Samsung Plasma Panel tweaks for better blacks. - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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front side shouldn't move, if you remove all screws except those holding the stand the back pops off. Make sure you remove the cord retainer and slide the back off along the cord.
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post #152 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 01:20 PM
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Thanks zoyd managed to open it up and rotate the YRR by 1/4th anything more and the whites will have mega reddish misfires. While looking at the white scroll at dynamic mode I can still see (at 2 feet) at least 2 misfires at the top right side of the screen, should i rotate the pot a little bit more or is this ok?

I might do the VS and VSC when my warranty is expired, still need to learn how to use my multimeter haha. I just know basic stuffs.

PS - I have a 51D550
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post #153 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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yeah, top right strip is the worst area. I have two pixels up there stuck at magenta (green misfire) but I can't see them at normal viewing distance so I just left them.
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post #154 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 01:52 PM
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Thanks alot zoyd it really improved my sets black though, its not as glowy as it was.

I got another question, I also now notice when I show a full black screen there is a little bit of dithering that is more pronounced at the center of the screen when I go close and It wont go even though I set the brightness to 0 . Does your set have the same effect too? Or maybe I need to adjust the Voltage pots too just like what geraldoviera said at post #145?
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post #155 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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With a black screen I can see some green dither from 2-3 feet in the upper right quadrant only at brightness setting 54. If I turn down brightness to 45 the screen shuts off completely.
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post #156 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

With a black screen I can see some green dither from 2-3 feet in the upper right quadrant only at brightness setting 54. If I turn down brightness to 45 the screen shuts off completely.

I backed mine up a tad bit more. Mine don't do that when I change my brightness. It might have something to do with your voltage settings.
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post #157 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lbm30 View Post

I backed mine up a tad bit more. Mine don't do that when I change my brightness. It might have something to do with your voltage settings.

Hey lbm did you adjust your VSC and VA pots? Im deciding if I should open it again and adjust the VSC pot only.

I backed my YRR pot a little bit more too, until the green dither was gone at a full black feed. (Is this also what you did?)
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post #158 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by joedoed View Post


Hey lbm did you adjust your VSC and VA pots? Im deciding if I should open it again and adjust the VSC pot only.

I backed my YRR pot a little bit more too, until the green dither was gone at a full black feed. (Is this also what you did?)

Nope. All I did was tune my yrr. I don't have any tools for the vsc and va pots. Picture looks great with only the tuning of the yrr. I might have to tweak it just a little bit more to get rid of all of the dots. It's not bad. Just a few here and there, but I want mine as close to perfect.
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post #159 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 07:08 PM
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zoyd,
when I do the adjustment should I have the tv in movie mode or in dynamic mode? Also what should the settings be set too(contrast, brightness, gamma, ect....)
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post #160 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Whatever you normally use is fine, you might have to readjust brightness after.
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post #161 of 383 Old 03-13-2012, 08:55 PM
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ok thanks zoyd, wifey leaving to vegas tomorrow to go visit grandkid, i'm left to babysit kids and animals.So going to try to make it to radioshack or frys in next few days to get the plastic screwdrivers and ground wrist strap. I have the 51d6500 so will keep posted on results.
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post #162 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 06:22 AM
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I hate the screws they use on the rear cover, they are screwed in so tightly and will strip the head at the slightest slip. 2 of my screws would not come out and had to drill the heads off causing massive vibration through the panel which I'm guessing is not too good for it

Now on to pot tweaking to see if I can improve my low end red saturation issues which is being caused by the ABL...
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post #163 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 01:02 PM
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Finished playing around with the pots on my 51D450. I was able to lower black level from 0.009ftL to 0.006ftl/no reading (i1d2) by setting Yrr to maximum clockwise position. The difference however is almost imperceptible due to the lack of any screen filtering on this model, so I just set it back to its default position. Plus there were some purple misfires.

I also checked the test points were reading in line with the sticker spec, which they were. I then played around with increasing and decreasing all of the pots except for Ve which I couldn't find, none of which had any effect on my red saturation problem.

So I guess the next step is to try the firmware update and see if that improves it.
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post #164 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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0.009 to meter baseline should be noticeable in a dark room. Looks like your set is lower to begin with, mine started out at 0.015 ftL.

@kanpol: good luck, let us know how it goes.
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post #165 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 07:47 PM
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Zoyd I went to 3 radioshacks and no luck on those plastic screwdrivers(forgot there name). Is there anything else i could use like a credit card. I build computers for a hobby so I know how to tread carefully but with pc's they are normally turned off with the cmos battery discharged. The tv has to be on when doing this so I dont want to use anything metal even a persision screwdriver. Can I do it with the tv off then turn it on to check for misfires then turn it off and move it some more. I know this sounds tideous but rather be safe then sorry.
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post #166 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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You should be able to fashion something from around the house, you can take a small plastic grip flat head screwdriver and wrap same tape around it. Find something that fits well with the TV off, the Yrr pot is a little different size then the voltage pot so you might need two different sizes.
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post #167 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 08:25 PM
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how bout electrical tape around the screwdriver? I dont think I'll mess with the voltage pots, since I dont have a meter. Was just gonna do the yrr pot since that seems to give to best results. So I just turn the pot clockwise very slowly until I see misfires then move it back a little till there gone. Or should I just give it a quarter turn( using clock as example, 12 to 3).
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post #168 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 08:36 PM
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On occasion when I didn't have access to my trusty old set of plastic electronic tools, I've had luck by making the screwdriver types out of bamboo skewers. Use a very sharp knife and form a chisel end that snugly fits the control. They don't last long but it's easy to keep making new tips. For a handle, use some tape.

Larry
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post #169 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 08:39 PM
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thanks larry um unfortunately no bamboo. But that is a good idea.
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post #170 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

You should be able to fashion something from around the house, you can take a small plastic grip flat head screwdriver and wrap same tape around it. Find something that fits well with the TV off, the Yrr pot is a little different size then the voltage pot so you might need two different sizes.

I just wanted to say zoyd you are the man. You gave more life to an already good tv. I'm glad you had the courage to try what you did. I love my set even more now. I watched the immortals tonight and it look great. No shadowing in dark scenes. Just good details.
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post #171 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 09:16 PM
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I just wanted to say zoyd you are the man. You gave more life to an already good tv. I'm glad you had the courage to try what you did. I love my set even more now. I watched the immortals tonight and it look great. No shadowing in dark scenes. Just good details.

+1 to this! Thanks alot zoyd for this and the FBR fix!

Regarding the screwdrivers I used a metal one with rubber grips and 1 stretched out electrical tape at the end of the screwdriver. Tried cutting one of my plastic ID's but I got a little bit lazy after how many tries and said WTH my wifey might wake up anytime soon! Ill use the normal screwdrivers!

But to be safe and if you have time just cut out your ID or CC and use that.
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post #172 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 09:29 PM
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is it ok if I have the tv on carpet when i do this. It has its stand and I'm wereing shoes.
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post #173 of 383 Old 03-14-2012, 10:56 PM
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ok just got done putting tv back together. the little triangle arrow on the vrr was at bout 10 on a clock I turned it clockwise about to the 1 on a clock after that got bad pink misfires all over my left on the tv. Everything looked good on the scroll bar, so put tv back together and put it back up. Now for the problem when I put the tv in letterbox the side bars are darker but there are green dancing pixels in the side bars more like green sparkles. It not from the bightness or contrast too high, thats different its more like how the lg's from a few years back had the green sparkles. What do I need to do zoyd?

edit... If I put it on an input thats not pluged in, the all black screen has those green sparkles on the top half
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post #174 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by kanpol View Post

ok just got done putting tv back together. the little triangle arrow on the vrr was at bout 10 on a clock I turned it clockwise about to the 1 on a clock after that got bad pink misfires all over my left on the tv. Everything looked good on the scroll bar, so put tv back together and put it back up. Now for the problem when I put the tv in letterbox the side bars are darker but there are green dancing pixels in the side bars more like green sparkles. It not from the bightness or contrast too high, thats different its more like how the lg's from a few years back had the green sparkles. What do I need to do zoyd?

edit... If I put it on an input thats not pluged in, the all black screen has those green sparkles on the top half

Yup I also had that so what I did is rotate the YRR pot back a little until all those dithering from a full black screen is gone.

Me and lbm talked about this yesterday you can scroll up and check our messages.
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post #175 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 01:46 AM
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Funny, we are all go tweaking our sets at the same time

I did mine 2 days ago and postet this also in the AVForums and in the Hifi-Forum. But because everything started here, I post it here too.

This is what I did:

_____Sticker:___Pre-Tweak:___Post Tweak:
Va____58_________58___________58
Vsc__-187_______-188__________-182 (this is fully clockwise)
Vs____207________208__________201
Ve____80_________77___________80

As you can see "Ve" was a bit wrong. I measured it last and find out that with "Ve" at the correct value I can go further with "Yrr". Before adjusting "Ve" I could turn "Yrr" about 2mm clockwise before missfire, with corrected "Ve" I could turn it about 5mm (nearly 1/8 of a complete turn).
But I never get a missfire after readjusting "Ve". When I turned to far I get a great magenta noise distortion, whatever, in the middle of the screen. So as some of you. I will look for the green sparkles. All my testimages and charts are ok, but now I think I have a magenta tint, especially on skin tones. Sometimes I think it's a green tint, but then I adjust Ggain it doesn't help really.

My blacks are now no longer glowing as before, but it is not black. But I can live with it for now.
I can still see the blacker than black area in the lower right corner. The strange thing is, I thought these black pixels are just off when showing a black picture, but I could get them darker too with the voltage tweak. Now these blacker than black pixels are zero. They are blacker than the frame.

I hope a firmwareupdate can improve the picture further, or back to the 1016 image quality where so many talking about.


Zoyd, do you know what "Ve" does? And how can it be that after adjusting "Ve" to the sticker valu, that I don't get missfire anymore? I know this magenta thing is also missfire, but I don't get the normal missfire as before correcting "Ve", so I don't know exactly when to turn "Yrr" back a bit.
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post #176 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 04:55 AM
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Yup I also had that so what I did is rotate the YRR pot back a little until all those dithering from a full black screen is gone.

Me and lbm talked about this yesterday you can scroll up and check our messages.

:-) I love to see people coming together for a good cause. This is a good thread. I might have to turn mine back a tad bit more. But I did notice when I adjust my brightness the few flashing pixels went away. My brightness was set on 55. I just moved it to 56.
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post #177 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Zoyd, do you know what "Ve" does? And how can it be that after adjusting "Ve" to the sticker valu, that I don't get missfire anymore? I know this magenta thing is also missfire, but I don't get the normal missfire as before correcting "Ve", so I don't know exactly when to turn "Yrr" back a bit.

Thanks for the info, Ve is the voltage on the X electrode of the pixels while the other pots are for the Y electrode (Vs, Vsc) or address electrode (Va). There is a good general description of the pixel structure and operation here.
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post #178 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 07:23 AM
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Thanks zoyd, this is the best explanation paper I've ever read about PDP's.
I need some time to understand all this, mainly because of the english language

I checked my panel with a black image and could see some sparkles and some missfire. This missfire is only visible when using a black pattern. On the scrolling pattern it is not visible. I turned "Yrr" back a little, so that the sparkles and the missfire is nearly gone. It is hard to find the position of the pot where the mll is lowest and no missfire. With a colorimeter it would be easier.

I rechecked "Ve" and find out to achieve the 80V from the sticker I had to turn it fully clockwise. With the black pattern it has only 79V and with scrolling 80V. "Vsc" is now at -181V instead of -182V. But I didn't change it.

The green tint stays on mine, changed G-gain to 20 and R-gain to 22 on Movie mode and to G-gain 18 and R-gain 20 in Standard. Grayscale looks ok now, hope I can stay with this setting
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post #179 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 08:44 AM
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After I put it back together and made my last post I started going back into the thread and read your post about the same thing Joedoed. I hate when I do that, I always try to read everything first so I dont ask a question that was already answered, it was geting late(my excuse). I do have some question about the meters, I live by frys so is there an inexpensive meter I can get for say under $15. What kind of meter am I looking for and if I do get one how do I use it. Where do I clip to clips too and where do I find the recommended numbers for each pot. Sorry for all the question and if they were already answered earlier in this thread I apologize, just in a hurry have to get to work and dont have time to read through the thread. thanks in advance all
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post #180 of 383 Old 03-15-2012, 07:31 PM
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zoyd, I'm about to open up the tv to fix the green sparkles. I dont have a meter to get the voltage numbers so in your opinion should I leave the voltage alone or turn them a little. thanks
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