2012 Panasonic Plasmas??? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 601 Old 01-19-2012, 12:19 PM
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^^^ Plasma and LED Technology is pretty much maxed out. Baby steps from here on out.......

I am taking about over all picture quality. Nothing else. I mean the sets of the past 1-2 years are pretty darn sweet are they not ? Well see what happens, but I think for "the average user" they will not notice anything major. Of course here on AVS there are few average users
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post #182 of 601 Old 01-19-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ Plasma and LED Technology is pretty much maxed out. Baby steps from here on out.......

It seems the Sharp Elite technology still has potential...especially into lower priced LEDs over time.

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post #183 of 601 Old 01-19-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox View Post

LCD has color filters and polarizing layers that literally attenuate the incident light. Aside from front AR filters, light passing through the front glass of a PDP easily reflects off the barrier ribs, bus electrodes, phosphors and back of the cell. One way to improve this issue is to use black materials for cell strucutre (all manufacturers use some sort of black barrier rib coating). Unfortunately, any inclusion of black cell materials will reduce light output which PDP cannot afford to begin with.

10 lm/w or higher tech was supposed to provide the light output that would enable the use of black cell materials and a dark ND filter or color filters to give more of a LCD bright room look.

Panasonic actually has patents suggesting they want to put mirror like particles underneath the phosphors (bottom of cells) to increase light output. I would see this worsening the reflectance issue.

Great post, Xrox. Thanks for the info.
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post #184 of 601 Old 01-19-2012, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Cardo View Post

Sad to read this morning from Panasonic's insider (from that other forum) he provided a 5-6 year path before plasma is discontinued - phased out

Maybe this is the reason of such small incremental changes from one generation to the other... OLED will be taking over the market

It's like intel microprocessors, they already have it all planned for the next 15 years... Call me fool but I wasn't happy reading that sentences...

That's not what he said and not what he meant - he didn't state that Plasma would be discontinued in 5-6 years.

He was responding to a question asking that if Panasonic gets an OLED to market if that spelled the end for Plasma, but he agreed with Samsung's estimate that Plasmas will be around until at least the year 2020, unless OLED or other technologies can be made cheaply and can sell. You said something about plasma being phased out in 5 years and his response was that it would be a gradual phasing out, and it would take longer than 5 years, and like he said earlier that would only be so if OLED was able to be made cheaply and if there was a market for it.

But even if Panasonic brings OLED to market in the next few years and it turns out to be a viable replacement for Plasma earlier than they thought then what would be so bad about Plasma being replaced by a superior technology? I could even envision in 3-5 years Panasonic making OLEDs as their high-end product but continuing making Plasmas, but cutting it down to 2 or 3 series and only in the 50"-70" range. It's possible to offer LCDs, Plasmas, and OLEDs providing there's a market for all three. There was a period when Panasonic was making tube TVs, Rear Projection TVs, LCD TVs, and Plasma TVs all at the same time so now they're down from 4 to 2 technologies. Why not add a 3rd (OLED) and keep their hand in all three technologies if it can be profitable?

Big Plasmas are relatively cheap to make per inch of screen size and it's a mature tech that's already paid for itself.

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post #185 of 601 Old 01-19-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

That's not what he said and not what he meant - he didn't state that Plasma would be discontinued in 5-6 years.

He was responding to a question asking that if Panasonic gets an OLED to market if that spelled the end for Plasma, but he agreed with Samsung's estimate that Plasmas will be around until at least the year 2020, unless OLED or other technologies can be made cheaply and can sell. You said something about plasma being phased out in 5 years and his response was that it would be a gradual phasing out, and it would take longer than 5 years, and like he said earlier that would only be so if OLED was able to be made cheaply and if there was a market for it.

But even if Panasonic brings OLED to market in the next few years and it turns out to be a viable replacement for Plasma earlier than they thought then what would be so bad about Plasma being replaced by a superior technology? I could even envision in 3-5 years Panasonic making OLEDs as their high-end product but continuing making Plasmas, but cutting it down to 2 or 3 series and only in the 50"-70" range. It's possible to offer LCDs, Plasmas, and OLEDs providing there's a market for all three. There was a period when Panasonic was making tube TVs, Rear Projection TVs, LCD TVs, and Plasma TVs all at the same time so now they're down from 4 to 2 technologies. Why not add a 3rd (OLED) and keep their hand in all three technologies if it can be profitable?

Big Plasmas are relatively cheap to make per inch of screen size and it's a mature tech that's already paid for itself.

I hope it happens like that!
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post #186 of 601 Old 01-19-2012, 09:33 PM
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^^^ As per my previous post... not surprising and you don't have to be an insider to read the writings on the wall:

Quote:
Originally Posted by specuvestor View Post

Panny is the only one spending $ on plasma in the past 3 years. Sammy & LG are just "milking" it... their plasma fabs were more or less totally depreciated late 2010.

That is why Panny closing their new P5 rather than older and smaller P4 speaks volume on their view for this tech. Not saying plasma will disappear this decade but we have to be realistic how much R&D will be invested into this tech.

IMHO the 3 tech can co-exist in this decade... not so sure about DLP or projectors though
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post #187 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

That's not what he said and not what he meant - he didn't state that Plasma would be discontinued in 5-6 years.

He was responding to a question asking that if Panasonic gets an OLED to market if that spelled the end for Plasma, but he agreed with Samsung's estimate that Plasmas will be around until at least the year 2020, unless OLED or other technologies can be made cheaply and can sell. You said something about plasma being phased out in 5 years and his response was that it would be a gradual phasing out, and it would take longer than 5 years, and like he said earlier that would only be so if OLED was able to be made cheaply and if there was a market for it.

But even if Panasonic brings OLED to market in the next few years and it turns out to be a viable replacement for Plasma earlier than they thought then what would be so bad about Plasma being replaced by a superior technology? I could even envision in 3-5 years Panasonic making OLEDs as their high-end product but continuing making Plasmas, but cutting it down to 2 or 3 series and only in the 50"-70" range. It's possible to offer LCDs, Plasmas, and OLEDs providing there's a market for all three. There was a period when Panasonic was making tube TVs, Rear Projection TVs, LCD TVs, and Plasma TVs all at the same time so now they're down from 4 to 2 technologies. Why not add a 3rd (OLED) and keep their hand in all three technologies if it can be profitable?

Big Plasmas are relatively cheap to make per inch of screen size and it's a mature tech that's already paid for itself.

Totally agree. OLED is an extremely high end and expensive technology right now with much promise and many advantages over plasma (panel life is one that still lags though and maybe there are some other disadvantages that we aren't even aware of yet, but those will be licked too). The commoditization of high-end technology is a given and OLED prices will gradually drift down to an affordable price range for the masses as yields, volumes and the technology further improves, while Plasma will drift down further in price especially, as you say, since the technology has already been paid for. For sure manufacturers will want to milk their sunk costs as long as they can in order to enjoy a high return on their investment in the technology in past years. And, at a price lower than OLED, plasma will undoubtedly have a price/value point that appeals to purchasers.

I can see plasma eventually being phased out at the low end and other technologies filling in at the high end as OLED becomes mainstream. But, I see a good 10 years left before we can hardly find plasma available in a retailer any more.
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post #188 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 12:34 PM
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Or Oled will eventually die. Betamax lost if you remember.
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post #189 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ Plasma ... is pretty much maxed out. Baby steps from here on out.......

Chris,

I assume you were at CES and saw the 50 series Panasonics. Did the baby steps start with what you saw of the 50s (compared to the 30s), or are you referring to what is likely after the 50 series and compared to it?

Thanks,

Wes
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post #190 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wsokolosky View Post

Chris,

I assume you were at CES and saw the 50 series Panasonics. Did the baby steps start with what you saw of the 50s (compared to the 30s), or are you referring to what is likely after the 50 series and compared to it?

I'm not Chris, but the 50 series is a very solid step up from the 30 series. I'm not sure why some people aren't enthusiastic, but the all-new panel design pays some obvious dividends.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #191 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 02:37 PM
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I guess I should have explained better:

I am taking about over all picture quality. Nothing else. I mean the sets of the past 1-2 years are pretty darn sweet are they not ? Well see what happens, but I think for "the average user" they will not notice anything major. Of course here on AVS there are few average users


Yes I was at CES. The new units have great changes. Design is thinner, weighs less, cooler apps, and has a sweet bezel. We will see in a few months if the picture Quality is any better, to hard to tell at CES.
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post #192 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducato View Post

Or Oled will eventually die. Betamax lost if you remember.

The medium on which source material is recorded and then supplied to a display is a totally different animal from the display itself. Betamax lost for a very good reason. It's not like OLED is changing the fact that it is high-res colour picture displayed on a screen. Betamax was trying to change what the source material was.
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post #193 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 03:37 PM
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i am sure panasonic pro plasama tech from them would come down to the consumer market in some form \\.

we will see what the new vx200 coming out this falll can do.
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post #194 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by eonibm View Post

Betamax was trying to change what the source material was.

Don't understand sorry...

Anyway my point was it's not because a tech is better that it's necessarily gonna make it over the other in the future.
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post #195 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Yes I was at CES. The new units have great changes. Design is thinner, weighs less, cooler apps, and has a sweet bezel. We will see in a few months if the picture Quality is any better, to hard to tell at CES.

See, I'm confident the 2012 Panasonics will have visibly better picture quality. The specific changes implemented are likely to help meaningfully this time around; the panel is really all new.

Maybe I'll be disappointed, but I liked what I saw enough to feel it was a bona fide upgrade.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #196 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 05:31 PM
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post #197 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 07:18 PM
 
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Lol, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
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post #198 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 10:40 PM
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Will the ST30's still be being sold along side the ST50's. I want a 50in. but want to save some cash. I'm a broke college student.
The price went up on all sites I've checked. To all the really experienced members here I have a question. What should be my strategy to get the best deal. I'm learning about price matching. Should I truly just wait for the 50ST50 to be released...wait for reviews and pricing, then pull the trigger? I talked to a Panny rep and he said that late Feb. is looking solid for a release on many of the ST50 line-up. Thanks in advance!
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post #199 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by m4bama View Post

i am sure panasonic pro plasama tech from them would come down to the consumer market in some form \\.

we will see what the new vx200 coming out this falll can do.

what is the new vx200???
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post #200 of 601 Old 01-20-2012, 11:48 PM
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That looks like a mispost. The VX300 (the replacemnt to the VX200) came out a few months ago. http://panasonic.net/prodisplays/pro...ema/vx300.html

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post #201 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maturus View Post

Will the ST30's still be being sold along side the ST50's. I want a 50in. but want to save some cash. I'm a broke college student.
The price went up on all sites I've checked. To all the really experienced members here I have a question. What should be my strategy to get the best deal. I'm learning about price matching. Should I truly just wait for the 50ST50 to be released...wait for reviews and pricing, then pull the trigger? I talked to a Panny rep and he said that late Feb. is looking solid for a release on many of the ST50 line-up. Thanks in advance!

Well, if you're a broke college student, you may want to go ahead and get a 50ST30 on clearance while they are still available. The newer ST50s will be a bit pricey the first few months of release, with only moderate price reductions through the summer. Better prices will come after Labor Day, and of course, Black Friday and the holidays. At one point, the 50" was down to $899, but they've gone back up again. Check Feb. sales and Superbowl weekend.
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post #202 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 07:01 AM
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Don't know if this is a sign or not of the current 2011 models starting to thin out. We're going to day to B.B to "look" so the wife can see first hand the sets, look at 3D (we've never had it before) and visualize the sizes. We currently have a broken Sony that's 52" so it'll be between the 50", 51 and 55".

I pulled up B.B site to see if and what sets they actully have in store and it's about neal to nothing. I pulled up 55" and 60" ST, GT and even the VT series and out of all that probably two or three sets total in a 50mile radius. But itdidn't stop at the Panny'...Same with current some current Samsangs and even one Sony...55" NX720...almost nothing on hand. it's like everything in the 50" to 60" range and even 46" is getting thin. I can't imagine what's it going to be like with Super Bowl week coming up.
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post #203 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I'm not Chris, but the 50 series is a very solid step up from the 30 series. I'm not sure why some people aren't enthusiastic, but the all-new panel design pays some obvious dividends.

I was just wondering what besides the cosmetics of these TVs makes them a solid step up? I know you are one of the few around here who have actually seen them so I am curious.

The 101 is soooo very nice!!!
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post #204 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 08:58 AM
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From "my" point of view, we have to wait and see and test the actual production model. The Panel is supposed to be all new from top to bottom. It should be better, we are told it will be better........we will see.......
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post #205 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 09:32 AM
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I think they will be incrementally better, but not earth shattering better. D-Nice seemed to allude to this, as well, as he's been spot on with everything regarding Panasonic lately. This new design was probably done more from a cost-saving, manufacturing perspective versus just performance, but it should be a better set all of the way around. Just keep expectations realistic. I've got my eye on one as I am sending back my 65ST30 because of pink tint and phosphor trailing.

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post #206 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

That looks like a mispost. The VX300 (the replacemnt to the VX200) came out a few months ago. http://panasonic.net/prodisplays/pro...ema/vx300.html

no the VX200 cover the bigger sizes a new 85vx200 will be out this fall.

anyway interesting to seee all teh tech porn come out.
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post #207 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

From "my" point of view, we have to wait and see and test the actual production model. The Panel is supposed to be all new from top to bottom. It should be better, we are told it will be better........we will see.......

Do you gets get a early sample to test out?

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post #208 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I think they will be incrementally better, but not earth shattering better. D-Nice seemed to allude to this, as well, as he's been spot on with everything regarding Panasonic lately. This new design was probably done more from a cost-saving, manufacturing perspective versus just performance, but it should be a better set all of the way around. Just keep expectations realistic. I've got my eye on one as I am sending back my 65ST30 because of pink tint and phosphor trailing.

Yup, D-Nice doesn't get the credit he deserves. Considering the crap that gets thrown at him, especially from some "other" places he used to hang out at.

Sending back my second 65VT30 on Mon or Tues. And will be calling/E-mailing to Panny Corp. to file a HR complaint too.

Dim picture makes dingy whites and burgundy reds. Sounds like they "might" have tech'ed around it, we'll see. 50% brighter on 20% of the screen maybe means 10-15% brighter overall? That would be good for me.

As far as the disappearing VT30 inventory, well that may be true for NEW ones, but there are plenty of re-conditioned/closeout/"like-new"/used VT's from returns at even BETTER prices. Just hit the big A and see; one new and 15 used options.

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post #209 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

Well, if you're a broke college student, you may want to go ahead and get a 50ST30 on clearance while they are still available. The newer ST50s will be a bit pricey the first few months of release, with only moderate price reductions through the summer. Better prices will come after Labor Day, and of course, Black Friday and the holidays. At one point, the 50" was down to $899, but they've gone back up again. Check Feb. sales and Superbowl weekend.

I hope there are still some around by then
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post #210 of 601 Old 01-21-2012, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m4bama View Post

no the VX200 cover the bigger sizes a new 85vx200 will be out this fall.

Speculation or do you some specific info regarding this? What about an updated version of the non 3D Pro 85"- the TH-85PF12U? This is an older model and presumably more in need of updating.
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