First time plasma owner, question about black levels and xbox 360 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-14-2012, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys I just got the LG 42PT350 plasma, its a 42" plasma with a native resolution of what I believe is 1024x768.

First off I've been testing out and taking back led's and lcds for the last few months but hated them because of the backlight bleed when I watched dark movies or played video games, so I got this plasma and alas! no backlight bleeding and its colors and the refresh rate look really good.

However, I have a couple concerns:

1. I keep hearing about the black levels of plasma's and this may not be realistic but I was hoping that the screen's blacks would look "panel" black, like the black of the panel on the front of the tv. This is not the case with my lg and even though the blacks are good I thought they would be better, so I didn't know if maybe there are certain calibration things I'm supposed to do to make the blacks blacker. Does anyone have advice on this?

2. I hook my xbox 360 up to this via the vga port with my xbox 360 hd vga cable and I was told that this was a good thing because I can set the resolution to 1024x768 on the xbox and I will get 1:1 pixel mapping or something, however when I do 1024x768 I'm getting 1 or 2 rows of missing pixels on the right side of the screen. When I set the xbox to 1360x768 however, I DO get all of the pixels used. I'm basically just confused about this and was wondering if anyone knows why this is the case when 1024x768 should be right.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-14-2012, 11:17 PM
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Your blacks won't really get any darker then what they are now.
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post #3 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 12:18 AM
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For reference, LGs don't have anywhere near as good black levels as plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung.
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 09:13 AM
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That and he got a cheap 720 plasma. Nothing wrong with that. Just don't expect nice blacks with them. You have to pay a premium to get the blacks you really want.
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 09:41 AM
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Return your tv and invest a little more for a 42inch st30 it's the best 42 in the market period .
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys, since I'm a little strapped for cash I was curious about how much better the blacks would be on the the sammy and panny entry-level plasmas. Would the pn43d450 or the tc-p42x3 be noticeably blacker? The blacks are a pretty big deal to me because I have sensitive eyes for it.

I checked a tech site and they said my lg black level were 0.12 and the pn51d450 has 0.03 black levels, so I'm wondering if that would look a lot blacker.

Last thing is I hear it may be possible to pot tweak blacks in lg plasmas, is that possible with my set?

Thanks.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post

Thanks for the info guys, since I'm a little strapped for cash I was curious about how much better the blacks would be on the the sammy and panny entry-level plasmas. Would the pn43d450 or the tc-p42x3 be noticeably blacker? The blacks are a pretty big deal to me because I have sensitive eyes for it.

I checked a tech site and they said my lg black level were 0.12 and the pn51d450 has 0.03 black levels, so I'm wondering if that would look a lot blacker.

Last thing is I hear it may be possible to pot tweak blacks in lg plasmas, is that possible with my set?

Thanks.

I am pretty sure this pot tweaking works on all 2011 and 2010 sets, even on the earlier ones. If you're brave enough to remove the rear cover of your tv and make two simply adjustments, I would say go for it

There seems to be some variations on the final achieved black levels, but most of them are around 0,03cd/m2 depending on the refresh rate.
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post

Thanks for the info guys, since I'm a little strapped for cash I was curious about how much better the blacks would be on the the sammy and panny entry-level plasmas. Would the pn43d450 or the tc-p42x3 be noticeably blacker? The blacks are a pretty big deal to me because I have sensitive eyes for it.

I checked a tech site and they said my lg black level were 0.12 and the pn51d450 has 0.03 black levels, so I'm wondering if that would look a lot blacker.

Last thing is I hear it may be possible to pot tweak blacks in lg plasmas, is that possible with my set?

Thanks.

If those numbers are accurate (and let me emphasize "if" as that value sounds a little too good to be true for a 51" Samsung), you would see a night and day difference in a dark viewing environment.
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-15-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post

1. I keep hearing about the black levels of plasma's and this may not be realistic but I was hoping that the screen's blacks would look "panel" black, like the black of the panel on the front of the tv. This is not the case with my lg and even though the blacks are good I thought they would be better, so I didn't know if maybe there are certain calibration things I'm supposed to do to make the blacks blacker. Does anyone have advice on this?

I think "black level" might be a term that should be put to pasture. Too many people say it and don't really grok what it means. Be a little less concerned about what a flat black screen will show up like on your plasma and pay more attention to details that can be seen in dark areas. This is what black level really amounts to, and actually it's even more pervasive than that. An accurate black level leads to more proper colour, in other words, if the black level is off, then every colour on the screen will be a little off as well. The reviews that I see for this screen seem to show it has good colour performance, so I would expect that it should have good black level--as any plasma should.

You won't have perfect black levels with a plasma, but they should be as good as you can manage without breaking the bank for OLED, which is what we're all waiting for, and what some of us fear may never become a reality. When you don't have good black levels going on, you know it pretty quickly, and not just from watching a blank, black screen displaying either. The entire image will have a washed out appearance to it.

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2. I hook my xbox 360 up to this via the vga port with my xbox 360 hd vga cable and I was told that this was a good thing because I can set the resolution to 1024x768 on the xbox and I will get 1:1 pixel mapping or something, however when I do 1024x768 I'm getting 1 or 2 rows of missing pixels on the right side of the screen. When I set the xbox to 1360x768 however, I DO get all of the pixels used. I'm basically just confused about this and was wondering if anyone knows why this is the case when 1024x768 should be right.

I don't know the specifics of your model, but most televisions that have a 1:1 feature will have a setting to do just this, selectable in some menu. Poke around for that and see what you can find. I would not expect that a consumer plasma TV would have this 1:1 feature available for VGA inputs--I have seen it before but only in plasma monitors. Of course if you can find it in a menu or in your user manual then it should just work once you activate it.

Very odd that a consumer TV with a resolution of only 1024x768 would work with 1360x768 though, a lot of them only go as high as 1024. If you are seeing it fill the screen with that resolution used, then it would have to be your TV scaling the image down to fit, no 1:1. Anyway what I meant to say is, for consumer TVs I normally find the 1:1 pixel mapping option is set for either component or HDMI inputs, so check your model's specifics and see where it is usable. (If it even has it.)
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post #10 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Collusion View Post

I am pretty sure this pot tweaking works on all 2011 and 2010 sets, even on the earlier ones. If you're brave enough to remove the rear cover of your tv and make two simply adjustments, I would say go for it

There seems to be some variations on the final achieved black levels, but most of them are around 0,03cd/m2 depending on the refresh rate.

I tried pot tweaking it today for like 7 hours with many different recommended variations and this tv simply could not handle deeper blacks without the the pixels misfiring all the time or the screen looking like crap, so I packed it back up and am going to return it tomorrow and possibly grab the entry level samsung, the dn43d450.
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post


I tried pot tweaking it today for like 7 hours with many different recommended variations and this tv simply could not handle deeper blacks without the the pixels misfiring all the time or the screen looking like crap, so I packed it back up and am going to return it tomorrow and possibly grab the entry level samsung, the dn43d450.

Your better of getting a cheaper LCD vs a cheaper plasma if blacks are your main concern.

Although cheap vs cheap. Plasma usually has the better picture. Just worse blacks. Pick your poison kinda deal.

That Samsung you plan to get wont gave any darker blacks then the set your taking back. Blacks will look grey. I know. I've owned it lol.
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 11:33 AM
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Your better of getting a cheaper LCD vs a cheaper plasma if blacks are your main concern.

Although cheap vs cheap. Plasma usually has the better picture. Just worse blacks. Pick your poison kinda deal.

That Samsung you plan to get wont gave any darker blacks then the set your taking back. Blacks will look grey. I know. I've owned it lol.

I can't comment on the Samsung specifically, but a European review site measured the Panasonic 42C3 at ~0.011fL (which sounds somewhat believable--I'd imagine the X3 performs similarly if not identically). That is in contrast to ~0.035fL he quoted for the LG. That would certainly be a massive improvement if the values are accurate. I'm not sure there is any bargain LCD that would out perform that C3 in a dark room, though for a similar price you could probably opt for a 1080p 40" LCD.
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Your better of getting a cheaper LCD vs a cheaper plasma if blacks are your main concern.

Although cheap vs cheap. Plasma usually has the better picture. Just worse blacks. Pick your poison kinda deal.

That Samsung you plan to get wont gave any darker blacks then the set your taking back. Blacks will look grey. I know. I've owned it lol.

I've tried lcds, the best I've owned is probably a pansonic viera 32" but the reason why they bugged me was the backlight bleed was often unbearable to me, I've been looking for better lcds until a month ago when I looked into plasmas and heard that they are the way to go if you like deep blacks and no bleeding.

Is this wrong? I thought the consensus was the most 400-500$ plasmas would blow 400-500$ lcds or led-lcds black levels out of the water.

Also like I said, have you owned the lg, because I hear good things about samsungs black levels being pretty strong (4x blacker than lg) and lg's being very crappy for a plasma tv.

I'm getting the black level info from www.televisioninfo.com, it seems like a credible site that uses advanced testing tools. They says the average black level for the TC-P42X3 was 0.05 cd/m2, the samsung is 0.03 cd/m2, and the lg that I'm taking back has a 0.12 cd/m2.

I understand I can achieve really good blacks with more expensive versions but I guess to specify what I'm looking for is the best of entry level affordable plasmas, which I believe the only 3 that are mainstream are the ones I listed above.
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post


I've tried lcds, the best I've owned is probably a pansonic viera 32" but the reason why they bugged me was the backlight bleed was often unbearable to me, I've been looking for better lcds until a month ago when I looked into plasmas and heard that they are the way to go if you like deep blacks and no bleeding.

Is this wrong? I thought the consensus was the most 400-500$ plasmas would blow 400-500$ lcds or led-lcds black levels out of the water.

Also like I said, have you owned the lg, because I hear good things about samsungs black levels being pretty strong (4x blacker than lg) and lg's being very crappy for a plasma tv.

I'm getting the black level info from www.televisioninfo.com, it seems like a credible site that uses advanced testing tools. They says the average black level for the TC-P42X3 was 0.05 cd/m2, the samsung is 0.03 cd/m2, and the lg that I'm taking back has a 0.12 cd/m2.

I understand I can achieve really good blacks with more expensive versions but I guess to specify what I'm looking for is the best of entry level affordable plasmas, which I believe the only 3 that are mainstream are the ones I listed above.

Cheap plasma blacks are often worse or at least appear worse then a cheap LCD. It's all about which is more important to you.
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post

I've tried lcds, the best I've owned is probably a pansonic viera 32" but the reason why they bugged me was the backlight bleed was often unbearable to me, I've been looking for better lcds until a month ago when I looked into plasmas and heard that they are the way to go if you like deep blacks and no bleeding.

Is this wrong? I thought the consensus was the most 400-500$ plasmas would blow 400-500$ lcds or led-lcds black levels out of the water.

Also like I said, have you owned the lg, because I hear good things about samsungs black levels being pretty strong (4x blacker than lg) and lg's being very crappy for a plasma tv.

I'm getting the black level info from www.televisioninfo.com, it seems like a credible site that uses advanced testing tools. They says the average black level for the TC-P42X3 was 0.05 cd/m2, the samsung is 0.03 cd/m2, and the lg that I'm taking back has a 0.12 cd/m2.

I understand I can achieve really good blacks with more expensive versions but I guess to specify what I'm looking for is the best of entry level affordable plasmas, which I believe the only 3 that are mainstream are the ones I listed above.

It's possible the Samsung value is accurate, but the reason I question it is because 0.03cd/m2 is on par with an ST30 or 59/64D7000/8000 (pretty much the third best MLL you can buy new, right behind a VT30 and GT30). Samsung's smaller size PDP's (e.g. 42", 51") have consistently enjoyed a reputation of much poorer black levels than the larger sizes for the past few years. It would be pretty surprising to see a 42" low end model hit such a respectable benchmark, though I suppose it's possible that the 720p or 42" models are somehow more efficient in this regard. It is very difficult finding reputable data on this tier of PDP.
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-16-2012, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

Cheap plasma blacks are often worse or at least appear worse then a cheap LCD. It's all about which is more important to you.

As a heavy gamer and hd movie watcher which screen would you recommend for me, lcd or plasma?

Is there any site that talks about or shows accurate blackness in lcds and plasma you are talking about?

Too be the most concise I can be, I'm definitely not a videophile but the only thing that always stands out to me and my eyes are sensitive to are blacks on a screen. I couldn't really tell the difference in pq between a 42" 720 plasma and a 42" 1080 lcd, I also can't really tell the difference in color quality, whiteness, and many other things.

The MAIN thing for me just seems to be the depth of black on a screen, and in relation to that I am sensitive to backlight bleed as it makes parts of the black screen look crappier.

Thanks.
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-17-2012, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jboom91 View Post

As a heavy gamer and hd movie watcher which screen would you recommend for me, lcd or plasma?

Is there any site that talks about or shows accurate blackness in lcds and plasma you are talking about?

Too be the most concise I can be, I'm definitely not a videophile but the only thing that always stands out to me and my eyes are sensitive to are blacks on a screen. I couldn't really tell the difference in pq between a 42" 720 plasma and a 42" 1080 lcd, I also can't really tell the difference in color quality, whiteness, and many other things.

The MAIN thing for me just seems to be the depth of black on a screen, and in relation to that I am sensitive to backlight bleed as it makes parts of the black screen look crappier.

Thanks.


Well other then a full on LED (not that edge lit crap), plasma should be the best option.

I would try to at least get a Panasonic PxxS30. Black levels, Screen uniformity, and motion performance are all very strong suits of these tvs.



Quote:


The TC-P50S30 has a very uniform screen, both while displaying an all-black screen and an all-white one. There are no flares or static splotches, but sometimes there can be a little added noise.

Quote:


The TC-P50S30 has about as good motion performance as anyone can ask for, scoring high marks in smoothness. In each of our test patterns, the TC-P50S30 didn’t show any major issues with artifacting or stair-stepping, and it handled the refresh in image well.

http://www.televisioninfo.com/conten...DTV-Review.htm
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-17-2012, 05:03 AM
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You DO NOT want an S30. Those sets are complete crap. And I'm speaking from personal in home experience. It's blacks are pretty good. Nice and black. Great for its price. But that's about it. It has a constant flicker when watching any sports. It would be ok if it were a gaming only set. But any real content isn't the greatest. I have a 60S30 that will be leaving my home within the next few hours because of the horrible flicker.

No game mode. I just don't like it. If it didn't have the flicker. I'd probably keep it. But that isn't the case. It wasn't a problem I had to look for. It was visible clear as day. Everyone who came over to watch the game saw the problem.
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-17-2012, 06:19 AM
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And this whole thread is why getting information on forums isn't the best idea. As soon as I read "I hear LGs are nowhere near as good as Pannys and Samsungs" or "I hear LGs have crappy black levels" etc. the thread loses all credibility. I'm being a little defensive of LG because I have a 50PV450 but every single person that has left my home (videophiles and non-videophiles) have said that my TV looks absolutely stunning. I did do the pot adjustments but even before that the colors on my PV450 were incredible. Yes, I agree that it's crazy to have to open the panel to get darker black levels but if you read the LG Black level tweaks thread you will see people getting near Kuro black levels on TVs that are hundreds of dollars less than Panny and Samsungs. Not everyone can spend the kind of money a higher-end TV demands. And not everyone wants to open their panel either. So definitely get a TV that makes you happy but I think we need to stop the LG FUD on AVS Forums because it is now possible to tweak an LG plasma to some seriously stunning levels. Phew .

e
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-17-2012, 06:28 AM
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And this whole thread is why getting information on forums isn't the best idea. As soon as I read "I hear LGs are nowhere near as good as Pannys and Samsungs" or "I hear LGs have crappy black levels" etc. the thread loses all credibility. I'm being a little defensive of LG because I have a 50PV450 but every single person that has left my home (videophiles and non-videophiles) have said that my TV looks absolutely stunning. I did do the pot adjustments but even before that the colors on my PV450 were incredible. Yes, I agree that it's crazy to have to open the panel to get darker black levels but if you read the LG Black level tweaks thread you will see people getting near Kuro black levels on TVs that are hundreds of dollars less than Panny and Samsungs. Not everyone can spend the kind of money a higher-end TV demands. And not everyone wants to open their panel either. So definitely get a TV that makes you happy but I think we need to stop the LG FUD on AVS Forums because it is now possible to tweak an LG plasma to some seriously stunning levels. Phew .

e

They are no wear near KURO blacks. Don't fool yourself. It's just a drastic change from factory to pot tweaks. Reason people say LG blacks sucks is because it's true.

You had to tweak your tv to achieve those blacks. The Panasonic S30 has the same blacks the LG has post tweaks.

Don't get me wrong. The LG isn't a bad tv. Colors are great. That being said the reflection is worst I've seen to date and it's bad blacks give its overall picture a washed out effect on dark content.
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post #21 of 22 Old 01-18-2012, 11:08 AM
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You DO NOT want an S30. Those sets are complete crap. And I'm speaking from personal in home experience. It's blacks are pretty good. Nice and black. Great for its price. But that's about it. It has a constant flicker when watching any sports. It would be ok if it were a gaming only set. But any real content isn't the greatest. I have a 60S30 that will be leaving my home within the next few hours because of the horrible flicker.

No game mode. I just don't like it. If it didn't have the flicker. I'd probably keep it. But that isn't the case. It wasn't a problem I had to look for. It was visible clear as day. Everyone who came over to watch the game saw the problem.

You cant say every S30 is crap because you got a bad set...
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-18-2012, 12:28 PM
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You cant say every S30 is crap because you got a bad set...

It wasn't a bad set. That is the quality of the set. Don't speak of what you don't know.
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