Official Samsung PNXXE7000 - PNXXE8000 owners thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

Interesting findings tonight during some testing. I noticed that CS seem to be stable on the new set (finally), so i put the meter on it. Results are interesting to say the least.
CS OFF - 0% black=.0064 100% white=38.60
CS ON - 0% black=.0049 100% white=36.32
D3pro meter

Interesting....but do you have the values flip-flopped?

If not, looks like no change in black levels vs. 2011 models with CS Off.

But black levels look improved with CS on.... and best the 2011's BL with CS off??
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post #182 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

Interesting findings tonight during some testing. I noticed that CS seem to be stable on the new set (finally), so i put the meter on it. Results are interesting to say the least.
CS OFF - 0% black=.0064 100% white=38.60
CS ON - 0% black=.0049 100% white=36.32
D3pro meter

It's really frustrating how much worse the max brightness is on these newer models, both Sammy and Panny. When D-Nice calibrated my Samsung in mid-2009 it measured 52.2 @ 100% (FYI, 0% was 0.0088, which was great for a Sammy at the time). It's no wonder the sets I have seen in the store more recently look so dim. Is this a result of what they did for the energystar compliance or something else?
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post #183 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

Interesting....but do you have the values flip-flopped?

If not, looks like no change in black levels vs. 2011 models with CS Off.

But black levels look improved with CS on.... and best the 2011's BL with CS off??

The values are not flopped. The black levels are better with CS engaged.

Mike

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post #184 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

It's really frustrating how much worse the max brightness is on these newer models, both Sammy and Panny. When D-Nice calibrated my Samsung in mid-2009 it measured 52.2 @ 100% (FYI, 0% was 0.0088, which was great for a Sammy at the time). It's no wonder the sets I have seen in the store more recently look so dim. Is this a result of what they did for the energystar compliance or something else?

I agree that the EnergyStar is going to kill high end displays.
I walked into Adrian S house yesterday and the first thing I noticed was how dark the picture was. His previous set was a D8000 that was calibrated to 40+ fL and had the plasma pop. His room has a lot of light and the D series handled it well. I don't think the E series will unless the 7 or 8000 have a much brighter picture. Right now it looks like Panasonic might be the way to go this year. D-Nice reported having an ST50 at 50+ fL

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post #185 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

It's really frustrating how much worse the max brightness is on these newer models, both Sammy and Panny. When D-Nice calibrated my Samsung in mid-2009 it measured 52.2 @ 100% (FYI, 0% was 0.0088, which was great for a Sammy at the time). It's no wonder the sets I have seen in the store more recently look so dim. Is this a result of what they did for the energystar compliance or something else?

*I'm not an expert, but I think it depends on the type of technique used for measuring brightness. I want to say it has to do with window sizes in calibration/measurements.

*If memory serves right, I remember reading that plasma displays have actually been getting brighter.... it is only their default picture modes that are gradually getting LESS bright - to meet energy star standards.
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post #186 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by rootie View Post

Long story short, I was loving the d8000 when I notice an occasional freeze in the picture. Thought it might be the directv receiver but, because I was still in my 30 days with bb, didn't want to risk that it was the tv. So I decided to get the newer set - faster processor, darker bezel, camera, etc.

And for those wondering, absolutely no Fbr issues with the e. Not even in 3D, although I haven't watched that much 3D yet.

Hi, I'm interested in knowing if 3D is brighter than the D8000 or not?
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post #187 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by jamesco411 View Post

*I'm not an expert, but I think it depends on the type of technique used for measuring brightness. I want to say it has to do with window sizes in calibration/measurements.

*If memory serves right, I remember reading that plasma displays have actually been getting brighter.... it is only their default picture modes that are gradually getting LESS bright - to meet energy star standards.

D-Nice did my calibration and measurements in 2009. So presuming he stays true to the same techniques he used in 2009, he's still reported lower max brightness on 2011 sets in other posts than my old 2009 Samsung. Hopefully it gets better but it concerns me. It feels like a repeat of digital cameras where newer isn't necessarily better. The sweet spot for p&s digital cameras seems to have been around 8 megapixels. Later models that crammed more pixels onto the same sensor size just generated worse pictures (that took up more memory) and I still miss my old Canon's PQ.
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post #188 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by laststop311 View Post

I don't see how these samsungs will be successful when they enforce UPP so strictly. The only reason people buy samsung plasmas is because they are cheaper per sq inch of screen space than the comparable model from panasonic. With this UPP enforced so strict samsungs price advantage vanishes and it would be foolish to pay the same for a lower quality picture.

That's not the only reason they buy Sammy over Panny. I could get the VT30 right now for the same price as the D8000 (actually probably a little less) and within $150 of the D700. Yet the one I would get, if any, is the D7000, with the D8000 second and the VT30 last. The PQ seems more or less a trade-off of comparable -- slightly better blacks from the Panny and better color accuracy from the Sammy. So that being equal it comes down to features and aesthetics and the Sammy wins both (in 2011). I prefer the bluetooth 3D glasses, the glasses cost one-fifth as much per set for the Sammy, the Sammy is much lighter, it has the swivel stand, etc. Both sets had problems int he first half of the year and both have fixed them (with the exception that Panny decided not to fix the color decoding issue). So even if the price were the same per inch I would have gone with the Sammys.

Now 2012 may be a different story. So the early reports on the VT50 and the actual measurable results from the ST50 suggest they evolved meaningfully over 2011, while the early buzz (no pun intended) on the Sammy's suggest a mild improvement (which is still great). I also like the look of the VT50 and they finally embraced bluetooth glasses. And, pre-order prices on the VT50 are meaningfully cheaper than the E8000, though that could change. But in any event Panny has not announced any universal pricing plans.
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post #189 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 07:20 AM
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So E8000 has 0.0049 and ST50 has 0.0028 black levels. Is that huge difference in real life or just minor?

I currently have 51D555(D550). I have horizontal lines/banding and lots of ir, none of it is persistant though.

Now i need 60-65 inch plasma and one that doesnt reflect much because i moved to a bigger house and there is more windows and daylight. Also i want 3D brightess more. If E-series have fixed those problems i might get it

The reason why im affraid to buy ST50 is beause D-Nice reported that it has persistant ir. I think Samsung 59-64 inchers will be much safer than panasonics. Also i still feat the raising blacks on panasonic. So looks like im going to get Samsung afterall. E7000 or E8000.
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post #190 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jtm79 View Post

So E8000 has 0.0049 and ST50 has 0.0028 black levels. Is that huge difference in real life or just minor?

I currently have 51D555(D550). I have horizontal lines/banding and lots of ir, none of it is persistant though.

Now i need 60-65 inch plasma and one that doesnt reflect much because i moved to a bigger house and there is more windows and daylight. Also i want 3D brightess more. If E-series have fixed those problems i might get it

The reason why im affraid to buy ST50 is beause D-Nice reported that it has persistant ir. I think Samsung 59-64 inchers will be much safer than panasonics. Also i still feat the raising blacks on panasonic. So looks like im going to get Samsung afterall. E7000 or E8000.

What he said was ir resulting from a torture test. You just have to be mindful of viewing habits. Yes .0049 and .0028 is huge, unless you don't think half is huge

consider the source
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post #191 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

What he said was ir resulting from a torture test. You just have to be mindful of viewing habits. Yes .0049 and .0028 is huge, unless you don't think half is huge

half is relevant - $2.00 to $4.00
$2,000,000. - $4,000,000

just cause something is half does not mean squat.

Truth be told the difference is barley noticeable and many would not even notice a difference at all. Unless you watch tv with a meter, which would make watching a movie pointless to begin with.

You need to have something more substantial then just saying it is half, otherwise it means bunk !!



god bless

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post #192 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by adrian s View Post

What he said was ir resulting from a torture test. You just have to be mindful of viewing habits. Yes .0049 and .0028 is huge, unless you don't think half is huge

Yeah well my 51D555 will get lots of ir very easily and it also goes away easily. I have played Mass Effect 6-7 hours and the ir will go away in few minutes.

Also Panasonic 2011 models seem to get worse ir after 1000 hours or so. And what about rising blacks? Did 2011 models suffer from this?

I guess you could see 0.0049 and 0.0028 side by side in total dark, but i usually have ambient light behind my tv anyway.
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post #193 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jbug View Post


Hi, I'm interested in knowing if 3D is brighter than the D8000 or not?

I've not watched very much 3d yet, but my initial impression was that the picture seemed brighter. I read that might be due to better glasses this year, but I can't verify the glasses I have now are any better/different than those I received with the d.
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post #194 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:27 AM
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So no one has mentioned the E7000 yet, only the 8000. What is the release date on the E7000? I am not interested in the camera and motion control.
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post #195 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by tonyjd40 View Post

half is relevant - $2.00 to $4.00
$2,000,000. - $4,000,000

just cause something is half does not mean squat.

Truth be told the difference is barley noticeable and many would not even notice a difference at all. Unless you watch tv with a meter, which would make watching a movie pointless to begin with.

You need to have something more substantial then just saying it is half, otherwise it means bunk !!



god bless

Tony you are really starting to sound like a fan boy.

I own a Samsung now but if I were buying this year I would have to consider the Panasonic as a better buy (as of now - of course as we know more about the sets that may change).

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post #196 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by dodkalm81 View Post

So no one has mentioned the E7000 yet, only the 8000. What is the release date on the E7000? I am not interested in the camera and motion control.

yes please, i don't need my tv to be "smart" i have a laptop/ipad/iphone for browsing the internet. all my apps are run from the blu-ray player (which is much easier/cheaper than upgrading a TV for the 'new' apps). i would have gotten a d7000 but my A/V installer recommended waiting and now they're out of stock (from his dealers). so where are the 7000s???
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post #197 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Tony you are really starting to sound like a fan boy.

I own a Samsung now but if I were buying this year I would have to consider the Panasonic as a better buy (as of now - of course as we know more about the sets that may change).

Well so far its only fact that Panasonic have slightly better blacks, that alone is no reason say Panasonic is a better buy. Cant wait for more reviews.
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post #198 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 08:57 AM
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Well so far its only fact that Panasonic have slightly better blacks, that alone is no reason say Panasonic is a better buy. Cant wait for more reviews.

Being able to output more luminance is a big deal too.
We'll see as the reviews for the 7000 & 8000 and GT and VT come out.

Mike

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post #199 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 09:00 AM
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What he said was ir resulting from a torture test. You just have to be mindful of viewing habits. Yes .0049 and .0028 is huge, unless you don't think half is huge

Adrian S - I thought you said you had a E6500...
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post #200 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 09:05 AM
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I was hoping Samsung would have come out with a larger PDP by now. A 64" is ok but I want something in the 70+ range. If the 64E is brighter for 3D over last year's model, then I guess I could be satisfied, for a while.
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post #201 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 09:14 AM
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Adrian S - I thought you said you had a E6500...

You are correct
micromini likes this.

consider the source
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post #202 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Being able to output more luminance is a big deal too.
We'll see as the reviews for the 7000 & 8000 and GT and VT come out.

Is it allready fact that Panasonics are brighter than Samsungs? I thought they are more like equal.
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post #203 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Jtm79 View Post


Is it allready fact that Panasonics are brighter than Samsungs? I thought they are more like equal.

For 2012, Panny is boasting a 30% brightness jump. Early CES reports seem to confirm this. If it holds true, I'd find it hard to go with a Samsung this year.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

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post #204 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 09:55 AM
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For 2012, Panny is boasting a 30% brightness jump. Early CES reports seem to confirm this. If it holds true, I'd find it hard to go with a Samsung this year.

Yeah but last year Panny was probably 30% behind Samsung.

Flatpanels hd measured VT80 89 cdm2 while Samsung D8000 measured 126cdm2. So adding 30% to Panny doesnt seem to beat Samsung. Correct me if im wrong?
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post #205 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Citivas View Post

That's not the only reason they buy Sammy over Panny. I could get the VT30 right now for the same price as the D8000 (actually probably a little less) and within $150 of the D700. Yet the one I would get, if any, is the D7000, with the D8000 second and the VT30 last. The PQ seems more or less a trade-off of comparable -- slightly better blacks from the Panny and better color accuracy from the Sammy. So that being equal it comes down to features and aesthetics and the Sammy wins both (in 2011). I prefer the bluetooth 3D glasses, the glasses cost one-fifth as much per set for the Sammy, the Sammy is much lighter, it has the swivel stand, etc. Both sets had problems int he first half of the year and both have fixed them (with the exception that Panny decided not to fix the color decoding issue). So even if the price were the same per inch I would have gone with the Sammys.

Now 2012 may be a different story. So the early reports on the VT50 and the actual measurable results from the ST50 suggest they evolved meaningfully over 2011, while the early buzz (no pun intended) on the Sammy's suggest a mild improvement (which is still great). I also like the look of the VT50 and they finally embraced bluetooth glasses. And, pre-order prices on the VT50 are meaningfully cheaper than the E8000, though that could change. But in any event Panny has not announced any universal pricing plans.

Another reason might be that Samsungs spend more money on advertising and to ensure that their sets get better placement and displays in stores (especially BB). This Sunday all the flyers were loaded with Samsungs and I didn't see any new top tier Panasonics at all.

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Originally Posted by Jtm79 View Post

Is it allready fact that Panasonics are brighter than Samsungs? I thought they are more like equal.

Adrian was only able to get 38 fL where as D-Nice was able to get over 50 fL.
I'm sure Adrian will correct me if I'm wrong.

Now 50 fL is an eye burner in a dark room but one calibrated in the 40's would be good in a brightly lit room. 38 is good in a dimly lit room so it will depend on your needs.

Mike

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post #207 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 10:14 AM
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[quote=Jtm79;21828899]Yeah well my 51D555 will get lots of ir very easily and it also goes away easily. I have played Mass Effect 6-7 hours and the ir will go away in few minutes.

Also Panasonic 2011 models seem to get worse ir after 1000 hours or so. And what about rising blacks? Did 2011 models suffer from this?

I guess you could see 0.0049 and 0.0028 side by side in total dark, but i usually have ambient light behind my tv anyway.[/quote

Rising blacks is no long an issue.

The VT30 had worse IR after 1000 and you couldn't have paid me to buy that TV or any other 2011 set. 2011 was a mess. I have a 25 and watch a lot of news shows- no IR while watching regular content and I don't go looking for it on an all white slide either.

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post #208 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Another reason might be that Samsungs spend more money on advertising and to ensure that their sets get better placement and displays in stores (especially BB). This Sunday all the flyers were loaded with Samsungs and I didn't see any new top tier Panasonics at all.

Samsung will probably outsell Panasonic by at least 2 to 1. They have so many LCD models which is what most people buy.

Panasonic is just now seriously trying to get in the LCD market.

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post #209 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Samsung will probably outsell Panasonic by at least 2 to 1. They have so many LCD models which is what most people buy.

Panasonic is just now seriously trying to get in the LCD market.

Maybe, maybe not. LG makes a better LCD.

And for less $$$ too.

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post #210 of 4291 Old 03-26-2012, 10:20 AM
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Yeah but last year Panny was probably 30% behind Samsung.

Flatpanels hd measured VT80 89 cdm2 while Samsung D8000 measured 126cdm2. So adding 30% to Panny doesnt seem to beat Samsung. Correct me if im wrong?

I can personally attest to the Samsung d8000 being noticeably brighter than the Panny vt30. I originally purchased the vt30, then exchanged it for the d8000 because the picture was dull/dark. After 5 minutes with the Samsung, it was clear that I would gladly sacrifice slightly deeper black levels for a brighter, more vibrant picture.
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