Samsung D series FBr fix discussion - Page 54 - AVS Forum
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post #1591 of 1618 Old 06-05-2013, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Def was not a change in my brain when I kept having the Fbr return a few months after the "fix" was applied. I had certain scenes (for example the first scene in Jaws) that easily displayed the issue and then it would be fixed by the logic board update. Fast forward a few months and it always returned and this was confirmed by my wife, friends, and the various Samsung technicians that they sent out.

Despite many here claiming otherwise, it's pretty apparent that the Fbr "fix" didn't work permanently for at least some people that bought a D series and applied the fix. It was a shame because I loved that TV but I can't say I'm disappointed with the F8500.

Does the F8500 suffer from Fbr? I'm curious because I'm looking for a new bedroom TV and the F8500 was a definite consideration.
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post #1592 of 1618 Old 06-05-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JHummrich View Post

Does the F8500 suffer from Fbr? I'm curious because I'm looking for a new bedroom TV and the F8500 was a definite consideration.

Blacks float a little bit but nothing that you really notice.

I'll just say that so far it's been a night and day difference between the D series and the F8500.
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post #1593 of 1618 Old 06-05-2013, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Blacks float a little bit but nothing that you really notice.

I'll just say that so far it's been a night and day difference between the D series and the F8500.

Interesting thanks man. I still love the D8000 so that's good to hear about the latest.
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post #1594 of 1618 Old 06-05-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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While the F8500 can achieve very low mll in low APL scenes it actually floats black a little bit worse than my D8000. The mid-APL black level is 0.02 ftL for the F8500 that buzz measured and my D8000 is 0.014 ftL. It has a very smooth transition though so it may be harder to pick out. Details can be found here.
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post #1595 of 1618 Old 06-17-2013, 04:41 PM
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Wow great post Zoyd.
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post #1596 of 1618 Old 06-17-2013, 04:42 PM
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Does anybody else have a D8000 that sounds like it's cracking on the inside when you shut it off after it's been on for a while? It sounds like a house settling due to weather. I've also noticed a predominant Dirty Screen Effect while watching hockey and other things. I'm actually concerned that the anti glare filter is coming up and that's the noise/cause of the DSE. I don't see any bubbling but I've read that's a primary cause of DSE. I have 1 day left on my warranty so a tech is coming out on Wednesday. Looking for any advice on what to look for if the filter was actually peeling or coming up. I assume I would see it but you never know.

thanks!
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post #1597 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 12:54 PM
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Floating blacks are back on my 64D7000. I applied the logic board fix two months ago, at 644 hours, and it worked great. However, the issue is definitely back now; I started noticing over the last week or so, first time while watching the movie 3 Women. Last night I watched The Game, a movie I know well and have watched once after applying the fix, and it's pretty bad all of the sudden. The black bars become very visibly lighter quite often, to the point where it's distracting. I checked the hours on the set and it's at 816.

I did take a look at the scenes from The Matrix that I used to verify that the fix worked initially, and in those the blacks still don't rise as much as they did before I applied the fix. I'm guessing the thresholds have changed. But, and I'm fairly certain this isn't just in my mind, I'd say that overall the problem is now worse and more frequent than it ever was.

I could of course enable CinemaSmooth which does a good job at stabilizing the blacks. Unfortunately the price for that is well known...

I had toyed with the idea of upgrading but while the fix was still working I was actually very satisfied with the PQ and ultimately decided to wait a year or two. Now I don't know. One thing is certain; the mere mention of floating blacks in the F8500 threads has sent me running for the hills. Also, I'm on my third panel for this set and now the floating blacks are back; my own experience tells me that Samsung plasmas are highly unreliable, and I doubt I'll ever buy another one.

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post #1598 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 01:08 PM
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I believe the jumpling black levels are back in my D8000 too. I hate this set because it is so distracting. What a waste of money buying the high-end version of their set. I should have just bought the cheap one and pitched it every year.

Except, of course, in paranoid delusions for those that believe.
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post #1599 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazingly Smooth View Post

I believe the jumpling black levels are back in my D8000 too. I hate this set because it is so distracting. What a waste of money buying the high-end version of their set. I should have just bought the cheap one and pitched it every year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

Floating blacks are back on my 64D7000. I applied the logic board fix two months ago, at 644 hours, and it worked great. However, the issue is definitely back now; I started noticing over the last week or so, first time while watching the movie 3 Women. Last night I watched The Game, a movie I know well and have watched once after applying the fix, and it's pretty bad all of the sudden. The black bars become very visibly lighter quite often, to the point where it's distracting. I checked the hours on the set and it's at 816.

I did take a look at the scenes from The Matrix that I used to verify that the fix worked initially, and in those the blacks still don't rise as much as they did before I applied the fix. I'm guessing the thresholds have changed. But, and I'm fairly certain this isn't just in my mind, I'd say that overall the problem is now worse and more frequent than it ever was.

I could of course enable CinemaSmooth which does a good job at stabilizing the blacks. Unfortunately the price for that is well known...

I had toyed with the idea of upgrading but while the fix was still working I was actually very satisfied with the PQ and ultimately decided to wait a year or two. Now I don't know. One thing is certain; the mere mention of floating blacks in the F8500 threads has sent me running for the hills. Also, I'm on my third panel for this set and now the floating blacks are back; my own experience tells me that Samsung plasmas are highly unreliable, and I doubt I'll ever buy another one.

Samsung officially refunded me for D8000 after they replaced my panel twice and the 3rd one had a bunch of dead pixels. They originally replaced the mainboard because of fBR but that didn't fix it (naturally it wouldn't but they had "to try something") 14 months and they gave me the full amount that I originally paid which is the best customer service I can imagine.
What do you mean running for the hills when talking about FBR in the 8500 thread? I now have the 60F8500 and I couldn't be happier. Picture is absolutely stunning and black level is crazy good. I see absolutely ZERO floating blacks. It's absolutely the best TV yet.
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post #1600 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHummrich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazingly Smooth View Post

I believe the jumpling black levels are back in my D8000 too. I hate this set because it is so distracting. What a waste of money buying the high-end version of their set. I should have just bought the cheap one and pitched it every year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

Floating blacks are back on my 64D7000. I applied the logic board fix two months ago, at 644 hours, and it worked great. However, the issue is definitely back now; I started noticing over the last week or so, first time while watching the movie 3 Women. Last night I watched The Game, a movie I know well and have watched once after applying the fix, and it's pretty bad all of the sudden. The black bars become very visibly lighter quite often, to the point where it's distracting. I checked the hours on the set and it's at 816.

I did take a look at the scenes from The Matrix that I used to verify that the fix worked initially, and in those the blacks still don't rise as much as they did before I applied the fix. I'm guessing the thresholds have changed. But, and I'm fairly certain this isn't just in my mind, I'd say that overall the problem is now worse and more frequent than it ever was.

I could of course enable CinemaSmooth which does a good job at stabilizing the blacks. Unfortunately the price for that is well known...

I had toyed with the idea of upgrading but while the fix was still working I was actually very satisfied with the PQ and ultimately decided to wait a year or two. Now I don't know. One thing is certain; the mere mention of floating blacks in the F8500 threads has sent me running for the hills. Also, I'm on my third panel for this set and now the floating blacks are back; my own experience tells me that Samsung plasmas are highly unreliable, and I doubt I'll ever buy another one.

Samsung officially refunded me for D8000 after they replaced my panel twice and the 3rd one had a bunch of dead pixels. They originally replaced the mainboard because of fBR but that didn't fix it (naturally it wouldn't but they had "to try something") 14 months and they gave me the full amount that I originally paid which is the best customer service I can imagine.
What do you mean running for the hills when talking about FBR in the 8500 thread? I now have the 60F8500 and I couldn't be happier. Picture is absolutely stunning and black level is crazy good. I see absolutely ZERO floating blacks. It's absolutely the best TV yet.

I don't know how easy that will be for me. I bought my set new and received it June 2011. It is 2 years old now. I do have the BestBuy warranty, but what will they do. It is very hard to show.

Except, of course, in paranoid delusions for those that believe.
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post #1601 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHummrich View Post


Samsung officially refunded me for D8000 after they replaced my panel twice and the 3rd one had a bunch of dead pixels. They originally replaced the mainboard because of fBR but that didn't fix it (naturally it wouldn't but they had "to try something") 14 months and they gave me the full amount that I originally paid which is the best customer service I can imagine.
What do you mean running for the hills when talking about FBR in the 8500 thread? I now have the 60F8500 and I couldn't be happier. Picture is absolutely stunning and black level is crazy good. I see absolutely ZERO floating blacks. It's absolutely the best TV yet.

I just mean that I've seen it mentioned and that's enough for me. I'm just not willing to risk it again.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.

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post #1602 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 01:30 PM
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I should add that I will never buy a Samsung TV again. I knew I should have gone with the Panasonic, but they didn't have it in stock when I wanted it.

Except, of course, in paranoid delusions for those that believe.
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post #1603 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 01:43 PM
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I should add that I will never buy a Samsung TV again. I knew I should have gone with the Panasonic, but they didn't have it in stock when I wanted it.
It took me a while to decide between the VT60 and the F8500. Mainly because I was worried about fBR. However I couldn't get past the ridiculous bezel of the 2013 Panasonics. Silver lines??? How irritating. Overall the F8500 PQ plus the support that I've always been given from Samsung
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post #1604 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 02:06 PM
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I just chatted with Samsung support. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask and if they'd listened but said "Sorry, you're out of warranty", I would have lived with it. My two panel replacements (within warranty) were done fast and with no questions asked so although I have issues with Samsung product quality I've been satisfied with their service.

And then I get this:
Quote:
Samsung support person: Try to play any full screen video without any black bars.

Visitor: I have

Visitor: but most movies have black bars

Visitor: are you suggesting that Samsung TVs aren't supposed to work correctly with black bars?

Samsung support person: Yes, as this is an HDTV, you need to play full screen video(without black bars) to avoid the issues and to avoid screen burn issues.

[some back and forth with me expressing disbelief, asking for clarification etc...]

Visitor: again, please confirm that this is official Samsung messaging: "as this is an HDTV, you need to play full screen video(without black bars) to avoid the issues and to avoid screen burn issues."

Samsung support person: Yes, this is correct about plasma TVs.

I though folks here would want to know. Samsung TVs are not designed for content not taking up the entire screen...

JHummrich, I'm glad you had a good experience and I'm sure the F8500 is a great set.

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post #1605 of 1618 Old 07-24-2013, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

I just chatted with Samsung support. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask and if they'd listened but said "Sorry, you're out of warranty", I would have lived with it. My two panel replacements (within warranty) were done fast and with no questions asked so although I have issues with Samsung product quality I've been satisfied with their service.

And then I get this:
I figured folks here would want to know. Samsung TVs are not designed for content not taking up the entire screen...

I'm sorry you couldn't find resolution with Samsung, but I find thier response comical. They certainly never mentioned that my D8000 was for full screen viewing only when I bought it last year..
My D8000 has the floating blacks as well. I never bothered with firmware updates or fixes, since I've read that they are not always successful. I hate to say it, but I just learned to accept the FB. I still find the picture quality to be excellent on this panel overall, and the FB doens't bother me as much as it used to. We use the D8000 mostly for viewing HD channels on FioS, while our new VT60 is used mostly for bluray viewing.

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post #1606 of 1618 Old 07-25-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willieconway View Post

I just chatted with Samsung support. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask and if they'd listened but said "Sorry, you're out of warranty", I would have lived with it. My two panel replacements (within warranty) were done fast and with no questions asked so although I have issues with Samsung product quality I've been satisfied with their service.

And then I get this:
I though folks here would want to know. Samsung TVs are not designed for content not taking up the entire screen...

JHummrich, I'm glad you had a good experience and I'm sure the F8500 is a great set.

Oh wow... Samsung rep was completely useless there. The only way I can rationalize (being an apologist at this point) is to say that they were referring to Pillar boxed black bars. Still ridiculous to say either way. Their Executive Customer Service is a completely different department and can do amazing things. PM me if you want direct contact and are currently having trouble getting anywhere with a normal rep.


Quote:
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I'm sorry you couldn't find resolution with Samsung, but I find thier response comical. They certainly never mentioned that my D8000 was for full screen viewing only when I bought it last year..
My D8000 has the floating blacks as well. I never bothered with firmware updates or fixes, since I've read that they are not always successful. I hate to say it, but I just learned to accept the FB. I still find the picture quality to be excellent on this panel overall, and the FB doens't bother me as much as it used to. We use the D8000 mostly for viewing HD channels on FioS, while our new VT60 is used mostly for bluray viewing.

Honestly you should do the logic board update. At this point you would have to downgrade your firmware to apply it but in my opinion its totally worth it. Even though fBR went away and then returned, it never returned to the level that it started at. I have the firmware if you want it, you'll just have to downgrade to install it and then you can upgrade to the latest firmware since the logic board won't be touched.
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post #1607 of 1618 Old 07-27-2013, 07:12 PM
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Reducing light output helps quite a lot. I had my set at about 34 fL when the fluctuations returned in full force. Just for the fun of it I recalibrated it yesterday with a more or less randomly chosen target of 29 fL. I ended up at 28.8 fL and the blacks appear much more stable. My entry level meter doesn't go down far enough for me to quantify the improvement but I'd say that subjectively the fluctuations have been reduced by maybe 70%. Of course, I'm fortunate enough to watch my set in a light controlled room with no need for a high fL. This band aid isn't for everybody...

I now have these basics:

Cell 20
Contrast 76
Brightness 60
Gamma +1

JHummrich, thanks for the offer but I think I'll leave it here. I'm almost a year out of warranty and don't have the energy to pursue it. I really doubt I'd get anywhere. I do agree with your recommendation to do the logic board update. There are folks here who did it that have explicitly stated that the fluctuations did not return on their set. So, worth a shot in my opinion.

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post #1608 of 1618 Old 08-20-2013, 04:59 PM
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So while I've been aware of the Fbr issue since very shortly after I bought my PN64D7000 (2 years ago almost to the day, now), I had never experienced it to a degree that warranted attention until recently. Only in the last few months has it become a significant problem, and so now I'm going to proceed with the logic board update. Before I do though, I wanted to ask two questions:

  1. I never upgraded my firmware because of the potential of being forced in to a downgrade process to perform the logic board update. Thus, I'm still at firmware 1009.2. Since the logic board update can be applied while on any firmware, is there any reason for me to update my firmware, before or after the logic board update?
  2. While my Samsung Mfr. Warrant has obviously elapsed, I did purchase a SquareTrade warranty that is still in effect. Should I consider pursuing a warrant claim to perhaps receive an entire logic board replacement while this is still an option for me?


Thanks for the help, my apologies if my questions are redundant.
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post #1609 of 1618 Old 08-20-2013, 05:14 PM
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1. Don't upgrade the firmware before applying the logic update. If you do, you will have to roll the firmware back before doing the logic update. In the latest FW version, Samsung made it so you cannot use the remote emulator that is needed for the logic update on the D7000 series. After you do the logic update, you can install the latest FW but the only advantage is access to more apps. There are no performance improvements.

2. You can try to get a new logic board installed through the warranty company but I doubt that you will be successful.


EDIT: Since you have a low numbered FW version, you may have luck installing the 1014 FW/logic combo update linked to in post #1 of this thread.


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post #1610 of 1618 Old 09-25-2013, 08:58 AM
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I would like to thank Zoyd, TivoHD, LarryInRI and everyone else involved with this thread. I have been following it for quite awhile but just recently applied the fix, and I must say that I have really enjoyed the PQ of the set for the past 2 years but now the fix takes this TV to a new level. I have had my 59D8000 since May 2011 and loved the PQ coming from a 40A550 LCD. I bought an i1 display 2 and used the free HCFR software to perform a DIY calibration. I was so pleased with the way this set looked that I was not willing to chance updating the firmware to fix what I considered to be a minor annoyance when compared with the beautiful quality of the image. That said, over time I began to notice the fluctuations more and more. Especially when watching very dark content or movies in letterbox, the brightness “pops” became very apparent. Even to the point that family members, who had always commented on the quality of the picture, began to mention that the brightness “pops” occurring throughout the movie were distracting. Then in August I ended up giving away my very first 2006 Panasonic plasma to my sister in law going off to college so I was in the market for a new TV. I settled on the VT60 after reading numerous reviews and hearing about other people’s experiences with the set here on AVS (thanks again forum members!). This gave me the courage to go ahead and try the firmware update (I was still on 1018), I downloaded 1024.8 from the first post to a USB drive ensuring the folder was named properly and plugged it into the set. The difference was immediate; I put on the show Supernatural from the CW (one of our favorites with very dark material) which was one of the worst shows for fluctuations. There were none throughout an entire 1 hour episode, I was so happy I called my wife to come in the room and she couldn’t believe it. She said the pops always annoyed her, but she didn’t want to say anything about it since I had returned 2 TV’s prior to getting this one. We have watched numerous shows and movies (with letterbox) over the past 3 weeks and have yet to see a single pop. I have had my VT60 for almost a month and side by side it is apparent that the VT60 has deeper blacks, but the PQ on both sets is quite amazing and I think that with this fix applied the D8000 is at least in the same league as the VT60. I highly recommend that anyone with a D8000 perform this fix, if you haven’t already. You will be amazed at the difference in PQ, zoyd’s post #1594 in this thread details the performance of the much heralded F8500 compared to his D7000 and I can see why everyone is pleased with the image of that set because I believe my D8000 is probably very close to it now. I didn’t even have to input my calibrated settings after the firmware update, so there was really no hassle at all, thanks again.
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post #1611 of 1618 Old 09-25-2013, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1612 of 1618 Old 10-31-2013, 08:29 AM
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Hello,

I have had the PN51D550 for about 2 years, and despite the warnings in the first post I updated the firmware to 1019.5 found in the first post about a week ago. The brightness pops and murky blacks had just gotten too annoying for me. The brightness pops are gone and the black levels are much better, but it introduced the pixel misfiring problem. Not only are there specks of black in bright and white areas, like in the white part of the scrolling pattern, but there is also a "cloud" of yellow pixels that appear. As much as I think I see them (because I know they are there), I don't think that it is visible from viewing distance (my wife swears they are not visible and thinks I'm crazy for worrying about it). Also, a couple of times when I have started the set up, there have been lines of black stuck pixels across the upper left part of the screen that clear up quickly with the scrolling pattern or normal viewing. I can take a picture the next time this happens. I guess I can live with these issues because they're not really visible from normal viewing distance. My question really is, do you all think it will get any worse than it is now in time? I read a couple of posts about adjusting the yrr pot might clear up the issue, but I don't think I'm up to taking the back off of the set and messing with it unless it is my last possible option. This whole situation has me thinking that it is easy to make things worse by messing with them, even though I only applied a firmware update.

Here is a video of the problem:


Thoughts?
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post #1613 of 1618 Old 10-31-2013, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I can't really tell from the video what problems you may be encountering. Some stuck pixels and/or all-white sparkles when first powering on that clear up quick is very typical and not an issue. If you actually see magenta or yellow splotches in the white scrolling pattern that means Yrr is set too low (for this logic board upload) but I would not recommend any voltage adjustments if you are not comfortable removing the back panel.
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post #1614 of 1618 Old 11-19-2013, 03:46 PM
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I applied the 1014 update to my 64D7000 and it did not optimize and i check the logic board version and it was not updated. I wanted to try to do the manual board update now but the file link seems to be dead, http://db.tt/4KhHhupv . Does anyone have a copy of this file they could rehost?

Nevermind found another copy if anyone needs, http://filesmelt.com/dl/TCON.zip
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post #1615 of 1618 Old 11-26-2013, 01:28 PM
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I have non US PS51E557 series plasma. Any chance to fix brightness pops?

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post #1616 of 1618 Old 07-30-2014, 07:43 PM
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I'm one of the people with a black pixel misfire after applying the firmware fix. I, like the others I've read reporting, have a sort of cloud in the center where the pixel misfiring is greatest.

I finally got someone to give me a hand in taking the back off and watching for me while I turned the Yrr counter clockwise. I played a PowerPoint of a alternating colors until the transitions showed no lingering pixels. I had to turn the pot a full quarter of a turn before the misfires stopped. In rely concerned that this was too great of an increase!

My blacks are pretty bright now too. There is a noticeable glow to the screen when there is no signal. I get some green sparkles in pure black as well, mostly in the center.

In really looking for advice on how to precede. Should I turn it back some and split the difference? Leave it, is this voltage just too high?

I'm so sick of this goddamn TV. Something that was supposed to give me joy and relaxation, has given me years of stress and disappointment. At least opening it up and tweaking it was fun.
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post #1617 of 1618 Old 07-31-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staylorist View Post
I'm one of the people with a black pixel misfire after applying the firmware fix. I, like the others I've read reporting, have a sort of cloud in the center where the pixel misfiring is greatest.

I finally got someone to give me a hand in taking the back off and watching for me while I turned the Yrr counter clockwise. I played a PowerPoint of a alternating colors until the transitions showed no lingering pixels. I had to turn the pot a full quarter of a turn before the misfires stopped. In rely concerned that this was too great of an increase!

My blacks are pretty bright now too. There is a noticeable glow to the screen when there is no signal. I get some green sparkles in pure black as well, mostly in the center.

In really looking for advice on how to precede. Should I turn it back some and split the difference? Leave it, is this voltage just too high?

I'm so sick of this goddamn TV. Something that was supposed to give me joy and relaxation, has given me years of stress and disappointment. At least opening it up and tweaking it was fun.
I'm getting crazy amounts of "sparkles", in my blacks and in my blues. It's driving me insane. It's bad enough I almost want to file a lawsuit, as I got jerked around by Samsung with the warranty -- delayed, never called back, forgotten about, etc., until magically "Shucks! Sorry, dear customer, but you're now officially out of warranty, and not our problem or care any longer! Good luck!"

Nevermind that I had already had three prior warranty repairs on this same damn, infernal TV, and my recent request was still within the warranty period. Absolutely horrendous.
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post #1618 of 1618 Old 10-25-2014, 04:25 PM
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Necro'ing this thread to mention the firmware fix seemed to fix my FBr / brightness pops on my PN59D550.

No pixel issues that I've noticed so far!
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Samsung , Samsung Bd D7000 3d Blu Ray Disc Player Silver , Samsung Bd D6500 Za D6500 Serivce Blue Ray Disc Player 3d Stereo
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