Official Samsung PNXXE7000 - PNXXE8000 owners thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by deria View Post

In my earlier "initial impressions" post, I mentioned that I would check for the hockey-pops phenomenon.

I don't see anything wrong. I watched about 20 minutes of hockey highlights -- the only changes in brightness I saw were when people took pictures during big moments (ie: exactly what I would expect to see). If you rewind, the flashes come at exactly the same time and have exactly the same duration every time.

I definitely didn't see anything remotely resembling what that YouTube video that was posted earlier showed.

I watched in standard mode because in movie mode the ice looks yellowish with the CNET callibration settings. The only change I made to the standard mode was to turn off the eco sensor and to lower the sharpness to 0. Otherwise, I left everything alone.

As far as I'm concerned, the TV showed me exactly what I would expect to see if I was sitting in the arena.

The only thing I'm having trouble getting used to with this TV is the faintly discernable flickering (due to the refresh rate). I guess I'm just sensetive to that type of issue. It seems to be a general quality of plasma, though, so I'm not worried about it. The incredible picture quality more than makes up for it.

" I watched in standard mode because in movie mode the ice looks yellowish with the CNET callibration settings. The only change I made to the standard mode was to turn off the eco sensor and to lower the sharpness to 0. Otherwise, I left everything alone."

Standard mode is the most inaccurate mode on the E8000.. If you want a whiter white choose movie mode, then select in color temp warm 1..
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post #902 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by deria View Post

Watched Mission Impossible 4: Ghost Protocol on the PN60E8000 tonight. VERY PLEASED.

I still find the flickering thats visible during fades to black annoying, but I imagine I'll get used to it.

I have the E550 and it IS annoying. And it's not going to get any better, the more movies you watch the more it'll happen. Hopefully Samsung starts getting more complaints about it and issues some sort of firmware fix (a la last year's brightness pops).
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post #903 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 10:55 AM
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Standard mode is the most inaccurate mode on the E8000.. If you want a whiter white choose movie mode, then select in color temp warm 1..

Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Standard was a good mode to watch in -- what I meant was that I didn't feel like adjusting my color temperature or calibration settings away from the CNET settings so I just switched the whole TV to standard so that the whites would look reasonably bright/white since people had indicated the "hockey pops" happened during scenes with very bright white.
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post #904 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt Stieg View Post

I have the E550 and it IS annoying. And it's not going to get any better, the more movies you watch the more it'll happen. Hopefully Samsung starts getting more complaints about it and issues some sort of firmware fix (a la last year's brightness pops).

Well, I wasn't talking about where it turns the panel off when the signal is all black. I was talking about where (like during credits) the edges of the credits screen seem flickery. I asked my wife if she could see it and she looked at me like I was crazy, so I think I'm just susceptible to plasma flicker and she is not.
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post #905 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgon74 View Post

Standard mode is the most inaccurate mode on the E8000.. If you want a whiter white choose movie mode, then select in color temp warm 1..

You mean on the E series the dynamic mode is more accurate than standard? Wow.

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post #906 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deria View Post

Well, I wasn't talking about where it turns the panel off when the signal is all black. I was talking about where (like during credits) the edges of the credits screen seem flickery. I asked my wife if she could see it and she looked at me like I was crazy, so I think I'm just susceptible to plasma flicker and she is not.

I'm wondering what you're referring to as I can't say I see anything like that...but I'll try and pay attention and leave the credits running a bit on....uh, just what source and material do you see this on? Just credits? You watch credits a lot? Otherwise I'm wondering if you're referring the Fbr thing some sets exhibit more than others...

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post #907 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deria View Post

Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Standard was a good mode to watch in -- what I meant was that I didn't feel like adjusting my color temperature or calibration settings away from the CNET settings so I just switched the whole TV to standard so that the whites would look reasonably bright/white since people had indicated the "hockey pops" happened during scenes with very bright white.

Don't accept the cnet settings as gospel. The basics they give (bright/cont/cell/color/tint) are usually a good starting point, but odds are that the rest of the calibration is not correct for your set (we have shown over and over that copying full calibrations does not work on the D series - specifically, the color and white balance varies too much, even for the same model TV). If I were you, I would reset the white balance and turn off 10pt if whites do not look neutral. Then you are also free to play with color tone (after a real calibration, you should never change tone).
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post #908 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I'm wondering what you're referring to as I can't say I see anything like that...but I'll try and pay attention and leave the credits running a bit on....uh, just what source and material do you see this on? Just credits? You watch credits a lot? Otherwise I'm wondering if you're referring the Fbr thing some sets exhibit more than others...

Well, it is hard to describe. I want to be right upfront in saying that I don't think what I'm seeing is a problem with the TV -- if anything, it is more likely a problem with my vision.

To aswer your question about source/mode -- it is 1080p/24 from a PS3 using CinemaSmooth mode on the TV (which would make the refresh rate 96hz).

It isn't only on credits -- that just happens to be where I noticed it most last night. I also saw it at the start of the movie in between the banner warnings where the screen is predominantly black. It only seems to be around the edges (ie: in my peripheral vision) that I notice it. Essentially it looks like to me like what you would see with a CRT or a flourescent light -- a little bit flcikery. I'm sure I'm doing a terrible job of describing it. My wife, sitting right beside me, couldn't see it at all so I'm inclined to chalk it up to my own vision problems.

Today, with the same movie (and same source, and same playback mode) I don't see it. What is different? Off the top of my head I would say lighting conditions (the room is somewhat brighter than the pitch-black it was when I was watching the movie) and I just had a good night's sleep (ie: maybe eye-strain makes the flickering/pulsing more apparent).

Anyway, to be clear, I don't want to scare people away from this TV or plasma in general -- what I saw wasn't especially bothersome, didn't intrude on regular watching, and I would blame my vision before I'd blame the TV.
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post #909 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 07:49 PM
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I couldn't take it anymore. The black scene flickering combined with Cinema Smooth weirdness was too much for me to handle.

Gonna try one of the 65 inch Panasonic models next.
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post #910 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deria View Post

Well, it is hard to describe. I want to be right upfront in saying that I don't think what I'm seeing is a problem with the TV -- if anything, it is more likely a problem with my vision.

To aswer your question about source/mode -- it is 1080p/24 from a PS3 using CinemaSmooth mode on the TV (which would make the refresh rate 96hz).

It isn't only on credits -- that just happens to be where I noticed it most last night. I also saw it at the start of the movie in between the banner warnings where the screen is predominantly black. It only seems to be around the edges (ie: in my peripheral vision) that I notice it. Essentially it looks like to me like what you would see with a CRT or a flourescent light -- a little bit flcikery. I'm sure I'm doing a terrible job of describing it. My wife, sitting right beside me, couldn't see it at all so I'm inclined to chalk it up to my own vision problems.

Today, with the same movie (and same source, and same playback mode) I don't see it. What is different? Off the top of my head I would say lighting conditions (the room is somewhat brighter than the pitch-black it was when I was watching the movie) and I just had a good night's sleep (ie: maybe eye-strain makes the flickering/pulsing more apparent).

Anyway, to be clear, I don't want to scare people away from this TV or plasma in general -- what I saw wasn't especially bothersome, didn't intrude on regular watching, and I would blame my vision before I'd blame the TV.

Sounds like you're just seeing phosphor trailing/lags. Phosphor trails are non-repeatable, as in you won't actually see it in the same spot you saw before. They're also in "the eye of the beholder" so to speak, some see them (I do) and some don't.
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post #911 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cocoon View Post

I couldn't take it anymore. The black scene flickering combined with Cinema Smooth weirdness was too much for me to handle.

Gonna try one of the 65 inch Panasonic models next.

Really hope this issue gains more traction on the forums. Samsung needs to step up to the plate like they did with last year's brightness pops, but it'll only happen if people are loud enough. I really do want to keep my E550 but the flickering black fades could be a dealbreaker.
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post #912 of 4339 Old 04-28-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deria View Post

Well, it is hard to describe. I want to be right upfront in saying that I don't think what I'm seeing is a problem with the TV -- if anything, it is more likely a problem with my vision.

To aswer your question about source/mode -- it is 1080p/24 from a PS3 using CinemaSmooth mode on the TV (which would make the refresh rate 96hz).

It isn't only on credits -- that just happens to be where I noticed it most last night. I also saw it at the start of the movie in between the banner warnings where the screen is predominantly black. It only seems to be around the edges (ie: in my peripheral vision) that I notice it. Essentially it looks like to me like what you would see with a CRT or a flourescent light -- a little bit flcikery. I'm sure I'm doing a terrible job of describing it. My wife, sitting right beside me, couldn't see it at all so I'm inclined to chalk it up to my own vision problems.

Today, with the same movie (and same source, and same playback mode) I don't see it. What is different? Off the top of my head I would say lighting conditions (the room is somewhat brighter than the pitch-black it was when I was watching the movie) and I just had a good night's sleep (ie: maybe eye-strain makes the flickering/pulsing more apparent).

Anyway, to be clear, I don't want to scare people away from this TV or plasma in general -- what I saw wasn't especially bothersome, didn't intrude on regular watching, and I would blame my vision before I'd blame the TV.

Thanks for the additional details. It could be being tired, I know my eyes are much more sensitive/bothered by light when I'm tired. Could be you're sensitive in general, for example I normally do not see a flicker in a fluorescent lamp and I've worked under them for most of my life (except when the ballast is having issues or end of bulb life is near). I also have not noticed in my many years of CRT watching any flicker except those stupid old IBM ones (the greenish screen old monsters).

I have not the exact set you do (D series) but the same PS3 player. I'm watching a BR on it now and I'm a bit tired so maybe I'll get some myself if I pay attention to the credits (I rarely watch 'em, I've usually looked 'em up already).

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post #913 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 05:09 AM
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I'm getting an E7000 this week. I can't seem to find the CNET calibration settings that everybody talks about. Can't someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks.
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post #914 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sandman55 View Post

I'm getting an E7000 this week. I can't seem to find the CNET calibration settings that everybody talks about. Can't someone point me in the right direction?
Thanks.

try this its for the e8000 but it may be helpful

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/

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post #915 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 10:19 AM
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This black thing is preventing me from committing to this TV and I need to endure another weekend without a telly whilst awaiting the day my other choices show up down here.
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post #916 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 10:26 AM
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How bright does your Room have to be for Motion Control on the PN51E8000? My room is real bright but when I do the test it fails each time and says I need to make my room brighter.
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post #917 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

This black thing is preventing me from committing to this TV and I need to endure another weekend without a telly whilst awaiting the day my other choices show up down here.

i think you need to wait we can't make up your mind. i have a PN60E8000 and love it. The blacks are great no buzz no brightness pops what can i say but if you are looking for faults in any TV. you will find it no matter what you get.

Good luck with your quest
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post #918 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 12:26 PM
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I would imagine the flickering should be addressable with a firmware update, and since it's early in the year you are likely to have a few coming. It would probably be helpful if everyone affected can report the issue to tech support.
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post #919 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 01:25 PM
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Well the flickering now appears to be adjustable. Last night on my E550, pushing contrast from default (movie mode) 95 to 100 and brightness from default 45 to 46 eliminates it. At those adjusted settings, the screen now stays on during the completely black screen overture at the beginning of It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World (with the default settings the screen would flicker back and forth several times at the very beginning and finally shut off). Likewise, the fade in The Lost Boys between the scene at the beginning of the film where the vampires nab the amusement park security guard in the parking lot and the opening credits now stays on, whereas before it would flicker off and on two or three times. These were the only two things I tested last night before going to bed but I would imagine all fade outs/ins would be the same.

Keeping brightness at 46 and dialing contrast back down to default 95 would re-introduce the flickering. Likewise, keeping contrast at 100 but dialing brightness down one tick to default 45 would again introduce flickering. Pushing brightness beyond 46 introduced minor dithering in letterbox bars and at 49 it was all-out full blown dithering. I did not test contrast between 95 and 100 so I don't know about any of those settings.

The thing is, I don't know if I necessarily like the way the adjusted settings look compared to default movie mode, but I didn't really see any discernible difference on the Disney WOW black and white clipping test other than at contrast 100 the brightest white stars near 255 blended into the background, so maybe it's just in my head (this was around 4 in the morning too so I was pretty tired, lol).
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post #920 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 02:36 PM
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One day left in my 30 day return cycle with BB so I decided to checkout the 55GT50, sitting right next to the 51e8000. Both playing star trek.

This is far from a scientific comparison, but eyeballing the two, the gt50 had better black levels (tbh not sure what setting each was on)
otherwise PQ on the e8000 was slightly better. Had it not been for the black levell the e8000 would have completely been ahead of the gt50. Once again this is just my opinion.

The deeper black level has a way of pulling you into the movie making it more immersive.

At this point I think I will stay with Samsung, hedging my bet on the evolution kit, plus supposedly better IR resistance. I do have until 4/30 to return, so maybe I'll sleep on it
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post #921 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 03:44 PM
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Thanks. Just what I was looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

try this its for the e8000 but it may be helpful

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_10...ture-settings/

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post #922 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Yep when an option is grayed out that is because it's not available with your current settings...if you want to use pixel shift I believe it works with all the other picture size settings. Be nice if there were a handy dandy chart from Samsung on what settings work with what...but this info isn't even shown in the manual (maybe the tv's on screen manual but I find that a pain).

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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

But content that was originally produced for NTSC and converted for broadcast in ATSC will still contain the information in the vertical blanking lines. The flicker at the top of a standard definition program (one that by definition was produced for NTSC broadcast) is the closed caption data. Until all content is created in true HD format, this VBI data will be present.

Larry

To be honest, VBI/CC data rarely stick their ugly heads out anymore in today's (mostly) digital world. Modern programming won't show it.
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post #923 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 07:16 PM
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To be honest, VBI/CC data rarely stick their ugly heads out anymore in today's (mostly) digital world. Modern programming won't show it.


Then my combination of a 64D7000 and a DTV HR24 must be the exception that proves the rule.

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post #924 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 07:33 PM
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BTW, is the black problem on CS mode resolved in the older D8000?

Conceivable this current black can be fixed? I suspect it's a way of conserving energy...
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post #925 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckZ View Post

To be honest, VBI/CC data rarely stick their ugly heads out anymore in today's (mostly) digital world. Modern programming won't show it.

I see it occasionally using DirecTV, rarely on the HD channels, tho.

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post #926 of 4339 Old 04-29-2012, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I see it occasionally using DirecTV, rarely on the HD channels, tho.


Right, you may not see it but it is there. It is an inherent part of the NTSC signal. And if a program is recorded or broadcast in NTSC even if it is shown on a high def station, it is there and sometimes will show up.

To see this for yourself, tune to a station showing a 4:3 aspect picture -- it doesn't matter whether the station is a HD or SD one. Bring up any menu on the directv box where the station content is shown in the upper left hand corner. You will see the dithering horizontal white lines. (Use TCM for your SD channel and a HD channel showing a SD program -- like Fraiser on Hallmark HD.)

My point is that it doesn't matter whether or not it is a "digital world." After all, DVD stands for 'digital video disk' but the content is still from a 480i analog technology and even though it has been converted to digits the vertical blanking lines are still there. That's why we still are able to watch a digital video disk on an analog TV.


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post #927 of 4339 Old 04-30-2012, 06:33 AM
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hi guys. i just received my e7000 60 in. Watching the flyers game yesterday.. Every so often the screen seemed to be flashing white, almost like a camera flash. Is this the same thing everyone else is talking about? It's very concerning to me. The movies we watched were all brilliant, the TV shows were fine etc, but the hockey at times seemed to be like there was a strobe light.
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post #928 of 4339 Old 04-30-2012, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Flipadelphia26 View Post

hi guys. i just received my e7000 60 in. Watching the flyers game yesterday.. Every so often the screen seemed to be flashing white, almost like a camera flash. Is this the same thing everyone else is talking about? It's very concerning to me. The movies we watched were all brilliant, the TV shows were fine etc, but the hockey at times seemed to be like there was a strobe light.

Bingo! it's a camera flash.
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post #929 of 4339 Old 04-30-2012, 07:53 AM
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Bingo! it's a camera flash.

Is there any possible way to filter it out or tone it down? The whole screen lights up and it seems like a glitch.
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post #930 of 4339 Old 04-30-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Flipadelphia26 View Post

Is there any possible way to filter it out or tone it down? The whole screen lights up and it seems like a glitch.

the way to filter it out is change the channel and watch something else or tell all those people at the games to turn off their cameras LOL
it's all part of the feed if you were at the game you would see those cameras flashing

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