Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 16 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #451 of 9993 Old 03-21-2012, 08:56 PM
Member
 
ceiph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
like lyris said, the question was does the tv sound better? and the answer is yes. now like most people on this forum i assume, i spent 2-3 on my speakers as i did on my tv and i feel like most people should budget to spend equal amounts minimum on audio video but that isnt the case and should be discussed elsewhere.

that said it is better.

hdsigma bestbuy should have them in store this weekend. mines from bestbuy i drove to the warehouse as soon as they had them.
ceiph is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #452 of 9993 Old 03-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
Beeron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northeastern NJ
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Sound is pretty good for tv speakers...I've certainly heard a lot worse. And while watching some of the Lakers/Mavs game tonight, there were some flashes happening...not enough to ruin the game, but certainly there.
Beeron is offline  
post #453 of 9993 Old 03-21-2012, 10:18 PM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Why would you spend $900 more for the Panasonic P65ST50 than the P60ST50? The maximum recommended SMPTE viewing distance is 8.8 feet for the P65 and 8.1 feet for the P60. For the equivalent P65 viewing experience, why not just move your sofa 8 inches closer to the P60 and save yourself $100+ per viewing inch? I could see paying $300 more for the P65 but not $900. I don't get it.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #454 of 9993 Old 03-21-2012, 10:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,093
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 448
I could see ignoring things like SMPTE viewing recommendations and getting the TV you want for your room.

What I can't see is reorganizing my room to accommodate a TV in a false attempt to save 50 cents a day over 5 years. Your choices are perhaps entirely different than mine. Neither is "correct".

The notion that some SMPTE recommendation is involved in this decision in any way is something I'd call somewhere between bizarre and insane. But again, your feeling might be that some recommendation from a standards body is some sort of gospel and matters more than your own personal opinions about what works for you. That's certainly your choice as well.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is online now  
post #455 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 04:26 AM
Member
 
BlindGoldfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeron View Post

Sound is pretty good for tv speakers...I've certainly heard a lot worse. And while watching some of the Lakers/Mavs game tonight, there were some flashes happening...not enough to ruin the game, but certainly there.

What TV do you have?
BlindGoldfish is offline  
post #456 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 05:05 AM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'll try it from a different angle. The Viewing Distance Based on Visual Acuity to fully resolve 1080p content is 8.5 feet for the P65. If viewing at a greater distance, one might as well view 720P content. The human eye can not fully resolve 1080P beyond that distance.

If one wants to take advantage of 1080P content and wants that complete immersion experience, it seams reasonable to me one should match the size tv to the viewing distance. My theater seating is flexible, so this works for me. Cable viewing - 9 feet, blu-ray - 6.5 to 8 feet.

This is a case where size does matter. Bigger is better is irrevalent. Bigger is better is for one's ego and sales hype. I don't think my concept is insane but is based on scientific principles. Oh, and your $900 argument, I could use that for a P65VT50 as well. It all depends on one's budget and preceived needs and HDTV viewing reality and not one's ego or bragging rights.

I'd rather design my theater on the IMAX model and not the driven-in movie model. Just my preference. Matching the tool with the job.

One other thing. The $900 MSRP difference between the p65 and P60 is way out of proportion with the others. $400 would be more like it. That was the original point I was trying to make.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #457 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 06:06 AM
Newbie
 
CrescentMoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

The Viewing Distance Based on Visual Acuity to fully resolve 1080p content is 8.5 feet for the P65. If viewing at a greater distance, one might as well view 720P content. The human eye can not fully resolve 1080P beyond that distance.

Small correction: though the human eye can not resolve the full 1080 lines beyond 8.5 feet, it can resolve 720p from 12.6 feet, so between 8.5 and 12.6 feet 1080p is still perceived as better than 720p.

As for viewing distance vs screen size, it depends heavily on personal preference. Though - technically - sitting 3 feet from a 23" screen is the same experience as sitting 8.5 feet from a 65", I much prefer the latter.
CrescentMoon is offline  
post #458 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 06:14 AM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the correction.

That said, watching the P60 would almost equate to watching the P65 at that distance give or take 8 inches. And for $900 less.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #459 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 06:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
wmwilker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 918
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

Thanks for the correction.

That said, watching the P60 would almost equate to watching the P65 at that distance give or take 8 inches. And for $900 less.

We get it.
As a new member we welcome you but you have to realize that this is a forum that has a section for high end stereo and home theater equipment. $20,000 and up. I certainly think that the perceived value is poor but there are others here that would gladly pay for a much larger screen. Your idea of a good value may not be the same as someone else.

Mike

wmwilker is online now  
post #460 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 06:50 AM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks.

I agree. Enough said.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #461 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 07:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
Adamd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 543
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 172 Post(s)
Liked: 69
I'm getting the 65 just so I can say, "oh only the 60 inch....."
Adamd is online now  
post #462 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 07:43 AM
Member
 
domain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasjw View Post

any news on the input lag?

HDTVTest measured at 16ms in Game Mode... I tried measurements as well (my methods were not super exact, but at least give a fairly approximate value:

Game Mode: 16.8-18.6ms.
Custom Mode: 35-39ms.

I left them as ranges as there is some margin of error in how I did the comparisons.
domain is offline  
post #463 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 07:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
Beeron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Northeastern NJ
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindgoldfish View Post

what tv do you have?

50st50. It also happened when I switched on a hockey game, as someone posted earlier in this thread.
Beeron is offline  
post #464 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 07:56 AM
Member
 
fej01z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 47
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My 50" ST50 arrives tomorrow afternoon. Ahh the debate between slides or no slides ....

Hoping that I can take some pictures next to my 55" LG LHX for PQ comparison before I move and mount the TV at the new house as I have 2 outs through my Yamaha 2010. Based on the above comments regarding lag I should be able to get them decently close.

Looking forward to my first 1080P plasma. Thanks to Chad and D-nice and all of the other contributors on this thread. Will give what feedback I can.

Fej
fej01z is offline  
post #465 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 10:00 AM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Adamd, some people do --- to themselves.

Good luck with your new 60 inch. That's the one I'm getting, too.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #466 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 11:30 AM
Member
 
caiman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 89
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by caiman View Post

D-Nice, it was mentioned elsewhere that Dither and color banding/posterization are weak points of the display. I'm new both to plasmas and to Panasonics, so consider these newbie questions. I know these questions won't be easy to quantify, so however you can explain it is greatly appreciated.

First, just how bad is the posterization? I know when I see posterization it drives me crazy; it's probably the main PQ trait that I draws my attention the most. When posterization is brought up as a weakness on a quality set such as this, just how bad are we talking? Like, you might notice a flash of it in a tiny section of the screen every few hours? Or, you'll see it everywhere if you're looking for it? To help reduce subjectivity, let's suppose I'm asking how often you personally noticed it.

And as for dithering, I suppose my main question is: in your testing, how far away did you have to sit in order to not see it at all?

Thanks for all your help. Your input and these forums are a life saver for me.

Hi D-nice, I posted this question a few days ago and you didn't answer. If you saw it and chose not to reply, that's fine. I just thought maybe it got overlooked because it got buried as the last post on the page.
caiman is offline  
post #467 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 11:53 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
rogo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Sequoia, CA
Posts: 30,093
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)
Liked: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post

I'll try it from a different angle. The Viewing Distance Based on Visual Acuity to fully resolve 1080p content is 8.5 feet for the P65. If viewing at a greater distance, one might as well view 720P content. The human eye can not fully resolve 1080P beyond that distance.

If one wants to take advantage of 1080P content and wants that complete immersion experience, it seams reasonable to me one should match the size tv to the viewing distance. My theater seating is flexible, so this works for me. Cable viewing - 9 feet, blu-ray - 6.5 to 8 feet.

This is a case where size does matter. Bigger is better is irrevalent. Bigger is better is for one's ego and sales hype. I don't think my concept is insane but is based on scientific principles. Oh, and your $900 argument, I could use that for a P65VT50 as well. It all depends on one's budget and preceived needs and HDTV viewing reality and not one's ego or bragging rights.

I'd rather design my theater on the IMAX model and not the driven-in movie model. Just my preference. Matching the tool with the job.

One other thing. The $900 MSRP difference between the p65 and P60 is way out of proportion with the others. $400 would be more like it. That was the original point I was trying to make.

No.

Again, you are arguing about something that is at best loosely relevant. It's like you telling that guy, "It's pointless for you to buy that AMG Mercedes since you will never be able to fully utilize its torque curve vs. the normal S class, so it's useless."

The 65" TV is always bigger than the 60". It's bigger at 2 feet away, it's bigger at 15 feet away. When I watch TV from my dinner table, I'm not sitting there worried about whether I'm resolving every pixel. I'm worried about whether the basketball players are too tiny for me to enjoy the game. A 65" TV is always better than a 60" TV for that, no matter what couch gymnastics and mis-use of SMPTE charts one decides to parade around.

Again, reasonable people can debate whether it's worth $900. That's still 50 cents a day over 5 years. What reasonable people shouldn't do is tell people what SMPTE says because normal people don't give a damn what some piece of paper tells them is the "correct" distance to sit from their TV. Normal people have a couch and a TV that are at distances that are dictated largely by the room. They may have some wiggle room in those distances, but often not terribly much (sometimes none at all).

The correct TV to buy is the one you want, not the one someone tells you to buy.

AVS seems to have tens of thousands of posts where people tell someone to buy a bigger or smaller TV based on the preferences of the poster, which is a case where the poster really can't help the person asking. Performance metrics? Sure, you can help. Personal size preferences? Guide someone to making a choice. Price/size tradeoffs? We all have different opinions about what's a good use of our money.

For me, $900 over 5 years for those 5 inches is a non issue. Not because I'm rolling in cash, but because there is no way I'm buying something smaller than a 65" TV.
shark7733 likes this.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
rogo is online now  
post #468 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Member
 
IR A IP T 0 IR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Not in the US.



Damn it!

Thank you for the response.
IR A IP T 0 IR is offline  
post #469 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Member
 
emp99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamd View Post

I'm getting the 65 just so I can say, "oh only the 60 inch....."

This man gets it.
emp99 is offline  
post #470 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 01:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
leftyguitar1963's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: North Texas
Posts: 878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

no.

Again, you are arguing about something that is at best loosely relevant. It's like you telling that guy, "it's pointless for you to buy that amg mercedes since you will never be able to fully utilize its torque curve vs. The normal s class, so it's useless."

the 65" tv is always bigger than the 60". It's bigger at 2 feet away, it's bigger at 15 feet away. When i watch tv from my dinner table, i'm not sitting there worried about whether i'm resolving every pixel. I'm worried about whether the basketball players are too tiny for me to enjoy the game. A 65" tv is always better than a 60" tv for that, no matter what couch gymnastics and mis-use of smpte charts one decides to parade around.

Again, reasonable people can debate whether it's worth $900. That's still 50 cents a day over 5 years. What reasonable people shouldn't do is tell people what smpte says because normal people don't give a damn what some piece of paper tells them is the "correct" distance to sit from their tv. Normal people have a couch and a tv that are at distances that are dictated largely by the room. They may have some wiggle room in those distances, but often not terribly much (sometimes none at all).

The correct tv to buy is the one you want, not the one someone tells you to buy.

Avs seems to have tens of thousands of posts where people tell someone to buy a bigger or smaller tv based on the preferences of the poster, which is a case where the poster really can't help the person asking. Performance metrics? Sure, you can help. Personal size preferences? Guide someone to making a choice. Price/size tradeoffs? We all have different opinions about what's a good use of our money.

For me, $900 over 5 years for those 5 inches is a non issue. Not because i'm rolling in cash, but because there is no way i'm buying something smaller than a 65" tv.

+1
leftyguitar1963 is offline  
post #471 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 02:03 PM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, Rogo.

I respect your opinion and you make some good points, but you're all wet.

This is my last response. I've pushed a few buttons. Not my intent.

If I may use a simple analogy that everyone should to be able to relate to.

Here goes.

My builder says that he will add an additional 200 square feet to my new 2000 sq foot home and it will only cost me an extra $90K over the original $210K. Over the course of a 30 year mortgage that additional 200 sq feet will only add an additional $600 to the $1470 monthly payment. Not bad, $600 more per month for 200 sq feet.

What a deal. Not! Oh, BTW, the house will be worthless at that point.

"But its what I want."

Go ahead. It's your money.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #472 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 02:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sheshechic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 2,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 90
$90k won't add $600 to a 30 year mortgage. And $90k for 200 sqft is cheap in some parts of the nation.

If you can't afford 50 cents a day over 5 years then that is a different matter and a new tv should be out of the question all together.

sheshechic is offline  
post #473 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 02:42 PM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK. I promise. This is the last response. Really.

Go to CNN mortgage calculator and do the math.

I forgot to add to my analogy that I make $1 meg a year, to be fair.

Wow, you're right! I can afford the extra 200 sq feet. Silly me.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #474 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 03:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sheshechic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 2,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 90
I used a different calculator and so went to CNN's -still not $600 for going up to $300000 from $210000.

Real estate is a bad analogy anyway.

sheshechic is offline  
post #475 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 03:33 PM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My mistake. It's $480 not $600 using 5% interest rate.

Thanks for your input.

BTW, my P65ST30 went belly up 2 months ago but I still want the ST50. Panasonic cut me a check.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #476 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 03:43 PM
Member
 
aggybong's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 104
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceiph View Post

hdsigma bestbuy should have them in store this weekend. mines from bestbuy i drove to the warehouse as soon as they had them.

The 55" and the 50", or just the 55"? So far BestBuy has had the 55" online for about a week, but there's still no listing for the 50".
aggybong is offline  
post #477 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 03:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sheshechic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 2,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcoyote View Post


BTW, my P65ST30 went belly up 2 months ago but I still want the ST50. Panasonic cut me a check.

How long did it take to resolve?

sheshechic is offline  
post #478 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 04:15 PM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Call me patient. It took 2 months. It had excessive line bleed. After changing practically every component the regional rep recommended replacing the panel. It was replaced and delivered. The delivery boys quickly left the scene before I could check it out. Bad panel 2 vertical bands 1 red one blue going from top to bottom. They were obviously tired of repairing it and delivered it anyway with the bad panel. The Panasonic rep said they should come back and take it back to the shop for further tests. "Something must be loose". Right! Panasonic finally gave in.
coolcoyote is offline  
post #479 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 04:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
sheshechic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 2,849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Wow, you are patient. I hope your next tv is all you expect and serves you well.

sheshechic is offline  
post #480 of 9993 Old 03-22-2012, 04:54 PM
Member
 
coolcoyote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you.
coolcoyote is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Viera Tc P65st50 Plasma Tv , Panasonic , Displays , Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P55st50 55 Inch Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P50st50 Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60st50 Plasma Tv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off