Dithering en image retention concerns - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 01-13-2012, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone!

I've bought a Samsung PS50C550 about a year ago. And I have some concerns, i've done my research online reading tons of forums and articles but oppinions and advice vary to much it's only confusing...

- Image Retention
From the time I turned on the plasma, I've had problems with image retention, I calibrated the settings low during the advised break-in period and hoped it would go away, but sadly it doesn't.

When the TV has been on for a few hours and there is something static displayed (e.g. a channel logo or the media play homescreen), it will only take a few minutes and after that I have image retention... It will go away after an hour or so... If I turn off the screen with image retention still there and turn it on the next day, it's still there... it will only go away when dynamic content is displayed. All the burn-in protection features are enabled.

- Dithering
Today I was adjusting some calibration settings, not sure if some setting caused this, or it's always been there but I just noticed it for the first time... anyway, I have massive green/red/blue dithering, especially in the black area's. I read somewhere that turning down the brightness will help hide it, and that worked, when the brightness is under 34 the dithering in the black area's will fanish. When it's at 35 it suddenly appears all over the black area's, it will get more extreme when turning the brightness up.

After the break-in period, the calibration has always been set to the value's recommended in the review found on this website. In this review the brightness value is set at 50ish, but on my plasma that shows massive and massive dithering, it's easier to see when i'm up close then when i'm sitting on my couch but it's still visible enough to be annoying as hell.

Please some advice, it all this normal? Should I call Samsung to send someone over to have my plasma fixed? I would like to know the answer to these questions before my support runs out :-)
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post #2 of 9 Old 01-13-2012, 04:59 PM
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What source are you using? Are you seeing this on everything you are watching? Too much signal compression can cause dithering. Have you calibrated your top box and or player as well as your TV? Check all your settings and make sure your set up is scaling properly. For example, if you are using a cable box or satellite receiver set it to native or 1080i which ever looks best. If you are using a BD player set it to auto or 1080p. The image retention you are seeing is from a residual electric charge in the pixels. This is normal for a plasma.

Ian

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post #3 of 9 Old 01-14-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

What source are you using? Are you seeing this on everything you are watching? Too much signal compression can cause dithering. Have you calibrated your top box and or player as well as your TV? Check all your settings and make sure your set up is scaling properly. For example, if you are using a cable box or satellite receiver set it to native or 1080i which ever looks best. If you are using a BD player set it to auto or 1080p. The image retention you are seeing is from a residual electric charge in the pixels. This is normal for a plasma.

Ian

Hi,

Thanks for your help so far.

The source was a 1080p movie played over my network, streamed with Serviio on my fileserver.

I have a cable box with digital signal set to 1080i and have some HD channels. Just checked the dithering on a HD channel and there is less dithering but still alot of green dithering in the black area's. When I switch channels and the screen goes black before the next channel loads I see the green dithering across the screen, when I have my brightness set to 54 or lower the green dithering goes away. When it's set to 55 or higher the green dithering is back.

Don't have a BD player yet, just my plasma and cablebox.


About the image retention, my parents have a Kuro and say they never have any image retention... is this just the quality differnence then, since it's also a plasma...? And why is the image retention still there when the plasma has been off for hours and hours and then turned on... Why does the image retention only go away when the plasma is still on? Does anyone here have a Samsung C550 and can confirm that they have image retention as fast as me?
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post #4 of 9 Old 01-14-2012, 12:46 PM
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Unfortunately no plasma is as resistant to image retention as a Kuro, not even Panasonic. Samsung was famous to be very sensitive to retention and I'm not even calling LG into here!
2011 Samsung PDPs have way better resistance to image retention. Is yours a 2011 or 2010?

Dithering is visible on all plasmas, even on a Kuro...
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post #5 of 9 Old 01-14-2012, 06:55 PM
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I had a Samsung FPT-5084 46" a number of years ago and it started dithering after a couple of years into ownership. This dithering was beyond normal. You can stand up close to a plasma and see a small amount of dithering, yes, but when you're viewing the set from the normal viewing distance, mine was set at 10', and you see green, red and blue dithering in the dark areas, then there is something wrong. I have to look very hard and very close on my Panny to see any dithering... that's normal. I had a tech come to the house and said it was an over, or under voltage issue. The set was recalibrated and it continued to dither. I had a tech back out to the house and they replaced the screen on the set and it continued to dither. A third tech came to the house and determined that the color drives were going out on the set. At this point it was cheaper to buy a new set than try and fix what I had. Keep in mind, I spent $300.00 on a professional calibration. That is when I started looking at Panasonics. I'll never go back to Samsung after purchasing the TC-P50G20. I just don't trust Samsung anymore. I'm sure there are some great sets, but I'm done with them.

Very pleased with Panny and will purchase another unless something grossly negligent happens on their end.
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post #6 of 9 Old 01-15-2012, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Cardo View Post

Unfortunately no plasma is as resistant to image retention as a Kuro, not even Panasonic. Samsung was famous to be very sensitive to retention and I'm not even calling LG into here!
2011 Samsung PDPs have way better resistance to image retention. Is yours a 2011 or 2010?

Dithering is visible on all plasmas, even on a Kuro...

Hi,

I bought the Samsung PS50C550 in 2011, correct me if i'm wrong but I think it's a 2010 model...

Can dithering get worse when something is wrong with my plasma? If I would put another PS50C550 next to mine, would I see the same amount of dithering?

Why do I have to turn down brightness to remove the dithering? When it's below the value's I mentioned in my earlier posts, it almost fanishes in the black area's, then it's very hard to see...
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post #7 of 9 Old 01-15-2012, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDH63 View Post

I had a Samsung FPT-5084 46" a number of years ago and it started dithering after a couple of years into ownership. This dithering was beyond normal. You can stand up close to a plasma and see a small amount of dithering, yes, but when you're viewing the set from the normal viewing distance, mine was set at 10', and you see green, red and blue dithering in the dark areas, then there is something wrong. I have to look very hard and very close on my Panny to see any dithering... that's normal. I had a tech come to the house and said it was an over, or under voltage issue. The set was recalibrated and it continued to dither. I had a tech back out to the house and they replaced the screen on the set and it continued to dither. A third tech came to the house and determined that the color drives were going out on the set. At this point it was cheaper to buy a new set than try and fix what I had. Keep in mind, I spent $300.00 on a professional calibration. That is when I started looking at Panasonics. I'll never go back to Samsung after purchasing the TC-P50G20. I just don't trust Samsung anymore. I'm sure there are some great sets, but I'm done with them.

Very pleased with Panny and will purchase another unless something grossly negligent happens on their end.



What happens on your Panasonic when you turn the brightness up? Is there a limit where you have to stay under to prevent dithering? E.g. when it's at or above 55 does dithering get worse?
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post #8 of 9 Old 01-15-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryotic View Post


Hi,

I bought the Samsung PS50C550 in 2011, correct me if i'm wrong but I think it's a 2010 model...

Can dithering get worse when something is wrong with my plasma? If I would put another PS50C550 next to mine, would I see the same amount of dithering?

Why do I have to turn down brightness to remove the dithering? When it's below the value's I mentioned in my earlier posts, it almost fanishes in the black area's, then it's very hard to see...

Im not sure it but I also believe its from 2010 when all plasmas changed their panels to drive 3D and that made them very prone to image retention one again (even on Panasonics), they solved it on 2011 models...I'm sorry

But you should not worry about it, just get used to it and try to enjoy your tv. I had a Samsung panel from 2005 and you can imagine it was even worse than yours. I got used to that. Retention went away very quickly.

As for dithering goes the same thing.
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post #9 of 9 Old 01-15-2012, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryotic View Post

What happens on your Panasonic when you turn the brightness up? Is there a limit where you have to stay under to prevent dithering? E.g. when it's at or above 55 does dithering get worse?

To be quite honest with you, dithering is not even an issue on this Panny. I had this Panny calibrated after I broke it in through the first 100 hours and it's been a great set. The only issue it has, and this has been reported already on these sets, are the floating blacks. And in all seriousness, that doesn't even come into play because the set is such a good performer. I rarely notice the FBs. Definitely not a deal breaker like the dithering on the Samsung I had. If you're noticing dithering the way it sounds like you're describing, then the amount of dithering you're seeing is not normal. If you're within warranty, see if you can replace the set. If you get another one that does the same thing, then you may consider jumping to a different brand.
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