Samsung Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 408 Old 10-17-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Here are the results of voltage tweaks on a 60F8500. Adjustments are available for Vs, Va, Vscan and Ve but only Vs and Vscan were found to have any effect on black levels.

Turning Vs down from the preset value of 209 to 190 volts reduced the black level for higher APL scenes and reducing Vscan from the preset value of -200 to -190 volts reduced the low APL scene blacks. The net reduction was 15%-20%

Other findings:
  • Reducing Vs also reduces peak white (about 10% in this case).
  • 24Hz playback with CS on has the best black level performance.
This is really cool Zoyd. Thanks for posting...it must have taken quite a while to run through all those measurements!

So I guess my F5300 APL measurements that I shared on the other thread did incorporate the benefit of MLL at higher APL from dropping Vs to the lowest possible value. It's also interesting to note that CS ON with 24Hz playback provides the best black level. I wonder why that is. Your findings might also explain the discrepancy in black levels measured by different folks on this set as some are measuring almost 2X the black level I get on a black screen and that could very likely be attributed to the difference between CS ON v/s OFF.

One thing you might want to check if you retained your Vscan tweak -> Try pulling up an all black screen. Then quickly pull up a white window. You should see the individual pixels firing up to turn white. This usually happens quite rapidly, but when I was experimenting with my F5300, I found that dropping Vscan led to longer turn-on times for some of the pixels. As a result, in certain intro scenes in movies or when using my HTPC, I could actually see artifacts with missing black pixels that are still waiting to turn on. That's why I set Vscan back to the recommended value. In my case, I am measuring ~ 0.007 cd/m2 black level so I don't really think I can benefit too much more with Vscan, but maybe I could drop down to ~0.0015 ftL from 0.0026 at the moment.
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post #392 of 408 Old 10-17-2014, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
This is really cool Zoyd. Thanks for posting...it must have taken quite a while to run through all those measurements!

It's also interesting to note that CS ON with 24Hz playback provides the best black level. I wonder why that is. Your findings might also explain the discrepancy in black levels measured by different folks on this set as some are measuring almost 2X the black level I get on a black screen and that could very likely be attributed to the difference between CS ON v/s OFF.
I'm guessing that the reset pulse width is a bit shorter to accomodate 96Hz refresh, too bad Yrr is not available.

Quote:
One thing you might want to check if you retained your Vscan tweak -> Try pulling up an all black screen. Then quickly pull up a white window. You should see the individual pixels firing up to turn white. This usually happens quite rapidly, but when I was experimenting with my F5300, I found that dropping Vscan led to longer turn-on times for some of the pixels. As a result, in certain intro scenes in movies or when using my HTPC, I could actually see artifacts with missing black pixels that are still waiting to turn on. That's why I set Vscan back to the recommended value. In my case, I am measuring ~ 0.007 cd/m2 black level so I don't really think I can benefit too much more with Vscan, but maybe I could drop down to ~0.0015 ftL from 0.0026 at the moment.
I've seen the delayed turn-on effect with my D-series but only from a cold start, once the panel warmed up the artifacts were not present. I'll see how it goes with this one and dial it back if there are any problems.

edit: I've also only got 20 hours on the panel so things may need to settle a bit first.

Some other things of note in the service menu - there are entries for enabling support for ND adjustment and save/restore CAL values. This sounds to me like external calibration settings control which would be nice. I'll have to poke around and see if it leads anywhere.

The PVR function can be enabled (to record off the DTV receiver) in the extended service menu as well as adjusting movie mode WB.
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Last edited by zoyd; 10-17-2014 at 10:32 AM.
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post #393 of 408 Old 10-20-2014, 05:40 PM
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Are there any voltage adjustments that I can make to a PN43F4500? I looked on the board on the right side and there are only two places to make adjustments.
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post #394 of 408 Old 10-23-2014, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
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What were they labelled? Your power supply board has the Vs resistor which you can adjust and your X/Y sustain board has a Yr5000 adjustable resistor. You'd have to test what effect that adjustment has, if it's a ramp adjustment like Yrr that would be good.
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post #395 of 408 Old 10-23-2014, 03:23 PM
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Good infRmation
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post #396 of 408 Old 10-28-2014, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I'm guessing that the reset pulse width is a bit shorter to accomodate 96Hz refresh, too bad Yrr is not available.



I've seen the delayed turn-on effect with my D-series but only from a cold start, once the panel warmed up the artifacts were not present. I'll see how it goes with this one and dial it back if there are any problems.

edit: I've also only got 20 hours on the panel so things may need to settle a bit first.

Some other things of note in the service menu - there are entries for enabling support for ND adjustment and save/restore CAL values. This sounds to me like external calibration settings control which would be nice. I'll have to poke around and see if it leads anywhere.

The PVR function can be enabled (to record off the DTV receiver) in the extended service menu as well as adjusting movie mode WB.
If you happen to have the back open again, maybe a few pics??? Gonna give this a go on my 64f8500.
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post #397 of 408 Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is your Y-Board with Vscan adjustment in the lower left quadrant.

Here is your power board with Vs in the upper right.

Note that the benefit is pretty slim (~15%) and that lowering Vscan has produced some misfires when a bright screen is pulled up after a dark screen (I haven't quite decided yet whether I care about that). Also, keep track of the screw locations if you do it, there are two different kinds.
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post #398 of 408 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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Thanks...well 15% in my book is pretty damn good! I'm thinking maybe I'll just lower values about 80% of what your adjustments are and see how that looks.
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post #399 of 408 Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Here is your Y-Board with Vscan adjustment in the lower left quadrant.

Here is your power board with Vs in the upper right.

Note that the benefit is pretty slim (~15%) and that lowering Vscan has produced some misfires when a bright screen is pulled up after a dark screen (I haven't quite decided yet whether I care about that). Also, keep track of the screw locations if you do it, there are two different kinds.
Did you say the PVR function could be enabled on north american F8500 tv's? Whats the setting?
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post #400 of 408 Old Yesterday, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I've tested recording from the tuner and it worked fine. It's a bit difficult to get to because you need to get to the extended service menu which requires either a factory remote or using wav_to_ir tricks to send the factory and 3speed command. Some more details can be found here. I'll post where in the menu it is when I get a chance.
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post #401 of 408 Old Yesterday, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Yes, I've tested recording from the tuner and it worked fine. It's a bit difficult to get to because you need to get to the extended service menu which requires either a factory remote or using wav_to_ir tricks to send the factory and 3speed command. Some more details can be found here. I'll post where in the menu it is when I get a chance.
Thanks. Wonder if the harmony remote can do it
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post #402 of 408 Old Yesterday, 06:24 PM - Thread Starter
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post #403 of 408 Old Yesterday, 06:53 PM
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Hey Zoyd, regardless of the mll tweak, do you know the correct voltages for each pot? And, If they are tuned to the correct voltages, can this reduce the buzz? My buzzing on my 60 isnt really a big deal if at all until everyone goes to bed and I have to lower the volume.

Samsung 60F8500
LG 55LHX
LG BH200
2 PS3's
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post #404 of 408 Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct voltages are printed on a chassis sticker after taking the back off but they don't have any affect on buzzing noise.
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post #405 of 408 Old Yesterday, 07:19 PM
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Just FYI if anyone has a harmony. The UE55ES7080 has 3speed and Factory in its database.

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Harmon...t/td-p/1296909

edit: its really funny the tv has a "CES" mode

Also i found PVR Support - OFF, is that the only thing that needs to be changed? Is there a list of anything on the 8500 that can be changed to enable more features?

I notice there is an EEPG enable and NTV 120hz support option.

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post #406 of 408 Old Yesterday, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent, thanks. Just added it as one of my smart control devices. info+factory will get you the extended service menu then go to Option->MRT option to enable PVR support.
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post #407 of 408 Old Yesterday, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cozmo85 View Post

Also i found PVR Support - OFF, is that the only thing that needs to be changed? Is there a list of anything on the 8500 that can be changed to enable more features?

I notice there is an EEPG enable and NTV 120hz support option.
PVR enable is all you need to turn it on, I haven't experimented with anything else besides the Movie WB settings. To get those you have to highlight Advanced and enter '0 0 0 0'
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post #408 of 408 Old Yesterday, 07:50 PM
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PVR enable is all you need to turn it on, I haven't experimented with anything else besides the Movie WB settings. To get those you have to highlight Advanced and enter '0 0 0 0'
Thanks man. This worked perfectly. Ill probably ditch my HTPC now.
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