Official Panasonic 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 1640 Old 05-26-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

I keep waiting and the prices keep dropping. I keep hesitating to buy. Anyone know about when the prices will stabilize?

There is no such known time.

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post #1442 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Bigger ST > smaller GT. No brainer. Period.

For some it's difficult to pay an additional $400 for a 65ST vs a 60GT.

Now, if they were the same price it may be a no brainer.

Current Amazon prices: 65ST $2383, 60GT $2000.
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post #1443 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 01:15 PM
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I've seen there are 55" and 65" VTs, are they skipping the 60" this year?

65" is too big for where I'm putting it and I don't want to give up another 5" to go VT.

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post #1444 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 01:31 PM
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The VT doesn't come in 60 inches - at least not in the last few models. There was a 58 VT25 but the VT30 was the same as the VT50 they skip from 55 to 65 inches.
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post #1445 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Bigger ST > smaller GT. No brainer. Period.

I disagree. I would rather go with the 60" GT over the 65" ST just to get the extra options.

Turn it up!
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post #1446 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

I disagree. I would rather go with the 60" GT over the 65" ST just to get the extra options.

To each their own. The extra size is worth way more than the extra features that are completely useless to me.
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post #1447 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

For some it's difficult to pay an additional $400 for a 65ST vs a 60GT.

Now, if they were the same price it may be a no brainer.

Current Amazon prices: 65ST $2383, 60GT $2000.

I don't believe the question was asking about price. It was about "quality" vs. size. And I was weighting the imperceptible quality far lower than the size. Obviously, for many people, $400 is a real difference.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1448 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

I disagree. I would rather go with the 60" GT over the 65" ST just to get the extra options.

Size matters way more when the luster of those "extra options" wears off. Especially between such similar sets.
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post #1449 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Syed117 View Post

Size matters way more when the luster of those "extra options" wears off. Especially between such similar sets.

Not only that, but the evidence those "options" provide picture quality that anyone would actually notice -- let alone miss without the other set sitting next to it -- is scant to non-existent.

On the other hand, the bigger set will be noticeable to most people forever.

So I am with you 100% Syed.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1450 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 07:39 PM
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Eh, I like the idea of being able to take it out of the box, set it to one of the THX modes that people seem to love and then forget about it as I'll never get my TV calibrated professionally. Plus, $400 is quite a bit of money. Also, once you go 65" you can never go back, so I can always upgrade in the future when the new stuff comes out =^P

Turn it up!
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post #1451 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 07:55 PM
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If you're not getting it calibrated for whatever reason, then the GT50 is the better choice because THX mode is better than the ST50 out of the box. If you are getting it calibrated, professionally or not, the ST50 is the better choice, IMO.
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post #1452 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 09:24 PM
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Even still you don't need to get an ST50 calibrated to get the most out of it.

You can get general calibration settings easy enough (like D-Nice's) that'll probably still be better than the GT's THX mode and requires little additional effort.

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post #1453 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

Eh, I like the idea of being able to take it out of the box, set it to one of the THX modes that people seem to love and then forget about it as I'll never get my TV calibrated professionally. Plus, $400 is quite a bit of money. Also, once you go 65" you can never go back, so I can always upgrade in the future when the new stuff comes out =^P

Well, I did go back. When comparing my old P65ST30 to the new P60GT50, the GT wins hands down. P60GT50 Pros: paid same price, THX Cinema mode, THX bright mode, THX 3D mode, perfect screen uniformity, only 4.5 inches less in the diagonal, easier to handle, 30 lbs lighter (114 lbs vs 85 lbs), 1 inch thinner. No contest.

Call me crazy, but I really don't miss the 65" size. From 9 feet away I can fill up the 65" virtual frame with the 60" by moving just 7 inches closer. I realize that many can not do that or want to. But for those who can, it's obviously one easy way to get the equivalent viewing experience of the 65" and save some serious bucks. 7 inches is really nothing in a flexible home theater space.
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post #1454 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

Well, I did go back. When comparing my old P65ST30 to the new P60GT50, the GT wins hands down. P60GT50 Pros: paid same price, THX Cinema mode, THX bright mode, THX 3D mode, perfect screen uniformity, only 4.5 inches less in the diagonal, easier to handle, 30 lbs lighter (114 lbs vs 85 lbs), 1 inch thinner. No contest.

Call me crazy, but I really don't miss the 65" size. From 9 feet away I can fill up the 65" virtual frame with the 60" by moving just 7 inches closer. I realize that many can not do that or want to. But for those who can, it's obviously one easy way to get the equivalent viewing experience of the 65" and save some serious bucks. 7 inches is really nothing in a flexible home theater space.

Good for you. I'm not hating on the ST50 but some of the forum members here conveniently leave out important features in order to compare the GT50 with the ST50 so the ST50 comes out the clear winner. My favorite line, "Oh just calibrate the ST50 and it's a better choice over the GT50" Really, how so? How does calibrating the ST50 suddenly make it better than the GT50?

Everybody has different needs so please, to the people that don't find any use for the extra features of the GT50 don't make it sound like if you don't need it no one else does either.

For me connectivity is crucial when I'm spending money and the ST50 is limited against the GT50 and VT50. Also I have to look it daily and IMO the ST50 just looks cheap in comparison to how handsome and professional looking the GT50 and VT50 are. Understandably so since it's the entry level model in it's class. Right now the prices are coming down quite a bit on the GT50 so it makes it an easier choice over the ST50.
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post #1455 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 10:53 PM
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Thank you HLdan. You must have been reading my mind when you posted.

I guess some people only want a monitor, and I'm not knocking them, but just don't knock me for buying a tv that suits my every need, including those presented by an every changing environment, and that will also take me into the future with less stress.

If you're on a tight budget buy the ST50... oh but wait, the UT50 costs even less and I hear that it looks great too, after the proper adjustments are made.

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post #1456 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 11:13 PM
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post #1457 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 11:31 PM
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Good for you. I'm not hating on the ST50 but some of the forum members here conveniently leave out important features in order to compare the GT50 with the ST50 so the ST50 comes out the clear winner. My favorite line, "Oh just calibrate the ST50 and it's a better choice over the GT50" Really, how so? How does calibrating the ST50 suddenly make it better than the GT50?

Everybody has different needs so please, to the people that don't find any use for the extra features of the GT50 don't make it sound like if you don't need it no one else does either.

For me connectivity is crucial when I'm spending money and the ST50 is limited against the GT50 and VT50. Also I have to look it daily and IMO the ST50 just looks cheap in comparison to how handsome and professional looking the GT50 and VT50 are. Understandably so since it's the entry level model in it's class. Right now the prices are coming down quite a bit on the GT50 so it makes it an easier choice over the ST50.


Here's to hoping that the ST50 chest beaters eat some serious crow when D-Nice posts his GT50 calibration results and recommendations.
"If it's war they want... it's war they'll get!"
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post #1458 of 1640 Old 05-27-2012, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

Here's to hoping that the ST50 chest beaters eat some serious crow when D-Nice posts his GT50 calibration results and recommendations.
"If it's war they want... it's war they'll get!"

I'm not in this tussle, but from what I've read in D-Nice's posts you may not get your wish.

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post #1459 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 12:06 AM
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I'm not in this tussle, but from what I've read in D-Nice's posts you may not get your wish.

Even if the GT is slightly better (and I find even that somewhat unlikely given the limits of human perception), we are talking slightly. So your bet is a good one to take.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #1460 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

Good for you. I'm not hating on the ST50 but some of the forum members here conveniently leave out important features in order to compare the GT50 with the ST50 so the ST50 comes out the clear winner. My favorite line, "Oh just calibrate the ST50 and it's a better choice over the GT50" Really, how so? How does calibrating the ST50 suddenly make it better than the GT50?

Everybody has different needs so please, to the people that don't find any use for the extra features of the GT50 don't make it sound like if you don't need it no one else does either.

For me connectivity is crucial when I'm spending money and the ST50 is limited against the GT50 and VT50. Also I have to look it daily and IMO the ST50 just looks cheap in comparison to how handsome and professional looking the GT50 and VT50 are. Understandably so since it's the entry level model in it's class. Right now the prices are coming down quite a bit on the GT50 so it makes it an easier choice over the ST50.

You're either taking my posts out of context (and I think that you are considering it's similar to my wording), or you're quoting someone else. What I said was, that a calibrated ST50 has better PQ than an uncalibrated GT50 in THX mode (fact). The savings from the ST50 can be put towards a pro calibration. If you're calibrating an ST50 yourself and the additional features and aesthetics don't interest you, then I still think the ST50 is a better choice simply because it's cheaper.

That's why a calibrated ST50 is a better choice...

I don't know if you're including me in this, but to anyone who has asked, any of my posts recommending the ST50 over the GT50, I clearly state that I'm speaking in terms of PQ and that the only reason to get the GT50 is if you're not getting it calibrated, you prefer the styling, or the extra features interest you; so I'm not leaving anything out. I'm sure most people are aware of the differences between the two as far as features anyway... they're listed right on the Panasonic website. And I'm not going around telling people that the ST50 looks better aesthetically, nor am I going around criticizing people for purchasing a GT50; if you did, then I'm happy for you... you got a great set and you chose it for your own reasons. But if you're coming to AVS, then most likely you're asking about the PQ differences.

Everything I say is a fact and I'm simply giving my recommendation. Take it or leave it. Am I not allowed to give my opinion? If I came here asking this question, I'd be happy to know that I can save some money because the additional features don't appeal to me at all, and the miniscule differences in PQ after calibration aren't worth the extra money. I'd be happy to know that the money saved can go towards a calibration and that it will look better than an uncalibrated GT50. I would consider that good advice.
As a matter of fact, I'm in the same position... before I saw the calibration reports and reviews, I was set on buying a GT50. But because I'm calibrating my TV myself and the additional features don't appeal to me, I changed my mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

Here's to hoping that the ST50 chest beaters eat some serious crow when D-Nice posts his GT50 calibration results and recommendations.
"If it's war they want... it's war they'll get!"

D-Nice is one of the "ST50 chest beaters", if by that you mean that he also recommends the ST50 over the GT50.
And we have already seen calibration reports for both sets. I wouldn't just go around saying what I do based on nothing.

The only reason people are arguing is because people are being defensive about their purchasing decisions when they shouldn't be... they have their reasons.
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post #1461 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 03:18 AM
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You're either taking my posts out of context, or you're quoting someone else. What I said was, that a calibrated ST50 has better PQ than an uncalibrated GT50 in THX mode (fact). The savings from the ST50 can be put towards a pro calibration. If you're calibrating an ST50 yourself and the additional features and aesthetics don't interest you, then I still think the ST50 is a better choice simply because it's cheaper.

That's why a calibrated ST50 is a better choice...

I don't know if you're including me in this, but to anyone who has asked, any of my posts recommending the ST50 over the GT50, I clearly state that I'm speaking in terms of PQ and that the only reason to get the GT50 is if you're not getting it calibrated, you prefer the styling, or the extra features interest you; so I'm not leaving anything out. I'm sure most people are aware of the differences between the two as far as features anyway... they're listed right on the Panasonic website. And I'm not going around telling people that the ST50 looks better aesthetically, nor am I going around criticizing people for purchasing a GT50; if you did, then I'm happy for you... you got a great set and you chose it for your own reasons. But if you're coming to AVS, then most likely you're asking about the PQ differences.

Everything I say is a fact and I'm simply giving my recommendation. Take it or leave it. Am I not allowed to give my opinion? If I came here asking this question, I'd be happy to know that I can save some money because the additional features don't appeal to me at all, and the miniscule differences in PQ after calibration aren't worth the extra money. I'd be happy to know that the money saved can go towards a calibration and that it will look better than an uncalibrated GT50. I would consider that good advice.
As a matter of fact, I'm in the same position... before I saw the calibration reports and reviews, I was set on buying a GT50. But because I'm calibrating my TV myself and the additional features don't appeal to me, I changed my mind.


D-Nice is one of the "ST50 chest beaters", if by that you mean that he also recommends the ST50 over the GT50.
And we have already seen calibration reports for both sets. I wouldn't just go around saying what I do based on nothing.


Your points are well taken. I am a former ST chest beater. If one is only looking for great PQ, by all means go with the ST. But, if one wants great PQ, all the GT goodies, at a great price, and a D-Nice GT calibration that gives a result as good as or better than the ST, then come over to the "GT side."

I don't recall D-Nice saying he recommends the ST over the GT as far as PQ is concerned. He hasn't calibrated the GT yet. Please point me to his quote.

Boy, you guys are way too sensitive. Both versions are wise investments.

Guess I better look up the recipe for barbecued crow ... just in case.
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post #1462 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 03:32 AM
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The ST and GT both have the same panel, same screen filter and same set of calibration controls. The only thing that the GT50 has that improves PQ over the ST50 is the extra shades of gradients, which has been said by those that have seen both, makes little difference. We don't know what TVs D-Nice has calibrated... by now, I'm sure he has calibrated at least one.

FWIW, I never said D-Nice said the ST50 has better PQ, I just said that he recommends the ST50 over the GT50 for (more or less) the same reasons I do. But if you want to hear it from the man himself, he has said it multiple times:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=126
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=258
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=664
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=534
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post #1463 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

The ST and GT both have the same panel, same screen filter and same set of calibration controls. The only thing that the GT50 has that improves PQ over the ST50 is the extra shades of gradients, which has been said by those that have seen both, makes little difference. We don't know what TVs D-Nice has calibrated... by now, I'm sure he has calibrated at least one.

FWIW, I never said D-Nice said the ST50 has better PQ, I just said that he recommends the ST50 over the GT50 for (more or less) the same reasons I do. But if you want to hear it from the man himself, he has said it multiple times:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=126
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=258
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=664
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=534

Thanks for the posts.

Looks like D-Nice does recommend the GT for me since I do "prefer the styling."
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post #1464 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 07:57 AM
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On Amazon the price difference between the 2 is just over $200 on the 50" models. Can you get a proper professional calibration for $200?
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You can delete using the edit option associated with your post.

Indeed you can . Done. Thanks for the tutorial.
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You can delete using the edit option associated with your post.

OT - when the new AVS site debuts we're no longer going to be able to delete a post unless it's the last post in the thread. Editing access will be on a timer now too.

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post #1467 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 10:14 AM
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OT - when the new AVS site debuts we're no longer going to be able to delete a post unless it's the last post in the thread. Editing access will be on a timer now too.



What am I going to do when I post something that's really really stupid?

I know, I'll do all my really really stupid posting after 1:00 AM PST.

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post #1468 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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You're either taking my posts out of context (and I think that you are considering it's similar to my wording), or you're quoting someone else. What I said was, that a calibrated ST50 has better PQ than an uncalibrated GT50 in THX mode (fact). The savings from the ST50 can be put towards a pro calibration. If you're calibrating an ST50 yourself and the additional features and aesthetics don't interest you, then I still think the ST50 is a better choice simply because it's cheaper.

That's why a calibrated ST50 is a better choice...

I don't know if you're including me in this, but to anyone who has asked, any of my posts recommending the ST50 over the GT50, I clearly state that I'm speaking in terms of PQ and that the only reason to get the GT50 is if you're not getting it calibrated, you prefer the styling, or the extra features interest you; so I'm not leaving anything out. I'm sure most people are aware of the differences between the two as far as features anyway... they're listed right on the Panasonic website. And I'm not going around telling people that the ST50 looks better aesthetically, nor am I going around criticizing people for purchasing a GT50; if you did, then I'm happy for you... you got a great set and you chose it for your own reasons. But if you're coming to AVS, then most likely you're asking about the PQ differences.

Everything I say is a fact and I'm simply giving my recommendation. Take it or leave it. Am I not allowed to give my opinion? If I came here asking this question, I'd be happy to know that I can save some money because the additional features don't appeal to me at all, and the miniscule differences in PQ after calibration aren't worth the extra money. I'd be happy to know that the money saved can go towards a calibration and that it will look better than an uncalibrated GT50. I would consider that good advice.
As a matter of fact, I'm in the same position... before I saw the calibration reports and reviews, I was set on buying a GT50. But because I'm calibrating my TV myself and the additional features don't appeal to me, I changed my mind.




The only reason people are arguing is because people are being defensive about their purchasing decisions when they shouldn't be... they have their reasons.

Okay, so what you're saying is a calibrated ST50 is better than an UNcalibrated GT50's THX modes? I haven't seen, nor do I know where D-NICE's information in regards to the calibration results are for the ST50 and GT50. So are you saying that D-NICE calibrated both models and saw zero difference? Or are you saying that he only calibrated the ST50 and found it equal to the GT50 uncalibrated? I'm just asking so you don't think I'm taking your words out of context. . Also, you do realize that calibration isn't permanent and the THX modes are?

Also most of the time I don't see many post of people saying, "Could someone tell me the difference between the ST50 and the GT50 as far as PQ ONLY?" Most of the time question is "What's the difference between the ST50 and the GT50 or is it worth it to get the GT50?"

Usually the answers come from the ST50 owners and they only answer the question in regards to PQ. People do come here asking questions about the TV's for more than just about PQ. And as far as going to the Panasonic website to get all the specs, get over yourself. If people only did that a forum wouldn't necessarily be needed. Other than asking people's opinions on how well their TV is working the website can tell us everything according to you.

I never mentioned anything about "ST50 chest beaters" so don't quote me and put that your post. Quote the correct person please because your tone towards me is already way below friendly.
Prices are coming down quite a bit for the GT50 so it's even more of a better buy for people that no only want PQ but connectivity features and styling as well. Afterall, what's the point of paying for a smart TV if you can't get the best out of it? And before you reply back saying that some of the features are forced upon us, well yes they are but why spend money and get half-assed features when you can spend a bit more and get a lot better.

I can't imagine anyone saying they would prefer to have limited connectivity.

At least I can talk to you in a fair tone, you're talking about other people being defensive, sir you're very defensive. I was trying to speak up for people who like the GT50, you're trying to speak against them.
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post #1469 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 12:04 PM
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Okay, so what you're saying is a calibrated ST50 is better than an UNcalibrated GT50's THX modes?

Yes and by a significant amount.

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So are you saying that D-NICE calibrated both models and saw zero difference?

That is correct.

Quote:


Also, you do realize that calibration isn't permanent and the THX modes are?

THX mode will shift over time just as a calibration will so the whole permanent comment does not make sense.


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post #1470 of 1640 Old 05-28-2012, 12:05 PM
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OT - when the new AVS site debuts we're no longer going to be able to delete a post unless it's the last post in the thread. Editing access will be on a timer now too.

Interesting but makes no sense.


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