LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 48 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1433 Old 12-27-2014, 07:26 AM
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I just picked up a 60PB5600 on Black Friday and was dissapointed with the initial black levels coming from an S64 Panasonic. I remembered this LG tweak from my previous 50" plasma and it worked great there so I was excited to get started.

Took all the screws off the back only to find that the base of the unit is actually holding onto the back panel as well. Can't get it off without unscrewing the base. Before I could do anything about that the front bezel flipped forward and the pane of glass off the front tumbled to the ground along with 3 of the internal mounting frames. Not sure of the 6600 is built the same way but I recommend proceeding with caution. Took me awhile to figure out how to put it all back together again, especially by myself. I was worried of getting dust/dirt inside the glass so I used a microfiber cloth. Got almost all of it but I can see a little bit still stuck in there when I get close on a full color slide.... sad.

So what am I to do now? I haven't done any of the tweaks still. I'm thinking of putting the plasma face down, removing the base and all the back panel screws, then lightly putting the base and most of the panel screws back in to keep the TV together a little bit - due to the tweaks/ test and then reverse the process.

Any pointers?
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post #1412 of 1433 Old 12-27-2014, 11:22 AM
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OK, to rapidly follow up on that - I decided to give it another shot today. Got the TV facedown on a futon, took the stand off - took the back off. Put 8 screws back in with washers to help hold the TV altogether, put the stand screws back in (they were loose because the back panel was missing but it held together). Stood the TV back up and tweaked where she stood. A little disappointed by the results, to be honest. On my first LG plasma (3 years ago) the results were night and day - incredibly deep blacks. I went to extremes on this model (PB5600) and got only minimal change. Wasn't even able to get pixel misfires so most things are full tilt one direction or the other. Not sure it was the worth the effort/risk but it did improve some. Overall I'm happy with the set (especially for the price) but disappointed in the black levels. Hope this helps someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbegone View Post
I just picked up a 60PB5600 on Black Friday and was dissapointed with the initial black levels coming from an S64 Panasonic. I remembered this LG tweak from my previous 50" plasma and it worked great there so I was excited to get started.

Took all the screws off the back only to find that the base of the unit is actually holding onto the back panel as well. Can't get it off without unscrewing the base. Before I could do anything about that the front bezel flipped forward and the pane of glass off the front tumbled to the ground along with 3 of the internal mounting frames. Not sure of the 6600 is built the same way but I recommend proceeding with caution. Took me awhile to figure out how to put it all back together again, especially by myself. I was worried of getting dust/dirt inside the glass so I used a microfiber cloth. Got almost all of it but I can see a little bit still stuck in there when I get close on a full color slide.... sad.

So what am I to do now? I haven't done any of the tweaks still. I'm thinking of putting the plasma face down, removing the base and all the back panel screws, then lightly putting the base and most of the panel screws back in to keep the TV together a little bit - due to the tweaks/ test and then reverse the process.

Any pointers?
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post #1413 of 1433 Old 12-27-2014, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by johnbegone View Post
OK, to rapidly follow up on that - I decided to give it another shot today. Got the TV facedown on a futon, took the stand off - took the back off. Put 8 screws back in with washers to help hold the TV altogether, put the stand screws back in (they were loose because the back panel was missing but it held together). Stood the TV back up and tweaked where she stood. A little disappointed by the results, to be honest. On my first LG plasma (3 years ago) the results were night and day - incredibly deep blacks. I went to extremes on this model (PB5600) and got only minimal change. Wasn't even able to get pixel misfires so most things are full tilt one direction or the other. Not sure it was the worth the effort/risk but it did improve some. Overall I'm happy with the set (especially for the price) but disappointed in the black levels. Hope this helps someone else.

If this is my first time doing a panel tweaks -- is it even worth it?
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post #1414 of 1433 Old 12-30-2014, 02:51 AM
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Okay...I’ve seen a lot on this forum. There doesn’t appear to be very much in terms of a technical understanding of how to achieve good black levels apart from tweaking a few pots.

I have a LG 32PG6000 Plasma and the only Pots to play around with are ‘Set_DN’ ‘Vs’ and ‘Va’. I can tweak those pots until pixels misfire. However, the black level is still poor. Should I adjust ‘Set_DN’ until pixel misfire and use ‘Vs’ to clear pixel misfire, or should the ‘Set_DN’ be used to clear pixel misfire to achieve best black level? Is there a modification I can use on the ‘SC’ board to allow adjustments of other parameters on that board?

Thanks in Advance.
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post #1415 of 1433 Old 12-30-2014, 07:46 AM
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Hi guys!
I have a LG 50pb560v: I like it, but not very well. I'd like to have better black (now it is gray....) then I'm thinking about this tweak.
It's only 3 months old, then i have a question: did somebody need warranty after the tweak?

Thanks guys for this thread!
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post #1416 of 1433 Old 12-30-2014, 07:57 AM
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I like so much the lighting scenes, but in dark scenes I loose a lot of detail.
Then I hope the tweak could be increase quality in dark scenes.
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post #1417 of 1433 Old 01-01-2015, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelo1986 View Post
I like so much the lighting scenes, but in dark scenes I loose a lot of detail.
Then I hope the tweak could be increase quality in dark scenes.
Hi I have good tip for you, if you have picture wizard in Europe version 50pb560v there is sure picture wizard as you know, try to check optimal brightness, and on Blu Ray player you have shure adjusted LOW black level and HDMI named BLU RAy, then just scan option, contrast and panel light on MAX, colour amount recommended by Picture wizard, brightness recomended by picture wizard and the night scenes without POTI tuning are then OK visible not in dark black glory but just fine important is exactly balanced adjustment as well. And the last thing I will get profi calibration it will give in dark images accurancy max. possible with out of box black levels, without tuning later on I`ll consider for some people this POT tuning on 2014 models didn`t ended so well means some gets pixel missfires of strange colour hues, some people reported only imprved black levels however not dramatically like in older LG plasmas, do not concentrate on blacks all plasmas looks best in light and medium bright pictures , dark pictures are sometimes even badly done, in some movies dark scenes are excellent on low range TVs if filmaker knows how to make it... For instance my optimal brightness is 54 for instance, it is exactly amount where I can see same dark scenes details like on Samsung plasma from 2008(out of box - pretty accurate brightness , very fair visibility) which owns my parents, compared in movie Edge of tomorrow - latest dark scenes(where they are fighting Alpha and killing Omega), and 54 is measurement of picture wizard it is quite accurate for brightness judgement.

p.s. I saw worst looking dark scenes on 1day tested Samsung F8500 64" and it was better looking sure but, these scenes were nothing good looking compared to bright ones, there were still behind with quality feeling. Maybe on Panasonic VT60 ZT60 I would have different opinion or with OLED 4K LG / far away future purchase of many people will be OLEDs .
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post #1418 of 1433 Old 01-01-2015, 06:25 PM
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I recently purchased an LG 60PB6650 that I am very pleased with. I read so many posts about poor black levels, as well as a professional review of one of the other LG 2014 models with black level issues, that I almost did not purchase this TV. However, in the showroom I did not see any issues so I went ahead and pulled the trigger. Now that I have the LG in my family room (and reasonably calibrated), I don't understand what everyone is complaining about. The black levels appear fine to me. The only issue I had with the display unit in the show room was that what I would call "glare" - to much light on faces caused the faces to be too bright and washed out. When I first set up the TV in my family room, I had the same problem. After running the Wizard, I turned down the brightness and the panel light settings and the problem was solved. I am very happy with the LG and wondering what I am missing here. Are my expectations to low? Can someone explain what exactly the issue is with the black levels?
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post #1419 of 1433 Old 01-02-2015, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MK1980 View Post
Hi I have good tip for you, if you have picture wizard in Europe version 50pb560v there is sure picture wizard as you know, try to check optimal brightness, and on Blu Ray player you have shure adjusted LOW black level and HDMI named BLU RAy, then just scan option, contrast and panel light on MAX, colour amount recommended by Picture wizard, brightness recomended by picture wizard and the night scenes without POTI tuning are then OK visible not in dark black glory but just fine important is exactly balanced adjustment as well. And the last thing I will get profi calibration it will give in dark images accurancy max. possible with out of box black levels, without tuning later on I`ll consider for some people this POT tuning on 2014 models didn`t ended so well means some gets pixel missfires of strange colour hues, some people reported only imprved black levels however not dramatically like in older LG plasmas, do not concentrate on blacks all plasmas looks best in light and medium bright pictures , dark pictures are sometimes even badly done, in some movies dark scenes are excellent on low range TVs if filmaker knows how to make it... For instance my optimal brightness is 54 for instance, it is exactly amount where I can see same dark scenes details like on Samsung plasma from 2008(out of box - pretty accurate brightness , very fair visibility) which owns my parents, compared in movie Edge of tomorrow - latest dark scenes(where they are fighting Alpha and killing Omega), and 54 is measurement of picture wizard it is quite accurate for brightness judgement.

p.s. I saw worst looking dark scenes on 1day tested Samsung F8500 64" and it was better looking sure but, these scenes were nothing good looking compared to bright ones, there were still behind with quality feeling. Maybe on Panasonic VT60 ZT60 I would have different opinion or with OLED 4K LG / far away future purchase of many people will be OLEDs .
Thanks so much mk1980!
Now, from your settings, I'm using:
- panel light e contrast 100
- brightness 48 (imho 56 is too higt and you 46 could be better taking to 48)
- All sharpness 10
- Color 55

Using picture wizard I don't lose this settings, but just modify it?!
If you think I could have better results, I'll sure try it!

Yes, I had read about small improvement of quality on lg 2014, but somebody talk about little improvements and others about good improvements: what I have to think?!

PS: Sorry for my bad english: I have to study it better!
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post #1420 of 1433 Old 01-02-2015, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelo1986 View Post
Thanks so much mk1980!
Now, from your settings, I'm using:
- panel light e contrast 100
- brightness 48 (imho 56 is too higt and you 46 could be better taking to 48)
- All sharpness 10
- Color 55

Using picture wizard I don't lose this settings, but just modify it?!
If you think I could have better results, I'll sure try it!

Yes, I had read about small improvement of quality on lg 2014, but somebody talk about little improvements and others about good improvements: what I have to think?!

PS: Sorry for my bad english: I have to study it better!
I am using picture wizard recommended brightness and colour amount setting with very standard other adjustmensts for 1month, but with WARM2 white setting in Expert options, it is giving really rich colours but it`s not that punchy like Medium white (which is cold out of spec anyhow), which is missing many grey colours and wider colour spectrum on other side.

I think shure you must use expert setting 1(which is judged by picture wizard) but expert setting need to be better by you preadjusted before running picture wizard which will judge accurance of your selected setting and recommend changes, like I have had, pls try my advice and then run and readjust picture wizard.
Expert1:
panel light, /contrast - full 100 (I prefer higher contrast, wizard recommend something above 90 like OK)
Brightness 54 ( YES 46 is not enough,but in darker scenes you have stil missing fully silluettes , many details hidden in dark around brightness 48... , picture wizard on your set however may recommend 48, it is individual, 54 it is for me , all scene details are full, no crushed blacks, perfect ! )
NO tint change
Sharpness 5 ( over 5 sharpness just came closer to for instance on Hobit2 big screen face of Gandalf you will see small colour artifacts ruining image with sharpness 10, I found sharpness is great using High quality Blu Ray player / I have Sony BDP S6200 cannot complain / one of the bests, it is giving big depth to picture without need of ruining colours by big sharpness. Sharpness 5 was recommended on setting adviced by reviewing side for these 2014 LG sets, similar sharpness recommend for last Samsung 2013 plasmas)
all gimmicks like dynamic colours brightness off
then Gamma 2,2
Colour Gamut / Standard
White balance / WARM2
2point IRE ( i have found in LOW IRE green hues! so I have in Dawn of planet apes, in chapter 4 stoped issue sequence little bit minused green colour -5 up to -8 is looking OK, and -5 I have done for RED colour because of missing green red was pushed to image, it is not pro calibration but it is looking OK< otherwise WARM2 was too OFF spec in LOW IREs with GREEN hues over low light scenes minusing green and red little bit saved Warm2 usability for me , each set is different yours one maybe no need any small improvement)
Colour management / no change
PICTURE RATIO / JUST SCAN (important if you would like to see sharp movies, 16:9 setting is streching 21:9 widescreen movies looking after that not super sharp.. )
then pls run picture wizard which recommended for me to use on 54 brightness (recommended on my set) 57 colour! then, it is looking best in all movies without PRO calibration , for which I am waiting. What I do not follow picture wizard if recommend green 1 or red1 TINT or Green2 , RED2 - it is not very good impact to colour scheme playing with Tints with minimum out of picture wizard recommendation, I would better leave TINT no change.

I think POTI tuning is OK for people which have osciloscope meter for voltage measuring and people skilled with assembly disassembly of TV and very carefull tuners, which can take risk that some colour hues will damage their picture without chance to return to original condition and they can live with that ( I cannot) each set will react to POTI tuning different so advices are not to be taken 100% their is high risk, and 2 times maybe darker black level achieved which is more close to Samsung like black but it is still no dealbreaker without this tuning you at least no need to worry about damage of your set, their is no best solution for POTI tuning for 2014 sets and no USER training manuals. So I would on your place adjust brightness and colours by picture wizard, few times (because in first 500 hours plasma display is stabilizing only) Pls forget about any special setting without PRO calibration with measurement equipment. Try to play with using WARM2 setting and no colour changes to White balance and colour management, it should most probably be looking Pretty cool, you`ll see dirty walls( just like they should be ) not super white, which is not meant by filmakers. I can tell 54 brightness compared to brightness below 50 is giving me MANY extra details and many appearance pluses in dark scenes,so black level isn`t everything.
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Last edited by MK1980; 01-02-2015 at 06:48 PM.
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post #1421 of 1433 Unread 01-21-2015, 01:42 AM
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I just got done tweaking Set_Dn on my set (I had previously set Set_Up to full clockwise). I was able to get the MLL down to .005 ftL to match my brothers ST30. I was able to turn Set_Dn from approx 3:00 to roughly 4:00 o'clock. I found it easier to turn Set_Dn full clockwise and work backwards until misfires were no longer noticeable. I did not touch any of the other pots.

After adjustment, I was able to measure an ANSI contrast ratio of 3481! .008ftL/28.183ftL!

Overall, I am very pleased with the results and now it is time for a new calibration. I will begin with a 2 point Day time calibration and then a 20 point Night time calibration.
Hi I have question, anyhow this is very old post, but question is general to all people as well. If display is fully calibrated in 20 IRE professionally for 2D and 3D , is it necessary after POT tweak to recalibrate again because of increased contrast ratio? My model is 2014 european 60pb690v 3D, which is now having 0,023-26 ftl 0,07-0,09 cd m2 blacks, numbers are roughly because it was measured in 50hz signal and in middle of picture after long time temporrary Image Retention appeared which could higher up black level for short time, so in best case I have now 0,07 cd m2 without POT tweak, so far 2014 sets looking able to achieve only 0,03-04 after POT tweak at best to my eyes nothing so great. Has somebody measurement of 2014 LG plasma before and after tweak blacks ? Last thing Set UP , Set Down tweaking is my only concern for this panel. Tks.

Last edited by MK1980; 01-21-2015 at 04:05 AM.
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post #1422 of 1433 Unread 01-22-2015, 09:48 AM
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Not to say a measurement system couldn't detect a difference, but running the set-up wizard after pot adjustment resulted in no changes in panel set points.
Frank
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post #1423 of 1433 Unread 01-22-2015, 02:30 PM
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You DONT want too electrocute yourself adjusting pots.Another person that fixes tvs said NOT too adjust the VA up higher than sticker values.He said it can fry the tv.This is on a Samsung tv.

On an lg I had I put up a color bars pattern and made the black bar as dark as possible with the low end grayscale adjusters.It ended up making it more blue and quite dark.
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post #1424 of 1433 Unread 01-23-2015, 08:19 AM
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Thanks for your supportive feedback, however for 2014 2D sets fully clockwise Set UP Set Down didnt caused damage or etc. and improvement of black level has been confirmed. It`s looking like we have no guide for 2014 sets POT tuning just risking oh my. Fbov is correct that with scope measuring voltage of Set UP and Set Down and adjust reasonable volages between original POT measurement and recommended by older models in old models training manuals should be possible good direction, I have as well 60pb690v European 60pb6900 3D set 2014, worry to touch without more possitive POT tuning attempts here . Has anybody else tuned 2014 3D (as well 2D) LG plasmas with success and with different method like fully Clockwise Set up Set down? My mll black level as I have said was measured 0,09 cd m2 ( in best case could be 0,07 because measured on Image retention place... ) , my target around 0,03-04 cd m2 (0,1 - 0,13 ftl) is fine in my book, no need 0,01-02 cd m2 as we saw in best results here.
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Last edited by MK1980; 01-27-2015 at 12:07 AM.
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post #1425 of 1433 Unread 02-11-2015, 12:06 PM
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50 6650 Friday breakin

UPS will bring it on Friday is this good advice? Thanks ron

REVISION
: As the sets are better built to handle IR, the break-in period can be lowered to 100-150 HRS

Plasma TV Break-In

Break-in consists of a set of steps you should make right after you bought your plasma TV. Its purpose is to slowly prepare the TV for regular watching. During the break-in period, you will have to limit yourself a bit in regard to how you use your plasma TV. The break-in should be performed for the first 100-200 hours of operation. You can perform it exclusively or integrate it between your regular TV watching hours. During these 100-200 hours, the plasma TV is prone to accelerated burn-in because the pixels are fresh and fire at maximum intensity.

* Select the appropriate mode when you first power up your plasma TV. Most modern plasma TVs ask if you are going to use them in a store or in your home. In “store” they are in “torch mode” having maximum contrast and brightness to overcome the extreme lighting and look good.
* Calibrate them or use the appropriate picture mode. Some of the models have a picture mode in which they offer best picture quality. Others need to be calibrated manually to obtain best picture. Whether you select just the picture mode or you calibrate them, the brightness and contrast should not be maximum but around 50-60%.
* Watch only full-screen content. Avoid watching 4:3 content or use the zoom function to make it fill the screen. Same for cinemascope content which is shorter than the screen and puts black bars at top and bottom of the picture. If you have to watch non full-screen content at least make the sidebars or top and bottom bars gray instead of black.
* Don’t play games on it and don’t use it as a computer monitor.
* Mix the content. If you are watching programs that have logo, news ticker or any other static elements don’t leave the TV on the same channel for more than an hour. Ideally avoid watching such programs in the first hours.
* Don’t pause for long times, don’t leave your DVD menu paused on screen, etc.

You can use the white wash* function, if present, for the first few hours in order to wear out the pixels a bit. Then you can watch regular content, sticking to the rules described above. You can perform the break-in in one continuous run for the first 100-200 hours if you are patient enough. If you don’t however, watch regular content whenever you want and when you’re not in front of the TV (eating, sleeping, away) leave on the white wash* or a full-screen program/movie without logo or other static content. Note that if using white wash* function, you should do so for less time than the recommended 100-200 hours since it wears out the pixels at an accelerated pace and it accomplishes the same thing faster. Ideally you should use the white wash* for the first hour and after that watch regular full-screen content without static parts.

*WHITEWASH
http://dvice.com/archives/2008/05/shift-image-ret.php


Heres more Break-in, burn-in, and image retention information from Samsung:
http://www.samsungplasmatvfaq.com/in...mage_retention
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post #1426 of 1433 Unread 02-15-2015, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MK1980 View Post
Thanks for your supportive feedback, however for 2014 2D sets fully clockwise Set UP Set Down didnt caused damage or etc. and improvement of black level has been confirmed. It`s looking like we have no guide for 2014 sets POT tuning just risking oh my. Fbov is correct that with scope measuring voltage of Set UP and Set Down and adjust reasonable volages between original POT measurement and recommended by older models in old models training manuals should be possible good direction, I have as well 60pb690v European 60pb6900 3D set 2014, worry to touch without more possitive POT tuning attempts here . Has anybody else tuned 2014 3D (as well 2D) LG plasmas with success and with different method like fully Clockwise Set up Set down? My mll black level as I have said was measured 0,09 cd m2 ( in best case could be 0,07 because measured on Image retention place... ) , my target around 0,03-04 cd m2 (0,1 - 0,13 ftl) is fine in my book, no need 0,01-02 cd m2 as we saw in best results here.
I'm trying to find out the same thing as well.
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post #1427 of 1433 Unread 02-25-2015, 09:25 AM
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Firstly thanks for all the advise on this forum.

I have a UK 60pb690v I have recently turned the Set UP and Set Down fully clockwise, I have noticed better blacks and generally now very happy with the picture quality.

However I have noticed a buzzing sound from the TV (10 feet away with sound off). I have only had the TV a couple of days and not sure if this buzzing was as noticable before the pot turning. Is it normal for buzzing to be louder after pot turning?

I have the TV connected to a PC, when watching a film or playing a game I cant hear the buzz but when doing general PC stuff I certainly can. Might have to open the Tv up and change the pots back to their original position and test.

Anyone had experience with louder buzzing after pot turning?

Thanks
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post #1428 of 1433 Unread 02-25-2015, 01:05 PM
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So you didn't have any kind of pixel misfires or other image problems after turning both fully clockwise?
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So you didn't have any kind of pixel misfires or other image problems after turning both fully clockwise?
No the display is good, its just a now noticeable buzz. The pots had to be turned less that 360 degrees until they couldnt go any further. I see others (with different LG plasmas) commenting on doing over 2-3 full turns till they cant go any further.
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nvm

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I bought an LG 50PB560V few days ago. First I had a problem with overscan from my HTPC/OpenELEC box, picture was outside of the panel. This was fixed with renaming the HDMI output to PC. But after that, the picture was too bright (black was gray). After some digging in the menu, I changed the HDMI level from auto to LOW, and the blacks are now ok, even though my old Samsung PS50C450 has a little better blacks.
But the main issue there is a halo/mist around hight contrast objects like text in the XBMC menu (bright/white text on dark/black background), subtitles, buttons, etc. I do not notice this when watching movies though. I don't have such issue on my old Samsung plasma. Is this normal for this TV, or should I be concerned and return the set? It's quite annoying.
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post #1432 of 1433 Unread 03-18-2015, 02:22 PM
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White wash screen 50PB6650

I have the back off and up and running, I have checked the VS,VA,VY,ZB voltages and all are right on the money. I do not see a VCS on this set. I am using the info for 50r3 panel for guidance. How do I find the white wash screen on this set, to use for pot tweaking? Thanks ron
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post #1433 of 1433 Unread Today, 07:52 AM
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If I were to open a support case with LG, would they send someone out to adjust the pots?
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