Official Samsung 2012 Lineup and Information Thread [No Price Talk] - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 05:44 AM
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I find it perplexing that some of you can't swallow them raising the price a tiny bit on a TV that outperformed the vt30 last year in basically all regards minus benchmarking blacks in a cave and some noisy shadow details.

Good blacks but poor everything else doesn't make a good premium TV.

Samsung fixed their two flaws: peeling & FBr.

IMO D7000/8000 was superior to the VT30 in Color, gamma, luminance, PWM noise, Calibration Controls, ARC that actually returns 5.1, less IR, Bluetooth glasses and to boot they had a better AR filter!

(I owned both, lots of hours calibrating both with a pro meter) The VT30 can be massaged into a place where it doesn't look bad at all, but it still never looked "right". However then you feed it a 4:4:4 signal and things go down hill pretty quickly.

So why is it crazy they want to charge the same as Panasonic? I guess is what I'm asking.

You may not want the extras but the E8000 does come with things that the VT50 doesn't. All Panasonic did was not include the 3d glasses and dropped the price $200.

I'm as excited about the VT50 as anyone else after getting all wound up from the Panasonic press/website info. But I'll use Panasonic's past few years of history to keep myself grounded and I'll also remind myself that Samsung brought it last year and donked Panasonic on the head with a hammer. This time around I'm going to wait as long as possible to see what bugs crop up for both manufacturers. My guess is the Samsung will be very well polished this year for all things PQ wise. I expect the new voice/motion control stuff will have some bugs since it's 1st generation. If you use last years models as a guide Samsung's list of stuff to fix PQ wise is MUCH smaller than Panasonic's.

-SiGGy
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post #62 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 06:05 AM
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^^^ Yup, and not to mention that the Samsungs from last year burn in like crazy and buzz like a g6 plane... Add those factors to the fact that they like to steal everyone's patents and are focusing on stupid nicks like motion control. I think i'll pass on Samsungs and sstick with my panny's for the plasma game..

It's all fun and games until my wife notices something new in the entertainment center
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post #63 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRoX85 View Post

^^^ Yup, and not to mention that the Samsungs from last year burn in like crazy and buzz like a g6 plane... Add those factors to the fact that they like to steal everyone's patents and are focusing on stupid nicks like motion control. I think i'll pass on Samsungs and sstick with my panny's for the plasma game..

Well ya you should do whatever feels right to you and no one can tell you how to feel. But some of what you're saying is wrong, you should be aware of that.

I had 4 D8000's, all of them buzzed the same (VERY quiet in my room). Minus one that was slightly louder. None of which were audible over the audio I had to mute the TV to hear it, and the sound was very directional. I had to be level with the center of the TV to hear it. I think the buzz is very circumstantial to the room acoustics and TV placement.

Are you just choosing to ignore that the D7000/8000 is now considered the new benchmark for color performance? You positive Samsung is only focusing on "nicks"? It's quite obvious they didn't copy Panasonic here

Never did I experience any burn in on a D8000 panel or even any IR to speak of. There are VERY few people with this issue. With the VT30 I experienced IR quite a bit and had green blobs. And there are even large threads dedicated to this subject. While burn-in and IR are possible with any Plasma, 2011 Panasonic's are more susceptible.

Understanding patent law is complicated and Samsung is no different than any number of other companies. Now if they are reverse engineering and blatantly stealing that's different. But that's rarely the case with anything sold in the US.

Otherwise Apple, Google, Microsoft, Broadcomm, HP, Dell, Asus, HTC, Intel, AMD, Samsung, Panasonic, Sony... I could keep going. They ALL fall into this category you speak of. At some point it's almost impossible not to walk on someones patent. If you read the business section of the news you'll see all of these companies and many more go back and forth on this stuff all the time.

Sure hope you don't own anything from any of them either.... now you don't right?


I tried to get a Samsung Panel without FBr last year (obviously a waste of time since the fix didn't get released until recently) which is why I went through so many panels. And eventually gave up on both the VT30 and D8000. But Samsung obliged and tired to make right on it every time... If they truly had "bad business" practices they would have just told me to suck it and hung up and kept my money. That's what a bad business practice would be. But in the end they sent me a refund check and apologized after trying to fix it a few times.

People cherry pick a few stories to blow things out of proportion, it's not to say bad things don't happen because they do. But sometimes things aren't always as they appear (most times). And not every employee from every company is going to follow company policy correctly or make good decisions for the customer... you can find dirt on any of those companies I listed if you look for it. The age old saying "bad news travels faster and further than good news", and the new age saying of "people don't take the time to get online and praise products but they do find the time to get online to complain" are both very true.

The reality check is that Panasonic has to catch up to Samsung at this point... I do hope the VT50 is the one that does it

-SiGGy
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post #64 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 09:06 AM
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What will the 60e7000 sell for? I saw the 59d7000 yesterday and was impressed but might be worth waiting for.
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post #65 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Never did I experience any burn in on a D8000 panel or even any IR to speak of. There are VERY few people with this issue.

What size sammy you had/have? Is 59 and 64 identical on black levels and ir? My 51D555 has lots of ir, but luckily it fades away fast too. It bothers sometimes though. Im after 60 inch this year and it will be 60GT50 or 60E7000.
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post #66 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtm79 View Post

What size sammy you had/have? Is 59 and 64 identical on black levels and ir? My 51D555 has lots of ir, but luckily it fades away fast too. It bothers sometimes though. Im after 60 inch this year and it will be 60GT50 or 60E7000.

64"

Samsung used different panel technologies for the 59" and 64" panels throughout the 2011 year! Some of the panels have ITO sub-pixel structures some do not.

The panels that do not have ITO designed sub pixels have 1/3rd less image retention than the panels that do have ITO.

So one persons experience may vary from another even if it's the same size and model. It all depends on which panel technology you ended up with. "ITO" or "ITO-less"...

More details on it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1389562

-SiGGy
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post #67 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

64"

Samsung used different panel technologies for the 59" and 64" panels throughout the 2011 year! Some of the panels have ITO sub-pixel structures some do not.

The panels that do not have ITO designed sub pixels have 1/3rd less image retention than the panels that do have ITO.

So one persons experience may vary from another even if it's the same size and model. It all depends on which panel technology you ended up with. "ITO" or "ITO-less"...

More details on it here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1389562

Well thats just great. I thought that this stupid panel lottery is only on lcd market. Well i guess im going to Buy 60GT50 instead of E7000, because i hate ir and i also hate lottery.

How do you know which panel you have?

What is the point of this? I would expect that if me and my friend will buy the same tv they have same tech inside. I wonder why this **** only happens on tv's and mostly with Samsung.
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post #68 of 267 Old 02-17-2012, 04:05 PM
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I have no real idea what Samsung did with regard to the panels, but the notion that they made a mid-year switch away from ITO seems very, very unlikely to me. ITO, indium-tin oxide, allows for transparent electrodes -- an essential feature of LCDs and plasmas -- and there is no current alternative.

Anyway, it's clear they are using some ITOless designation, but the notion that means they changed the electrodes seems ridiculous to me.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #69 of 267 Old 02-18-2012, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

What will the 60e7000 sell for? I saw the 59d7000 yesterday and was impressed but might be worth waiting for.

Get ready for sticker shock, as Samsung is supposed to have a "fixed" selling price. No discounts past a certain point
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post #70 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cleveland plasma View Post


get ready for sticker shock, as samsung is supposed to have a "fixed" selling price. No discounts past a certain point

2,500?
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post #71 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 07:54 AM
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post #72 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I have no real idea what Samsung did with regard to the panels, but the notion that they made a mid-year switch away from ITO seems very, very unlikely to me. ITO, indium-tin oxide, allows for transparent electrodes -- an essential feature of LCDs and plasmas -- and there is no current alternative.

Anyway, it's clear they are using some ITOless designation, but the notion that means they changed the electrodes seems ridiculous to me.


Did you read the link I posted where the info came from before replying?

The firmware flashes are for different panels and are named ITO and ITO-less. Possible Samsung was in the process of changing it and had stock of one series of panel. Probably know more with the E series once it's out.

They also changed AR coatings during the year as well. The real black filter was only on panels up until October. After that there was no real-black filter even though they advertised it as such. Granted the term "real-black" filter is just marketing and can apply to whatever they want. The original AR filter was changed, night and day difference between them.

Were completely OT for 2012 Samsung stuff Lets move the ITO vs ITO-less conversation to the thread I linked...

-SiGGy
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post #73 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 08:32 AM
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So are the newer 2011 panels ITO-less or is it the old 2011 panels?
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post #74 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 08:45 AM
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So are the newer 2011 panels ITO-less or is it the old 2011 panels?

Follow the thread I mentioned... ask in there.

-SiGGy
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post #75 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post


Get ready for sticker shock, as Samsung is supposed to have a "fixed" selling price. No discounts past a certain point

Is this a guess? Or rumor? Or did you get your dealer info?

buytme
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post #76 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 11:33 AM
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The Samsung fixed pricing stuff is not a rumor. It's been reported on by HD Guru. And it's no discounts period. Now, it might be possible to offer various kinds of bundles and gift cards without running afoul of the rules. It's also possible they will abandon this after hearing feedback from the channel.

But the plan is clear: Most lines will be sold at a fixed price, so you have no need to shop. (This applies to all but the cheapest lines). And, by the way, most of the pricing sucks.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #77 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 07:09 PM
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Is this a guess? Or rumor? Or did you get your dealer info?

So far that is fact, we will see how it plays out.......Rogo pretty much has it right, except for the bundle parts. Denon for example, does not allow anything like this for there authorized dealer channels. Lets face it, the manufacturers know all the tricks..... In the end we have to wait and see as "I have heard that before". In fact many, many times.
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post #78 of 267 Old 02-19-2012, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Did you read the link I posted where the info came from before replying?

The firmware flashes are for different panels and are named ITO and ITO-less. Possible Samsung was in the process of changing it and had stock of one series of panel. Probably know more with the E series once it's out.

I read your link and I confess to having no idea what the designations actually mean. There was implications in the other post that somehow they changed the electrodes, which seems ridiculous. In both cases, the electrodes are ITO. So what the difference is between ITO and ITOless is a mystery.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #79 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 01:56 AM
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It's just stupid that they're raising the price of their tvs this year.
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post #80 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 06:24 AM
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Have you bought any food or gas recently?

Inflation is about to get very very bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HearingImpaired View Post

It's just stupid that they're raising the price of their tvs this year.


buytme
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post #81 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by David_B View Post

Have you bought any food or gas recently?

Inflation is about to get very very bad.

It'll make all my debt look a lot better. Can't wait

On Samsung's pricing approach this year, I think the problem is less that they set firm pricing, and more that they set the *wrong* firm pricing.

I think it's fine that businesses have to compete on things other than price...service, product knowledge, sales environment, after sale service, return policies, etc. But given how price sensitive consumers have become overall, and especially wrt large TV's (sometimes almost regardless of how awful the TVs actually are!) I just don't see the current price points sticking if Samsung actually wants to maintain volume leadership.

It'd take drastic gamesmanship on the part of dealers - sending awful feeds to better/cheaper/comparable non-Samsung sets, and pristine feeds to Samsung sets - to get people to pay these prices in any meaningful volume. I get that J6P (and spouses) love the thin panels, teeny bezels, etc. but at some point, as we've already seen, price trumps everything else. We'll see.

Stuck up, half witted, scruffy looking, nerf herder.
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post #82 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 07:36 AM
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How comethey can go to 60 now? Psssh 59.04 is better :-)

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #83 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

The Samsung fixed pricing stuff is not a rumor. It's been reported on by HD Guru. And it's no discounts period. Now, it might be possible to offer various kinds of bundles and gift cards without running afoul of the rules. It's also possible they will abandon this after hearing feedback from the channel.

But the plan is clear: Most lines will be sold at a fixed price, so you have no need to shop. (This applies to all but the cheapest lines). And, by the way, most of the pricing sucks.

In addition, it sounds as if any improvements on the 2012 are very incremental at best; hence, with the recent FB update, if one can find a 2011 at a great price, that might be a better option for a lot of people.

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post #84 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 08:37 AM
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E8000 series: 1080p, real black pro panel, 3D, Smart TV, web browser, gesture and voice remote, built-in camera

PN51E8000 $2249

PN60E8000 $2799

PN64E8000 $3599

PNE7000 series: 1080p real black pro panel, 3D, smart TV, web browser

PN51E7000 $1499

PN60E7000 $2299

PN64E7000 $3099

http://hdguru.com/more-samsung-2012-...421/#more-7421
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post #85 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 09:23 AM
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BHPHOTOVIDEO.COM Shows the PNE8000 availability of 2/25/2012. How accurate do you guys think they're?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/842033-REG/a.html
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post #86 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 09:31 AM
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I actually called them today and they confirmed the 25th

consider the source
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post #87 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 10:03 AM
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I actually called them today and they confirmed the 25th

Cool thanks. That's awesome
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post #88 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 10:09 AM
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Does the fixed pricing mean there will be no week to week sales at various retailers throughout the year? Usually some good sales start in the summer, with better prices by Labor Day and Black Friday. Is the stated MSRP the fixed price throughout the year?
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post #89 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 10:12 AM
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When I was going thru their site they showed the PNE8000 available 2/25/2012 and the PNE7000 3/25/2012. I wonder why they would have the 8000 series month in advanced.
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post #90 of 267 Old 02-20-2012, 10:19 AM
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Is the E550 series part of the fixed pricing plan? If so I might have to plunge on a D550 right now, don't wanna pay several hundred dollars more for what would be a virtually identical set.
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