Samsung Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 16 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 479 Old 01-05-2015, 12:29 PM
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Well I may have solved the uniformity issues on my 51F8500...


...I bought a used PDP-5020FD.


Measuring it now and it's not very accurate but the uniformity is freaking perfect. And of course my iD3 can't measure the black level. No IR...No dead pixels. No buzz. Had stand, speakers and remote. $750.
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post #452 of 479 Old 01-05-2015, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
Well I may have solved the uniformity issues on my 51F8500...


...I bought a used PDP-5020FD.


Measuring it now and it's not very accurate but the uniformity is freaking perfect. And of course my iD3 can't measure the black level. No IR...No dead pixels. No buzz. Had stand, speakers and remote. $750.
sounds like a winner to me!

when you say 'not very accurate' you mean you haven't calibrated it yet right?

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post #453 of 479 Old 01-05-2015, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
sounds like a winner to me!

when you say 'not very accurate' you mean you haven't calibrated it yet right?
Well you can't really calibrated this set with user controls. Pioneer gimped it to sell Elites. CNet even called them out on it back in the day. Sounds like you can hack it to balance grayscale but no CMS.


And I may have spoken too soon. There IS a hint of redness to the blacks in letter box movies. Mostly in the upper right and lower center. But strangely enough I'm not that bothered by it. I'm going to do some homework and see if I can learn how to tweak it out. I've always wanted a Kuro to play with an now I have one. And for not much more than a 51F5300 would have cost. And I know the uniformity on that set was likely to be off. The Kuro looks as good as my F8500...if not better in some ways.


But anyways I digress. Sorry about derailing the thread....
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post #454 of 479 Old 01-05-2015, 04:25 PM
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Well you can't really calibrated this set with user controls. Pioneer gimped it to sell Elites. CNet even called them out on it back in the day. Sounds like you can hack it to balance grayscale but no CMS.


And I may have spoken too soon. There IS a hint of redness to the blacks in letter box movies. Mostly in the upper right and lower center. But strangely enough I'm not that bothered by it. I'm going to do some homework and see if I can learn how to tweak it out. I've always wanted a Kuro to play with an now I have one. And for not much more than a 51F5300 would have cost. And I know the uniformity on that set was likely to be off. The Kuro looks as good as my F8500...if not better in some ways.


But anyways I digress. Sorry about derailing the thread....
i've heard there's a way to 'fix' the red tint. hopefully that's true.

i agree, i've wanted to SEE a kuro, i've never even seen one before. i had no idea i loved deep blacks so much because it wasn't until after the kuro's were killed off that i got rid of my crt. it was like this slap in the face when i realized 'off black' was no longer a thing... recent plasma has certainly gotten into the 'close enough' range, but i've wondered if a tweaked kuro would have been actually close enough that i don't feel it's a compromise to live with

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post #455 of 479 Old 01-10-2015, 04:26 PM
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After reading through this thread, I'm hoping you all might be able to help me. I recently purchased the PN64F8500 and it was awesome! Bright picture, beautiful colors, and deep blacks. However, the screen had some defects from the packaging materials. I couldn't exchange it because the retailer had no stock left. Samsung agreed to replace the panel under warranty.

Here's my problem: the original panel reached near 50 fL in Movie mode at 20 Cell Light and 95 Contrast, and over 60 fL in Standard with 20 Cell 95 Contast on peak white 18% pattern. However, the replacement panel barely dings 38 fL in Movie at 20 Cell and 95 Contrast, and 46fL in Standard at 20 Cell and 95 Contrast.

When the tech installed the new panel, he tested two voltages and said they were within spec. I can't figure out why the new panel is so much dimmer with the same settings as before. I already checked all the bug and quick fixes like Eco mode, Motion Lighting, and Black Optimizer, but they all look good. I've tried a Menu Reset, Factory Reset, and a SVC Reset, but nothing has solved my problem.

I read in this thread that some folks saw a decrease in max output after adjusting voltages. I'm thinking that maybe there is a voltage setting that is capping my plasma's peak output. Do you all have any thoughts or suggestions here?

Other than maximum light output capabilities, the sets colors and gamma errors are excellent, below 1 DeltaE after calibration. I realize the current output is well within what we shoot for in dark room and normal viewing calibrations, but I like to crank up the light output when the sun is blazing and I'm watching from the kitchen or dining room. Is my panel defective, or does it fall within the norm for this plasma?
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post #456 of 479 Old 01-10-2015, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBlues View Post
After reading through this thread, I'm hoping you all might be able to help me. I recently purchased the PN64F8500 and it was awesome! Bright picture, beautiful colors, and deep blacks. However, the screen had some defects from the packaging materials. I couldn't exchange it because the retailer had no stock left. Samsung agreed to replace the panel under warranty.

Here's my problem: the original panel reached near 50 fL in Movie mode at 20 Cell Light and 95 Contrast, and over 60 fL in Standard with 20 Cell 95 Contast on peak white 18% pattern. However, the replacement panel barely dings 38 fL in Movie at 20 Cell and 95 Contrast, and 46fL in Standard at 20 Cell and 95 Contrast.

When the tech installed the new panel, he tested two voltages and said they were within spec. I can't figure out why the new panel is so much dimmer with the same settings as before. I already checked all the bug and quick fixes like Eco mode, Motion Lighting, and Black Optimizer, but they all look good. I've tried a Menu Reset, Factory Reset, and a SVC Reset, but nothing has solved my problem.

I read in this thread that some folks saw a decrease in max output after adjusting voltages. I'm thinking that maybe there is a voltage setting that is capping my plasma's peak output. Do you all have any thoughts or suggestions here?

Other than maximum light output capabilities, the sets colors and gamma errors are excellent, below 1 DeltaE after calibration. I realize the current output is well within what we shoot for in dark room and normal viewing calibrations, but I like to crank up the light output when the sun is blazing and I'm watching from the kitchen or dining room. Is my panel defective, or does it fall within the norm for this plasma?
was there any change in MLL or ansi contrast?


I definitely saw a decrease in peak luminance( I was actually THRILLED by this), but also got a significant change in MLL and huge increase in ansi contrast.

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post #457 of 479 Old 03-07-2015, 02:30 PM
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just came across this thread
some initial questions:

will this help with DSE? Pink Tinting? Buzzing?
do I do this before or after calibrating?
Those with F8500, did you follow the instructions in the initial post or is there another post that's more geared towards our specific model?
Anyone had their's adjusted for years now and haven't run into any issues long term? Not sure if I wanna risk with overvolting but may wanna give undervolting a try. I have some experience overclocking/overvolting computer parts but nothing on a hardware level and they're not $4000 TV set that I plan on keeping for at least a decade.

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post #458 of 479 Old 03-08-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by twitchyzero View Post
just came across this thread
some initial questions:

will this help with DSE? Pink Tinting? Buzzing?
do I do this before or after calibrating?
Those with F8500, did you follow the instructions in the initial post or is there another post that's more geared towards our specific model?
Anyone had their's adjusted for years now and haven't run into any issues long term? Not sure if I wanna risk with overvolting but may wanna give undervolting a try. I have some experience overclocking/overvolting computer parts but nothing on a hardware level and they're not $4000 TV set that I plan on keeping for at least a decade.
should not make any difference with DSE. MAY(but likely not) help with pink tinting. may help with buzzing since generally speaking the more electricity flowing, the louder the buzz. that is assuming your tv is functioning 'properly' and doesn't have some other cause of the buzzing.


calibrate afterwards. it's not going to be a huge change, but why wouldn't you calibrate after?


I did not follow the initial instructions, but the ones posted a couple pages back.


I've had mine done for a few months, nothing has changed since the day I made the adjustments. I've always had a bit of the magenta 'speckles' under specific situations, but they don't show up with 99% of content, and i'll take the improved blacks AND reduced brightness(this tv is so hard to reduce brightness without messing up something else) any day.


I'm not sure if anybody turns up the voltage? that would increase the MLL, and be a terrible idea. I have my voltages all the way down, as far as they'll go. I was a little worried it might be too extreme at first, but it seems to be just fine.


that being said, if you just bought yours, the new ones don't seem to need, or react as well to voltage tweaks as the earlier ones. mine is from april 2013, and had much higher MLL than the 2014 models tend to have. after my tweaks, the MLL is no better than the 2014 ones either. mine now seems about on par though.

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post #459 of 479 Old 03-10-2015, 08:52 PM
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I'll add that I tried this on the extra 64F8500 I got from Amazon in hopes it would help alleviate the pink tinted areas and it did not at all, neither minimized or maxed out voltage wise. Did both pots too. There was a third Vscn pot but I didn't mess with that one. The only thing it changed (Vs) was the peak brightness. Black levels were unaffected and I tested this side by side with my other F8500 in a dark room on a "no input" screen. I think Vs could only go as low as 203 mV though and it was an Oct. 2014 build. The non tweaked set was a June 2014 build.
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post #460 of 479 Old 03-10-2015, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by qsilvertwo View Post
I'll add that I tried this on the extra 64F8500 I got from Amazon in hopes it would help alleviate the pink tinted areas and it did not at all, neither minimized or maxed out voltage wise. Did both pots too. There was a third Vscn pot but I didn't mess with that one. The only thing it changed (Vs) was the peak brightness. Black levels were unaffected and I tested this side by side with my other F8500 in a dark room on a "no input" screen. I think Vs could only go as low as 203 mV though and it was an Oct. 2014 build. The non tweaked set was a June 2014 build.
Where do you see the pink areas on your set?

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post #461 of 479 Old 05-03-2015, 11:05 AM
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Got a boring Sunday here so I decided to take all my courage with both hands and decided to open my fully warranty-covered ps51f8500 to try the V tweak.

Once opened rear panel VERY carefully to not to damage ANY of the screws in case a future Samsung technician will come, I suddenly realized there was no Yrr trimmer (did not read all old posts) and this throw me in a sad mood because I this that was the best control for my problem ("delayed black")

The Vs control all turned CCW brought me only to 202V (from 209) i left it at 202.
The Vscan was the most customizable, i tried to go to -173 but there were misfires, so I stopped at -178 (from -190 )
the Va no effect, was @63 then I observed that with Vs @ 202 the Va went down to 61 and there was no way to increase it also with a huge trimmer action...

conclusions: Dunno honestly if my panel improved. The peak power consumption with cell 20 and Dynamic, decreased from ~500W to ~450W so I think peak luminance also decreased. I don't have a meter so I had to measure by eye. With Vscan @ -173, the panel turned off with a black picture... and also I had to increase brightness from 47 to 54 to see the 17 grey clipping.
Unfortunately the "delayed black" is still there. Probably just a little reduced. This is very disappointing. I can still see black sky starting grey then turning black in a particular "walking dead" season 2 scene (s02e11 at 36:22 if some1 interested )

in the next days I'll try to see if my MLL improved
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post #462 of 479 Old 05-05-2015, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
i've heard there's a way to 'fix' the red tint. hopefully that's true.

i agree, i've wanted to SEE a kuro, i've never even seen one before. i had no idea i loved deep blacks so much because it wasn't until after the kuro's were killed off that i got rid of my crt. it was like this slap in the face when i realized 'off black' was no longer a thing... recent plasma has certainly gotten into the 'close enough' range, but i've wondered if a tweaked kuro would have been actually close enough that i don't feel it's a compromise to live with
Blacks are really contagious, isn't it? After I have purchased the F5300B, I was all ready to say goodbye to my dim-ass Panasonic S60 and sell it, but after going through a few ABL friendly games, I was shocked how much of a difference there still is ANSI-wise. Most of all, while I've long already passed buyer's gratification period with the F5300, the S60 still makes me go OMG even now. I got used to the F5300B's superior brightness quick, but I'm still awed with the S60's black.

Don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean I do not value brightness anymore. I still do, but I realized brightness without black level is meaningless, so I'm trying to maximize contrast ratio by trying to pick a plasma with a great black level that can also get as closest to the F8500 as possible, and that plasma is a Kuro with an ABL mod. I had a chance to get the 5010 for $599 in Toronto, but I want at least a 9G, so I could at least get a nice black level upgrade from my S60 as well.
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post #463 of 479 Old 05-05-2015, 07:56 AM
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Blacks are really contagious, isn't it? After I have purchased the F5300B, I was all ready to say goodbye to my dim-ass Panasonic S60 and sell it, but after going through a few ABL friendly games, I was shocked how much of a difference there still is ANSI-wise. Most of all, while I've long already passed buyer's gratification period with the F5300, the S60 still makes me go OMG even now. I got used to the F5300B's superior brightness quick, but I'm still awed with the S60's black.

The S60's mll. is about 0.003 fL., where as the F5300B is about 0.002 fL. At least according to measurements posted here. Which F5300B do you have? The 60" or the 51"?
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post #464 of 479 Old 05-05-2015, 10:57 AM
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The S60's mll. is about 0.003 fL., where as the F5300B is about 0.002 fL. At least according to measurements posted here. Which F5300B do you have? The 60" or the 51"?
60 inches, same size as Orion2001's. Keep in mind mine is actually the S64, so the filter must improve black level compared to the stock S60. (which still measured 0.0024 fL at one point by someone) I personally found my F5300B rarely keeps its 0.002 fL (fully modded for voltage tweak) Only time it comes anywhere close to it was when I was playing Dynasty Warriors battle of Chibi (lots of night time scenes with many areas in black) in 4:3, APL scenes like that is really rare for my regular gaming contents.

Maybe my tweaked F5300B is still behind Orion's. I've also heard from few purchasers of F5300B that theirs measures somewhere more like 0.003~0.004 fL. Even looking at Orion's ABL chart, 0.005 fL is where the F5300B spends most of its time with whereas Panny's don't float at all. Even when playing movies, luminance of black bars change depending on APL (voltage tweak has lessened this, but it's still there) something I've never discovered on my Panasonic.
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post #465 of 479 Old 05-05-2015, 11:34 AM
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60 inches, same size as Orion2001's. Keep in mind mine is actually the S64, so the filter must improve black level compared to the stock S60. (which still measured 0.0024 fL at one point by someone) I personally found my F5300B rarely keeps its 0.002 fL (fully modded for voltage tweak) Only time it comes anywhere close to it was when I was playing Dynasty Warriors battle of Chibi (lots of night time scenes with many areas in black) in 4:3, APL scenes like that is really rare for my regular gaming contents.

That's kind of a bummer. I currently have and am using the S60, but late last year I bought a F5300B to have as a backup. It's still sealed in the box. One of the reasons I bought it, aside from to have as a back up if the S60 were to fail, is that it reportedly had slightly better blacks while also being a bit brighter (I agree the S60 is bit dim).

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Maybe my tweaked F5300B is still behind Orion's. I've also heard from few purchasers of F5300B that theirs measures somewhere more like 0.003~0.004 fL. Even looking at Orion's ABL chart, 0.005 fL is where the F5300B spends most of its time with whereas Panny's don't float at all. Even when playing movies, luminance of black bars change depending on APL (voltage tweak has lessened this, but it's still there) something I've never discovered on my Panasonic.

Yes, I've also found the Panasonic blacks are perfectly stable. I've never seen the slightest float or fluctuation, which is actually pretty amazing and quite an engineering feat. I've also heard that the floating black on the F5300 is barely noticeable, but that's obviously not been your experience. Again, kind of a bummer.

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post #466 of 479 Old 05-05-2015, 12:04 PM
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It's a shame F5300 plasma never sold in italy....
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post #467 of 479 Old 05-05-2015, 06:03 PM
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Blacks are really contagious, isn't it? After I have purchased the F5300B, I was all ready to say goodbye to my dim-ass Panasonic S60 and sell it, but after going through a few ABL friendly games, I was shocked how much of a difference there still is ANSI-wise. Most of all, while I've long already passed buyer's gratification period with the F5300, the S60 still makes me go OMG even now. I got used to the F5300B's superior brightness quick, but I'm still awed with the S60's black.

Don't get me wrong. That doesn't mean I do not value brightness anymore. I still do, but I realized brightness without black level is meaningless, so I'm trying to maximize contrast ratio by trying to pick a plasma with a great black level that can also get as closest to the F8500 as possible, and that plasma is a Kuro with an ABL mod. I had a chance to get the 5010 for $599 in Toronto, but I want at least a 9G, so I could at least get a nice black level upgrade from my S60 as well.
in all honesty, ansi contrast means nothing to me, absolutely nothing. i've read forever how important it was, and took that on faith. but my projector has less than 200:1 ansi contrast, and it's ansi black levels are horrendous, but imo, it's 100x 'better' then almost every flat panel i've ever seen. when the scene is dark, that's when i need deep blacks, and while flat panels seem to do quite well at holding black, they don't get black when it counts, for me. it would appear that MLL, and on/off contrast are what I notice the most. in fact, the f8500's ansi contrast(when i crank the brightness and get over 10k:1) is more than my eyes can see. i actually start to lose shadow detail, even though the tv is displaying it, i can't see it. so it actually seems as though there's a limit to how much ansi contrast i would even want. yet another reason i have no interest, and maybe even a bit of fear, for HDR stuff. i'm already starting to experience the 'oncoming high beams at night' syndrome.

i'm hopeful oled will work out for me, but i do still truly miss crt. there were many times when i walked into the room, and heard a slight buzz and thought, 'oh man, i left the tv on, or did i?' and had to look close at the power button to see if it was in fact on or not. that just doesn't happen with a flat panel, haha, it's so obvious when it's on.

it's just a different world out there now. one can only hope that oled brings us back to a time when looking at MLL's is a waste of time(because they are all fantastic).

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post #468 of 479 Old 05-06-2015, 01:21 AM
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in all honesty, ansi contrast means nothing to me, absolutely nothing. i've read forever how important it was, and took that on faith. but my projector has less than 200:1 ansi contrast, and it's ansi black levels are horrendous, but imo, it's 100x 'better' then almost every flat panel i've ever seen. when the scene is dark, that's when i need deep blacks, and while flat panels seem to do quite well at holding black, they don't get black when it counts, for me. it would appear that MLL, and on/off contrast are what I notice the most. in fact, the f8500's ansi contrast(when i crank the brightness and get over 10k:1) is more than my eyes can see. i actually start to lose shadow detail, even though the tv is displaying it, i can't see it. so it actually seems as though there's a limit to how much ansi contrast i would even want. yet another reason i have no interest, and maybe even a bit of fear, for HDR stuff. i'm already starting to experience the 'oncoming high beams at night' syndrome.

i'm hopeful oled will work out for me, but i do still truly miss crt. there were many times when i walked into the room, and heard a slight buzz and thought, 'oh man, i left the tv on, or did i?' and had to look close at the power button to see if it was in fact on or not. that just doesn't happen with a flat panel, haha, it's so obvious when it's on.

it's just a different world out there now. one can only hope that oled brings us back to a time when looking at MLL's is a waste of time(because they are all fantastic).
That's where we begin to agree to disagree. I'm actually trying to escape from CRTs not because of their mass,size, screen size limitation, because of poor ANSI performance. While my Sony Trinitron BVM did extremely well considering its limitation, there are so much inconveniences because it lacks so much ANSI. And after owning the Panasonic S64, I have finally seen what ANSI really means to the overall pictures. In that sense, I'm truly glad I get to own the Panasonic's final year plasma. I do not like CRT/FALD because of their 'all or nothing' presentation. Real world scenes do not revolve around such binary definition, hence why ANSI is very important. I'll give illustrations.



Let's first start off with a picture CRTs/FALDs do extremely well. When there is no importance to detail of black level, sure, they vastly outperform plasmas.





Now, this is where things get interesting. When seeing this kind of scene in real life, it evokes a feeling in one's mind. It's sunset, so I feel calm, melancholic, quiet, perhaps feeling a little forshadowing of what happens in afterlife as a sunset is followed by a night, etc. The average luminance for this scene should also be low because it's bordering photopic with mesopic vision (5fL) but the sun should still be brighter than other areas. Use this chart as a guide.





Now, if I see this scene on LCDs, it's Charlie's Chocolate Factory time! It will be bright seering red that has absolutely no bearing to its actual time. Absolutely fake! I know because I also owned Sony Bravia at one time. How about FALDs? No difference because it has no zone to turn off on this picture, so it will never have on/off contrast to help with! Maybe it could make the sun brighter than the rest, and cloud dimmer than the rest, but that's it. CRTs? If I manually adjust luminance lower, maybe it could work it out somehow as CRTs are able to reach lower in on/off than non-FALD LCDs, but it will still just look dim, not really natural at all as well. And unlike FALDs, CRTs cannot differenciate light output between the sun and the rest of the scene because of poor ANSI, it will be either all dim or all bright so the final picture will be two dimensional at best. Unlike FALDs/CRTs, plasmas can vary light output of each pixels, so the sun will stay relatively bright, cloud will stay dim, the rest of red scenes bordering on photopic/mesopic vision. So I'm essensially getting a free HDR with high ANSI alone. And if I see this scene on my Panasonic S60, I really get emotional, which is really surprising because I've never had such feelings when I was using CRTs, LCDs, and LG plasma. Samsung F5300B do manage to handle it up to certain degree, but still doesn't quite evoke same feelings when viewing on my Panasonic.




Rain is really hard to get right on many displays because again, it's bordering on mesophic vision. When I think of rain, I feel gloomy, feeling shivers down my spine, wanting to take a sip at Tim Hortons etc, and only my Panasonic plasma has successfully evoked such feelings when watching rainy scenes. Samsung F5300's not really good at gloomy, dim presentation, so it doesn't really evoke me the same feelings. Again, FALDs have trouble rendering this scene effectively as it can only dim it, but still can't get as low as CRT's on/off as long as zones are on. CRTs can only dim down to realistic level, but can't really provide any depth. BTW, on CRTs, presentation is really equivalent whether it's cloudy or raining or let up and sun is shining back slightly. They simply fail to provide any variation with regards to catering different vision. Plasmas can. On my Panasonic, I clearly know the difference between cloudy to rain because ANSI contrast ratio between those two is perfectly served.



High ANSIs really benefit lighting objects, and one of my favorites is fire. You simply cannot render a realistic rendition of fire with CRTs/FALDs at all! On plasmas, fires look like what they should look like : etheral, and transparent. On CRTs and LCDs, they simply look like a two-dimensional red blob with no sense of transparency at all. They absolutely lack any depth to render a complex layer of multiple lighting sources like a fire. The Samsung F5300B does pretty well with fire in this case, but still, it's the Panasonic S60 that shows more depth and complexity while rendering it.



Searchlight is another favorite of mine. And I'm really familiar with this picture taken in Toronto because I've seen tons of searchlight in Toronto in real life many times too. And again, LCDs' take on this picture is too cartoony and not really transparent. CRTs too have trouble because they can't highlight luminance between searchlight and other zones, lowering overall effective contrast ratio. Plasmas comes through with extreme transparency and impacting brightness, it's so unreal.




Another rain image because I just love seeing rains on my Panasonic S64! See those colored lighting reflected in rain water? See that road gravel covered with rain? On plasmas, the lighting stays etheral while gravels hold hard edge. This is the reason I don't really care about 4K LCDs at all. They may show higher fidelity, but they simply don't have contrast ratio to fully resolve those textures. On my Panasonic S64, the gravels have weight and depth, and best of all have so much texture. It really feels like those gravels are crunch and crispy. How can either a FALD or CRT can resolve both opacity of lighting and crunch textures of gravel simultaneously? They can't! Higher ANSI allows for different depth, opacity, textures on each and every objects.

Many examples I've cited yet none were from a truly photopic scene. That's why HDR holds so much potential. With HDR, we can finally get into scotopic vision. (with an OLED of course. Even the Kuros only manage to scratch into that area) That means we can finally distinguish snow between in starlight and in overcast night! All the possibilities and all uncharted territories and I haven't mentioned a single eye-searing photopic example at all. I'm already bored of Samsung JS9500 and Vizio Reference and their two bit "brightness is everything" philosophy behind it. OLED is the sole display for truly resolving HDR and it doesn't have to be get as bright as HDR LCDs to do that.
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post #469 of 479 Old 05-06-2015, 10:46 AM
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stuff.
yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against the importance of ansi contrast, or the fact crt's struggled in this area.


just making an observation that my eyes don't agree with convention, and I'm far more sensitive to 'not black' MLL's in dark scenes than I am in bright scenes. enough that the on/off contrast is a bigger struggle than ansi contrast. I do feel my eyes are 'different' in how they handle brightness. I find it literally not possible to see outside on a bright sunny day without sunglasses. I have 4 pairs of sunglasses in my car, because I can't drive without them under certain conditions. I find I have pretty good night vision, but it's destroyed very easily by oncoming headlights.


I can appreciate the difference in ansi contrast between my projector (under 200:1) and my tv (over 7000:1), but I would consider it a 'subtle' difference that I usually need to pay attention to, to be aware of. on the other hand, my projector's ~30,000:1 on/off CR is pretty noticeably better than my TV's ~15000:1. something that I can't escape every time I see a fade to black, or generally dark scene on the TV. the catch is, it doesn't take much light to wreck the projector. so there are certainly some 'shadowy' scenes that look washed out on the projector. but I think if the projector could hold a 1000:1 or 2000:1 ansi CR, the on/off contrast advantage would be more significant to me. the only reason the projector doesn't 'dominate' is because it's ansi contrast is absolutely terrible, haha.

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Did anyone experience some kind of "ghosting" (i dunno how to call it: for example a mid-tone grey face on a dark backgroud creating a gost image for a fraction of a second on its original place, when moves from there) lowering the Vs and Vscan ?

I am not sure it's the tweak because it's very rare and I've seen it only on a particular content, before re-opening the tv and restoring original V I ask and advice from you

thanks

p.s.: now I have Vs@202 (minimum possible) and Vsc @ -178
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post #471 of 479 Old 05-08-2015, 03:11 PM
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Did anyone experience some kind of "ghosting" (i dunno how to call it: for example a mid-tone grey face on a dark backgroud creating a gost image for a fraction of a second on its original place, when moves from there) lowering the Vs and Vscan ?

I am not sure it's the tweak because it's very rare and I've seen it only on a particular content, before re-opening the tv and restoring original V I ask and advice from you

thanks

p.s.: now I have Vs@202 (minimum possible) and Vsc @ -178
that sounds an awful lot like how I would describe IR... if it's something different, my bad, carry on, but that's basically the description of image retention.

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Yes but I did not think IR could happen with dynamic images, so do you think is not related with V lowering?
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post #473 of 479 Old 05-08-2015, 11:35 PM
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I'm nearly sure I've read that tweaking voltages(I don't know which one) can effect image retention.

A side note -I thought I noticed with image retention is that it left image retention after viewing lighter colored screens (like hockey as an example.especially after pausing it on a hockey screen). Im not saying this is for sure or not though as I only checked this a few times.

I'm also nearly sure my black level went darker when I reduced the darks(can't remember what it's called)in the adc results in service menu.I reduced the rgb darks 1 number.....Just be careful you don't brick(aka destroy) your tv which can easily happen.And DONT press hdmi calibration either.

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My panel is affected by IR, a few seconds on the smart hub and on the next screen I'll see the pattern of hub for other seconds... Did never think this could happen during normal viewing, giving the sensation of a somewhat "slow" panel. I'm afraid the only thing I can do is open the TV again, restore V and see if it's better...
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post #475 of 479 Old 05-09-2015, 04:45 AM
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My panel is affected by IR, a few seconds on the smart hub and on the next screen I'll see the pattern of hub for other seconds... Did never think this could happen during normal viewing, giving the sensation of a somewhat "slow" panel. I'm afraid the only thing I can do is open the TV again, restore V and see if it's better...
That is strange.

Could it be that you stayed on the smart hub page longer than you realized? How long does it take for it to go away? Might be easier to detect using the scrolling bar.

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post #476 of 479 Old 05-09-2015, 06:08 AM
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The time I stay on smart hub is just the time I start the htpc, sit on sofa and wait htpc boot (surely less than a minute). The IR clears in a few seconds
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post #477 of 479 Old 05-09-2015, 08:28 AM
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I was thinking...
IR usually is a darker zone where there was a bright thing before (think of a white TV logo, when disappeares and there is a plain field, the former logo is darker ) I've never seen something brighter over the background, so this must be something different in my opinion.

the V tweak at some point causes pixel misfires, so I think it causes pixels to be "less ready" this was the reason I thought the ghosting is caused by the tweak.
Anyway tomorrow I'll open TV again...
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post #478 of 479 Old 05-09-2015, 09:51 AM
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Did anyone experience some kind of "ghosting" (i dunno how to call it: for example a mid-tone grey face on a dark backgroud creating a gost image for a fraction of a second on its original place, when moves from there) lowering the Vs and Vscan ?
Yes. On my LG PK350 when I set Set_Up too low, then the darker shades of grey are laggy, meaning the pwm noise particles of Coopers face in "The Blacklist" stay on the bright green wall for up to two seconds after a scene cut.

It's not IR, it's just too slow pixels.

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yesterday while doing a first try of calibration, on the darkest grey patterns I had a misfire area in the right border of the screen, so I definitely undervolted too much. Now i wonder if I'll have to raise the Vs or restore Vsc towards -190V from -178
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