LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 1400 Old 12-07-2011, 12:40 PM
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Good for you walt73. Amazing picture, yes? It's been over 3 weeks since I did my 50PK550 and I am still floored by the picture. Makes me want to watch my blu-ray collection all over again!
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post #362 of 1400 Old 12-07-2011, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walt73 View Post

I did the tweak on my 50PK550 (North American model, Mar 2010 build) this morning with stunning results (so far).

Congrats Walt and thanks for sharing your procedures.
Keeping a few mixfires I found is a reasonable compromise, I did the same with my PG25.
Still looking forward to do my PX950.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #363 of 1400 Old 12-08-2011, 04:24 AM
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Now I know why my whites was starting to look beige it wasn't the VZB POT,It was that the more I was trying to lower the black levels with the POTS,The more it was messing up the 6500k warn settings so that's why I was getting that strange beige color,,I fix the beige color, setting up the color temperature to a cooler temperature between warn and cool,,,now my POT set up is exactly as the german site.

LG60PK550...

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post #364 of 1400 Old 12-08-2011, 05:38 AM
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Hey guys,

I am right now seriously thinking about ordering a 50PZ950. What kept me from doing this till now, were the reports of weak black levels. I am coming from an Pana 46PZ80, which has excellent blacks in my eyes.
From what I read here, using the pot tuning method, most of you guys get black levels that are on par with current Panasonic Models or even better? Is that right?
I got no problem with opening the case and playing around with the pots, but I just want to be sure, that the results will fit my needs, before I order a TV that I would send back a week later ...
Besides the black level issue, the PZ950 is my absolute favorite, got all the features I need and it has a brilliant design, especially compared to the crap that Panasonic builds nowadays from a design point of view.

thanks

boba
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post #365 of 1400 Old 12-08-2011, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boba23 View Post

Hey guys,

I am right now seriously thinking about ordering a 50PZ950. What kept me from doing this till now, were the reports of weak black levels. I am coming from an Pana 46PZ80, which has excellent blacks in my eyes.

thanks

boba

The stock PZ950 should out perform your 2009 46PZ80, tweaking will just widen the gap.
The current LG black levels are being compared to the best for 2011 and are really not all that bad, we just felt it could be better.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #366 of 1400 Old 12-08-2011, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

Now I know why my whites was starting to look beige it wasn't the VZB POT,It was that the more I was trying to lower the black levels with the POTS,The more it was messing up the 6500k warn settings so that's why I was getting that strange beige color,,I fix the beige color, setting up the color temperature to a cooler temperature between warn and cool,,,now my POT set up is exactly as the german site.

LG60PK550...

I knew it!

I left my VZB as is (even though only moves a hair maxed clockwise) cause I didn't notice any beige in whites. Have mine on Medium Temp.

Now have new config on Vid Settings...60PZ950.

Mostly watch Verizon HD and Hulu Plus on Xbox 360.

Flatpanels Color Calibrated Settings...
Red contrast 0
Green contrast -3
Blue contrast 2
Red brightness 4
Green brightness -14
Blue brightness 11

No Wizard...Expert 1
Contrast 95-98 (depending on room lighting-92 night)
Brightness 57
H/V Sharpness 56
Color 62
Tint 0

Expert Control
Dynamic Contrast-Low
Noise Reduc-Low
Super Res-On
Gamma-Med
Black Lev-Low
Film-on
Color Gamut-Wide

As you can tell, I like lots of POP! Always experimenting but happiest with this one thus far!
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post #367 of 1400 Old 12-08-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derod68 View Post

I knew it!

I left my VZB as is (even though only moves a hair maxed clockwise) cause I didn't notice any beige in whites. Have mine on Medium Temp.

Now have new config on Vid Settings...60PZ950.

Mostly watch Verizon HD and Hulu Plus on Xbox 360.

Flatpanels Color Calibrated Settings...
Red contrast 0
Green contrast -3
Blue contrast 2
Red brightness 4
Green brightness -14
Blue brightness 11

No Wizard...Expert 1
Contrast 95-98 (depending on room lighting-92 night)
Brightness 57
H/V Sharpness 56
Color 62
Tint 0

Expert Control
Dynamic Contrast-Low
Noise Reduc-Low
Super Res-On
Gamma-Med
Black Lev-Low
Film-on
Color Gamut-Wide

As you can tell, I like lots of POP! Always experimenting but happiest with this one thus far!

Without tweaking, Contrast in the 90's is way too high and would cause lots of green dithering dots. I'm gonna tweak again using vzb this time and give this a shot. thanks.
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post #368 of 1400 Old 12-08-2011, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derod68 View Post

Just a suggestion to all...

If someone is posting some feedback on a good or bad result of a pots tweak, please write the type/model of set. That would help us all in IMHO.


Excellent idea derod68,

I started quoting some of the forum members procedures in the first post for easy access.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #369 of 1400 Old 12-09-2011, 06:16 AM
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VZB does leave a quicker IR. Noticed this watching the news, silhouette of the news caster would leave a IR after a channel change which never happened before, video noise seems much better too on stock location. Only pot i'm using now is the Set_Up, all others are in their factory settings.
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post #370 of 1400 Old 12-09-2011, 06:53 AM
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Any by only using Set_Up, do you get a satisfying black level on you set?

boba
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post #371 of 1400 Old 12-09-2011, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boba23 View Post

Any by only using Set_Up, do you get a satisfying black level on you set?

boba

its better than before. VY and VS pots really didn't make any noticeable difference to me so I left them as is. Set down caused rare pixel misfires, I'm ocd about that stuff so I left that back to the original setting.

Think I've taken the back panel off least 20 times in the past few weeks. LOL.
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post #372 of 1400 Old 12-09-2011, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boba23 View Post

Any by only using Set_Up, do you get a satisfying black level on you set?

boba

Yep.
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post #373 of 1400 Old 12-09-2011, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boba23 View Post

Any by only using Set_Up, do you get a satisfying black level on you set?

boba

When I did my PG25 the Set-up had the most obvious increase in the black.
If you can imagine a gray-scale from 1-10, I would say I gained another step or two toward black.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #374 of 1400 Old 12-09-2011, 09:32 AM
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the downside of using this mod is that you're getting a bit of black crush. Uping the brightness to compensate I can see dancing green pixels anymore than 50 on the black bars.
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post #375 of 1400 Old 12-10-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

the downside of using this mod is that you're getting a bit of black crush. Uping the brightness to compensate I can see dancing green pixels anymore than 50 on the black bars.





well I think the lower the black level the more visible are the details in dark scenes,That's what I see on my PK550 . picture in dark scenes looks more realistic as is suppose to look.

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post #376 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *MaDJiK* View Post

Really? Panasonic have dancing dots too?
OK, thanks for your answer. You're right the green dots are not always disturbing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerSchwend View Post

Panasonic VIERA TC-P50ST30... On "Standard", there is a really horrible picture noise that I can't really capture with a camera. It's especially noticeable in grey areas. It doesn't happen in any of the other modes (cinema), even when I set the settings to be the same. I thought it might go away after burn in, but... nope.

I will likely call Panasonic (expecting that to be a nightmare?) but figured I would post up about it since I don't see any other reports.

Just so folks know it's not only LG that sometimes has obvious noise near black, and not a result from tweaking.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #377 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 12:23 PM
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for some reason, my picture looks better when Gamma is set to high. Normal? Maybe I am just being a dumbass and should just leave well enough alone
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post #378 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

for some reason, my picture looks better when Gamma is set to high. Normal? Maybe I am just being a dumbass and should just leave well enough alone

A few posters find the higher gamma works better, on my PX950 I find it crushes the shadow detail. There is a right and wrong way to do things but usually it comes down to personal preferences which do not necessarily see eye to eye with proper calibration.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #379 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 03:14 PM
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Awaiting my 60 PZ950 which is in route!

Couple of quick simple questions:

Which is the best calibration Disc/Method to use and when?

The initial Basic setup/adjustments?

Do's and Don't s in the initial break in period?

Thanks in Advance!

My Home Theater = Investment In My Entertainment!
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post #380 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post

Awaiting my 60 PZ950 which is in route!

Couple of quick simple questions:

Which is the best calibration Disc/Method to use and when?

The initial Basic setup/adjustments?

Do's and Don't s in the initial break in period?

Thanks in Advance!

I has great success with the avs709 files.

my routine with a new plasma has always been to keep contrast and brightness at 50 and run break in color slides for at least 200 hours before using the set. sure it means you have to wait another week before using the set, but i have never had an issue with burn in or even image retention. plus your calibrations after the break in period are likely to be more accurate. saves redoing it after a few months of regular use.

my pk550 is now about 15 months old and often gets extended gaming use. no image retention and now that I've had the. courage to pull the back panel and tweak the pots recently, it's like a whole new set!
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post #381 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harvro01 View Post

I has great success with the avs709 files.

my routine with a new plasma has always been to keep contrast and brightness at 50 and run break in color slides for at least 200 hours before using the set. sure it means you have to wait another week before using the set, but i have never had an issue with burn in or even image retention. plus your calibrations after the break in period are likely to be more accurate. saves redoing it after a few months of regular use.

my pk550 is now about 15 months old and often gets extended gaming use. no image retention and now that I've had the. courage to pull the back panel and tweak the pots recently, it's like a whole new set!



My Home Theater = Investment In My Entertainment!
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post #382 of 1400 Old 12-11-2011, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXSTYLE View Post



break in slides. a set of images of varying shades of the colors plus grays. I just stick mine on a USB stick and let it play them in a loop for 5 seconds each. a quick google search should yield many sets of images, some have the primaries, some have primaries and secondaries.
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post #383 of 1400 Old 12-12-2011, 08:58 AM
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I am about to attempt Harvro's pot settings. Should I leave my settings as is? I have expert 1 and 2 set (they are almost identical. Expert 1 was achieved using Wizard and Expert 2, DVE disc). Should I leave them or reset them to factory settings and then recalibrate after i am set with the pots?
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post #384 of 1400 Old 12-12-2011, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I am about to attempt Harvro's pot settings. Should I leave my settings as is? I have expert 1 and 2 set (they are almost identical. Expert 1 was achieved using Wizard and Expert 2, DVE disc). Should I leave them or reset them to factory settings and then recalibrate after i am set with the pots?

I did not change my settings at all to do the pot tweak. I did recheck them after and nothing changed, colors are still accurate. There has been some suggestion by others that an increase to brightness is required after lowering the MLL via pots, but for me, it was not needed. My brightness is set at 54 which on my set is definitely the sweet spot. Any increase introduces some noise in dark areas which was the same as prior to tweaking pots.

My feeling is that the grays in dark scenes are still there in the correct proportions after tweaking, but we may have been used to seeing them as brighter with the higher stock MLL. I believe that the secret is light control and that in a dark room, the picture is as it should be, and that pre-tweak, they were in fact more washed out than they should have been. just my $0.02. I don't think there is any black crush going on.

Everyones set is different, but for me the colors and brightness were accurate to start with and turning pots one way or the other did not change this. I guess the short answer to your question is no, no need to change any settings prior to turning pots.
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post #385 of 1400 Old 12-12-2011, 11:02 AM
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Thank Harv. Exactly the answer I was hoping for.
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post #386 of 1400 Old 12-13-2011, 08:06 AM
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Can you hear me cheering for you? This thread is really fun to follow and it is great to see people working together as you do. We have an LG 50pg60 in our bedroom. After telling my husband of your successes, he said he expects to come home someday and see the back of our TV off. I assured him I was only reading about it. However.... How would I find out if it is possible for this to be done on my model? I would never attempt this myself, but I believe my husband would be capable. Thanks
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post #387 of 1400 Old 12-13-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47crrc View Post

Can you hear me cheering for you? This thread is really fun to follow and it is great to see people working together as you do. We have an LG 50pg60 in our bedroom. After telling my husband of your successes, he said he expects to come home someday and see the back of our TV off. I assured him I was only reading about it. However.... How would I find out if it is possible for this to be done on my model? I would never attempt this myself, but I believe my husband would be capable. Thanks

I'd only turn the "Setup" pot, messing with others really doesn't make a difference to me. Besides it can mess up the pq.
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post #388 of 1400 Old 12-13-2011, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47crrc View Post

Can you hear me cheering for you? This thread is really fun to follow and it is great to see people working together as you do. We have an LG 50pg60 in our bedroom. After telling my husband of your successes, he said he expects to come home someday and see the back of our TV off. I assured him I was only reading about it. However.... How would I find out if it is possible for this to be done on my model? I would never attempt this myself, but I believe my husband would be capable. Thanks

It can be done on your model, you can use the Panel Alignment Handbook for the PG60 here:
http://136.166.4.200/contents/Displa...t_Handbook.pdf


I was able to tweak my PG25 from 2008 which was the previous line before the PG60 series, and as Goatse mentioned just the Set_up will give you a few steps lower on the overall MLL.
If your husband is adventurous he may be able to adjust the panel for an even lower black level with the other pots mentioned in this thread, but it will require more patience and the results will vary.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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post #389 of 1400 Old 12-13-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 47crrc View Post

Can you hear me cheering for you? This thread is really fun to follow and it is great to see people working together as you do. We have an LG 50pg60 in our bedroom. After telling my husband of your successes, he said he expects to come home someday and see the back of our TV off. I assured him I was only reading about it. However.... How would I find out if it is possible for this to be done on my model? I would never attempt this myself, but I believe my husband would be capable. Thanks

A quick review of the manual for your 50PG60 which can be found at jordansmanuals.com seems to suggest that at least the Vs and Va pots are inside and so some experimentation may yield good results. I did not look through the schematics in detail, but the diagrams did not seem to show any other adjustments for your set, but one would have to look inside to be sure.

Some of the posters in this thread have an understanding of what turning each pot actually does, while some do not.
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post #390 of 1400 Old 12-13-2011, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harvro01 View Post

Just wanted to share my experience in doing these adjustments, I was hesitant to do it in the first place as I was concerned about what was actually happening, however I downloaded and read the factory manuals which explained a lot.

I have a 60PK550

The end result is WOW, what a difference. A fair bit of work tweaking various pots (I did all 7) but the end result is worth it. WAY deeper blacks, no difference in terms of noise or pixel misfires.

My experience with the various adjustments (and in the order I did them, following the factory LG sequence from the manual) is as follows:

VS: Counterclockwise results in some noise in lighter pixels and lowers MLL, turning clockwise corrects the pixel noise and raises MLL but too far clockwise, and my set just shuts off and will not restart. In the end, I only adjusted this pot a hair clockwise to get rid of the white pixel noise.
VA: Clockwise lowers MLL.Did not cause any misfires for me so mine is cranked fully clockwise.
VSC: Made no appreciable difference one way or the other to anything so mine is left at centre position.
Vy: Turning clockwise results in higher MLL, counterclockwise results in lower MLL. Does not appear to introduce any artifacts or noise so mine is cranked counterclockwise.
Set_Up: Clockwise lowers MLL. I've read that turning this fully clockwise can cause some pixel misfires, however this does not appear to be the case with my set, so mine is fully cranked.
Set_Down: Clockwise lowers MLL, however fully clockwise for me also introduces may pixel errors, pixels not resetting after changing colour, so I had to back mine off a bit from fully cranked clockwise until these disappeared.
VZB: Appears to affect the 'dullness' of the overall image, minimal effect on MLL that I can tell. Clockwise seems to give the picture more 'pop', while counterclockwise gives a more washed out image. Mine is cranked fully clockwise.


As others have said, I'm sure individual results differ, but for me, the few hours tweaking these pots and looking at test images and videos are well worth it. I would say that black letterbox bars are more or less gone and blend into the bezel now. Images seem to have way more pop and depth. I have never had any issues with image retention with my set (14 months old now) and nothing seems to have changed in this regard with the tweaks.

Initially, I was trying to follow the technical manual and adjust VS and VA to the voltages listed on my panel sticker as suggested. Mine were slightly off from the sticker. This however raised the MLL and so I just fiddled with pots to see what happened in the end. I'm glad I did.

Hi havro

I was just thinking, when you followed your procedure you mentioned each adjustment lowered your MLL, was this additive as you went along so that the black was lowered more each time, or could you have obtained your final black level with just the Set_up.
I'd be curious to hear from those who initially just adjusted the Set_up and then decided latter to try havro's procedure step by step.

Robert
Toronto, Ontario
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