Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 1640 Old 04-25-2012, 05:55 PM
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What a dolt. Must have way too much free time on his hands.
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post #1292 of 1640 Old 04-25-2012, 06:17 PM
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Yup, it's the wrong thing to do. Return policies weren't meant to provide free interim "rentals."

One can change one's mind, and a generous policy would cover that. One can find defects, and most policies should cover that. One can upgrade speakers, but I've never seen this policy applied to anything but speakers. But even then, upgrade policies are supposed to mean you give something a serious shot, then one makes a serious upgrade. This is too premeditated and 'user' to be the right thing to do....
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post #1293 of 1640 Old 04-25-2012, 06:32 PM
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I can't wait for serious reviews to examine differences between the VT, GT, and ST. As is, there have been a few serious views of some models, but even these few data points generate a 'sense of the forum' that is echoed by many, but known by few.

For example, what will the 96khz mean for the VT? (seemingly the only substantive image quality difference for those of us who HTs are in the basement - the remote and aesthetics might still be worth it, but still....)

Like Aqua said above: "Does anybody know if the VT50 is worth the upgrade from the GT? Is the IQ much better? Does 96khz 1080p make much of a difference over 60hz? Is the screen much less reflective in sunlight than the GT?"

What do the specific differences mean between models? Plenty of them posted in threads (different louvers, dual vs not processors, thx mode, etc). Seems like thx is quite a bump up, so why do people ID the ST as the sweet spot for budgets and not the GT? I know the sets aren't out there yet, but to me, these are the questions I'm asking before I buy.

Thanks
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post #1294 of 1640 Old 04-25-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mandrake View Post

I can't wait for serious reviews to examine differences between the VT, GT, and ST. As is, there have been a few serious views of some models, but even these few data points generate a 'sense of the forum' that is echoed by many, but known by few.

For example, what will the 96khz mean for the VT? (seemingly the only substantive image quality difference for those of us who HTs are in the basement - the remote and aesthetics might still be worth it, but still....)

Like Aqua said above: "Does anybody know if the VT50 is worth the upgrade from the GT? Is the IQ much better? Does 96khz 1080p make much of a difference over 60hz? Is the screen much less reflective in sunlight than the GT?"

What do the specific differences mean between models? Plenty of them posted in threads (different louvers, dual vs not processors, thx mode, etc). Seems like thx is quite a bump up, so why do people ID the ST as the sweet spot for budgets and not the GT? I know the sets aren't out there yet, but to me, these are the questions I'm asking before I buy.

Thanks

96Hz sampling of 24Hz material matters only in that it's a multiple of 24, so to some people it'll give a more "film-like look", but this only matters for 24p Blu-rays really. With television and video games, it's a complete non-factor. 48 Hz doesn't work well, at least with Plasmas, as they induce a very noticeable flicker due to the way Plasma works (vs. LCD, which one could say "updates" an image vs "refreshes" as Plasmas/CRTs do). Therefore, 48 Hz is a rather useless mode in the GT. Kind of silly for them to even include it, or not include 96 Hz.

But even with that, is 96 Hz really a big deal? No. The TV can handle the film cadences and convert to 60 Hz fine. Most reviewers at least seem to claim that they don't notice a big difference.

As for ST vs GT, I think people eye the ST as the better bang for the buck since the panels are more or less identical and the features that the GT adds are not all that great. If the GT had 10p WB and CMS adjustments, that might be a different story, but you need to go all the way to the VT for those.

Honestly, I wish Panasonic began to cut down on the number of variants. We had 4 this year in plasma alone, when I think they really needed only two (ST and VT).

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

Post 1 - Post 2 - Post 3

 

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post #1295 of 1640 Old 04-25-2012, 11:14 PM
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Let me echo the Greek chorus here that I find the behavior of this intentional "buy and return" attitude to be beyond reprehensible. It's people like you that drive up the costs of returns for honest customers.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1296 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 08:47 AM
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Well I've had 2 UT50's replaced, and returning this one. Will keep playing the lottery until I get a panel without noticeable vertical bands, or green discoloration on grey slides
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post #1297 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pakotlar View Post

Well I've had 2 UT50's replaced, and returning this one. Will keep playing the lottery until I get a panel without noticeable vertical bands, or green discoloration on grey slides

Shhh. The ethics police are watching.

consider the source
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post #1298 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian s View Post


Shhh. The ethics police are watching.

No need to be a DB, adrian. Pretty sure nobody had a problem with someone who returns a TV with a real defect.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

Post 1 - Post 2 - Post 3

 

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post #1299 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 09:11 AM
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Well my 60ST50 has a defective stand as well as several dead pixels. I was planning on returning it or do I need to clear it with the court first?

consider the source
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post #1300 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

Well my 60ST50 has a defective stand as well as several dead pixels. I was planning on returning it or do I need to clear it with the court first?

See Tempest's post, above.

Why do you feel you have an axe to grind? It's pretty clear that everyone agrees it's perfectly acceptable to return a defective product.
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post #1301 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kermit26.2 View Post


See Tempest's post, above.

Why do you feel you have an axe to grind? It's pretty clear that everyone agrees it's perfectly acceptable to return a defective product.

My apologies. Back on topic.

consider the source
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post #1302 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 09:25 AM
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What is the cheapest you can find a brand new Panasonic 85-inch for?

Are 85-inchers cheaper now than when they were first produced?

Are there prices dropping any?
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post #1303 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post


But even with that, is 96 Hz really a big deal? No. The TV can handle the film cadences and convert to 60 Hz fine. Most reviewers at least seem to claim that they don't notice a big difference.

Personally, I don't like the way the ST converts 24fps material to 60 Hz as I feel Panasonic is using motion interpolation to correct the cadence (I notice a minor soap opera effect.) However, it's still pretty much a non-issue as every blu-ray player should be able to handle the conversion well. You really can't screw up simple frame repetition in a 2:3 pattern.
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post #1304 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

What is the cheapest you can find a brand new Panasonic 85-inch for?

Are 85-inchers cheaper now than when they were first produced?

Are there prices dropping any?

Might be worth a brief look at this:

https://clevelandplasma.com/store/pl...nic_th_85vx200

Chris at Cleveland plasma is a Forum Sponsor, and very knowledgeable.

Wes
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post #1305 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 10:37 AM
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Speaking of returning a TV. Has anyone ever bought and returned a TV from Amazon? Doesn't Amazon just buy direct from Panasonic?

What is Amazon's return policy like?
Do they reimburse you for the shipping?

Thanks,

Considering buying one off Amazon soon..
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post #1306 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 11:27 AM
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No one here is complaining about people returning defective TVs.

What people were up in arms about was people buying TVs with the express intention of returning them. In other words, using retailers for free TV rentals.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1307 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

Personally, I don't like the way the ST converts 24fps material to 60 Hz as I feel Panasonic is using motion interpolation to correct the cadence (I notice a minor soap opera effect.) However, it's still pretty much a non-issue as every blu-ray player should be able to handle the conversion well. You really can't screw up simple frame repetition in a 2:3 pattern.

I do believe any motion interpolation can be turned off by adjusting the "motion smoother" setting. Are you saying you see soap opera effect with motion smoother completely off?
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post #1308 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

I do believe any motion interpolation can be turned off by adjusting the "motion smoother" setting. Are you saying you see soap opera effect with motion smoother completely off?

Yes, I am.

I've done A/B comparisons with my AVR doing the 24>60 conversion and just letting the TV handle it. There is without a doubt some motion smoothing happening even with everything turned completely off when I have the TV do it. I've tried it both in Cinema and in Custom mode to the same result.
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post #1309 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 12:21 PM
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Does anyone know if there will be any differences in the motion interpolation between the ST, GT and VT models. I'm one of those folks who happens to like motion interpolation as I have a problem with 24p judder. If the higher end models will have significantly better motion interpolation, that would tip me over the edge towards them (as compared to the ST which seems to be the greatest bang-for-the-buck option).

I'm looking for the highest level of motion interpolation with the least artifacts possible.


Max
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post #1310 of 1640 Old 04-26-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wsokolosky View Post

Might be worth a brief look at this:

https://clevelandplasma.com/store/pl...nic_th_85vx200

Chris at Cleveland plasma is a Forum Sponsor, and very knowledgeable.

Wes

Darn it. My entertainment center will only handle a 68 in. TV. That, and I dont have over $30,000.
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post #1311 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

No one here is complaining about people returning defective TVs.

What people were up in arms about was people buying TVs with the express intention of returning them. In other words, using retailers for free TV rentals.

Let's end this.
I was asked by maygit if I had a similar size display.
I currently have a Samsung 58" B860 that I plan to upgrade this year. It is running through a Lumagen Radiance Mini. It's fully calibrated with at i1 Display 3 Pro profiled with a recently calibrated i1 Pro.
As you can see I don't need to "rent" a display for a month. If you want to know my other thoughts as to why I'm trying the Sharp you can go back and read my other posts here.

If you have a problem with what I'm doing then it's YOUR problem. If fully intend to try the 80" display in my HT and if I'm not happy with it I will take it back (I'm buying locally) and get a 65" VT50 when they come out. If I don't like the VT50 I guarantee that I'll take it back and wait until next year.

I realize by looking at my first 2 post on this why the conclusions were reached but I'm not going to spend $4000 on a display that doesn't perform very well.

This is my last reply on this subject and like I said if you have a problem then it's yours.

Mike

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post #1312 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 06:27 AM
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some pics of an european VT50 :

the bezel




the stand


reflections


a movie
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post #1313 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 10:38 AM
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I need a little ammunition if possible to defend the 2012's regarding heat. Someone said that the 55st50 is rated at 400 watts. I don't really know what that means but any heat related help would be appreciated.
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post #1314 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post


Let's end this.
I was asked by maygit if I had a similar size display.
I currently have a Samsung 58" B860 that I plan to upgrade this year. It is running through a Lumagen Radiance Mini. It's fully calibrated with at i1 Display 3 Pro profiled with a recently calibrated i1 Pro.
As you can see I don't need to "rent" a display for a month. If you want to know my other thoughts as to why I'm trying the Sharp you can go back and read my other posts here.

If you have a problem with what I'm doing then it's YOUR problem. If fully intend to try the 80" display in my HT and if I'm not happy with it I will take it back (I'm buying locally) and get a 65" VT50 when they come out. If I don't like the VT50 I guarantee that I'll take it back and wait until next year.

I realize by looking at my first 2 post on this why the conclusions were reached but I'm not going to spend $4000 on a display that doesn't perform very well.

This is my last reply on this subject and like I said if you have a problem then it's yours.

The color on the Panasonic VT50 and 30 is significantly better than that of the Sharp.
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post #1315 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I need a little ammunition if possible to defend the 2012's regarding heat. Someone said that the 55st50 is rated at 400 watts. I don't really know what that means but any heat related help would be appreciated.

I have no concrete evidence, but I don't notice as much heat coming off my 60ST50 as I did my Samsung LNT4671f (46" LCD). Strange, huh?
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post #1316 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I need a little ammunition if possible to defend the 2012's regarding heat. Someone said that the 55st50 is rated at 400 watts. I don't really know what that means but any heat related help would be appreciated.

That's wrong.

Even calibrated, it will use nothing near that. You can see from the Cnet review (at the very bottom), that a calibrated display of this model will use about 250 watts:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...=rvwBody;page2

The plasma will convert more of its wattage to light than your typical light bulb, which makes 98% heat and 2% light.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1317 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

That's wrong.

Even calibrated, it will use nothing near that. You can see from the Cnet review (at the very bottom), that a calibrated display of this model will use about 250 watts:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...=rvwBody;page2

The plasma will convert more of its wattage to light than your typical light bulb, which makes 98% heat and 2% light.

That's not a very useful comparison, I would think comparing a plasma to fluorescent light-bulbs would be more useful.
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post #1318 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 01:54 PM
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That's not a very useful comparison, I would think comparing a plasma to fluorescent light-bulbs would be more useful.

I wouldn't. Virtually none of us use fluorescent light bulbs in our homes, not even CFLs. Whereas virtually all of us use incandescent bulbs in our homes.

My guess is your suggesting this because plasmas are vaguely similar in design to fluorescent lamps, but the nature of this inquiry was about someone concerned about heat.

I'd suggest the concern is likely misplaced as the house probably has all sorts of lightbulbs that are generating all sorts of heat. And the plasma is not generating much heat at all. That said, a modern LCD is going to use far less power than even a 2012 plasma. If one is off the grid or really concerned about power consumption, they should buy an LCD.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1319 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 02:14 PM
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It's a fair question: 'how hot does your plasma get?', which begs the question 'what's the best way to measure this?' We know the unit of measurement will be watts.
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post #1320 of 1640 Old 04-27-2012, 02:29 PM
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Actually, the unit of measurement will be degrees F or C.

Power usage is a different animal. Related to temperature, but not that directly. I have a laptop that uses 120w and it's keyboard/battery temp is around 105F. It it used 400w it would not be 4 times hotter.
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