Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post


My reply was to CatBrat as I though you would know since you stated you had the equipment.

I don't think the software will unlock the ISF modes either as the software doesn't actually interface with the monitor. I would be surprised if that will actually work.

It *can* interface with specific TVs, including the VT30 and VT50- but my understanding is that that's only with an upgraded license. Pretty bothersome, as the software is already $200 :/

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Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

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post #992 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Heartquake View Post

Who said that I thought you were speaking of black levels?!? I meant general performance.

Whatever, it's very hard to convince me from now on spend more bucks on GT & VT series. (I didn't write this directly to you D-Nice, just MHO)

The black level comment should not have been in that post (was ment for another forum). I deleted that sentence.
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post #993 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

I'm not so sure it has anything to do with the THX mode. Their review of the GT50 shows the THX modes going very bright! I'm wondering if it has to do with the different filter on the VT. Maybe they are sacrificing light output to achieve better black levels?

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Originally Posted by Orso View Post

- EU GT&VT50 got 2 "Pro" picture modes that can be unlocked via a simple option available in the setup menu. Think of them as 2 picture modes just like the US "custom" one except they are pre-calibrated and their panel brightness setting is locked at low, hence the brightness cap. These 2 Pro modes can be renamed to "isf day" and "isf night" but the available settings remain the same (meaning no panel brightness setting).

-US VT50 got 2 isf picture modes that can be unlocked by a calibrator or an end user with a dedicated proggy/remote control code. Panel brightness setting is available so no need to worry.

TLDNR : chill out, no cap in US.

I'm going to attempt to "chill" here Orso, but are you suggesting we need to pay for calibration to get access to this control? May cause one to reconsider buying options.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #994 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I'm going to attempt to "chill" here Orso, but are you suggesting we need to pay for calibration to get access to this control? May cause one to reconsider buying options.

It depends on which model you plan to purchase (VT or GT) and what you are planning to do calibration wise.

- The freely available "Custom" picture mode will give you access to the advanced picture settings on both models (2pt white balance, gamma presets, CMS and panel brightness for the GT50 ; 2pt & 10point WB, 10pt gamma, gamma presets, CMS and panel brightness for the VT50).

- You can also calibrate Cinema, THX and THX day modes white balance (2 pt) using the service menu (everything else is locked).

- But if you want or need 2 fully tweakable picture modes, You'll need an "unlocked" VT. To unlock the isf modes, you can hire someone or you can do it yourself by buying a calibration proggy with the appropriate licence (the cheapest one will prolly be controlcal). Atm there is no free proggy available and remote control secret codes did not leak out.
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post #995 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orso View Post


It depends on which model you plan to purchase (VT or GT) and what you are planning to do calibration wise.

- The freely available "Custom" picture mode will give you access to the advanced picture settings on both models (2pt white balance, gamma presets, CMS and panel brightness for the GT50 ; 2pt & 10point WB, 10pt gamma, gamma presets, CMS and panel brightness for the VT50).

- You can also calibrate Cinema, THX and THX night modes white balance (2 pt) using the service menu (everything else is locked).

- But if you want or need 2 fully tweakable picture modes, You'll need an "unlocked" VT. To unlock the isf modes, you can hire someone or you can do it yourself by buying a calibration proggy with the appropriate licence (the cheapest one will prolly be controlcal). Atm there is no free proggy available and remote control secret codes did not leak out.

Thanks for the info. First time I've seen it all spelled out completely! What are your sources, if you don't mind my asking?

The VT30 remote codes leaked out. Can we assume the same will happen eventually for the VT50? Regardless, as long as there is one fully custom mode I'll be happy.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

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Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

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post #996 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

SD looks terrible, HD varies from channel to channel and even commercial to commercial by a pretty wide margin I don't think its a cable problem, why would the issue not exist on my Pioneer? Clean feeds look incredible. I think I got used to Pioneer's superb processing and just took it for granted.

Yeah, sounds like a processing issue. All the 2011 pannys I have seem to present the image exactly as it is. Great looks great and bad looks terrible. There's a reason those pioneers were so expensive. You really can't even buy a quality VP for under a thousand, so obviously Panasonic's not going to be placing them in their TVs like the Kuros did.
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post #997 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orso View Post

- EU GT&VT50 got 2 "Pro" picture modes that can be unlocked via a simple option available in the setup menu. Think of them as 2 picture modes just like the US "custom" one except they are pre-calibrated and their panel brightness setting is locked at low, hence the brightness cap. These 2 Pro modes can be renamed to "isf day" and "isf night" but the available settings remain the same (meaning no panel brightness setting).

-US VT50 got 2 isf picture modes that can be unlocked by a calibrator or an end user with a dedicated proggy/remote control code. Panel brightness setting is available so no need to worry.

TLDNR : chill out, no cap in US.

So then the US GT50 will not have any panel brightness cap on their modes then?
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post #998 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 01:49 PM
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The VT50's are already ISF calibrated from factory so why would anyone need to unlock codes to change settings? Doesn't this defeat the purposes of paying the extra money for the VT50.
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post #999 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pdhdtv View Post

The VT50's are already ISF calibrated from factory so why would anyone need to unlock codes to change settings? Doesn't this defeat the purposes of paying the extra money for the VT50.

2 reasons :
- by default, the isf modes are hidden. You first need a proggy to activate them/for them to appear in the picture modes list.
- the factory pre-calibration process is kinda rough. Picture quality wise, isf modes at default settings are at best on par with the THX certified mode. But since isf modes got advanced picture settings, a pro or DIY calibrator can tweak them even further (even better WB, gamma tracking, custom light output target etc...).
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post #1000 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Orso View Post

2 reasons :
- by default, the isf modes are hidden. You first need a proggy to activate them/for them to appear in the picture modes list.
- the factory pre-calibration process is kinda rough. Picture quality wise, isf modes at default settings are at best on par with the THX certified mode. But since isf modes got advanced picture settings, a pro or DIY calibrator can tweak them even further (even better WB, gamma tracking, custom light output target etc...).

Might as well get the GT50, and even still it remains to be seen if the GT has better picture quality than a calibrated ST50.
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post #1001 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrVizio View Post

Yeah, sounds like a processing issue. All the 2011 pannys I have seem to present the image exactly as it is. Great looks great and bad looks terrible. There's a reason those pioneers were so expensive. You really can't even buy a quality VP for under a thousand, so obviously Panasonic's not going to be placing them in their TVs like the Kuros did.

In terms of image detail I understand that but I don't think I'd have the same issues ith some channels being washed out. I think that has to do some with the source and maybe a lot with how LED/LCD works since the LED behind a dark basketball uniform won't turn off for example. Or a black chair will be grey because the LED is still on for the surrounding content if that makes sense.

I'm strongly leaning towards returning the 929 and holding tight for a month until the 55VT50 makes an appearance. It appears it'll have black levels of .002ft/l? This is a pretty impressive number and I believe Panasonic fixed their rising black problem last year?
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post #1002 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdhdtv View Post

The VT50's are already ISF calibrated from factory so why would anyone need to unlock codes to change settings? Doesn't this defeat the purposes of paying the extra money for the VT50.

I don't think they're ISF Calibrated at the Factory.

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post #1003 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 07:15 PM
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D-Nice I just read this whole thread and three others on various forums. Do you know if there will be any differences between the VT and lower lines other than the black filter? I've read conflicting information about phosphers being different, processing being different, color systems etc etc etc...

I'm returning this 929 tomorrow and going to hold out for something else. I'm interested in the VT50 but literally don't want to pay for nothing. I will pay for better black levels, color, processing etc...especially as picky as I am, I probably will notice the difference if one exists.
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post #1004 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

I don't think they're ISF Calibrated at the Factory.

I was wondering about this post as well, it just doesn't make sense to me. Why would they pre-calibrate these sets and risk more humiliation. Gary
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post #1005 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

D-Nice I just read this whole thread and three others on various forums. Do you know if there will be any differences between the VT and lower lines other than the black filter? I've read conflicting information about phosphers being different, processing being different, color systems etc etc etc...

Same panel. Different filters and software. Electronics are different here and there.
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post #1006 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Same panel. Different filters and software. Electronics are different here and there.

In my experience software can make a big difference in the way hardware functions. Do you think the VT is worth considering? I know you mentioned the GT may not be worth the money to some viewers given how good the ST is.

Is the VT going to be a different animal due to the software? or is it too early to know? I realize the VT isn't out so you may not have much if any real hands on with it yet...
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post #1007 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 08:12 PM
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The control set on the VT makes it a different animal compared to the ST and GT. The 10 point grayscale/gamma and 3D CMS allow a calibrator to dial the display in to near perfection.

If you do not care to have all of your dE below 1, get the ST. Otherwise get the VT.

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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

In my experience software can make a big difference in the way hardware functions. Do you think the VT is worth considering? I know you mentioned the GT may not be worth the money to some viewers given how good the ST is.

Is the VT going to be a different animal due to the software? or is it too early to know? I realize the VT isn't out so you may not have much if any real hands on with it yet...

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post #1008 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The control set on the VT makes it a different animal compared to the ST and GT. The 10 point grayscale/gamma and 3D CMS allow a calibrator to dial the display in to near perfection.

If you do not care to have all of your dE below 1, get the ST. Otherwise get the VT.

You've been a tremendous help to me in the past and this board. I used your settings to dial in my KURO and then used two calibration discs and your recommended settings were DEAD on. I have used your recommended Panasonic settings to dial in family and friends sets and then use my calibration discs to polish them up for any variances that occur in the internal electronics and your settings are almost always dead on. So once you get your hands on a VT, I'll use that as a starting point and correct for any display variance that I may have.

Hopefully I have better luck going to a VT from my 5080 then I did the 929...otherwise I'll send it back...hoping to have something before the olympics.
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post #1009 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 08:20 PM
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I'm almost positive you will be happy with the VT50

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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

You've been a tremendous help to me in the past and this board. I used your settings to dial in my KURO and then used two calibration discs and your recommended settings were DEAD on. I have used your recommended Panasonic settings to dial in family and friends sets and then use my calibration discs to polish them up for any variances that occur in the internal electronics and your settings are almost always dead on. So once you get your hands on a VT, I'll use that as a starting point and correct for any display variance that I may have.

Hopefully I have better luck going to a VT from my 5080 then I did the 929...otherwise I'll send it back...hoping to have something before the olympics.

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post #1010 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I'm almost positive you will be happy with the VT50

BTW, I just watched the video posted earlier...good to put a face with the online name

Thank you again for all your help both now and in the past. You may not remember but you told me to go for the 5080 and it has served me fantastically well for four solid years now. Everyone who comes over is like "man this TV looks fantastic"...
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post #1011 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The control set on the VT makes it a different animal compared to the ST and GT. The 10 point grayscale/gamma and 3D CMS allow a calibrator to dial the display in to near perfection.

If you do not care to have all of your dE below 1, get the ST. Otherwise get the VT.

You may have mentioned this elsewhere but would you please describe the pros and cons of the ST Vs. the GT. I, and I'm sure others would like to know if there is a significant benifet to spending the extra $$$ to step up to the GT model.

Thanks
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post #1012 of 1640 Old 04-05-2012, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by rugdocta View Post

You may have mentioned this elsewhere but would you please describe the pros and cons of the ST Vs. the GT. I, and I'm sure others would like to know if there is a significant benifet to spending the extra $$$ to step up to the GT model.

I will weigh in with a "no". I believe D-Nice may have weighed in with a "no" elsewhere as well, but regardless it hardly seems worth it.

If you can step up to a VT, it might be a different equation.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1013 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 01:00 AM
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Can anyone do a comparison between the P65ST50 vs P65VT30?

I need help making a decision and it seems the price will be pretty similar (can get the VT under $2,400).
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post #1014 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 04:39 AM
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Does the vt50 have a matte screen? Saw the st and did not like how reflective the screen was. Anybody remember from CES?
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post #1015 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by LC46D92U View Post

Can anyone do a comparison between the P65ST50 vs P65VT30?

I need help making a decision and it seems the price will be pretty similar (can get the VT under $2,400).

Here's a comparison of the VT, GT, and ST from Panasonic's web site
http://shop.panasonic.com/compare/?i...Nbr=TC-P65ST50

Mike

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post #1016 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 05:06 AM
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D-Nice, if you have the GT50 can you tell me if the shadow details are better or the same when compared to the ST50?

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post #1017 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 05:42 AM
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Well, it's been a week now and the picture on my 50ST50 is absolutely stunning. Did a basic calibration and am well pleased. Then thought I would monitor the power usage while watching normal TV with brightness (75) and contrast (65). The wattage used between 118-120 watts. This set uses less wattage than my Sony 40" LCD. All this time these sets were suppose to be power grabbers, not this one. AWESOME TV!
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post #1018 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by LC46D92U View Post

Can anyone do a comparison between the P65ST50 vs P65VT30?

I need help making a decision and it seems the price will be pretty similar (can get the VT under $2,400).

They did on cnet if you look at the ST50 review. My interpretation of the review was that the ST50 was just as good as the VT30 and better in some areas like brightness. I would go for the ST50.
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...2010AuxPromo.0
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post #1019 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 07:12 AM
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Guys, what about 96hz vs 48hz cinematic playback.. I've read for a couple of years that there are some issues with 48hz flickering when watching BDs and non issue with 96hz on previous models. Is it still an issue on ST and GT models?
Like many I'm tossing the idea of ST vs VT but if it's not an issue when watching BD's than it's a point towards ST.

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post #1020 of 1640 Old 04-06-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

The control set on the VT makes it a different animal compared to the ST and GT. The 10 point grayscale/gamma and 3D CMS allow a calibrator to dial the display in to near perfection.

If you do not care to have all of your dE below 1, get the ST. Otherwise get the VT.

Will the VT have less banding and smoother grayscale?

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