LG Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 1397 Old 11-27-2011, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voz View Post

Thanks. So now we've got two new pots to play with, VZB (on the Z-SUS board) and VSC.

Interesting. Wonder if those two POTs will help those who've already tweaked without them. My blacks are already so much better than stock so I doubt I'll be rushing to take my TV apart anytime soon. Gonna kick back and just enjoy it for now.
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post #212 of 1397 Old 11-27-2011, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emig5m View Post

Interesting. Wonder if those two POTs will help those who've already tweaked without them. My blacks are already so much better than stock so I doubt I'll be rushing to take my TV apart anytime soon. Gonna kick back and just enjoy it for now.

same with me. I figure I will screw it up if I try again.
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post #213 of 1397 Old 11-27-2011, 01:10 PM
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I saw those websites months ago and I posted the links on the lg pk550 thread on the
04-19-11 here is the link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post20327369 but I dint want to mess with so many pots...so I mess with just the set_up and set_down but it didn't do that much...for now I stick with the settings that I tried, the ones that rob80b posted on the first page,maybe later I try the german method but I think is too complicated...too many pots...Im going to think about it...



here is another german link with screenshots of movies after the pot tweak...
http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-141-1669-29.html

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post #214 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 02:30 AM
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Some of the german guys used a multimeter while adjusting the V* pots. Not a very bad idea, I think.
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post #215 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voz View Post

Some of the german guys used a multimeter while adjusting the V* pots. Not a very bad idea, I think.

And in doing so they discovered that the panel voltages for VA and VS might not necessarily match the values inscribed by LG on the individual panel labels.
The best way would be to approach the optimum settings would be using a voltmeter and oscilloscope as I mentioned earlier on in the thread.

Watching the Thief over the weekend using the Apple TV and Netflix I was comparing my tweaked PG25 to my PX950 and brother's Panasonic ST30, now the transfer is so so (welcome to Netflix) and black is problematic producing a lot of visual noise, dark green pixels in dark scenes and was a lot more evident on the Panasonic ST30, slightly less on the PX950 which produced low res gradients but the adjusted PG25 which I tweaked using this film had no visual noise (or very little) in the dark scenes although I've a few misfires toward red in lighter scenes.
Mind you the PG25 is the same 720dpi resolution as the Apple TV and may contribute to the cleaner picture, interesting.

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post #216 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 11:41 AM
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I'm no electric engineer, but what are the downside to cranking up the VS, VY dials?
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post #217 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 11:51 AM
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can someone please give a pic of the back of a pk550 with signs what is what? kinda scared turning something that i'm not totally aware of what it's doing. A step-by-step would be highly appreciated, since pictures in the german forum are not showing up for me! ;/
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post #218 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

I'm no electric engineer, but what are the downside to cranking up the VS, VY dials?

I don't think it matters if you are an engineer or not. Vs in general is the sustain voltage but it is/can also be the initial bias of the reset voltage (electrode Y) during the set-up period or the bias of the Z electrode on the set-down period depending on what waveform LG is using. Vy is even more complicated LOL.

The downside is that while you may improve black levels you have altered the wall charge preceeding the address step which leads to loss of control of the pixels. Portions of pixels may light up randomly or fail to light up when asked to.

You may find a setting that works very well under most conditions but may produce these pixel artifacts under specific conditions (certain patterns, temperature (local & ambient)..etc)

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post #219 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

I don't think it matters if you are an engineer or not. Vs in general is the sustain voltage but it is/can also be the initial bias of the reset voltage (electrode Y) during the set-up period or the bias of the Z electrode on the set-down period depending on what waveform LG is using. Vy is even more complicated LOL.

The downside is that while you may improve black levels you have altered the wall charge preceeding the address step which leads to loss of control of the pixels. Portions of pixels may light up randomly or fail to light up when asked to.

You may find a setting that works very well under most conditions but may produce these pixel artifacts under specific conditions (certain patterns, temperature (local & ambient)..etc)

yeh I had no idea what that meant LOL. Guess if i keep seeing random white misfires, I'll go back to stock. I don't want to lose the life of the tv just for some black levels.
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post #220 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 01:26 PM
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well let me tell you I decide to do the other two pots the VZB and VSC and my only word is ( wow )deeper black levels, is a very tricky process but the results are phenomenal...I think that Im having less issues because my tv is the same model of the german site is the pk550 ,im not sure how this procedure is going to works on other models.the model that are compatible with this tweak are the pk550,pk750 and pk950 there are some other models that can works too like the models from the same year from sams club or costco and bjs dont know the model numbers.if you try this tweak on other models that are not listed, you could have some problems here and there but that doesn't mean that you cant try , maybe you get good result.... basically every pot work the same on all LG models.

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post #221 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

well let me tell you I decide to do the other two pots the VZB and VSC and my only word is ( wow )deeper black levels, is a very tricky process but the results are phenomenal...I think that Im having less issues because my tv is the same model of the german site is the pk550 ,im not sure how this procedure is going to works on other models.the model that are compatible with this tweak are the pk550,pk750 and pk950 there are some other models that can works too like the models from the same year from sams club or costco and bjs dont know the model numbers.if you try this tweak on other models that are not listed, you could have some problems here and there but that doesn't mean that you cant try , maybe you get good result.... basically every pot work the same on all LG models.

Different fron the results you posted with the screenshots? If so that would be pretty incredible as I could hardly see the screen in a dark room. If the same still very impressive.

Did you follow their entire procedure?
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post #222 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

well let me tell you I decide to do the other two pots the VZB and VSC and my only word is ( wow )deeper black levels, is a very tricky process but the results are phenomenal...I think that Im having less issues because my tv is the same model of the german site is the pk550 ,im not sure how this procedure is going to works on other models.the model that are compatible with this tweak are the pk550,pk750 and pk950 there are some other models that can works too like the models from the same year from sams club or costco and bjs dont know the model numbers.if you try this tweak on other models that are not listed, you could have some problems here and there but that doesn't mean that you cant try , maybe you get good result.... basically every pot work the same on all LG models.

Interesting because 100% of the black level is generated in the set-up and set-down (aka - reset) periods. VSC and VZB are bias usually in the address period IIRC. Maybe they are active in the reset for this model. (VSC - Y electrode) - (VZB - Z electrode)

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post #223 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Interesting because 100% of the black level is generated in the set-up and set-down (aka - reset) periods. VSC and VZB are bias usually in the address period IIRC. Maybe they are active in the reset for this model. (VSC - Y electrode) - (VZB - Z electrode)

setting vsc and vzb gave me more room for the set_down to go even lower with out noise on black screen aka dancing pixes.but I did have to go up on the set_up to fix some missfiringpixels on white screen but everything is fine right now.the blacks levels are even deeper than before.

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post #224 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Reading these posts my stock PX950 keeps getting lighter by the hour

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post #225 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

setting vsc and vzb gave me more room for the set_down to go even lower with out noise on black screen aka dancing pixes.but I did have to go up on the set_up to fix some missfiringpixels on white screen but everything is fine right now.the blacks levels are even deeper than before.

From the Manual
VSC Sets the amplitude of the complex waveform

(My interpretation with jargon from the manual)
Therefore it produces a proportionately larger waveform to play with, giving even more latitude for changing the amplitude of the Top Ramp of Reset with the Set-up, ditto for the pitch of the Bottom Ramp for Reset with the Set_down.

Makes sense?

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post #226 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 04:05 PM
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thats why I said that those settings are for the lg pk series model you will have to play around with the pots to get the results on other models.but basically all the pots work the same way.but maybe a little bit more or less in the turns of the pots.not sure im just following the directions of my particular model.

so far 24 hours pass with no increase in black levels.the black levels are real deep.

I will post pictures later.

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post #227 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 04:14 PM
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"Va" full throttle clockwise

Vy full throttle counterclockwise

"Set_Up" clockwise ( I did full throttle clockwise )

turn "Set_Dn" clockwise untill you get pixelmissfires. Turn a microamount counterclockwise untill you dont' get new pixelmissfires.


Ok...the above is exactly how I have my tweak on my PZ950 and have posted some pics a thread or 2 ago on how it looks.

I have never touched VSC and VZB so am curious as to what order and/or which way do these guys need to go to maximize Blacks?

Also, don't know if it's me or tv, but I feel as if pics may be slightly "duller" although blacks deeper. Which one is responsible for that? Or, is there a way to increase "contrast" even though I have all the way? I am looking for more pop. Can whites be brighter?
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post #228 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 04:37 PM
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I had to move the set_down back to stock. Anytime there is dark to bright scenes I'd get misfires, doesn't happen any other time.
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post #229 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 05:57 PM
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That's just awesome.
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post #230 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 06:01 PM
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Negative on the black bars. You're really onto something here. Thanks for the pictures and the steps. Hopefully this can be confirmed as stable settings for a lot of our sets. I'd love to get near that result on my PV450.
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post #231 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

From the Manual
VSC Sets the amplitude of the complex waveform

(My interpretation with jargon from the manual)
Therefore it produces a proportionately larger waveform to play with, giving even more latitude for changing the amplitude of the Top Ramp of Reset with the Set-up, ditto for the pitch of the Bottom Ramp for Reset with the Set_down.

Makes sense?

From the full waveforms from Lg that I have seen the Vsc and Vzb are bias voltages applied to the address scan portion of the waveform to prevent misfiring pixels. They could be referring to the address period as the "complex waveform". The Vzb is also applied to the Z electrode during ramp down of the reset waveform.

Unless I see a full waveform for each specific model I can't even properly speculate what each V pot does regarding panel discharge and black level.

One speculation I would make is that since the reset portion of the waveform generates black level then any pot that controls voltage on any electrode during this waveform period should have a direct impact on the black level and pixel control. I've seen full waveforms where Set-down,Set-Up,Va,Vs,Vy,Vzb are all applied to the electrodes during reset.

Any pot that controls voltage outside this period primarily should affect pixel control and possibly indirectly affect black level by altering the wall charge entering the reset stage. I've seen waveforms where -Vy, Va, Vz, Vsc are applied only to the electrodes during address, and Va,Vz,Vy,-Vy,Vzb are applied to both the reset and address periods.

Confusing.....

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post #232 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

black levels after the other two pots.

Can you see the black bars?

Gorgeous pictures but your full screen black (in a dark room no less) suggests your camera is exaggerating the black levels. That is of course unless you have managed zero black (i.e. - zero reset waveform)

Cheers

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post #233 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

Gorgeous pictures but your full screen black (in a dark room no less) suggests your camera is exaggerating the black levels. That is of course unless you have managed zero black (i.e. - zero reset waveform)

Cheers

well you are getting too technical and Im just enjoying my tv

This pictures are from a canon powershot SD790 digital elph 10.0 mp
all the pictures are take in the same environment and in auto mode to be more specific I will try to make a video but like I said before im just enjoying the movies with this awesome black levels and not getting too much in to the technical stuff.


But if you want to help on taking better pictures share a cam settings, I think the cam after this black level cant recognise the blacks in auto mode ,not sure I will play with the cam a little bit to see if I can take a fair picture.

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post #234 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

well you are getting too technical and Im just enjoying my tv

Hi losservatore

Just trying to piece the pieces of the puzzle together but you're doing a great job as it is, bravo!


Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

Reading these posts my stock PX950 keeps getting lighter by the hour


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post #235 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 08:10 PM
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I removed the pictures that I posted here showing the black level because I think like xrox
said the cam is not doing a fair job with the black levels in a full black screen,but I can honestly said that the black levels are awesome,I will play later with my cam to see if I can take a picture close to as natural as I can.

sorry my english is not that good.

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post #236 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

black levels after the other two pots.

How/which way did you adjust the other 2 pots?
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post #237 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derod68 View Post

How/which way did you adjust the other 2 pots?

I did exactly as the german website*
VZB eighth turn clockwise
VSC first turn counterclockwise until it stops and then a quarter turn clockwise


Clockwise


Counterclockwise




This is a eighth turn either way clockwise or counterclockwise




This a quarter turn either way clockwise or counterclockwise



rememer that Im just following the instructions from the german site Im not responsible for any damage. Do it at your own risk...

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post #238 of 1397 Old 11-28-2011, 10:42 PM
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I am really not trying to rain on our parade here, but what, if any, are the long term effects on our TV's after doing this??? I realize that not enough time has passed to be considered long term and would be speculation but it would be nice to know whether I have improved the performance of my TV only to have to buy a new one by new years...
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post #239 of 1397 Old 11-29-2011, 04:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by losservatore View Post

I did exactly as the german website*

Big thanks for the report and the pictures. One question, did you follow the steps after "Actually done, but you can still try further:" as well?
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post #240 of 1397 Old 11-29-2011, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post

I am really not trying to rain on our parade here, but what, if any, are the long term effects on our TV's after doing this??? I realize that not enough time has passed to be considered long term and would be speculation but it would be nice to know whether I have improved the performance of my TV only to have to buy a new one by new years...

Just in theory, but seeing the tweak is just lowering the black level and not increasing the brightness, the panel (plasma) life should remain the same, and the fact that the APL is lower there should be less heat generated extending the life of the set.
And those who were not happy with the original black levels will probably now hold on to their sets that much longer.

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