Samsung Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 429 Old 02-04-2012, 09:40 AM
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Thanks for the reply...

Id it easy to put back these setting if I feel as if they made things worst for whatever reason?

Also, do you recommend for me (someone not using calibrating tools), to just mess with step 3 Yrr, or should I just go ahead and follow your all the steps.

Thanks for your help, I am very curious to see what your calibrating setting are with all of these tweaks. I might wait until after Sunday to apply my Fbr fix and this tweak ( I would hate to mess up my tv somehow and be out to see the Pats win )

TV: Samsung PN51D8000

Sound: Denon 1910, Polk Monitor 70 Fronts, CS20 Center, Monitor 40 Rears, PSW505 sub

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post #62 of 429 Old 02-04-2012, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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oh yeah, don't mess with anything before tomorrow, the game will look great as is. Yes, I would recommend just the Yrr tweak and it is easy to get back to original settings if you take the time to photograph them.
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post #63 of 429 Old 02-04-2012, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Another couple of pics to see difference in black level. These were taken in complete darkness with a 0% pattern.

0.016 ftL




0.0056 ftL

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post #64 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:09 AM
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Looks awesome Zoyd....Im really curious to see what can be done to the bigger models
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post #65 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 11:05 AM
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Does anybody know if this pre-discharge tweak is possible with 2011 Panasonics?

I couldn't find a Service Manual for my G30 but I found one for the G20 and I didn't find potmeters. (There are very detailed schematics for every boards and may be they are there but I didn't see them.)

It would not be a surprise if this is completely software controlled since they play a lot more with the pre-discharge (the old „rising black”, patents about temperature corrections, etc...).

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
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post #66 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I looked at pictures of the ST, GT, and VT 2011 boards and the timing stuff, equivalent of Yrr does not have a trim pot. There are trim pots on the power board for the sustain voltage but that doesn't get you much.
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post #67 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 01:22 PM
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Hi Zoyd

Many thanks for this info

I've adjusted all three pots on my uk ps51d550 and wow now i have black levels I could only dream of previously.

Such a big difference - I don't have any measuring device except my eyes and the back levels now equal my ps59d6900.

Unfortunately the uk ps59d6900 doesn't have the yrr pot but I've tried the voltage tweaks and have slightly better blacks.

Thanks again

David
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post #68 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 02:30 PM
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Zoyd, how did you get them that dark? I have some of the calibration settings applied to my pn64d8000 and I have very noticeable luminance in complete darkness. I would suspect my larger model in stock form should be close to either one of those pictures, but I don't think it is.
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post #69 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Those pictures can only be compared to each other. Your eyes are much more sensitive than the camera I used so your display will appear brighter than what you see on the screen above. If I were to take a picture with the same camera of a typical 64"er it would appear 1/2 as bright as the first picture and just a tad brighter than the second.
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post #70 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 02:57 PM
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I hope my friend will ask me to do this after I apply the logic board update. It would be nice to see and measure VT30-ish blacks on a cheap 51D550.
(I guess my new i1d3 is accurate enough to provide me usable reading in this range.)


Speaking about the VT30... Do you think the sustain voltage tweak can give me VT30 black on a G30?
They are not too far (~0.012 vs ~0.02) but that's still noticable.
May be only these pots (their factory states) make the difference...?

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post #71 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

I hope my friend will ask me to do this after I apply the logic board update. It would be nice to see and measure VT30-ish blacks on a cheap 51D550.
(I guess my new i1d3 is accurate enough to provide me usable reading in this range.)


Speaking about the VT30... Do you think the sustain voltage tweak can give me VT30 black on a G30?
They are not too far (~0.012 vs ~0.02) but that's still noticable.
May be only these pots (their factory states) make the difference...?

I got a 0.01 cd/m^2 reduction using voltage levels only so you might do it, it'll depend on two things:

1. Gas breakdown is stable at reduce voltages.
2. Logic board doesn't sense voltage change and compensate.

I'm not sure how sensitive the d3 is, the d2 has a noise floor of 0.02 cd/m^2. You might be able to get an idea of the amount of darkening by taking long exposure photographs in total darkness.
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post #72 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:20 PM
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ok...so how do you tweak this? I dont see instructions on HOW to tweak these things. Whats the screwdriver for? etc?
I also have the 59d550. will these tweaks do alot for me or just a little?
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post #73 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:28 PM
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Check the first post again, there are some instructions there.

Basically you have some pots (there are photos in the first post) and you rotate them to the direction which causes deeper black but you rotate them only that much that the pixels don't start to misfire (you find this point by hitting that point and go back a bit).

I guess you shoul not do this alone if you need more detailed step-by-step instructions than that. It's relatively dangerous! (High voltage, hardware modification, etc...)

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post #74 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:32 PM
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So since I dont have a yrr. these tweaks wont do much for me? I have 59D550

Can you see the voltage via service menu or do i need a meter? to do the VS and VSC tweaks
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post #75 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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post #76 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:50 PM
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Hi I adjusted the power pots on my ps51d550 and ps59d6900 without any meters. Is this foolish? could I cause damage the unit? Screens working great now but worried about future .
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post #77 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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The pots do not allow a large range of adjustment so not very likely to cause any problems except misfires, so keep on eye on that. Did you see Yrr on the Y-scan board of either of those panels? That's where you get the most "bang for your tweak"


edit: nevermind, I just read your previous post.
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post #78 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 03:57 PM
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dont think anyone find yrr on 59d550 :/
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post #79 of 429 Old 02-05-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janos666 View Post

Does anybody know if this pre-discharge tweak is possible with 2011 Panasonics?

I couldn't find a Service Manual for my G30 but I found one for the G20 and I didn't find potmeters. (There are very detailed schematics for every boards and may be they are there but I didn't see them.)

It would not be a surprise if this is completely software controlled since they play a lot more with the pre-discharge (the old ,,rising black", patents about temperature corrections, etc...).

Janos I've seen some of your prior posts indicating you've had experience with the debug on the sammy.

Any avenue for changing values in the EPROM mirroring the yrr adjustments?
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post #80 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzakus View Post

Janos I've seen some of your prior posts indicating you've had experience with the debug on the sammy.

Any avenue for changing values in the EPROM mirroring the yrr adjustments?

No. I don't remember anything like that. Hovewer I did see the pot locations and some instructions about their setup procedure in the service manual.

I guess they often skip that, just like I never saw a field technician who ever used a Konika-Minolta spectro to adjust the white balance. Did you? The service manual says they need to... (The manual is written by maximalists, but the technicians are minimalists. They never use the factory debug menu on the field.)

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
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post #81 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 10:45 AM
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Anyone know where I can download a service manual for any one of these plasma models?

PS59d6900 or PS64d8000 or PS59D7000

I'm interesting in trying to find the yrr adjustments in service menu for the larger models which seem to have automatic yrr feature.
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post #82 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 10:47 AM
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Zoyd

When my tweeked plasma starts from cold I do see some misfiring, but this soons goes away after a few seconds. I'm happy to live with it but can this cause damage to the panel over long term?
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post #83 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe ask in the LG thread since they've been doing it for a longer period. My hunch is that it will not have a long-term effect and only be an annoyance. My reasoning is 1. There are just a few that do it at start-up for a very short time. 2. They are random. 3. A misfire means the gas did not break-down into a conductor and form the plasma, I don't see how that would cause any damage.
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post #84 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muzzakus View Post

Janos I've seen some of your prior posts indicating you've had experience with the debug on the sammy.

Any avenue for changing values in the EPROM mirroring the yrr adjustments?

I don't think you'll find anything in the service menu. There is a debug console that can be run directly to the logic board (those TCON binaries have a debug console built-in). But you have to connect to the RS-232 lines to get to it. The top level menu from that console looks like this:

Code:
-------------------------------------------------
    SAMSUNG SDI U2 Module UART DEBUG HelpDesk
-------------------------------------------------
 -V : X,Y,DATA Block Voltage Monitoring 
 -D : Data_Downloading Service [code,pof]    
 -C : Data All Upload......*.pof    
 -I : Module Information
 -S : Self Diagonist Register Calibration
 -E : �ڰ���� �����Ҽ� ��� View
 -K : MDC Function Single Control
 -U : FRC Function Single Control
 -R : FRC board I2C setting 
 -F : 1500Cd/�� Histogram Realtime Reading
 -A : AAPC  Register Realtime Reading
 -T : Temperature sensor reg view......
 -M : Cinema mode control(1:Enable / 0:Disable)
 -Q : EEPROM data dump
 -ESC : Cancel
-------------------------------------------------

   Please AnyKey...............................
I haven't been able to do anything here except clear the eeprom which had no effect (I believe this is equivalent to a reflash). The -V voltage block monitoring does nothing on my display but might yield results on larger displays with that capability on the scan boards.
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post #85 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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Zoyd so the biggest change in MLL comes from tweaking the Yrr pot? do you even need to tweak the other pot(s) What's your take?
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post #86 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 03:59 PM
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I played with an EU 51D550 today.

The logic board update went without problems and normal materials looked positively better fluctuation-wise (both black and gamma felt stable).

The pot-tweak wasn't a nice experience.

Vs was already at it's minimum. It could not go counterclockwise and the reverse direction increased the black and the buzzing a lot.

Vscan could be rotated in both directions and reduced the black if turned clockwise but misfire appeared very shortly.

Yrr could move in both directions, reduced black clockwise but pixel misfire appeared very soon.

Ufortunately this new i1d3 let me down (I just unboxed and used it in the first time today and it reported crazy readings) and I didn't have time to measure the black in AgyllCMS Adaptive mode with the CM, so I don't have an accurate number but it didn't look any better.


I don't think I will open up another Samsung. Looks like it's a lot of screwing for nothing. But if I do, I will bring a multimeter with me. I didn't have one this time, so I just played with the pots blindly (according to the instructions in the first post).

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post #87 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 04:12 PM
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Any news on how this can be achieved on the PS64D8000
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post #88 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe that one was pretty close to optimal already, hard to tell without a stable meter.

@hungro: on my display I got 75% of the reduction from Yrr and 25% from the voltages so if you don't want to mess with the voltages it's still worthwhile.
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post #89 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 05:12 PM
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Could be a weak unit because the misfire always appeared on the same spot (low-left corner) first. I could tune the pots more before it appeared globally on the whole screen.

"DIY certified hobby-calibrator" (based on ChadB's "warning signs" list
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post #90 of 429 Old 02-06-2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I don't think you'll find anything in the service menu. There is a debug console that can be run directly to the logic board (those TCON binaries have a debug console built-in). But you have to connect to the RS-232 lines to get to it. The top level menu from that console looks like this:

Code:
-------------------------------------------------
    SAMSUNG SDI U2 Module UART DEBUG HelpDesk
-------------------------------------------------
 -V : X,Y,DATA Block Voltage Monitoring 
 -D : Data_Downloading Service [code,pof]    
 -C : Data All Upload......*.pof    
 -I : Module Information
 -S : Self Diagonist Register Calibration
 -E : �ڰ���� �����Ҽ� ��� View
 -K : MDC Function Single Control
 -U : FRC Function Single Control
 -R : FRC board I2C setting 
 -F : 1500Cd/�� Histogram Realtime Reading
 -A : AAPC  Register Realtime Reading
 -T : Temperature sensor reg view......
 -M : Cinema mode control(1:Enable / 0:Disable)
 -Q : EEPROM data dump
 -ESC : Cancel
-------------------------------------------------

   Please AnyKey...............................
I haven't been able to do anything here except clear the eeprom which had no effect (I believe this is equivalent to a reflash). The -V voltage block monitoring does nothing on my display but might yield results on larger displays with that capability on the scan boards.

You'd think all the paramteres would be stored there and a reset would default things which could be detrimental. Any links to a step by step for experimetning in the area Zoyd?
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