Originally Posted by fierce_gt
in all honesty, ansi contrast means nothing to me, absolutely nothing. i've read forever how important it was, and took that on faith. but my projector has less than 200:1 ansi contrast, and it's ansi black levels are horrendous, but imo, it's 100x 'better' then almost every flat panel i've ever seen. when the scene is dark, that's when i need deep blacks, and while flat panels seem to do quite well at holding black, they don't get black when it counts, for me. it would appear that MLL, and on/off contrast are what I notice the most. in fact, the f8500's ansi contrast(when i crank the brightness and get over 10k:1) is more than my eyes can see. i actually start to lose shadow detail, even though the tv is displaying it, i can't see it. so it actually seems as though there's a limit to how much ansi contrast i would even want. yet another reason i have no interest, and maybe even a bit of fear, for HDR stuff. i'm already starting to experience the 'oncoming high beams at night' syndrome.
i'm hopeful oled will work out for me, but i do still truly miss crt. there were many times when i walked into the room, and heard a slight buzz and thought, 'oh man, i left the tv on, or did i?' and had to look close at the power button to see if it was in fact on or not. that just doesn't happen with a flat panel, haha, it's so obvious when it's on.
it's just a different world out there now. one can only hope that oled brings us back to a time when looking at MLL's is a waste of time(because they are all fantastic).
That's where we begin to agree to disagree. I'm actually trying to escape from CRTs not because of their mass,size, screen size limitation, because of poor ANSI performance. While my Sony Trinitron BVM did extremely well considering its limitation, there are so much inconveniences because it lacks so much ANSI. And after owning the Panasonic S64, I have finally seen what ANSI really means to the overall pictures. In that sense, I'm truly glad I get to own the Panasonic's final year plasma. I do not like CRT/FALD because of their 'all or nothing' presentation. Real world scenes do not revolve around such binary definition, hence why ANSI is very important. I'll give illustrations.
Let's first start off with a picture CRTs/FALDs do extremely well. When there is no importance to detail of black level, sure, they vastly outperform plasmas.
Now, this is where things get interesting. When seeing this kind of scene in real life, it evokes a feeling in one's mind. It's sunset, so I feel calm, melancholic, quiet, perhaps feeling a little forshadowing of what happens in afterlife as a sunset is followed by a night, etc. The average luminance for this scene should also be low because it's bordering photopic with mesopic vision (5fL) but the sun should still be brighter than other areas. Use this chart as a guide.
Now, if I see this scene on LCDs, it's Charlie's Chocolate Factory time! It will be bright seering red that has absolutely no bearing to its actual time. Absolutely fake! I know because I also owned Sony Bravia at one time. How about FALDs? No difference because it has no zone to turn off on this picture, so it will never have on/off contrast to help with! Maybe it could make the sun brighter than the rest, and cloud dimmer than the rest, but that's it. CRTs? If I manually adjust luminance lower, maybe it could work it out somehow as CRTs are able to reach lower in on/off than non-FALD LCDs, but it will still just look dim, not really natural at all as well. And unlike FALDs, CRTs cannot differenciate light output between the sun and the rest of the scene because of poor ANSI, it will be either all dim or all bright so the final picture will be two dimensional at best. Unlike FALDs/CRTs, plasmas can vary light output of each pixels, so the sun will stay relatively bright, cloud will stay dim, the rest of red scenes bordering on photopic/mesopic vision. So I'm essensially getting a free HDR with high ANSI alone. And if I see this scene on my Panasonic S60, I really get emotional, which is really surprising because I've never had such feelings when I was using CRTs, LCDs, and LG plasma. Samsung F5300B do manage to handle it up to certain degree, but still doesn't quite evoke same feelings when viewing on my Panasonic.
Rain is really hard to get right on many displays because again, it's bordering on mesophic vision. When I think of rain, I feel gloomy, feeling shivers down my spine, wanting to take a sip at Tim Hortons etc, and only my Panasonic plasma has successfully evoked such feelings when watching rainy scenes. Samsung F5300's not really good at gloomy, dim presentation, so it doesn't really evoke me the same feelings. Again, FALDs have trouble rendering this scene effectively as it can only dim it, but still can't get as low as CRT's on/off as long as zones are on. CRTs can only dim down to realistic level, but can't really provide any depth. BTW, on CRTs, presentation is really equivalent whether it's cloudy or raining or let up and sun is shining back slightly. They simply fail to provide any variation with regards to catering different vision. Plasmas can. On my Panasonic, I clearly know the difference between cloudy to rain because ANSI contrast ratio between those two is perfectly served.
High ANSIs really benefit lighting objects, and one of my favorites is fire. You simply cannot render a realistic rendition of fire with CRTs/FALDs at all! On plasmas, fires look like what they should look like : etheral, and transparent. On CRTs and LCDs, they simply look like a two-dimensional red blob with no sense of transparency at all. They absolutely lack any depth to render a complex layer of multiple lighting sources like a fire. The Samsung F5300B does pretty well with fire in this case, but still, it's the Panasonic S60 that shows more depth and complexity while rendering it.
Searchlight is another favorite of mine. And I'm really familiar with this picture taken in Toronto because I've seen tons of searchlight in Toronto in real life many times too. And again, LCDs' take on this picture is too cartoony and not really transparent. CRTs too have trouble because they can't highlight luminance between searchlight and other zones, lowering overall effective contrast ratio. Plasmas comes through with extreme transparency and impacting brightness, it's so unreal.
Another rain image because I just love seeing rains on my Panasonic S64! See those colored lighting reflected in rain water? See that road gravel covered with rain? On plasmas, the lighting stays etheral while gravels hold hard edge. This is the reason I don't really care about 4K LCDs at all. They may show higher fidelity, but they simply don't have contrast ratio to fully resolve those textures. On my Panasonic S64, the gravels have weight and depth, and best of all have so much texture. It really feels like those gravels are crunch and crispy. How can either a FALD or CRT can resolve both opacity of lighting and crunch textures of gravel simultaneously? They can't! Higher ANSI allows for different depth, opacity, textures on each and every objects.
Many examples I've cited yet none were from a truly photopic scene. That's why HDR holds so much potential. With HDR, we can finally get into scotopic vision. (with an OLED of course. Even the Kuros only manage to scratch into that area) That means we can finally distinguish snow between in starlight and in overcast night! All the possibilities and all uncharted territories and I haven't mentioned a single eye-searing photopic example at all. I'm already bored of Samsung JS9500 and Vizio Reference and their two bit "brightness is everything" philosophy behind it. OLED is the sole display for truly resolving HDR and it doesn't have to be get as bright as HDR LCDs to do that.