be going into the service menu on this thing in hopes of getting rid of this red! PM me if you don't need em anymore
PM sent, consider them yours!
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post #2903 of 2917 Old 01-12-2016, 09:27 PM
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I managed to get Logitech to program the SM command onto my harmony remote and snagged the current hours and readings. Oddly, my readings are identical to seones from a page back in this forum. Weird.

18k hrs
Vol Sus 128
Vol offset 140
Vol rst P: 021
Vol Xpofs1: 085
Vol Xpofs2: 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D : 143
VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

I'll start with dialing back vol rst P and see where I'm at! Thx for all the info!
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post #2904 of 2917 Old 01-12-2016, 09:30 PM
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I managed to get Logitech to program the SM command onto my harmony remote and snagged the current hours and readings. Oddly, my readings are identical to seones from a page back in this forum. Weird.

18k hrs
Vol Sus 128
Vol offset 140
Vol rst P: 021
Vol Xpofs1: 085
Vol Xpofs2: 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D : 143
VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

If I understand correctly, I should dial vrst P to 001 then got enter, exit the menu and power down? Then test on a blank input and check for red?
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post #2905 of 2917 Old 01-13-2016, 01:46 AM
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I managed to get Logitech to program the SM command onto my harmony remote and snagged the current hours and readings. Oddly, my readings are identical to seones from a page back in this forum. Weird.

18k hrs
Vol Sus 128
Vol offset 140
Vol rst P: 021
Vol Xpofs1: 085
Vol Xpofs2: 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D : 143
VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

If I understand correctly, I should dial vrst P to 001 then got enter, exit the menu and power down? Then test on a blank input and check for red?
Two things, you don't need to power down after the change and you must check on an actual feed of a black field (not a blank input) or a 5%IRE window pattern.
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Two things, you don't need to power down after the change and you must check on an actual feed of a black field (not a blank input) or a 5%IRE window pattern.
Per Tubbys guide and becuase I'd like to see the current voltages, I think I'll try dialing down S1, S3, S4 voltages manually and all by the same amount. I don't have a service manual nor table of factory ranges for the 111fd.

What is a good amount to dial these back? Should I go in 10 step increments to start? I like deep blacks, but most important to me is ridding this tint. Its the worst.

Thanks in advance for the aid! This forum is great.
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Per Tubbys guide and becuase I'd like to see the current voltages, I think I'll try dialing down S1, S3, S4 voltages manually and all by the same amount. I don't have a service manual nor table of factory ranges for the 111fd.

What is a good amount to dial these back? Should I go in 10 step increments to start? I like deep blacks, but most important to me is ridding this tint. Its the worst.

Thanks in advance for the aid! This forum is great.
I got the service manual off elekrotanya for the 111fd, but it doesn't contain factory recommended values/ranges. It's supposed to be equivalent to the 5020, does anyone have that table? Would be good to have before going buck wild on the settings.
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I got the service manual off elekrotanya for the 111fd, but it doesn't contain factory recommended values/ranges. It's supposed to be equivalent to the 5020, does anyone have that table? Would be good to have before going buck wild on the settings.
Your current values are at default:

Vol Sus 128
Vol offset 140
Vol rst P: 021
Vol Xpofs1: 085
Vol Xpofs2: 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D : 143
VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

First drop rstp to 1.

If you'd like to drop SAD, the service manual for the 5020 states that the lowest you can go is 108.
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Your current values are at default:

Vol Sus 128
Vol offset 140
Vol rst P: 021
Vol Xpofs1: 085
Vol Xpofs2: 047
Vol YKNOFS1 D : 143
VOL: YKNOFS3 D: 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D: 172
VOL YKNOFSA D: 128

First drop rstp to 1.

If you'd like to drop SAD, the service manual for the 5020 states that the lowest you can go is 108.
Going home now to try this. Where'd you get your reference voltages btw? They aren't in any document I checked...
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Going home now to try this. Where'd you get your reference voltages btw? They aren't in any document I checked...
Happy to say that the red tint is 100% gone!

Bringing vol rstp down to 0 helped remove the vleed that went towards the center of the screen but not the top and bottom edges. It was the worst there after all.

Bringing SAD down to 108 took it down a whole bunch more. Butnin order to completely eliminate it I have to take SAD down to the lower 90s.

I haven't had enough time to test the impact of this yet. I did read that the 50 inchers are more resilient to lower settings than the larger brothers.

Only other thing I noticed is that when I turn off the TV, I can see some light IR if there was a bright static image. I have to be stupidly close to the screen to see it. Could have been there all along and I just didn't notice.

Eddie or anyone else still reading this thread, what's your opinion of goimg below recommended SAD to get rid of the tint? Has anyone seen any catastrophic issues? Would rather lower just these instead of a full reset if it can be avoided.

I don't have oled blacks right now, bit I've got untinted blacks which is all I was after anyways!
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