I want to buy a TV... but you people have scared me! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-28-2012, 09:41 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought an LG 60PV450 (x2) and had the color flickering that's been talked about here extensively. I've been researching what I'm going to replace it with and every set I find I like has one, sometimes two, entire threads talking about dreadful defects and the pains you've all gone to solve them.

Why can't I just buy a TV and have it work? I'm completely deflated. Is it all just a gamble or is every set flawed?

Despite it's horrible aesthetics the ST30 seems to have fans.... whatever
*grumble*
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post #2 of 29 Old 01-28-2012, 10:00 PM
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My grandmother still has and uses her 25 year old zenith tv that works as good today as the day she bought it. That thing will probably outlast the samsung plasma I bought 2 months ago. :/
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post #3 of 29 Old 01-28-2012, 10:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Exactly. I can't stand LCD, but every plasma seems to be plagued. I'm genuinely worried that I can't make a plasma purchase that's not going to end with me on the phone with Amazon negotiating a return.
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-28-2012, 10:45 PM
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What percentage of plasma owners do you think are on this site?

.001%? less?

Now, do you think that's an accurate sample of the GENERAL owners satisfaction?

or the most picky and techie?

You will ALWAYS find unhappy people, especially online. Do you really think EVERY plasma owner is unhappy? has TV problems?

Do satisfied owners post online as much as unhappy owners?

Are Plasma owners more interested in perfection than LCD people? I dare say YES, considerably!!! Why are they looking at plasma anyway then? Because it's "worse" than LCD? or better?

What do the pro reviewers say? Which, LCD or plasma, do they generally rate at the top of PQ?

Finally, gotta think it through for yourself. If you go online about something and every time you find a few unhappy people you don't but "it". You won't be buying ANYTHING.

But for some many THAT'S the main reason to do research. Finding reasons....

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post #5 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 12:04 AM
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i wouldnt worry about it really. just buy a tv that gets mostly good reviews and call it good. my g20 buzzes ever so slightly, whatever. floating blacks? whatever, dont really notice any. my friends samsung 58c550 buzzes much louder, but i dont hear him complain and hes overly sensitive to stuff like that. he loves the tv.

most of this stuff is kind of exaggerated IMO.
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post #6 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 05:13 AM
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I would agree with the above posters. I have lurked here for many years and while this is definitely THE go to place for every bit of minutiae regarding home theater both good and bad, I certainly don't base my buying decisions soley on what is written here. If I did, I would still be watching 19 inch BW CRTs.

The fact is, most of today's electronics have about a 2-3% percent failure rate. In other words, you have at worst a 97% chance to buy a product that won't have any significant problems. This has been borne out by my own experience and by independent ratings groups like CR. In my 34 years in IT, I can't think of too many times I've had a server fail on me for any reason, and we are talking tens of thousands of servers. Unless its a design flaw, it just doesn't happen much. If it is a design flaw, it usually happens well within the warranty period.

A good example is the Panasonic rear projection I bought 10 years ago. It had a bad board and failed maybe two months after I got it. Did I post on the internet in rage saying that Panasonic sucks and their products are horrible and I'll never buy another? Nope. I picked up the phone and called Panasonic. It took the repair guy a while to get it fixed, but when all was said and done I got my set back as good as new and expertly calibrated by an ISF I happened to know from one of the forums I frequented back then. I JUST threw it out the other day. Know what I bought to replace it? Another panasonic... lol. I did that because panasonic still has the overall best picture quality and lowest failure rate of any consumer grade electronics company out there. Not that the 1-2% difference is really meaningful.

My advice is to do your research, read the technical sites that make their determinations objectively using instruments and measurements, but most of all, go with your eyes. If you like the PQ, then there you have it. Beyond that, use it a lot the first 30 days; if it doesn't explode and set the cat on fire, then chances are it will not fail for many years.

HTH.
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 06:38 AM
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To the OP, if you don't want to try a LCD I would suggest waiting until spring to get a plasma. You already found out first hand the issues with the LG line, Samsungs have similar FBR issues, and the panasonics have the green/pink issues. I am in the same boat, have the pv450 right now with color shifts, tried a st30 had IR and the green/pink issue. I guess if you have time to swap out until you find a good one, then go for it, otherwise I would wait for the 2012 models. I am having a sharp led delivered tomorrow and if it doesn't work out for me I will be waiting. I have been on these forums for years and yes, most issues are exaggerated, but for some reason the 2011 plasmas have lit up the forums this year more than what I have noticed in the past.
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jass5150 View Post

I would agree with the above posters. I have lurked here for many years and while this is definitely THE go to place for every bit of minutiae regarding home theater both good and bad, I certainly don't base my buying decisions soley on what is written here. If I did, I would still be watching 19 inch BW CRTs.

The fact is, most of today's electronics have about a 2-3% percent failure rate. In other words, you have at worst a 97% chance to buy a product that won't have any significant problems. This has been borne out by my own experience and by independent ratings groups like CR. In my 34 years in IT, I can't think of too many times I've had a server fail on me for any reason, and we are talking tens of thousands of servers. Unless its a design flaw, it just doesn't happen much. If it is a design flaw, it usually happens well within the warranty period.

A good example is the Panasonic rear projection I bought 10 years ago. It had a bad board and failed maybe two months after I got it. Did I post on the internet in rage saying that Panasonic sucks and their products are horrible and I'll never buy another? Nope. I picked up the phone and called Panasonic. It took the repair guy a while to get it fixed, but when all was said and done I got my set back as good as new and expertly calibrated by an ISF I happened to know from one of the forums I frequented back then. I JUST threw it out the other day. Know what I bought to replace it? Another panasonic... lol. I did that because panasonic still has the overall best picture quality and lowest failure rate of any consumer grade electronics company out there. Not that the 1-2% difference is really meaningful.

My advice is to do your research, read the technical sites that make their determinations objectively using instruments and measurements, but most of all, go with your eyes. If you like the PQ, then there you have it. Beyond that, use it a lot the first 30 days; if it doesn't explode and set the cat on fire, then chances are it will not fail for many years.

HTH.

I would agree with this except for the "go with your eyes" with just a few exceptions most store displays have an awful feed with some flame setting on the display, in an environment that is nothing like a home setting. So as logical as this statement seems it can rarely be useful.
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 07:01 AM
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This site is not for your run of the mill electronics consumer. You'll probably be happy with just about any set until someone points something out that is less than ideal based on certain parameters in technology or calibration charts. The problem begins if you listen.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
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post #10 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlevin View Post

I would agree with this except for the "go with your eyes" with just a few exceptions most store displays have an awful feed with some flame setting on the display, in an environment that is nothing like a home setting. So as logical as this statement seems it can rarely be useful.

Point taken. it is difficult to judge the true quality of a display while peering out from the underwear rack at Walmart. Most stores just toss them up on the wall and call it a day. Plus the content feeds are split between so many stores the picture quality is usually degraded. But if you are willing to seek out the few stores that go the extra mile (usually non-chain specialty stores) you can get a better idea of what the set can do. I would amend my comment to say that you should weigh all the evidence, then make your decision. Where I've lived, there were such stores, but YMMV.
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 07:19 AM
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Plasma is by far the best type of TV to buy. The colors are just stupid amazing . Dont fret over this. Buy a sammy or panasonic
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 07:37 AM
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There are a lot of ADD and OCD people on this site who I guess almost are at a point where they have problems enjoying there stuff. I have a Panny G10 and S2. I think they are both great. I don't look for their flaws despite all that have been pointed out on them in these forums.

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post #13 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 07:37 AM
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TV's be it LCD, LED or Plasma are like any other consumer product....not perfect, 100% free of issues and varies in price for a reason. Electronics are in a class of its own. What's new and the latest today is middle of the pack six or eight months from now. It's like those straggling the fence if they should by now or wait or the "new year model".


No-one can tell you per say what to buy based on their personal experince. If one has a relly bad experience does that make the TV a piece of cr#p. Bad news also goes much further than good. Best advice is go with what you want, your needs and budget. Consider all reviews and not just one. Read actual user reviews as well. Start out with say four or six models and narrow the list down using reviews like above. Get that list down two and using your needs, budget either one will be a winner. The worse thing anyone can do is buy on inpulse or when they see a "One day Sale" or "Today Only". There's always tomorrow or next week "One day Sales".
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 07:51 AM
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Looks like most of us agree, nothing is perfect and I believe the answer is mostly economics, yes the technology has improved but prices have dramatically dropped affecting the bottom line, we all want something for nothing, which in turn affects quality control and overall product consistency because something has to give.
Fortunately for the manufacturer the majority of consumers are happily ignorant of all this and any product failings are usually only are brought forward in forums like these.
We are talking about mass produced consumer products, high-end products only survive because of consistent quality control and the manufacturer sometimes reject more parts than they use but their prices are still constantly rising not falling
I've a modest, (in some circles) audio systems, but my plasma, BD player and Apple TV2 add up to lot less than any one of my other components, seriously a HDTV today is a relative bargain in my eyes even with some flaws.

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post #15 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earballs View Post

Exactly. I can't stand LCD, but every plasma seems to be plagued. I'm genuinely worried that I can't make a plasma purchase that's not going to end with me on the phone with Amazon negotiating a return.

A bit OT, but be careful with Amazon returns. They will regularly assess accounts and look at the value of returned vs non-returned goods. I had purchased only DVDs and books for years but had trouble with 2 TVs (unlucky with known defects).

The first was an easy return and the second was looking to be smooth too, but before they shipped the replacement they closed my account. I even sent them pics of the (obvious) defects but it didn't matter. Back and forth with them and they basically said they didn't care whether they were actually defective or not. It was all about the $$.

I know this isn't everyone's experience but it's happend to thousands of people over the years. They have some type of systemic dragnet that is designed to weed out abusive customers, but it inevitably captures people that aren't doing anything wrong and they don't care.
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post #16 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I already agree with most of what's been said here.

The person most likely to get on the internet and talk about his purchase is someone with a bad experience.

You have to judge based on your own eyes. I was happy with the 60" LG. It suited my needs just fine and I got for just under $1000. And I knew there was better stuff out there, but it didn't bother me at all. Shopping and being satisfied isn't a worry of mine.

Someone mentioned failure rates ~2-3%. That's one number I was curious about. I was starting to wonder if the people who rated it great were just oblivious to the problem. I'm sensitive to flaws in the image/performance, but I don't run tests on my monitors or anything.

As far as waiting until spring, won't the prices be much higher for the same quality/size? I don't want to go smaller than 60", but my budget is stretched at $1600. I was thinking I could get a better deal on a better quality panel before the 2012 models hit in March. Edit: and doesn't buying in March give me much higher chances of being a guinea pig?
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceX View Post

Plasma is by far the best type of TV to buy. The colors are just stupid amazing . Dont fret over this. Buy a sammy or panasonic

I can't decide if I want a TV with "stupid amazing" colors.
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 03:02 PM
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What I did.

Bought the one I wanted before anyone here changed my mind (again), and then:

Didn't come back here for a LONG while. I didn't want to read what everyone was saying about this flaw or that. If mine had any, I didn't notice. (And still don't.) And if I would have come back here, I'm sure I would have pulled out what hair I have left looking for all the imperfections the nit pickers had reported.

OBTW, my Pio plasma is nearing six years old and still looks as good as the day I bought it.
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post #19 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.DTS View Post

TV's be it LCD, LED or Plasma are like any other consumer product....not perfect, 100% free of issues and varies in price for a reason. Electronics are in a class of its own. What's new and the latest today is middle of the pack six or eight months from now. It's like those straggling the fence if they should by now or wait or the "new year model".


No-one can tell you per say what to buy based on their personal experince. If one has a relly bad experience does that make the TV a piece of cr#p. Bad news also goes much further than good. Best advice is go with what you want, your needs and budget. Consider all reviews and not just one. Read actual user reviews as well. Start out with say four or six models and narrow the list down using reviews like above. Get that list down two and using your needs, budget either one will be a winner. The worse thing anyone can do is buy on inpulse or when they see a "One day Sale" or "Today Only". There's always tomorrow or next week "One day Sales".

Best advice you'll ever read.
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 03:11 PM
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FWIW, my set does have 3 dead pixels that I can clearly see from 3" away.

Should I call for a repair??
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post #21 of 29 Old 01-29-2012, 03:16 PM
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It won't be much of a site if everyone was
bragging how good their TVs are.
I think there is a good balance here and info
is great.
Better informed equals
better buyer.
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 12:45 PM
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Reading all the issues that people have has certainly bought one criteria to near the top for me: where to buy could be more important then price.

A no hassle return policy is becoming a must.
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post #23 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 01:49 PM
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For something this size and at this price, I would agree with the above post.

Oh, and my dead pixels came to life yesterday...nothing left to complain about...
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 02:26 PM
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I'm in the same boat as many others here. I want to get a new HDTV in the next month or two. But reading all the negative posts does bring a small amount of fear into the decision. I currently have an early 90's 35" CRT (4x3) so any new HDTV would be an upgrade for me with a HD signal. As you can see, I don't upgrade often so that makes my buying decision that much harder. I bought my daughter a new Mits 60738 rptv last summer as one of their wedding gifts. I have had the chance to watch it many times and can say I would not need anything better for my new tv. The problem is mits only makes 73" and up now. I would like to get a 60 to 65" so I am also looking at plasma sets. I need a HDTV and new front left/right speakers and I will be ready for HD and 5.1 sound. I will say that with all the problem posts, that all the GOOD information I get from many of the GOOD people here still makes this a must read forum.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earballs View Post

I bought an LG 60PV450 (x2) and had the color flickering that's been talked about here extensively. I've been researching what I'm going to replace it with and every set I find I like has one, sometimes two, entire threads talking about dreadful defects and the pains you've all gone to solve them.

Why can't I just buy a TV and have it work? I'm completely deflated. Is it all just a gamble or is every set flawed?

Despite it's horrible aesthetics the ST30 seems to have fans.... whatever
*grumble*

Get a D7000 or D8000 plasma pretty much all of the issues on it are fixed. (peeling screen, floating brightness)

Rock solid color and good gamma. Excellent working calibration controls.

Good luck. It's a fantastic TV, either one of them.

-SiGGy
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post #26 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 03:16 PM
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I've been swayed a lot on this as well. Honestly, if I never read anything on this site, I'd probably still have my panny GT30. Once I heard about green blobs, I looked for 'em. and BARELY found one. But since I'm OCD, I had to return it.

I started reading about D7000 problems (my replacement set). But then I also realized it got CNETS best overall set for 2011, and the reviewer addressed the issues and still said he'd buy it. I've now stopped looking for related threads. I'm trying to tell myself that when the new set comes in... to just enjoy it and if anything sticks out, I'll address it. We're supposed to enjoy these things... not scrutinize everything.

I feel like once you start looking for problems, you find them. And then you post on the forum about a tiny little pixel that looks a slight tinge of green.
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post #27 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejewels View Post

I've been swayed a lot on this as well. Honestly, if I never read anything on this site, I'd probably still have my panny GT30. Once I heard about green blobs, I looked for 'em. and BARELY found one. But since I'm OCD, I had to return it.

I started reading about D7000 problems (my replacement set). But then I also realized it got CNETS best overall set for 2011, and the reviewer addressed the issues and still said he'd buy it. I've now stopped looking for related threads. I'm trying to tell myself that when the new set comes in... to just enjoy it and if anything sticks out, I'll address it. We're supposed to enjoy these things... not scrutinize everything.

I feel like once you start looking for problems, you find them. And then you post on the forum about a tiny little pixel that looks a slight tinge of green.

Congratulations, you are now more knowledgeable about these products, and what you're willing to put up with. That's what these forums are for. To find out the best and worst about things.
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post #28 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 06:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earballs View Post

I bought an LG 60PV450 (x2) and had the color flickering that's been talked about here extensively. I've been researching what I'm going to replace it with and every set I find I like has one, sometimes two, entire threads talking about dreadful defects and the pains you've all gone to solve them.

Why can't I just buy a TV and have it work? I'm completely deflated. Is it all just a gamble or is every set flawed?

Despite it's horrible aesthetics the ST30 seems to have fans.... whatever
*grumble*

Thats what happens when you buy korean
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post #29 of 29 Old 01-31-2012, 07:29 PM
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I came to this site just as green as can be about home theater 4 years ago. I was looking into getting my first big screen. Did not even know if it should be LCD or plasma. I read and read and read this site for days/weeks. Finally decided to go plasma from what I read. Good choice me thinks . Then I read and read and read some more about Panasonic, Pioneer, and Samsung which seemed to be the most highly rated and fawned over by the board posters. Read some more and narrowed down to Panasonic and Pioneer. Finally, being so green and this being a major purchase I had to pick the Panasonic for bang/buck reasons. Got the 58pz700u and could not be more satisfied all these years later. Never gave me a problem picture wise, the speakers rattled a bit but that forced me (thankfully) to explore 5.1 audio. One of the sweetest consumer purchases I have ever made. Love the panisonic. This site was a great steering tool for this green and still mostly green home theater dude.

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