new Dlp or keep Plasma - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > new Dlp or keep Plasma
alholman85's Avatar alholman85 10:11 PM 02-06-2012
hey guys i just got a Panasonic tc-p60st30 plasma and the picture is amazing. I used to have a dlp a few years ago but hated the silk screen affect, where i could see the sreen in front of the image! How will the new 2011 diamond series dlp picture compare to my plamsa, and which models have the glossy screen to get rid of the silk screen due to the matte screen?

JukeBox360's Avatar JukeBox360 10:52 PM 02-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by alholman85 View Post

hey guys i just got a Panasonic tc-p60st30 plasma and the picture is amazing. I used to have a dlp a few years ago but hated the silk screen affect, where i could see the sreen in front of the image! How will the new 2011 diamond series dlp picture compare to my plamsa, and which models have the glossy screen to get rid of the silk screen due to the matte screen?

No brainier. Stick with plasma. DLP just isn't worth buying anymore.
mark62's Avatar mark62 04:11 AM 02-07-2012
DLP's truly suck...
jass5150's Avatar jass5150 05:11 AM 02-07-2012
DLP is an older technology, but it does give a "movie-like" image under dark conditions. My son still uses his DLP in his dedicated HT, but it is set up like a movie theater right down to the lighting and the popcorn machine. It looks like you would expect if you went to the local cinema, but it has no other use.

People today prefer the more "realistic" look of modern TVs, not to mention TVs that are more than one trick ponies. I would say that plasma is probably the best of the bunch in terms of overall picture quality, so unless you are building a dedicated home and need a huge screen (90" inches plus) where you will only watch movies, stick with what you have.
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 10:48 PM 02-08-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark62 View Post

DLP's truly suck...

With that pearl of wisdom, one can sure tell this is a plasma forum.
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 10:48 PM 02-08-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by alholman85 View Post

hey guys i just got a Panasonic tc-p60st30 plasma and the picture is amazing. I used to have a dlp a few years ago but hated the silk screen affect, where i could see the sreen in front of the image! How will the new 2011 diamond series dlp picture compare to my plamsa, and which models have the glossy screen to get rid of the silk screen due to the matte screen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jass5150 View Post

DLP is an older technology...People today prefer the more "realistic" look of modern TVs...


Older than what?

LCD and plasma are technologies that are at least 20 years older than DLP (Plasma 1964, LCD 1964, DLP 1987). DLP technology is therefore the definition of modern in comparison to either plasma or LCD. As for a "realistic" look, DLP is like looking through an open window, not an oversaturated screen door.

To answer the OPs actual questions, The 840 series in the 82" & 92" (not the 73") sizes have the Clear Contrast screen which is more similar to the Plasma type screen (very glossy as opposed to the matte screen). So the models would be WD-82840 & WD-92840. The Laservue A94 (75") also has this same screen.

The DLP's pixel speed is so fast, you don't have motion smearing like plasma, and if you watch 3D, there is no ghosting or crosstalk for the same reason. I have a DLP and am absolutely blown away with the PQ & size for the money. Absolutely worth looking into. I haven't found a plasma that size that even comes close. Or for that matter, I haven't found a plasma that comes close to that size.

If you're happy with your plasma, keep it. If you want a bigger screen and more immersive 3D for a lot less money, check out today's DLPs.
pokekevin's Avatar pokekevin 12:02 AM 02-09-2012
Saw some of the Mitsu DLPs and damn they look good. Things sure have changed since the last time I saw a rptv
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 02:31 AM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by butlerana View Post

DLP is an older technology, but it does give a "movie-like" image under dark conditions.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21618962

DLP technology is 20 years newer than LCD or plasma.

A properly calibrated TV needs 30-40 footlamberts of light output. My 3D DLP TV handles that with room to spare at a contrast setting of 42 (goes up to 63). No need for "dark conditions".
JukeBox360's Avatar JukeBox360 12:19 PM 02-09-2012
Still isn't worth a dime.
sage11x's Avatar sage11x 12:33 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post21618962

DLP technology is 20 years newer than LCD or plasma.

A properly calibrated TV needs 30-40 footlamberts of light output. My 3D DLP TV handles that with room to spare at a contrast setting of 42 (goes up to 63). No need for "dark conditions".

I was about to say... My cousin's 70+" Samsung DLP can get so bright it's actually uncomfortable to watch! Like someone was shining a light in your eyes!

DLPs issues have little to do with being too dim. Overall size (cabinet), viewing angles and lack of contrast along with poor reliability were always seen as being weaknesses of the tech. Still, when you turn the lights low and sit across the room from one of those monsters it's about the closest thing to a home cinema experience as you'll get outside a projector. I've always loved the picture of his DLP and if the tech hadn't become essentially extinct I had always wanted to own one myself (as a dedicated movie display). Like one poster above said-- there's no grid on a DLP! The picture is smooth as butter!
pokekevin's Avatar pokekevin 12:43 PM 02-09-2012
If you want the best bang for your buck screen size I'd say go DLP. I've actually been thinking about getting one myself
JukeBox360's Avatar JukeBox360 12:46 PM 02-09-2012
It doesn't even have best bang for buck anymore. SSE is on every single one of them. Off angle is the worst to date. Performs poor in bright rooms. There's a Reason you can buy a 60 DLP on Craigslist for $100.
sage11x's Avatar sage11x 01:03 PM 02-09-2012
You know... My previous post sounded encouraging but I was really reminiscing about DLP and lamenting it's premature demise.

To be clear: I would NOT recommend swapping your ST30 for a DLP. Simply put, DLP is an outmoded technology. The only company still producing these displays is mitsubishi and I'd sooner take my chances sharing my bank account information with a felon than roll the dice on purchasing one of their products. While I'm sure someone will pipe in with their "great experience" with whatever mitsu display they own-- I would urge you to consider empirical data from several consumer advocacy sites along with my own personal caution that Mitsubishi does NOT make a reliable product.
pokekevin's Avatar pokekevin 01:10 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

You know... My previous post sounded encouraging but I was really reminiscing about DLP and lamenting it's premature demise.

To be clear: I would NOT recommend swapping your ST30 for a DLP. Simply put, DLP is an outmoded technology. The only company still producing these displays is mitsubishi and I'd sooner take my chances sharing my bank account information with a felon than roll the dice on purchasing one of their products. While I'm sure someone will pipe in with their "great experience" with whatever mitsu display they own-- I would urge you to consider empirical data from several consumer advocacy sites along with my own personal caution that Mitsubishi does NOT make a reliable product.

Every product has a bunch of people saying it doesn't work! or its unreliable!

Just reread the OP post and see that he already has a tv. Keep the ST30. I thought you didn't purchase a tv yet
rich3fan's Avatar rich3fan 01:23 PM 02-09-2012



New York Giants suck.
JukeBox360's Avatar JukeBox360 01:25 PM 02-09-2012
Wonder what that makes everyone else. To bad for you. Move on.
rich3fan's Avatar rich3fan 02:06 PM 02-09-2012
Move on? Move on where? I own a DLP TV that works quite well. I don't see any indication that you're a mod here Juke.

Besides, the Patriots beat themselves, everybody knows that.
JukeBox360's Avatar JukeBox360 02:44 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post




New York Giants suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

Move on? Move on where? I own a DLP TV that works quite well. I don't see any indication that you're a mod here Juke.

Besides, the Patriots beat themselves, everybody knows that.

As I said. Move on. This isn't an NFL thread. No need to make it one. There are PLENTY of threads stating how bad the pats are and why they lost. Search is your friend.
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 02:45 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich3fan View Post

Move on? Move on where? I own a DLP TV that works quite well. I don't see any indication that you're a mod here Juke.

Besides, the Patriots beat themselves, everybody knows that.

THAT explains it. Is Jukebox360 posting in this thread also? Everyone should take his advice (in his signature) and ignore him. I did. No matter what thread he goes in, he tries to stir up trouble, poor soul.

He's probably flappin his jaws with all kinds of BS and inflamatory remarks, with no facts to back them up.
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 02:48 PM 02-09-2012
What's that old adage? "If one repeats a lie often enough, people will start to believe it". That predates the internet. Germany in WWII I believe.
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 03:30 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

...Simply put, DLP is an outmoded technology. The only company still producing these displays is mitsubishi...

DLP is not outmoded. See my posts above. It may be considered a niche product by some, but it is still the newest HD display technology readily available to consumers. (Only one company makes McLaren sports cars, but that does not mean McLarens are outmoded.)

It is correct that Mitsubishi is the only company producing the DLPs. After all, they invented RPTV, and have always been considered a boutique company arguably making some of the best big screen TVs. IMO, they are the only RPTV manufacturer because they defeated the competition.

Many other manufacturers tried to get on the DLP bandwagon, but couldn't manufacture reliable TVs. All their failures, and their failure to repair or replace defective TVs are well documented in these forums, and even spurred consumers to initiate lawsuits to force them to fix their problems. This bad reputation made some people shun DLPs in general.

Mitsubishi had it's share of problems, but Mitsubishi has consistently stood by it's product. Mitsubishi is the only RPTV company I know of not to be sued because of defective RPTVs. Every company that was sued, also got out of the RPTV business. Coincidence?

RPTV class action lawsuits and settlements in alphabetical order:

Hitachi http://www.angelreyesblog.com/2008/0...iled-by-horpb/
JVC http://www.topclassactions.com/open/...uit-settlement
Samsung http://www.topclassactions.com/lawsu...amsung-dlp-tvs-
Sony http://esupport.sony.com/docs/350799...s_Notice_2.pdf
Toshiba http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/03/class-action-se/

Also documented in these forums is Mitsubishi's record of fixing TV many YEARS out of warranty, with deals ranging from free parts to a new replacment TV. How many other companies do that?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post21282400

(Emphasis by me)
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolstrategist View Post

Well in the interest of this thread I will provide an update on my white dot issue...

The tech showed up at 10am and took all of 20 minutes to install the new light engine. All I had to do was sign and smile.

The 65833 looks great tonight and I am more than pleased with the Mits response and resolution to a problem on a 4 year old out of warranty DLP.

Thanks guys for the guidance.

Granted, DLP may also have suffered some in the "consumer" market because it is not flat. A flat TV on the wall is "cute" to a woman, and it sells because of it. To some people this is a deal killer for DLP. But most people get their flatscreens home and realize they need a cabinet for their AV equipment, and the flat TV typically sits on that cabinet, just as a DLP would.

Unlike some others in this forum, I have no axe to grind. All TV types have their advantages and disadvantages, whether DLP, LCD, or plasma.

Most new people post here to get real information, so that they may make their own buying decision. Let's not pollute the real information with fanboy nonsense and old wives tales.
LanceX's Avatar LanceX 05:18 PM 02-09-2012
Im sorry but DLP can not achieve near the PQ of plasmas man.

Its just the truth. Their PQ and black levels cant touch Plasma.

Their viewing range is atrocious as well.

Now im not a fanboy and I owned a 61 inch Samsung DLP and loved it but once I bought my plasma it just DESTROYS what I had.
rich3fan's Avatar rich3fan 06:05 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

As I said. Move on...

Say. Pretty. Please. Big. Boy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

THAT explains it. Is Jukebox360 posting in this thread also? Everyone should take his advice (in his signature) and ignore him. I did. No matter what thread he goes in, he tries to stir up trouble, poor soul.

He's probably flappin his jaws with all kinds of BS and inflamatory remarks, with no facts to back them up.

Nothing up to this point but I think he's had a few beers by now, which is when it starts to get quiet.

Augerhandle, I admire your willingness to jump into the shark here, but I have a feeling it's going to be an exercise in futility.

OP, I can tell you that my 57" Mitsubishi is coming up on 5 years, and after 1 lamp replacement and a lens cleaning, the picture is good as new. For an experiment, why don't you ask a similar question in the Rear Projection forum. That way, you'll get a much better cross section of opinions and facts about the two techs.
JukeBox360's Avatar JukeBox360 07:03 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceX View Post

Im sorry but DLP can not achieve near the PQ of plasmas man.

Its just the truth. Their PQ and black levels cant touch Plasma.

Their viewing range is atrocious as well.

Now im not a fanboy and I owned a 61 inch Samsung DLP and loved it but once I bought my plasma it just DESTROYS what I had.

It's the sad truth. Only reason I can think anyone would pick a DLP over plasma is budget. That's it. I had this debate years ago. Was going to get a 42 Plasma TV vs 65 inch DLP.

In the end. I picked the plasma. Size was great but the picture just sucked. Not half as sharp or crispy picture of even a cheap plasma.
losservatore 08:53 PM 02-09-2012
I swear something happens to people when they pass the 1,000 posts lol
Derek77's Avatar Derek77 10:47 PM 02-09-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by alholman85 View Post

hey guys i just got a Panasonic tc-p60st30 plasma and the picture is amazing. I used to have a dlp a few years ago but hated the silk screen affect, where i could see the sreen in front of the image! How will the new 2011 diamond series dlp picture compare to my plamsa, and which models have the glossy screen to get rid of the silk screen due to the matte screen?

I can't tell you how good the Mitsubishi DLPs are, but I just got a 55st30 to replace my Panasonic 50" DLP. Since I bought it in 2005, I replaced a fan and bought a new bulb, and even bought another so I had one on hand the next time it burnt out. A couple of weeks ago, the screen started exhibiting horizontal black lines in groups of 8 vertically across the screen. After doing some research, this was a common issue with DLPs by Samsung and Mitsubishi also. It is the DMD chip, which the part costs $900+ before installation. For a few dollars more, I got a really nice plasma. For the price I paid however, 7 years was not good shelf life. Anyone need a bulb for a Panasonic DLP?

PS - the plasma is amazing.......
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 12:06 AM 02-10-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceX View Post

Im sorry but DLP can not achieve near the PQ of plasmas man.

Its just the truth. Their PQ and black levels cant touch Plasma....

Black levels haven't been an issue since 2007 and Darkchip4.

From a c|net review: http://reviews.cnet.com/projection-tvs/mitsubishi-wd-65735/4505-6484_7-32924006.html

Quote:


...reproduces deep black levels



and that was from a review of a bottom tier 2009 model.



Next:

http://www.tecca.com/basics/lcd-vs-p...he-difference/
Quote:


DLP's biggest benefit, next to price, is extremely deep black levels.

The opening paragraph on that same site begins with:

Quote:


...LCD, DLP and Plasma, the most popular technologies behind displaying pictures on your HDTV. Each one has its own set of advantages and disadvantages, and rather than focus on a "winner," each technology has a specific reason for winning its own category.

Which is what I have said all along. Fair and unbiased.


The high end model plasmas may have the best black levels, but that advantage holds only in a completely darkened room. Turn on just one room light, and the difference means nothing. Yet it is the plasma owners that will be the first to say a DLP needs a darkened room, which just isn't true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LanceX View Post

...Their viewing range is atrocious as well...

How far to the side do you really sit when you watch TV? Even though it's hard to sit to the side of an 82" TV, let's see the view for ourselves. (That's an 82" TV that can be regularly found for well under $2000.) And it is in a well lighted room.




Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 12:50 AM 02-10-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek77 View Post

I can't tell you how good the Mitsubishi DLPs are, but I just got a 55st30 to replace my Panasonic 50" DLP. Since I bought it in 2005, I replaced a fan and bought a new bulb, and even bought another so I had one on hand the next time it burnt out. A couple of weeks ago, the screen started exhibiting horizontal black lines in groups of 8 vertically across the screen. After doing some research, this was a common issue with DLPs by Samsung and Mitsubishi also. It is the DMD chip, which the part costs $900+ before installation. For a few dollars more, I got a really nice plasma. For the price I paid however, 7 years was not good shelf life. Anyone need a bulb for a Panasonic DLP?

PS - the plasma is amazing.......

Sorry you had trouble with your TV, but all makes and types of TVs have failures, not just DLPs. I did a quick search and found this.

Quote:


Samsung TVs Tops in Sales ... and Complaints

First in sales, first in complaints? Do the two always go together?
In the case of flat-screen TVs, that certainly seems to be the case...

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...omplaints.html

I saw one article with hundreds of plasma failure complaints

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/home_electronics/zenith_tv.html

and although it seems to be mostly Zenith and LG in that article, there are similar results for the other brands.

By all of the reports, it would seem there's a lot of defective flatscreens out there.

The truth is, there are failures in any brand/technology. It's how the company takes care of them (or not) that makes the difference. If you go back a few posts, you'll see a link to a Mitsubishi customer who got their DMD chip replaced for free, a full four years out of warranty. I personally received a brand new TV a full year out of warranty. It's a shame Panasonic and others don't stand behind their product that way.
sage11x's Avatar sage11x 12:52 AM 02-10-2012
@Augerhandle Citing a list of lawsuits involving former manufacturers of rear projection TVs wouldn't really be where I would start if trying to convince someone of their quality / relevance.
Augerhandle's Avatar Augerhandle 03:09 AM 02-10-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage11x View Post

@Augerhandle Citing a list of lawsuits involving former manufacturers of rear projection TVs wouldn't really be where I would start if trying to convince someone of their quality / relevance.

That's the difference I guess. I cite facts and sources to back up my statements rather than unsubstantiated statements, old wive's tales, and outdated horror stories.

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, just dispelling the errors and half truths. I tried to answer the OPs questions, while others, rather than citing reasons to own plasmas, threw out the same ol' 6 year old FUD about DLPs.

As I've repeatedly stated, all TV types have their advantages and disadvantages, without the need to invent more. One must weigh the facts and decide which type is best for their use.

This is a plasma forum, so that answer is of course, plasma. The OP posted the exact same question in the rear projection Forum, and got a totally different set of replies. Imagine that.
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