2012 Panasonic Plasmas??? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Old 12-25-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle-sas View Post


It is impossible that 26 fL equal to 37 fL!

The physics don't know that kind of phenomenon. If you are in the right, then ain't light meter in the world, which could measure the light emission of an Panasonic VT30 plasma screen. - They will certainly measure out my Samsung B550's brightness!

Purkinje effect describe the difference between sensations for red and blue in different lighting conditions. That's all.

The idea of 'Panasonic effects' exist only in the mind of in no way of me.

Believe you me!

You don't know what you are talking about. Its called ABL which all plasmas have and Panasonic's is unique.

The VT30 at this year's shootout was calibrated to 26fL yet was no brighter or dimmer than all other panels... whixh including LED LCDs. Flash back one year where the VT25 was actually calibrated to the same fL as all other panels and it was the brightest display on the wall. Reason??? Exactly what Ive already stated.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:57 AM
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After years of reading and posting in these forums, it still boggle's my mind that I stumble across threads where people question D-Nice... The guy has only been right about 99.99% of everything he's ever spoken about on this forum.
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Your wrong. Their driving method causes false measurement perception with standard window patterns. 26fL on the VT25 and especially 30 does not actually equate to 26fL. It's more like 37fL.

If one were to calibrate all three of those panels to 35fL with standard patterns, the VT25 and 30 will look brighter because of the above.

I see your point, but I can't really agree with you.

Panasonic's plasmas Aggressive Brightness Limiter (ABL) electric circuits dim their light output sheer, to remain within their power supplies capabilities.

Therefore using a 26 fL full-screen setting herein, aggrees with Samsung's 37 fL setting, uses Austere Brilliance Lowerer (ABL) circuitry.

True statement in case of an average picture content.

Watching the Winter Olympic Games, 26 Panasonic-fL equal to 37 Samsung-fL?

a
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:55 AM
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All this talk of improvements or not so much......I'm just holding off a bit to see how big they go. My 2009 65" is fine, BUT a new 75" screen? that is worth waiting for to me. Hoping........
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle-sas View Post

I see your point, but I can't really agree with you.

Panasonic's plasmas Aggressive Brightness Limiter (ABL) electric circuits dim their light output sheer, to remain within their power supplies capabilities.

Therefore using a 26 fL full-screen setting herein, aggrees with Samsung's 37 fL setting, uses Austere Brilliance Lowerer (ABL) circuitry.

True statement in case of an average picture content.

Watching the Winter Olympic Games, 26 Panasonic-fL equal to 37 Samsung-fL?

eagle-sas,

I'm not going to do the back and forth with you. You are welcome to believe what you choose. I, on the other hand, will stick the facts since I've seen and worked on more Panasonics and Samsungs than you have actually seen.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motovet View Post

All this talk of improvements or not so much......I'm just holding off a bit to see how big they go. My 2009 65" is fine, BUT a new 75" screen? that is worth waiting for to me. Hoping........

That's what I want to see. Bigger screens. Not because I want a large screen (Although it will be tempting to get a 70"), but because if Panasonic doesn't follow what other manufacturers are doing, their goose will be cooked.

Your average Joe at Best Buy will pick a 70" sharp lcd over a 65" panasonic plasma almost guaranteed.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:37 AM
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I can't imagine 70+ size plasma sets. Nothing better then watching tv and breaking out a little sweat at the same time!
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

eagle-sas,

I'm not going to do the back and forth with you. You are welcome to believe what you choose. I, on the other hand, will stick the facts since I've seen and worked on more Panasonics and Samsungs than you have actually seen.

Are these brightness discrepancies because of the way the reviewersn are measuring brightness, i.e. full screen white, vs. localized white?

Michael
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

Are these brightness discrepancies because of the way the reviewersn are measuring brightness, i.e. full screen white, vs. localized white?

Michael

Windowed patterns are used to measure PDPs. Yes, the size of windowed patterns have everything to do with the measured light output.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

That's what I want to see. Bigger screens. Not because I want a large screen (Although it will be tempting to get a 70"), but because if Panasonic doesn't follow what other manufacturers are doing, their goose will be cooked.

Your average Joe at Best Buy will pick a 70" sharp lcd over a 65" panasonic plasma almost guaranteed.

Your average Joe at BBY wants LED, regardless of the PQ in front of them, "OOOH, it' so bright!".... BBY's crappy loops of almost all white screens doesn't help either.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:03 AM
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Noticed this yet?
http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/exhib...own/index.html

Reading tea leaves on this teaser pic, combined with previous statements here that the forthcoming 2012 models will be brighter, one might come to the conclusion that the new plasmas (and/or LCDs) might be using 5 subpixels (orange/yellow/green/purple/cyan) instead of the common 3 (red/green/blue)...
They quite as well might NOT, of course.

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Old 12-29-2011, 11:55 AM
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If it comes in a 75" I'll be very happy either way!
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Windowed patterns are used to measure PDPs. Yes, the size of windowed patterns have everything to do with the measured light output.

These patterns, unless the so-called Automatic Brightness Limiting kick in.

All that changes the entire situation.

a
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motovet View Post

If it comes in a 75" I'll be very happy either way!

Flatpanelshd.com measured the calibrated 50VT30 power consumption.

2D mode (SD+HD): 173 watts.
3D mode: 204 watts.

Hdtvtest.co.uk measured alike the TX-P50VT30B.

Calibrated 2D mode: 183 watts.
Calibrated 3D mode: 248 watts.

Taken the smaller:

2D mode: 173 watts;
3D mode 204 watts.

If screen size 50", then the screen area 1068.2 sq-inches.

Power consumption/sq-inches:

2D mode: 0.162 watts;
3D mode: 0.191 watts.

Energy Star Ver. 5.3 requirement of maximum on mode power consumption: 108 watts.

If screen size 75", then the screen area 1068.2 x 75/50 sq-inches, equal to 1602.3 sq-inches.

108 watts/1602.3 sq-inches equal to 0.067 watts/sq-inches.

This equal to 50VT50 2D mode 41 %, 3D mode 35 %.

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Old 12-29-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism View Post

Your average Joe at BBY wants LED, regardless of the PQ in front of them, "OOOH, it' so bright!".... BBY's crappy loops of almost all white screens doesn't help either.

At low brightness level relative perception for various colors become different.

The good image quality needs enough brightness.

a
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyCyberguy View Post

Noticed this yet?
http://panasonic.net/avc/viera/exhib...own/index.html

Reading tea leaves on this teaser pic, combined with previous statements here that the forthcoming 2012 models will be brighter, one might come to the conclusion that the new plasmas (and/or LCDs) might be using 5 subpixels (orange/yellow/green/purple/cyan) instead of the common 3 (red/green/blue)...
They quite as well might NOT, of course.

Greets
SkyCyberguy

Optical efficiency quickly deteriorates with barrier rib accretion, accession. Yours 5-subpixel proposal results in dimmer screen.

a
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eagle-sas View Post

Optical efficiency quickly deteriorates with barrier rib accretion, accession. Yours 5-subpixel proposal results in dimmer screen.

Usually it should indeed.
But do we know what they have been brewing in their witches' kitchen?

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Old 12-29-2011, 06:33 PM
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I think the colors each represent a different aspect of the tv from a marketing point of view. Like green being ECO, another having to do with a picture quality parameter, ect. That's my take anyway.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by whipit View Post

I think the colors each represent a different aspect of the tv from a marketing point of view. Like green being ECO, another having to do with a picture quality parameter, ect. That's my take anyway.

Why don't Panasonic awards a prize for the hard work in puzzling out the five-colour enigma?

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Old 12-30-2011, 09:16 AM
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I realize this is waaaay OT, but bringing up 2 tv types, I've always wondered if you ever put meter to that little Sony OLED that came out a couple of years ago?

I'm guessing not many people want to cablibrate a 10inch display, but I wondered if someone with the TV store and you where interested enough to see how they read, or maybe even calibrated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

eagle-sas,

I'm not going to do the back and forth with you. You are welcome to believe what you choose. I, on the other hand, will stick the facts since I've seen and worked on more Panasonics and Samsungs than you have actually seen.


buytme
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

If someone wants a great TV right now, then yeah the VT30 is one of the best options right now. It's a great TV and a solid performer.......

But if i were looking to buy a flagship this late in the model year, i'd definitely wait a few months instead and then get the 2012 VT50 - from the limited info that is being released it already looks like it's going to be a bigger jump in performance over the VT30 than the VT30 was over the VT25.

The only reason to get a 2011 model right now is to save some money and/or get instant gratification. But if someone can wait and is willing to pay the early release prices he'll end up with the better TV that has been improved in several areas.

And it's entirely possible that the mid-level 2012 GT series will perform the same as or even outperform the VT30 - and for less money too. The end-of-production VT30s will still be available after the new mid-level models are released in the spring so if it turns out that the 2012 ST/GT models do not outperform the VT30, you can buy a VT30 at the the lowest prices since it was first released.

Kind of like the ST30 outperformed the GT25 in a few areas...

I've been chomping at the bit to move our 42" ST30 into the bedroom and get a 55" VT30 but since the CES is almost upon us I might wait and if I like what I see in the 2012 models, I may make a move this time next year instead.

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Old 12-30-2011, 11:49 AM
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CES 2012 is only 11 days away and the Panasonic Viera announcement is only 10 days away. The prices of the 2011 models aren't going to change much in the next 10 days. So if you're thinking of purchasing a 2011 model now, there's very little harm in waiting 10 days to see what the 2012 models are going to offer, and then deciding if you want a discounted 2011 model in January 2012 or you want to wait until April/May 2012 for a full price 2012 model.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

CES 2012 is only 11 days away and the Panasonic Viera announcement is only 10 days away. The prices of the 2011 models aren't going to change much in the next 10 days. So if you're thinking of purchasing a 2011 model now, there's very little harm in waiting 10 days to see what the 2012 models are going to offer, and then deciding if you want a discounted 2011 model in January 2012 or you want to wait until April/May 2012 for a full price 2012 model.

Totally agree. And, the newly announced models, esp the large ones usually are not released until late spring or early summer and last years models are then discounted through that period.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:52 PM
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A friend asked me about going to CES. Other than a new Panasonic Plasma or a new Oppo BR player I can't think of too much I want to see at CES. I haven't heard any info on new model Panasonics being shown at CES so I may pass this year. Hopefully someone will go early and let us know if there are any Panasonics worth getting excited about. I found the VT30 less of an improvement over the VT25 than I hoped for. I hope the VT35 is a significant improvement.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post

...I haven't heard any info on new model Panasonics being shown at CES so I may pass this year. Hopefully someone will go early and let us know if there are any Panasonics worth getting excited about. I found the VT30 less of an improvement over the VT25 than I hoped for. I hope the VT35 is a significant improvement.

The new VT is a VT50. The designer of the TV said it will be a much bigger improvement in performance over the VT30 than the VT30 was over the VT25, which sounds plausible since the panel is all-new for 2012 and has a new driving method. Time will tell. I'm curious how the new GT50 will compare to the GT30

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Old 12-30-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The new VT is a VT50. The designer of the TV said it will be a much bigger improvement in performance over the VT30 than the VT30 was over the VT25, which sounds plausible since the panel is all-new for 2012 and has a new driving method. Time will tell. I'm curious how the new GT50 will compare to the GT30

Thanks - I hadn't heard that the new model would be a VT50.
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:43 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think we will learn too much from CES? The insider at the other forum has already said all of the models may not be announced and little to no technical info, as well as no pricing or availability.

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Old 12-31-2011, 10:01 AM
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Hard to say if we'll learn anything at CES until it occurs. Maybe the insider is right but hopefully we'll see some of the new screens, we'll get details on the PQ, dimensions and or features even if we don't get the very detailed tech specs.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think we will learn too much from CES? The insider at the other forum has already said all of the models may not be announced and little to no technical info, as well as no pricing or availability.

At CES will everybody able to assess whether Panasonic did genuine development or not.

If the VT50's brightness come up to LED's brightness or beyond to those, then there have been notable happenings here lately. Otherwise nothing interesting.

The achievment of the LED's brightness is feasible only with a drastic improvement in the luminous efficacy. This contingent development lays the foundations of improved contrast ratio and black level, furthermore cuting production costs down.

The painters raw material is colour. The plasmas raw material is brightness.

a
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:45 AM
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It will be interesting at CES to see what each company comes out with, but sets won't street for months. Anybody and everybody who is lucky enough to attend CES, please hound the companies like Panasonic about issue free sets. If you go to CES, tell them about the green blob issues and pink tinting etc. and tell them you hope they clear up these problems.

I used the D-nice break-in slides and his post break-in settings and my 60ST30 is bright enough for me. The only time I thought it was dim was when I decided to watch a B movie (in my books)... my dvd copy of The Red Planet. For the first time, I found many scene's too dim. All other movies like NCFOM, Shaun of the Dead, The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada and Zombieland were all fine. I do watch my plasma at night and always will control my lighting. I come from front projection so controlling lighting is not a problem for me.

What I am interested to see, is whether Panasonic will be able to put out TV's in 2012 that meet or exceed the performance of the 2011 and either have no issues, or they fix whatever issue's are found, and quickly. Like many 2011 Panasonic TV owners, I am living with an ST30 which suffers from uniformity issues. On black and white films I can see pink tinting on the sides and on some content, black and white or not, I see vertical banding near the centre. So far it is very minimal and not an issue 99% of the time (knock on wood)...but if it gets worse, then I have a problem. For some people it gets worse, and for others, it stays the same or improves.

I am glad Panasonic fixed the Fl Br. issue in 2011. I have never seen it on my Nov. build 60ST30. The colour uniformity issue is a real issue that is causing too many people grief, so I hope it is eliminated on the new sets. Many people don't see it because they are colour blind, or they don't have their sets calibrated or set up with settings that show the issue. You usually only see it in dimmer shades of gray or near gray (tan, brown, off white etc).

I am keeping my set because I see no other alternative and for what I paid, I am gambling that it stays the same or improves. I will be keeping a close eye on the 2012 sets from all manufacturers this year. We need to impress on the viewers and calibrators out there to be on the watch for all these potential problems. I can't understand how the green blob and pink tinting issue was not seen by reviewers in 2011 unless production went bad later in the year, or there was cherry picking for reviewers.

The sooner more people see any problems, reviewers especially, the faster these issues will be resolved with the 2012 sets and future sets. If we don't make real issues a problem for the manufacturer, they just keep giving us product hoping we won't be bothered by any drawbacks. This has to stop. We pay good money for these sets. Sure there is a limit to how perfect sets can be, but issues of uniformity like we've seen here make plasma TV's look un-watchable and contradict the statements of what great picture quality we are told we will get with plasma TV's.

Newer and better features and performance are meaningless if issues bring down the viewing experience. Let's hope 2012 has better panels from all manufacturers, or that issues are brought to their attention and fixed quickly.
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