LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1400 Old 04-15-2012, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Brody

Now I might agree with you if we were doing this.

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post #1172 of 1400 Old 04-15-2012, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post


I'm not the one opening a $600 plasma panel to randomly turn some screws.

If my opinion reeks immaturity to you, then how should I qualify your behavior ? Being extremely irresponsible ? Opening a plasma panel while it's powered, considering the high voltage running into it must be more "mature" to you I guess.

To me, it's totally stupid and utterly dangerous.

And for your information, entering a service menu while you don't know what you're doing can damage your TV (for the peoples thinking otherwise, I dare them to enter their service menu and randomly turn some stuff on or off and see the result, might be funny).

No my friend, THIS is complete idiocy to me.
You obviously have money to waste, a lot of money.

We are all entitled to our opinions, but you have no place to come into this thread and put down those who have contributed. We all know the dangers of what we are doing, both to ourselves and our TVs. AVS wouldn't exist without us tweakers, I can assure you that. I don't think anyone posting in this thread has said that it's so easy anyone could do it.

I see you are a new member. I would suggest that, in the future, you refrain from popping into threads to essentially say, "what you are doing is dumb and you're all ignorant for doing it." That provides no helpful contribution whatsoever and is frowned upon by most of the members here.

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post #1173 of 1400 Old 04-15-2012, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by brody76 View Post


I'm not the one opening a $600 plasma panel to randomly turn some screws.

If he knew I paid much more than $600 for my (over 25 times tweaked) Plasma, I wonder what he would call me then??
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post #1174 of 1400 Old 04-16-2012, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by derod68 View Post

If he knew I paid much more than $600 for my (over 25 times tweaked) Plasma, I wonder what he would call me then??

All the more reason to get your moneys worth!

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post #1175 of 1400 Old 04-16-2012, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

You've probably already made irreversible damages.

Nonsense.
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post #1176 of 1400 Old 04-16-2012, 08:05 AM
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Hi Ywap

This might help also you just may not see the holes from which they came.

Thanks for your reply rob80b! The back cover doesn´t look exactly the same as on the picture but i have a back-up plan. A friend has the same display as i do and i´m gonna check the screws one by one
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post #1177 of 1400 Old 04-16-2012, 09:58 AM
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Still loving my tweaked 60PK550 plasma here! Holding strong at .007 MLL thanks to this very useful thread.

btw, since I had a scope and meter I had the tools to do this "right", and in my case tweaking pretty much amounted to adjusting the panel to exactly the specs called for in the service manual. In other words, doing LG's job, but more carefully.

Those engineers may have designed an excellent product, but unless someone sets it up properly before it goes out the door it will never be all it was capable of. That sort of attention to detail would drive the price up I imagine. Also, in my case it drifted since new, so it is nice to be able to readjust later as it ages.
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post #1178 of 1400 Old 04-16-2012, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpauls View Post

Still loving my tweaked 60PK550 plasma here! Holding strong at .007 MLL thanks to this very useful thread.
Those engineers may have designed an excellent product, but unless someone sets it up properly before it goes out the door it will never be all it was capable of. That sort of attention to detail would drive the price up I imagine.

And that my friends is what tweaking is all about!

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post #1179 of 1400 Old 04-17-2012, 11:16 PM
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Ok ... first off i'd like to say sorry for being an ass in my previous posts.
I did the tweak last night and .... OMFG, it's another TV.

To make up for my silliness I'm willing to share some infos on what I did.

My plasma is a 50PZ250, I basically did the same thing as the PZ550 guy (the pots are placed slightly differently though). I did tweak the Set_Dn even though he said to avoid it, and it resulted in even deeper blacks. I turned it a quarter clockwise (further would create green pixels here and there).

Tried it with MKV's and BR's, it's superb.
It's another f*cking TV, it's freaking amazing.

I can see some artifacts for 2 seconds when starting it up, but disappears as soon as the image kicks in.
Turned it off and waited for it to cool down (for about 20 minutes), and turned out perfect, no green pixels, misfired pixels or whatsoever.

Much deeper blacks resulting in much more details in dark scenes (i can clearly see the difference in Dark Night or Immortals for example).

I'd like to apologize again for my previous posts.
Hope it helped.

Cheers.
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post #1180 of 1400 Old 04-17-2012, 11:58 PM
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@brody76: Priceless!
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post #1181 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Ok ... first off i'd like to say sorry for being an ass in my previous posts.
I did the tweak last night and .... OMFG, it's another TV.

To make up for my silliness I'm willing to share some infos on what I did.

My plasma is a 50PZ250, I basically did the same thing as the PZ550 guy (the pots are placed slightly differently though). I did tweak the Set_Dn even though he said to avoid it, and it resulted in even deeper blacks. I turned it a quarter clockwise (further would create green pixels here and there).

Tried it with MKV's and BR's, it's superb.
It's another f*cking TV, it's freaking amazing.

I can see some artifacts for 2 seconds when starting it up, but disappears as soon as the image kicks in.
Turned it off and waited for it to cool down (for about 20 minutes), and turned out perfect, no green pixels, misfired pixels or whatsoever.

Much deeper blacks resulting in much more details in dark scenes (i can clearly see the difference in Dark Night or Immortals for example).

I'd like to apologize again for my previous posts.
Hope it helped.

Cheers.

Hi Brody

Apologies accepted.

As I mentioned sometimes it's a leap of faith.



But we got ya buddy, welcome aboard.

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post #1182 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

It's another f*cking TV, it's freaking amazing.

I can see some artifacts for 2 seconds when starting it up, but disappears as soon as the image kicks in.
Turned it off and waited for it to cool down (for about 20 minutes), and turned out perfect, no green pixels, misfired pixels or whatsoever.

Cheers.

Hi Brody enjoy your new set, I mean blacks....

You may still experience some artifacts once the set is turned off over night or for 2 or 3 hours but as you mentioned they clear up after a bit, I find it's a small compromise.
Watched TinTin on my bros ST30 last night, it looked really good, came home and checked it out on my PX950, it looked even better, especially the blacks.

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post #1183 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Ok ... first off i'd like to say sorry for being an ass in my previous posts.
I did the tweak last night and .... OMFG, it's another TV.

To make up for my silliness I'm willing to share some infos on what I did.

My plasma is a 50PZ250, I basically did the same thing as the PZ550 guy (the pots are placed slightly differently though). I did tweak the Set_Dn even though he said to avoid it, and it resulted in even deeper blacks. I turned it a quarter clockwise (further would create green pixels here and there).

Tried it with MKV's and BR's, it's superb.
It's another f*cking TV, it's freaking amazing.

I can see some artifacts for 2 seconds when starting it up, but disappears as soon as the image kicks in.
Turned it off and waited for it to cool down (for about 20 minutes), and turned out perfect, no green pixels, misfired pixels or whatsoever.

Much deeper blacks resulting in much more details in dark scenes (i can clearly see the difference in Dark Night or Immortals for example).

I'd like to apologize again for my previous posts.
Hope it helped.

Cheers.

Apology accepted and much appreciated. I was happy with my set beforehand but considered getting a new TV. After the tweak, I'm no longer on the market. Enjoy your "new" TV.

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post #1184 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 03:31 PM
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Thanks.

I got back at it today, and guess what, I could make it even better and even darker.

It's amazing the changes you can do to your TV just by turning a few pots.

My blacks now blend into the bezel, this is just freaking amazing.

Totally eliminated the noise in the bright scenes by slightly tweaking the VS.

Now I'm trying to eliminate the green/pink pixels that show up on a cold start in the lower left corner. It's related to the low MLL I guess.

I guess i won't be able to eradicate them totally (the price to pay for an amazing image ? Count me in), but i wanna reduce it as much as possible to make it tolerable.

They last like 2-5 minutes max on a cold start (tweaked last night, started this morning on a BR disk, green/pink pixels emanating from the left bottom corner and spread to the right).

I don't wanna sound like a fool and talk nonsense, but I'm pretty sure we're getting some of the best blacks out there, if not the best (close to Kuro).
LG trying to stay away from problems with Pioneer ? In any case, their panels are prepared for much better images than what we get out of the box.
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post #1185 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 03:45 PM
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Not even close to Kuro elite, the blacks you and other folks are getting (including on my samsung) are in the 0.004 - 0.006 ftL range. Excellent levels yes 5x better than factory but the Kuros can get below 0.001 ftL, more than 4x what we are achieving.
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post #1186 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 03:50 PM
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Not even close to Kuro elite, the blacks you and other folks are getting (including on my samsung) are in the 0.004 - 0.006 ftL range. Excellent levels yes 5x better than factory but the Kuros can get below 0.001 ftL, more than 4x what we are achieving.

Yep, Kuros are amazing TV sets.
But they come with a price ...

Considering the price I bought my plasma (about 700$) this is a pretty amazing achievement.
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post #1187 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 03:55 PM
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post #1188 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I know we do not have Kuro blacks, at least the top tier but the tweaking has more than satisfied the urge to jump ship.
When I was getting into the plasma race I wanted a Kuro and coming from a 28 Sony I was looking for a 42er but none were left to be had thinking that was big enough, silly me.
Anyway watching TinTin again this evening I got that Kuro feeling until the lights went on and remembered it was a LG we were watching.











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post #1189 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Thanks.

I got back at it today, and guess what, I could make it even better and even darker.

It's amazing the changes you can do to your TV just by turning a few pots.

My blacks now blend into the bezel, this is just freaking amazing.

Totally eliminated the noise in the bright scenes by slightly tweaking the VS.

Now I'm trying to eliminate the green/pink pixels that show up on a cold start in the lower left corner. It's related to the low MLL I guess.

I guess i won't be able to eradicate them totally (the price to pay for an amazing image ? Count me in), but i wanna reduce it as much as possible to make it tolerable.

They last like 2-5 minutes max on a cold start (tweaked last night, started this morning on a BR disk, green/pink pixels emanating from the left bottom corner and spread to the right).

I don't wanna sound like a fool and talk nonsense, but I'm pretty sure we're getting some of the best blacks out there, if not the best (close to Kuro).
LG trying to stay away from problems with Pioneer ? In any case, their panels are prepared for much better images than what we get out of the box.

Hi Brody

Now that you've caught the bug don't carried away and embarrass us all by getting even lower MLLs..

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post #1190 of 1400 Old 04-18-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Thanks.

It's amazing the changes you can do to your TV just by turning a few pots.

My blacks now blend into the bezel, this is just freaking amazing.

You sound like my brother when I asked him for help getting the set off the wall to do tweaks, probably thinking what the he@@ is he up to now.

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Originally Posted by wiremite View Post

I did get a kick out of tweaking my brother Bob's LG. Seeing in real tiime the grey bars turn pitch black was very satifying. The black level definitely matches (exceeds!?) my ST30 black levels. That a little analog knob could have so much control seems comical when you consider the advanced technology that gets poured into these panels. Maybe someone should figure a smart way to drill holes in the cover to get at the pods.

I'll take deep blacks with a two minute warm up anytime.


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post #1191 of 1400 Old 04-19-2012, 05:16 AM
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I've been tweaking my PK950N. The best thing about it: That I've learned so much about how plasma televisions work! Before the tweaking I studied the service manual thoroughly and read every post in this thread at least twice.

As it turns out I might have one of the few sets that was pretty much on target out-of-the-box. Thinking back this was not much of a surprise as I've been pretty satisfied with the black level and thought it matched my Pana G20 (incidentally also what flatpanelshd.com said about the PK950N). It has about 500 hours on the clock.

In any case, I did improve the MLL a little bit. This was my procedure:

I started by measuring all the V* values using a multimeter. They were all within 1 volt of the numbers on the label. Then I started turning SET_UP clockwise (using a plastic adjustment tool I bought off ebay). Already after a few millimeters there were misfires. I tested if turning Vy would give me more headroom but there was no noticeable difference. SET_DN was the same, after a couple of millimeters clockwise there were misfires.

BTW, I chose to concentrate on the Y-SUS board. But I did a quick check if turning VA on the SMPS (PSU) board would give me more headroom for SET_UP, but I can't say it did so I adjusted it back to spec.

I did notice though that turning Vy counterclockwise lowered the MLL a tiny amount and I got a cleaner picture, with less noise. And the couple of millimeters I got on SET_UP also lowered the MLL a little bit. So I'm still a happy camper.
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post #1192 of 1400 Old 04-19-2012, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Voz View Post


As it turns out I might have one of the few sets that was pretty much on target out-of-the-box. Thinking back this was not much of a surprise as I've been pretty satisfied with the black level and thought it matched my Pana G20 (incidentally also what flatpanelshd.com said about the PK950N). It has about 500 hours on the clock.

In any case, I did improve the MLL a little bit. This was my procedure:

I started by measuring all the V* values using a multimeter. They were all within 1 volt of the numbers on the label. Then I started turning SET_UP clockwise (using a plastic adjustment tool I bought off ebay). Already after a few millimeters there were misfires. I tested if turning Vy would give me more headroom but there was no noticeable difference. SET_DN was the same, after a couple of millimeters clockwise there were misfires.

BTW, I chose to concentrate on the Y-SUS board. But I did a quick check if turning VA on the SMPS (PSU) board would give me more headroom for SET_UP, but I can't say it did so I adjusted it back to spec.

I did notice though that turning Vy counterclockwise lowered the MLL a tiny amount and I got a cleaner picture, with less noise. And the couple of millimeters I got on SET_UP also lowered the MLL a little bit. So I'm still a happy camper.

As we mentioned all through this thread results do vary, but the better panels were not left only for the flagships, unfortunately it's more of a crap shoot and some of the top models fared less than some of the lower models but all benefited from the tweaks.
LG obviously played it safe and did the factory adjustments to accommodate the lowest common denominator when it came to MLLs and panel stability.

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post #1193 of 1400 Old 04-19-2012, 07:07 AM
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Been tweaking for a few hours earlier (yep, again), finally put the cover back on because I reached satisfaction. The blacks are deep and mix with the bezel in the dark, I believe it's the best I can get on this set.

The green pixels are present for the first 5-10 minutes of warm up on a cold start up. But from my viewing distance I barely distinguish them in the dark areas.

A very small compromise considering the quality of image I could attain ..

PS: very Kuro-like pictures 8)
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post #1194 of 1400 Old 04-20-2012, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Brad View Post

Fade, I have not experienced anything like what you mentioned. Have you tried calibrating since the tweak?

Yes I did, it's a strange issue and goes away when I set the screen to 60hz. I don't think it has anything to do with this tweak (if so 60hz would be strange also). I did try to use the AVS HD disc in the bluray player but it got no "blinking" pattern. So I cant rule out if it's a htpc issue or tv issue.
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post #1195 of 1400 Old 04-20-2012, 06:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Fade View Post

Yes I did, it's a strange issue and goes away when I set the screen to 60hz. I don't think it has anything to do with this tweak (if so 60hz would be strange also). I did try to use the AVS HD disc in the bluray player but it got no "blinking" pattern. So I cant rule out if it's a htpc issue or tv issue.

Hi Fade

I've seen this crop up more often than not when using a HDTV off a PC, odd things happening with the TV's on board video processing and the video signal from the PC.
I do not have the answers but there are a lot well informed and knowledgeable folks on AVS so if posted as a separate thread, listing the specs and settings of your HTPC you might get an answer to solve the problem.

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post #1196 of 1400 Old 04-21-2012, 06:52 AM
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Could manage to get rid of the green pixels on a cold start (tweaked the VZB accordingly).
Deep blacks and no more undesirable effects, this is how my panel should be from the start.
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post #1197 of 1400 Old 04-21-2012, 10:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brody76 View Post

Could manage to get rid of the green pixels on a cold start (tweaked the VZB accordingly).
Deep blacks and no more undesirable effects, this is how my panel should be from the start.

Hi Brody

Thanks for the update.

Interesting use of VZB.(It's on the Z-SUS board for those who have not seen it)

"The Z-SUS (in combination with the Y-SUS) generates a
SUSTAIN Signal and an ERASE PULSE for generating SUSTAIN and DISCHARGE in the Panel.
This waveform is supplied to the panel through Z-SUB and
then to FPC (Flexible Printed Circuit) connections......."


Not too many have used it in their adjustments sticking primarily to the Y-SUS Board (Set_up and Set_dn) and the Power Supply Board (Vs and Va).

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post #1198 of 1400 Old 04-21-2012, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Brody

Forgot to ask if the VZB was adjusted to the panel label or offset according to what was needed to eliminate the start-up misfires.
Also some will ask if you adjusted the pot clockwise or counter clockwise.

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post #1199 of 1400 Old 04-21-2012, 11:52 AM
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My bet is counter clockwise.
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post #1200 of 1400 Old 04-21-2012, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turrican4D View Post

My bet is counter clockwise.

Hi Marc

Now why would you say that, but then YOU already know!

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Hehe

Even on my own PK350 I tried very different approaches.

VZB also has a sweet spot, that you can find the best with halflit secenes leike the one in "The American" ight at the sturt, when Clooney lies there with his soon to be dead girlfriend-> You turn VZB full counterclockwise: The picture will have lost its depth. Now you move slowly(!) micrometer for micrometer clockwise just to the point, where this moviescene jumps back to depth and contrast.

This is what you might get with the seven pots, if you set it too much clockwise or counterclockwise:

VZB_
___: noise (clockwise) or dullness (counterclockwise)
Vs_____: noisy whites/pixelmissfires (clockwise) or dullness/extreme pixelmissfires (counterclockwise)
VA_____: none obvious erros but possible pixelmissfires with static fullgreen screen (clockwise)
VSC____: None obvious errors or artifacts
Vy_____: noise/less MLL (clockwise) or better MLL (counterclockwise)
Set_Up_: pixelmissfires/better MLL (clockwise) or bad MLL (counterclockwise)
Set_Dn_: noise/better MLL (clockwise) or bad MLL


Robert
Toronto, Ontario

 

https://myspace.com/151752802/videos

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