Official Panasonic ST50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 29 - AVS Forum
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post #841 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 98impreza View Post

I'm going to be buying a ST50 very soon and was wondering - is it really worth it to spend $550 more for the 60" compared to the 55"? It just seem like awfully a lot for 5 more inches. I will be about 8' away from my TV.

If money was no object than yes, but only you can judge wether the extra expense is worth the extra real estate. My budget is $1500 tops, so the 55" is what I am considering buying.
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post #842 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by roughdraft_zero View Post

I feel like I'm a mere day away from buying a 50" ST50. Gave lots of thought to both waiting to save up more to buy a higher model (VT), as well as just plain waiting until Winter for really good price drops, but my itch to have A television (haven't had one in six years) as well as my sensibility to not go crazy are finally convening haha.

So since the ST doesn't have the 10-point whatever, and only a "pro mode", would that make paying for a real-deal calibration useless? Can this thing be really, truly calibrated for an optimal image through simple menu controls?

Yes it can be professionally calibrated and you would still get a really good result imo

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post #843 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

OK, seriously, enough of the heat inuendo.

The display uses 250w calibrated according to Cnet at 55" (so it will be less for a 50"). It appears to be the most power-efficient Panasonic plasma ever so the notion that somehow it won't work in some application that a Panasonic plasma would ever have worked in before is a "conclusion in error".

Is that more than a current LCD? You bet, it's about 3x what a current LCD uses.

It's also less than a 3-year-old LCD uses.

Heat is not some magic function of plasma televisions, it's a function of laws of thermodynamics. A 55" set is about 20% larger than a 50" set. Because power consumption has historically not seemed to track area perfectly, I'll guess a calbrated 50" uses somewhere around 200-225watts. (Note: It can use much less, and it will in standard mode. Most people won't use it in this mode, however. It can also use more if it's run in Vivid mode, which also won't be done by any normal people.)

Oh, and the temperature of the store has absolutely no effect on the laws of thermodynamics. If you take a lamp with a regular light bulb to the south pole and place your hand on it after it's been running for about 30 minutes, your hand will most assuredly burn. The same lamp will burn your hand at the equator too.

The heat being released is a function of the electricity consumed and the portion of said electricity converted to light and the portion converted to heat. An LCD TV using LEDs as the light source is efficient at making enough light with relatively little heat loss (LEDs actually get hot, but you just don't need very much power to get light from them). Plasma TVs are much less efficient at making light without also generating heat. More power is required to even generate the light in the first place and a fair amount of said power goes to electronics that give off heat.

This is not magic, it's physics. Some models of plasma TVs are slightly more efficient at making light than others, but given how few manufacturers are left at this point, most are fairly similar in their efficiency.

Um

The temperature of the store does matter. The ambient temp of the air will determine how well it can cool the TV. If the TV is mounted on a wall near other large TVs the air in that area will be much warmer than the rest of the store and thus the TVs themselves will be warmer. Yes the TV will generate and the same amount of heat no matter where it is, but the environment definitely is a factor in how much heat is retained in and on the TV.
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post #844 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Yes it can be professionally calibrated and you would still get a really good result imo

I'm considering having mine professionally calibrated as well. I followed d-nice's settings to the letter, and it looks pretty good and I honestly don't really have any complaints... but if calibration will make a significant improvement on top of that I'll be even happier.
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post #845 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked View Post

I'm considering having mine professionally calibrated as well. I followed d-nice's settings to the letter, and it looks pretty good and I honestly don't really have any complaints... but if calibration will make a significant improvement on top of that I'll be even happier.

It all depends on panel variation imo

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post #846 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 98impreza View Post

I'm going to be buying a ST50 very soon and was wondering - is it really worth it to spend $550 more for the 60" compared to the 55"? It just seem like awfully a lot for 5 more inches. I will be about 8' away from my TV.

I would guess that the price for the 60" on Amazon will drop soon from MSRP $2100 to $1900 based on what happened to the 50" and the 55" prices.

The difference would then be $350.

FYI, if you're into 3D, keep in mind that Panasonic recommends a viewing distance for the P50ST50 of 6.23 feet and for the P65ST50 of 7.87 feet.
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post #847 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

OK

Rogo, when I first exchanged posts at AVS with you, I was amazed when you volunteered to help a stranger install a HDTV antenna on his roof. I thanked you and pointed out that my three son's should be able to do it for me. By the way, I never bothered.

Later on, I remember when you reached twenty thousand posts. As I sit on that cliff today, I want to thank you again for your contributions to AVS.

Cheers!
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post #848 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

No inuendo...just posting my observation which was contrary to a previous posters observation.

Don't really understand why you had a problem with my post.

Because the "OMG plasmas are too hot meme" is tired. And whether you intended it or not, you put fuel on that fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Condor View Post

Um

The temperature of the store does matter. The ambient temp of the air will determine how well it can cool the TV. If the TV is mounted on a wall near other large TVs the air in that area will be much warmer than the rest of the store and thus the TVs themselves will be warmer. Yes the TV will generate and the same amount of heat no matter where it is, but the environment definitely is a factor in how much heat is retained in and on the TV.

See, this is interesting. You're both right and wrong.

If the store is warm or, say, you live in Florida and it's summertime and your A/C is set fairly low, the contribution of a warm appliance or lamp or guy who just got back from a 10-mile run to a very localized space around it or him is going to be affected by the ambient temperature of the room.

We can all easily see this phenomenon if we want to on a cold day where we're cooking something in the oven. After the food is done, leave the oven opened (of course, don't do this if you have kids or pets or people who can't avoid the immediate area easily). The room will, in fact, warm up. That's because the oven is generating heat and the heat has to be dissipate somewhere.

But the question of whether or not the oven gets warm is completely independent of the temperature inside your house. The two are not related, which is why I used the light-bulb-at-the-south-pole example. Some of you might be able to try a poor man's version of that if you leave your refrigerator open long enough and touch the light inside there. My current fridge has LED lighting and is cool regardless and, again, I'm not advocating letting your food spoil, but on our old fridge, even after about 5 minutes, if you brushed the bulb with you hand, it would get a nasty, low-grade burn.

The bulb, you see, was hot. The LEDs are not. And the ambient temperature is irrelevant to this equation. Most airplanes spend a great deal of their time flying in temps of minus 40-minus 60 degree temps. Trust me, the engines are hot enough (even on the sides), to melt your skin off in a second or two.

So the question here is whether or not current plasmas get hot and the answer is -- at least as concerns Panasonic -- no, they don't. Do they get warm? Yes, they do. Could you put your hand atop the exhaust and hold it there for 10 minutes? I'm guessing that would send you to the hospital, even if you'd likely still have a hand -- unlike with the jet-engine example. (I'm guessing, please don't try this yourself unless you're sure the exhaust is mild enough).

The temperature of the TV is 100% a function of the laws of thermodynamics and energy. The TV -- in normal use -- is going to run around 250w. That's simply nowhere near as good as a currrent LCD. And it's nowhere near as bad as a plasma from a few years ago. Since the light output is comparable to (actually better) said plasma, the heat output has to be lower. There isn't any other possible conclusion to draw, unless the TV is defying fundamental laws of the universe.

(It's a bit more complex because the luminous efficiency has increased but since the electric consumption is so much lower and the luminous efficiency has, in fact, not increased by all that much comparatively, the remainder of the electricity -- the portion that gets converted to heat -- is actually dramatically smaller. A very rough guesstimate is that on my plasma, something around 250 watts is being converted to heat while on a newer 55" ST50 -- which is 20% larger -- that number is down around 100-125w. Since a 100w incandescent is absolutely horrendous at making light using electricity (literally close to 98% of its energy is converted to heat), it's quite probable that a 55" VT50 is putting out heat comparable to a single 100w incandescent. It's all-but certain that the heat output is not meaningfully larger than a 150w incandescent.)

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #849 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 02:35 PM
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In all of my years of producing free settings for you guys, I have yet to encounter anyone who did not see a difference post calibration. Always remember that my settings are not, nor have they ever been promoted to be, a substitute for a real calibration. They are only designed to be better than any of the OOTB video modes and/or what you could do with a disc like DVE.

If you ever did choose to get your display calibrated, you could get multiple video modes calibrated (i.e. Cinema for a daytime viewing mode and Custom for night). 3D could also be calibrated.... if you are into that stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked View Post

I'm considering having mine professionally calibrated as well. I followed d-nice's settings to the letter, and it looks pretty good and I honestly don't really have any complaints... but if calibration will make a significant improvement on top of that I'll be even happier.

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post #850 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

In all of my years of producing free settings for you guys, I have yet to encounter anyone who did not see a difference post calibration. Always remember that my settings are not, nor have they ever been promoted to be, a substitute for a real calibration. They are only designed to be better than any of the OOTB video modes and/or what you could do with a disc like DVE.

If you ever did choose to get your display calibrated, you could get multiple video modes calibrated (i.e. Cinema for a daytime viewing mode and Custom for night). 3D could also be calibrated.... if you are into that stuff.

Yep, I get that. I have no doubt it would look better. Only reservation is that it's a lot of money to spend on something I'm already pretty satisfied with and that it's difficult to predict how much better it will look. But I think I'm still mostly leaning towards getting it done.
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post #851 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 03:14 PM
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Not to argue Rogo but I think a better example is something along the lines of this:

A friend of mine had a computer that would overheat on warmer summer days. The reason being that the ambient temp of the room rose and thus his machine was getting warmer (warmer air in was not as good at cooling his CPU).

On cool days his CPU would run at about 75 degrees celcius (very hot for a modern CPU) and on warmer days it would hit 95+ temps. Therefore the the equipment did in fact run warmer which would produce more heat correct? If I touched the heatsink on a cooler day it was very hot but I could definitely put my finger on it deliberately and not get burnt. On the hotter days I was not able to even touch it for any amount of time without being burnt. Obviously this was because his thermal paste needed to be redone but I believe most modern electronics employ the same methods of cooling (heatsinks on chips, etc.) so the same issues could potentially apply.
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post #852 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by grantbcn View Post

Has anyone who currently has an ST50 in their possession tried to use a Bluetooth keyboard or a Bluetooth headset (e.g. mobile headset)?

I suspect Bluetooth on the ST50 is limited to 3D glasses only (versus keyboard, etc. support on the GT & VT50), but who knows? Perhaps the other Bluetooth profiles are available on the ST50 and are just not advertised.

Can anyone confirm that the new Panasonic plasmas are able to use a Bluetooth Keyboard? Which models?
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post #853 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 04:16 PM
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1. I promise you that if you put a 100w bulb out in the -70F/100mph wind of the south pole, it won't be warm enough to burn you.
2. The interesting thing that the report seemed to gloss over was that the original power consumption was around 130w UNcalibrated but over 200w calibrated. The author then mentioned something about the Energy Star ratings of new flat screens such that none would get a rating if it used over XXX watts. Which precluded any panel over a certain size (55"?) from getting an Energy Start sticker. To me, this means that the manufacturers are setting the panels at the factory to stay under a certain wattage so as to be under this limit.
3. Aircraft engines are so hot they have deicers.
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post #854 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 05:45 PM
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Yesterday I received the 50ST50. I ordered it from Amazon and it was delivered by CEVA. The delivery men set it up for me. They were very professional and knew what they were doing. Prior to this I had a 42" PX60U so some comparisons will be done to that set. From an asthetics point of view, I like how it looks. My particular set has a January build date and was assembled in Mexico. It's a lot thinner than my prior model and weighs about 10 pounds less despite the larger screen size. I opted to use D-Nice's non-panel prep settings with one adjustment (more on that later).
Some of the good points - the black levels are off the hook. I don't hear any buzzing. On one mostly gray screen I did see a slight pinkish hue around the edges, but in other instances it was fine. I didn't notice any FBr issues but I did see flashes during a basketball game which we now know is not an issue. Movies on good HD cable sources (e.g. HBO) as well as Blu-ray are stunning. The screen is only a little bit less reflective that my old set. One note about the filter - you can really notice it the closer you get to it and if it is below eye level (e.g. if it's on a low stand and you're standing right in front of it). The closer you are to this set, the higher it should be placed, at least eye level or above.

Now for some bad points. This set gets a lot warmer than my old one, maybe because it doesn't have the advantage of three fans that the PX60U had. As for the audio, I think it sounds worse than the PX60U which had speakers on the bottom front but which also increased the set's size. Voices sound somewhat hollow. I was able to make it sound a little better by changing one of the audio settings on my cable box. I'm not sure what this 8-chain speaker thing is but I only see one speaker on the back of the unit. It actually sounds louder behind the unit than in front of it. It does have a subwoofer but it might be a good idea to keep the bass as low as possible as I could feel the bass vibrations when placing my hand on the back of the unit. I'm not sure it's a good thing to have your TV vibrating. For watching movies I usually hook up my headphones via the cable box/blu-ray player, but for regular TV viewing I wish the sound was better.

My one complaint with the picture is that for HD programs that are live or on video (e.g. American Idol, late night talk shows) it's not quite as good as the PX60U. By no means is it bad. If I had to describe it though I would say it's not as crisp as my old set. It almost has a kind of matte look that you get with LCD. It's possible this is a result of going from a 42" 720p set to 50" 1080p. Again, by no means is the picture bad. It's just that the look is a little different from what I have been used to. In a couple of weeks I'll try using thg DVE disc to see if I can tweak the settings a little bit .

[Edit: See the post below. Changing the HD Size setting from 1 to 2 definitely improves the picture.]

Now about the settings. The one D-Nice setting I changed was the color temp, using Normal instead of Warm 2. I know Warm is the standard. Even the DVE disc indicates as such. To me though, using Warm gives whites too much of a yellowish tint. I remember when I first adjusted the settings on my PX60U it was the same way. Am I the only one that prefers Normal over Warm?

Tom
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post #855 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 06:14 PM
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@Tom

I also that HD the picture on my p55st50 was a little soft, changing the aspect ratio to full / hd2 seem to help
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post #856 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svgtom View Post

Now for some bad points. This set gets a lot warmer than my old one, maybe because it doesn't have the advantage of three fans that the PX60U had. As for the audio, I think it sounds worse than the PX60U which had speakers on the bottom front but which also increased the set's size. Voices sound somewhat hollow. I was able to make it sound a little better by changing one of the audio settings on my cable box. I'm not sure what this 8-chain speaker thing is but I only see one speaker on the back of the unit. It actually sounds louder behind the unit than in front of it. It does have a subwoofer but it might be a good idea to keep the bass as low as possible as I could feel the bass vibrations when placing my hand on the back of the unit. I'm not sure it's a good thing to have your TV vibrating. For watching movies I usually hook up my headphones via the cable box/blu-ray player, but for regular TV viewing I wish the sound was better.

Tom

Crappy internal audio has become the norm, in my experience, with all these newer LED and Plasma super-thin sets, which is not surprising since they are using tiny speakers and often down firing them or obscuring them behind semi-acoustically transparent plastic. I noticed this 3 years ago when shopping for my last set. I could have afforded the newest, most thin model but a couple things stopped me. One was that the audio, while having the same wattage by spec, was a fraction as powerful as the largest set I could get that still had a thicker structure. You can get into raging debates with purists here who will tell you it is completely irrelevant because no one should have the gall to buy a high-end large screen set and run audio out of it versus through a decent AV Receiver (or at least get a decent sound bar), and I won't bother countering that here except to say some of us do have need, desire for that...
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post #857 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Because the "OMG plasmas are too hot meme" is tired. And whether you intended it or not, you put fuel on that fire.



See, this is interesting. You're both right and wrong.

If the store is warm or, say, you live in Florida and it's summertime and your A/C is set fairly low, the contribution of a warm appliance or lamp or guy who just got back from a 10-mile run to a very localized space around it or him is going to be affected by the ambient temperature of the room.

We can all easily see this phenomenon if we want to on a cold day where we're cooking something in the oven. After the food is done, leave the oven opened (of course, don't do this if you have kids or pets or people who can't avoid the immediate area easily). The room will, in fact, warm up. That's because the oven is generating heat and the heat has to be dissipate somewhere.

But the question of whether or not the oven gets warm is completely independent of the temperature inside your house. The two are not related, which is why I used the light-bulb-at-the-south-pole example. Some of you might be able to try a poor man's version of that if you leave your refrigerator open long enough and touch the light inside there. My current fridge has LED lighting and is cool regardless and, again, I'm not advocating letting your food spoil, but on our old fridge, even after about 5 minutes, if you brushed the bulb with you hand, it would get a nasty, low-grade burn.

The bulb, you see, was hot. The LEDs are not. And the ambient temperature is irrelevant to this equation. Most airplanes spend a great deal of their time flying in temps of minus 40-minus 60 degree temps. Trust me, the engines are hot enough (even on the sides), to melt your skin off in a second or two.

So the question here is whether or not current plasmas get hot and the answer is -- at least as concerns Panasonic -- no, they don't. Do they get warm? Yes, they do. Could you put your hand atop the exhaust and hold it there for 10 minutes? I'm guessing that would send you to the hospital, even if you'd likely still have a hand -- unlike with the jet-engine example. (I'm guessing, please don't try this yourself unless you're sure the exhaust is mild enough).

The temperature of the TV is 100% a function of the laws of thermodynamics and energy. The TV -- in normal use -- is going to run around 250w. That's simply nowhere near as good as a currrent LCD. And it's nowhere near as bad as a plasma from a few years ago. Since the light output is comparable to (actually better) said plasma, the heat output has to be lower. There isn't any other possible conclusion to draw, unless the TV is defying fundamental laws of the universe.

(It's a bit more complex because the luminous efficiency has increased but since the electric consumption is so much lower and the luminous efficiency has, in fact, not increased by all that much comparatively, the remainder of the electricity -- the portion that gets converted to heat -- is actually dramatically smaller. A very rough guesstimate is that on my plasma, something around 250 watts is being converted to heat while on a newer 55" ST50 -- which is 20% larger -- that number is down around 100-125w. Since a 100w incandescent is absolutely horrendous at making light using electricity (literally close to 98% of its energy is converted to heat), it's quite probable that a 55" VT50 is putting out heat comparable to a single 100w incandescent. It's all-but certain that the heat output is not meaningfully larger than a 150w incandescent.)

What does touching a jet engine have to do with this? It's like saying well since your oven will burn you on its low setting and its high setting in a similar fashion, there is no difference in temperature between the two.

It is this simple: The TV generates heat and how it much heat it can generate does not change based on the environment it is in, at least not for the sake of this discussion. What does happen is that the heat generated by the TV is stored in the chassis, glass, and metals, but it is also constantly removed into the air and then most likely removed from your home via AC. The heat does not just disappear. If it is not removed the TV will get hot enough to start melting components, cause a fire, or burn your hands. Fans and heat sinks are used on electronic devices to help remove this heat into the air. The cooler the air, the greater it's ability to remove heat from the TV.

Why do you think electronic devices need ventilation?

This is not something unique to plasma.

Sorry for the sidetrack...
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post #858 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 07:26 PM
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Buying a 60" Plasma. Is the 60ST50 worth the few hundred $$ more than the 60ST30? The ST30 sure has excellent reviews. I have a 50p600u which I know has better sound than either, but which will give me the greatest PQ increase? No 3D needed. No BlueRay. Mostly HD Dish Network content.
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post #859 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98impreza View Post

I'm going to be buying a ST50 very soon and was wondering - is it really worth it to spend $550 more for the 60" compared to the 55"? It just seem like awfully a lot for 5 more inches. I will be about 8' away from my TV.

I don't think the price will be that high once they've been on the market for a couple of weeks. I think the difference will be closer to $200, not $500.

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post #860 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Because the "OMG plasmas are too hot meme" is tired. And whether you intended it or not, you put fuel on that fire.



See, this is interesting. You're both right and wrong.

If you read my posts, I actually complimented the display, so I wasn't trying to bash it. The simple fact is that the display I saw (and felt) was hot. Discount or spin it any way you like.
I don't need a degree in physics to tell me the panel felt hot, and I don't mistake hot for cold.

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post #861 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked View Post

Yep, I get that. I have no doubt it would look better. Only reservation is that it's a lot of money to spend on something I'm already pretty satisfied with and that it's difficult to predict how much better it will look. But I think I'm still mostly leaning towards getting it done.

You could always buy a consumer level probe and do the calibration yourself with free, easy to use software. Considering how well the ST50's calibrate, I bet you could get within imperceptible differences compared to a pro calibration.

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Originally Posted by tcat View Post

Buying a 60" Plasma. Is the 60ST50 worth the few hundred $$ more than the 60ST30? The ST30 sure has excellent reviews. I have a 50p600u which I know has better sound than either, but which will give me the greatest PQ increase? No 3D needed. No BlueRay. Mostly HD Dish Network content.

When it comes to money, it's always a personal choice, but the majority would say the extra few hundred is definitely worth it. The ST50 is already getting the nod from reviewers over the VT30. That should put it into perspective.

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post #862 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

You could always buy a consumer level probe and do the calibration yourself with free, easy to use software. Considering how well the ST50's calibrate, I bet you could get within imperceptible differences compared to a pro calibration.

I actually have a Spyder3Elite that I use to calibrate my computer monitors. I would so do that even just for the sake of experimenting and learning a thing or two, but it doesn't look like they sell the Elite to TV software upgrade anymore.

(EDIT: Nevermind, it's available for $60 USD still...)
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post #863 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocked View Post

I actually have a Spyder3Elite that I use to calibrate my computer monitors. I would so do that even just for the sake of experimenting and learning a thing or two, but it doesn't look like they sell the Elite to TV software upgrade anymore.

(EDIT: Nevermind, it's available for $60 USD still...)

Use ColorHCFR, CalMAN or ChromaPure (not sure if the last two are free, but ColorHCFR is). I used ColorHCFR and followed their step-by-step guide with an Eye-One LT (It supports the Spyder3). Now I operate without the guide because I'm comfortable with the software. Easy to learn.

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post #864 of 10011 Old 03-30-2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Vlad_Dracule View Post

Not to argue Rogo but I think a better example is something along the lines of this:

A friend of mine had a computer that would overheat on warmer summer days. The reason being that the ambient temp of the room rose and thus his machine was getting warmer (warmer air in was not as good at cooling his CPU).

On cool days his CPU would run at about 75 degrees celcius (very hot for a modern CPU) and on warmer days it would hit 95+ temps. Therefore the the equipment did in fact run warmer which would produce more heat correct? If I touched the heatsink on a cooler day it was very hot but I could definitely put my finger on it deliberately and not get burnt. On the hotter days I was not able to even touch it for any amount of time without being burnt. Obviously this was because his thermal paste needed to be redone but I believe most modern electronics employ the same methods of cooling (heatsinks on chips, etc.) so the same issues could potentially apply.

The computer itself runs at exactly the same temperature on warm days or cool days. But computer CPU coolers rely on pushing ambient air past the cooling fins on the heat sink. On a warmer day, the cooler is less effective and therefore it can't cool down the CPU as effectively.

It's confusing because the temperature we see reported is based on the feedback loop, not the raw CPU temp. Plasmas don't much rely on heat sinks, but they do rely on ambient air convection, sometimes using fans. It's true, therefore, they can feel warmer on a warm day because the cooling is less effective. The actual heat given off by the components, however, is the same.

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Originally Posted by Iron Condor View Post

What does touching a jet engine have to do with this? It's like saying well since your oven will burn you on its low setting and its high setting in a similar fashion, there is no difference in temperature between the two.

No, it isn't.
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It is this simple: The TV generates heat and how it much heat it can generate does not change based on the environment it is in, at least not for the sake of this discussion. What does happen is that the heat generated by the TV is stored in the chassis, glass, and metals, but it is also constantly removed into the air and then most likely removed from your home via AC. The heat does not just disappear. If it is not removed the TV will get hot enough to start melting components, cause a fire, or burn your hands. Fans and heat sinks are used on electronic devices to help remove this heat into the air. The cooler the air, the greater it's ability to remove heat from the TV.

Absolutely, the cooler the air.
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This is not something unique to plasma.

Nope, you are certainly correct.
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Sorry for the sidetrack...

No apology needed, but accepted anyway.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #865 of 10011 Old 03-31-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

Use ColorHCFR, CalMAN or ChromaPure (not sure if the last two are free, but ColorHCFR is). I used ColorHCFR and followed their step-by-step guide with an Eye-One LT (It supports the Spyder3). Now I operate without the guide because I'm comfortable with the software. Easy to learn.

Much thanks. Trying to find a guide in English for ColorHCFR at the moment, but this sounds like it's worth a look... if nothing else it should be a good learning experience.
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post #866 of 10011 Old 03-31-2012, 12:20 AM
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Saw my first content tonight for about 10 minutes, regular 720p HD via comcast with some upconvert via my Yamaha 2010 AVR.

Pretty impressed with the brightness and color reproduction. Blacks were better than I expected. Looking forward to some blu ray this weekend post move. Ran full D-nice slides and have his settings.

The audio I thought was pretty decent from a flat panel, but the TV is in a 6" deep drywall framed enclosure which probably helps reflect the sound which I noticed especially from the bottom opening. Could definitely be a lot worse. Normal listening was at about 15 from 8' away.

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post #867 of 10011 Old 03-31-2012, 01:40 AM
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@Tom

I also that HD the picture on my p55st50 was a little soft, changing the aspect ratio to full / hd2 seem to help

Thanks! This definitely helps. I forgot about the HD Size adjustment, not understanding the purpose of it when I first saw it.
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post #868 of 10011 Old 03-31-2012, 03:55 AM
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Rogo, when I first exchanged posts at AVS with you, I was amazed when you volunteered to help a stranger install a HDTV antenna on his roof. I thanked you and pointed out that my three son's should be able to do it for me. By the way, I never bothered.

Later on, I remember when you reached twenty thousand posts. As I sit on that cliff today, I want to thank you again for your contributions to AVS.

Cheers!

Goodness me, that was eons ago. I've installed and re-installed my own antenna about three times since (a move in there and a crappy mount that rusted). Apparently, you lived without yours.

I want to say three things:

1) Congrats to you on your 20,000th and your many, many contributions here.

2) You're most welcome.

3) Cheers to you as well and to the next many thousand!

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #869 of 10011 Old 03-31-2012, 07:43 AM
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Picked up a 55St50 last night. Don't have time to comment much right now. Easily the best TV I have had in the house. Jaw dropping, pants-wetting image and motion quality.

Couple of gripes:

- Netflix is not working. Have wired ethernet and tested other online content. So...???

- The camera flash strobing for hockey and basketball is extremely distracting. I guess I'll read up on this, but there is no fix at this time, right?
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post #870 of 10011 Old 03-31-2012, 08:08 AM
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Deadphish,

While watching hockey, do you find that the ice dims/grays considerably on full rink shots (ABL kicking in)?
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Panasonic Viera Tc P65st50 Plasma Tv , Panasonic , Displays , Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P55st50 55 Inch Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P50st50 Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60st50 Plasma Tv
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