Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 1615 Old 08-10-2012, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

It would be helpful if a bit of specific data is supplied by those who are seeing a return of the fluctuating brightness.
As a minimum, please let us know what is the TV size/model, the source of the video, the picture mode being used, and the settings of the Cell, Contrast, Brightness, Gamma.
Thanks,
Larry

Tv: PS59D8000
source: HDMI (ps3) and usb.
Picture mode: Movie
Cell: 16
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 56
Gamma: 0
Hours of use: 800 when pops returned
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post #1352 of 1615 Old 08-10-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitto View Post

Tv: PS59D8000
source: HDMI (ps3) and usb.
Picture mode: Movie
Cell: 16
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 56
Gamma: 0
Hours of use: 800 when pops returned

Your Cell Light is only at 16 did you try 20?
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post #1353 of 1615 Old 08-10-2012, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1354 of 1615 Old 08-10-2012, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Cell light = 20 is a must for all Samsung plasmas. Won't affect any FBr but holds peak white higher during ABL

THANK YOU!
It's a silly feature and with any luck next year it will be gone.
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post #1355 of 1615 Old 08-10-2012, 07:40 PM
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Hi, zoyd.

I agree about setting Cell at maximum. If doing that requires a significant increase in the Cell value, a consequence is that the Contrast can be lowered to maintain the same peak output. And by lowering the Contrast there will be a slight reduction in the magnitude of the black level fluctuations. (I've found that lowering the Contrast by about twice half the increase in Cell works as a rule of thumb for high output settings.) Also, reducing Contrast below 95 will reduce any pinking that may be caused by clipping. So there possibly is something good to be gained all around by putting Cell at 20.

EDIT: Note the strikethrough.

Larry
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post #1356 of 1615 Old 08-11-2012, 11:11 AM
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59D6500
Source: HDMI from my computer playing downloaded tv episodes (the problem isn't with the source material I already checked) I don't really watch live tv so don't know if HDMI from my cable box is an issue. I haven't tried a blu-ray since the pops returned either.

Movie mode
Cell 20
Contrast 67
Brightness 65
Sharpness 10
Color 56
G/R 50/50
Gamma 0
Black Tone off
Dynamic contrast off
Expert pattern off
RGB only off
Edge enhancement off
Motion lighting off
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post #1357 of 1615 Old 08-11-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killerz298 View Post

59D6500
Source: HDMI from my computer playing downloaded tv episodes (the problem isn't with the source material I already checked) I don't really watch live tv so don't know if HDMI from my cable box is an issue.


I burn downloaded tv episodes and movies on a 'data' dvd
and play it on my Philips 3982 dvd player that plays
AVI MPEG and some MP4 files and MP3.
Any Philips dvd player that has the 'DIVX ULTRA' logo
can do this.
Another advantage here is useing the component input
to free up a HDMI.
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post #1358 of 1615 Old 08-11-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

I burn downloaded tv episodes and movies on a 'data' dvd
and play it on my Philips 3982 dvd player that plays
AVI MPEG and some MP4 files and MP3.
Any Philips dvd player that has the 'DIVX ULTRA' logo
can do this.
Another advantage here is useing the component input
to free up a HDMI.
I am a bit confused. Why is this an advantage over direct HDMI output from my computer? Are you trying to say that the component input DOESN'T have this issue?
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post #1359 of 1615 Old 08-11-2012, 03:38 PM
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I. can't. take. it. anymore.

The pops have been getting progressively worse, to the point now where I'm often getting rapid flashing. It's beyond distracting. I swear that it flashes faster (and seemingly brighter) than a strobe light.

QUESTION -- I see people talking about getting -panels- replaced. What does that mean? Does that mean the entire TV set gets replaced, or that they just pop out the plasma screen and swap in a new one?

Secondly, I hear that they are sometimes replacing D panels with the E series. If this is the case, does that mean that they (might) take my D series panel out and put in an E series? Or would the entire set be replaced?

I'm confused as to if that'd even be possible -- putting in a newer model's panel into an old model's system. Additionally, if they would mix and match a newer panel to an older model like that, what would the TV then be officially classified as?
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post #1360 of 1615 Old 08-11-2012, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killerz298 View Post

I am a bit confused. Why is this an advantage over direct HDMI output from my computer? Are you trying to say that the component input DOESN'T have this issue?

it has nothing to do with a FBr fix it's just a cool way to free up a HDMI.
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post #1361 of 1615 Old 08-12-2012, 05:31 AM
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I applied the FBR fix 6 months ago, and the FBR was greatly reduced. However, in the past month its been steadily returning and now it's about as bad as it has ever been. So incredibly distracting and annoying. Guh..
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post #1362 of 1615 Old 08-12-2012, 06:30 AM
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Without fail I get the pops on HD downloaded episodes of Law and Order SVU. I guess because the officers always wear black and there are many dark scenes in the show. I also get them constantly on downloaded episodes of Weeds without fail.
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post #1363 of 1615 Old 08-14-2012, 04:25 PM
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I've noticed them this past Summer as well on my set that I received in February of this year. My main source is my Playstation 3 via HDMI which is used for streaming (Netflix, MLB.TV, Hulu Plus) and Blu-Ray playback. The FBr has returned on everything and has only stopped while watching compatible sources capable of engaging Cinema Smooth (e.g. 24p playback).

My simple settings are below:

Movie mode
Cell 20
Contrast 82
Brightness 56
Sharpness 0
Color 50
G/R 50/50
Gamma 0
Black Tone off
Dynamic contrast off
Expert pattern off
RGB only off
Edge enhancement off
Motion lighting off

Any recommendations? Though it appears this is truly a problem as mine were gone for about 800-1000 hours before returning post logic board update shortly after receiving the unit. While I recall the FBr being worse before the initial logic board update, it has certainly returned and while not AS bad as I remember, still pretty terrible and I'm fearing it will get worse (e.g. to the point it was when I first received it and had not yet applied the update).

I really wish Samsung would address this, or at the very least offer us a upgrade path to the E-series (like switching to a 60E8000 for $500 or something). Of course, ideally this would be covered by warranty and they'd either find a permanent fix or offer us a E-series as they have done with some people on this forum it sounds like.

Also note, I don't comment on here often and mostly lurk - but this issue is so huge in my opinion that even I couldn't keep quiet and had to chime in. My previous Panasonic Plasma never had this issue, or at least not to an extent I ever noticed (2007 or 2008 Costco-specific model). Now I'm regretting not going that route again with a ST/GT30 or waiting for the much improved ST/GT50's.

For a few glorious months however, this TV has been wonderful - and in some cases with Cinema Smooth engaged it still is - except Cinema Smooth on the D-series causes noticeable worsening of blacks, which is something else I think the E-series rectified (but of course, doesn't help us...).

ETA: The FBr is much more noticeable/distracting in 4:3 or letter boxed content (aka anything that's not 16:9, though 1.66:1 and 1.85:1 aren't bad). Unfortunately, that is a majority of the content I watch...
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post #1364 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 10:17 AM
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@winklepr

Arghhh, this is so disappointing. I need to watch some more content to see if mine has returned to the point where I just can't take it anymore. I really don't want to deal with Samsung sending tech's out to swap out parts that won't fix the problem and probably only create new ones. I'd definitely deal with one of those hideous claw stands on the E series if Samsung would offer it to me so I wouldn't have to deal with these pops anymore - but I think offering me an upgrade is extremely unlikely.

You'd think a 46 page thread on a popular website like this would have been enough to make them realize this was a serious issue. Right now I'm really regretting not being patient enough to wait for the GT50 to release.
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post #1365 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 10:56 AM
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Can anyone help me out? I, for the life of me, cannot get ruSsamsungCommunicator to work...

I have disabled my firewall and anti-virus (AVG), as well as ensuring network remote control is enabled per the instructions. I click through, it finds my tv, does some stuff in my tray, then I get a message along the lines of "this version is expired". "Get the latest version", yes, "Up to date", then I get the .txt telling me auto-update didn't work. Essentially telling me to ensure my firewall and antivirus are disabled, which they were in the first place.

The brightness pops were driving my crazy (PN64D7000), but this fiasco with the factory remote emulator is bananas...

Anyone have any insight as to what may be going wrong?

Thanks.
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post #1366 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antione902 View Post

Can anyone help me out? I, for the life of me, cannot get ruSsamsungCommunicator to work...
I have disabled my firewall and anti-virus (AVG), as well as ensuring network remote control is enabled per the instructions. I click through, it finds my tv, does some stuff in my tray, then I get a message along the lines of "this version is expired". "Get the latest version", yes, "Up to date", then I get the .txt telling me auto-update didn't work. Essentially telling me to ensure my firewall and antivirus are disabled, which they were in the first place.
The brightness pops were driving my crazy (PN64D7000), but this fiasco with the factory remote emulator is bananas...
Anyone have any insight as to what may be going wrong?
Thanks.

Did you update your firmware? If I remember correctly, the communicator wouldn't work after the firmware had been updated.
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post #1367 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Did you update your firmware? If I remember correctly, the communicator wouldn't work after the firmware had been updated.

Was just about to edit my response with that info. I did manage to get 1014 loaded via the links from post 1. However, th tv only shows "1014"...not "1014.6"...

EDIT: Went into the service menu and confirmed T-MST5AUSC-1014.6
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post #1368 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 12:54 PM
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Ok, so you have installed the firmware that contains the "fix", so did you check to see if the Logic version has been updated? If it has, then there is no need to mess with the service remote emulator, the fix has been applied.

If you install the latest firmware direct from Samsung (1016 I believe), you will no longer be able to use the emulator.
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post #1369 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AvidHiker View Post

Ok, so you have installed the firmware that contains the "fix", so did you check to see if the Logic version has been updated? If it has, then there is no need to mess with the service remote emulator, the fix has been applied.
If you install the latest firmware direct from Samsung (1016 I believe), you will no longer be able to use the emulator.

I do not have the updated logic version (currently at 11-06-07) and confirmed I still have the brightness pops. I have not been able to get the emulator running on any version of firmware. These are the fw versions i have tried: 1012, 1014.6, 1013.1. I went right from 1014.6 to 1013.1 and got "stuck" but did a factory reset allowing me access to upgrade to either 1014.6 or 1016 again. I'm sitting at 1013.1 currently.

::sigh::
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post #1370 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 01:41 PM
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And for absolutely no reason at all, the emulator decided to connect. I am current with 11-11-04 and 1014.6.

Thank you guys for all the help. Let's see if this got rid of the problem...
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post #1371 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Antione902 View Post

And for absolutely no reason at all, the emulator decided to connect. I am current with 11-11-04 and 1014.6.
Thank you guys for all the help. Let's see if this got rid of the problem...

Should take care of the problem . . . until you hit the 800 hour mark or so . . . mad.gif
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post #1372 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Should take care of the problem . . . until you hit the 800 hour mark or so . . . mad.gif


Huh? I have well over 3000 hours on my 64D7000 and 1502 hours on my replacement panel. I have not observed any return of the FBr.

Larry
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post #1373 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 06:58 PM
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Well, I hope that Antione has the same luck as you. There seems to be quite a few others besides me that have had the issue return around the same time period.

I'm watching Jaws on Blu Ray now and the amount of pops happening are KILLING me - and I had been pop free since I applied the fix in early February.
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post #1374 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 07:16 PM
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I was not questioning what you see. I was surprised that you stated a firm time period where the "pops" will return. There is no proof for that whatsoever.

I performed the logic update on January 28th: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1389562/samsung-d-series-fbr-fix-discussion/90#post_21567786.


Larry
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post #1375 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Huh? I have well over 3000 hours on my 64D7000 and 1502 hours on my replacement panel. I have not observed any return of the FBr.
Larry

I wish I could say the same, though my panel is the 59" variant (PN59D8000 to be exact) and received my TV in February, applied fix in February, worked great until earlier this Summer... It's not noticeable during the day and extra light within the room, but at nighttime when it's quite dark its awfully distracting... luckily in the Summer it stays light until 9:00-10:00 PM over here. Of course I could leave a light on in my room while watching TV at night to kind of imitate the same ambient lighting, but who wants to do that?

I would like a follow-up on Poll on this issue though I fear there just won't be enough D8000 owners left or frequenting these forums as there were when the first poll for the fix was conducted. Additionally, it seems like a lot of people on here buy new TV's annually and as such may not have owned their D8000 long enough to have the FBr return. Nonetheless, maybe it's a model/panel specific issue and the 64" panels are less prone to their returning, since we do know the 51" panels were quite different then the 59/64" panels were in the beginning. Maybe later in the game the 64" really begin to show their worth?

If that's the case, then why oh why didn't I get a 64" D7000 for $300 more!? frown.gif
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post #1376 of 1615 Old 08-15-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I was not questioning what you see. I was surprised that you stated a firm time period where the "pops" will return. There is no proof for that whatsoever.
I performed the logic update on January 28th: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1389562/samsung-d-series-fbr-fix-discussion/90#post_21567786.
Larry

I've seen several other posters mention the 800-850 hour mark as around the same time period they started noticing their pops return.

Not enough evidence to prove anything, of course, but I don't think I was making a ridiculous statement or anything.

I apologize for using anecdotal evidence.
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post #1377 of 1615 Old 08-17-2012, 08:12 PM
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Okay. I just finished an experiment with my 64D7000.

Last night, I rolled back the software to the factory 1013.1, then updated to 1014.6, and finally to 1016.2. At each stage I used my specific source material test clip of Goodbye, Mr. Chips which showed very severe FBr before the logic update. In addition, I watched an episode of Game of Thrones and an episode of True Blood. That's a more than seven hours -- one viewing of each episode for each different SW version plus the time to change SW versions. I saw no FBr at all.

Tonight I just finished watching the original 1948 B/W release of Key Largo in 4:3 format on TCMHD. I went through all three SW versions repeating scenes where the side bars, for a better word, undulated very slightly -- so slightly that if I had not been looking for the variation, I would not have seen it. This is normal and has been noted since the start of this thread. However, there was no FBr and this is a movie that would have shown it.

For completeness: The TV has over 3000 hours on it and the panel's logic was updated for over 1500 hours.

I am completely baffled. I cannot repeat the results that others are seeing. (The 1933 release of Little Women is on TCMHD right now. It and the side bars are rock solid.)


Larry
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post #1378 of 1615 Old 08-18-2012, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Okay. I just finished an experiment with my 64D7000.
Last night, I rolled back the software to the factory 1013.1, then updated to 1014.6, and finally to 1016.2. At each stage I used my specific source material test clip of Goodbye, Mr. Chips which showed very severe FBr before the logic update. In addition, I watched an episode of Game of Thrones and an episode of True Blood. That's a more than seven hours -- one viewing of each episode for each different SW version plus the time to change SW versions. I saw no FBr at all.
Tonight I just finished watching the original 1948 B/W release of Key Largo in 4:3 format on TCMHD. I went through all three SW versions repeating scenes where the side bars, for a better word, undulated very slightly -- so slightly that if I had not been looking for the variation, I would not have seen it. This is normal and has been noted since the start of this thread. However, there was no FBr and this is a movie that would have shown it.
For completeness: The TV has over 3000 hours on it and the panel's logic was updated for over 1500 hours.
I am completely baffled. I cannot repeat the results that others are seeing. (The 1933 release of Little Women is on TCMHD right now. It and the side bars are rock solid.)
Larry

Very lucky and I am indeed envious. I turned off Cinema Smooth tonight to test again, this time watching JAWS on Blu-Ray. During the bright scenes (e.g. daylight like most of the film) it was completely fine. However, in the darker scenes like those underwater head scare scene and the U.S.S. Indianapolis scene it was back to it's old tricks fluctuating all over and sometimes so fast it was like a strobe-effect. As you can see, a majority of the movie I didn't notice it and was fine (of course, a majority of this movie takes place during the bright sunny day outside) but whenever the darker scenes were around, or those that went from dark to light frequently (as was the case in boat interiors at night with the swinging lights overhead) it did it's thing unfortunately.

I'm so distraught because it's gone if I engage Cinema Smooth but the worse black levels are very noticeable in my darkened room. On the other hand, turning it off to allow the better blacks causes FBr that is also very distracting in my darkened room. I don't know if I'll need to buy some ambient lighting and just stop watching in a darkened room altogether, keep cinema smooth enabled and "live" with poorer black levels, or keep cinema smooth off and try my hardest to ignore FBr when it happens... I'm wondering if E-series owners avoided this issue altogether because they can leave cinema smooth engaged without loss in black levels? I wish I could just go back in time to Spring when it seemed a logic board update gifted me with my favorite TV ever. At this point, I'm almost missing my 5-year-old Panasonic I sold after buying this one (except for it's smaller screen size of course, after going to 59" and regretting not going to 64" - I can't imagine ever going back to anything smaller!)
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post #1379 of 1615 Old 08-18-2012, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I am completely baffled. I cannot repeat the results that others are seeing. (The 1933 release of Little Women is on TCMHD right now. It and the side bars are rock solid.)
Larry

It's possible that what others are complaining about are the floating blacks and the ability to more easily pick them out over time. The panel black levels at 60Hz jump by a factor of 2 at 10-15% video APL with a time constant of 2-3 seconds. Prior to the logic board update that time constant was much shorter. This behavior is not going to change going forward so I see no point in further discussion.
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post #1380 of 1615 Old 08-18-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by winklepr View Post

Very lucky and I am indeed envious. I turned off Cinema Smooth tonight to test again, this time watching JAWS on Blu-Ray. During the bright scenes (e.g. daylight like most of the film) it was completely fine. However, in the darker scenes like those underwater head scare scene and the U.S.S. Indianapolis scene it was back to it's old tricks fluctuating all over and sometimes so fast it was like a strobe-effect. As you can see, a majority of the movie I didn't notice it and was fine (of course, a majority of this movie takes place during the bright sunny day outside) but whenever the darker scenes were around, or those that went from dark to light frequently (as was the case in boat interiors at night with the swinging lights overhead) it did it's thing unfortunately.
I'm so distraught because it's gone if I engage Cinema Smooth but the worse black levels are very noticeable in my darkened room. On the other hand, turning it off to allow the better blacks causes FBr that is also very distracting in my darkened room. I don't know if I'll need to buy some ambient lighting and just stop watching in a darkened room altogether, keep cinema smooth enabled and "live" with poorer black levels, or keep cinema smooth off and try my hardest to ignore FBr when it happens... I'm wondering if E-series owners avoided this issue altogether because they can leave cinema smooth engaged without loss in black levels? I wish I could just go back in time to Spring when it seemed a logic board update gifted me with my favorite TV ever. At this point, I'm almost missing my 5-year-old Panasonic I sold after buying this one (except for it's smaller screen size of course, after going to 59" and regretting not going to 64" - I can't imagine ever going back to anything smaller!)

The dark scenes in Jaws were particularly bad for me as well. The first scene where she is swimming at dusk almost made the letterboxes appear grey for some reason - I had never seen that effect before, but between that and the almost strobe light effect of the Indianapolis scene has me very concerned. I went from absolutely loving this set to feeling ripped off for paying almost 2 grand for it.

All I can do now is hope that the logic board somehow hits another threshold at a certain amount of hours that cause the issue to disappear again - I'm guessing that is probably unlikely.
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