Official Samsung PNXXE7000 - PNXXE8000 owners thread - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 4343 Old 08-20-2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by makinbiscuits View Post

quick question from a strictly picture quality standpoint is their any major PQ improvement from a pn60e7000 vs. a pn60e6500?
The 3 top Samsung E6500/7000/8000 have a close to identical picture performance. The exception being the strictly hardware a dual core processor for internet performance, but most comparisons have shown close performance. I have been able to try all 3 and would say if you are a gamer and enjoy 3D at all then I would spend the additional $150-$200 for the E7000. I noticed it's overall motion/lag performance in gaming is pretty great and 3D seems to be a better experience over the 6500.
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post #2342 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 01:41 AM
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Hi there one more question,would u know if the pne7000 will use a different evolution kit than the e8000? Or will the kit be the same for both
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post #2343 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 05:57 AM
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Hi there one more question,would u know if the pne7000 will use a different evolution kit than the e8000? Or will the kit be the same for both
There is very little info in regards to exactly what the evolution kit will do, only the promise of future expand-ability. I would assume they are the same, since the only thing the 7000 lacks is the camera and voice controls.
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post #2344 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 06:04 AM
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I set up my bias light over the weekend for my E7000, just a simple desk lamp and GE 6500k (daylight) bulb. If anyone is wanting to get the best performance out of there set-up I can't recommend a bias light enough. In the case of the E7000 it seems to help with black level performance. It may be an illusion, but it seems as though with the light black level are a are few shades darker than without. Does anyone have any knowledge of the benefits of a bias light?
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post #2345 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post

I set up my bias light over the weekend for my E7000, just a simple desk lamp and GE 6500k (daylight) bulb. If anyone is wanting to get the best performance out of there set-up I can't recommend a bias light enough. In the case of the E7000 it seems to help with black level performance. It may be an illusion, but it seems as though with the light black level are a are few shades darker than without. Does anyone have any knowledge of the benefits of a bias light?

I don't have bias lighting knowledge, but I prefer watching my set in a lit room rather than completely dark. Blacks just look better.
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post #2346 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 08:09 AM
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Here is a good article on it showing the DIY approach.

http://biaslighting.blogspot.ca/

The author references one article at the bottom: http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm and from that page you can find links on the same site to ready-made solutions.
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post #2347 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein View Post

There is very little info in regards to exactly what the evolution kit will do, only the promise of future expand-ability. I would assume they are the same, since the only thing the 7000 lacks is the camera and voice controls.

Internally the 7000 may have different electronics such as the video processor which I believe was the case in the D series. Haven't come across anything conclusive though.
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post #2348 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 09:39 AM
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Got my PN64E7000 and set it up. At first I was impressed. Better colors, way better blacks, and way more detail in everything than my 52" CCFL LCD (comparing with a high quality HDMI splitter). Then I noticed the HORRIBLE judder. Insane levels of judder in my video games, and insane levels of judder in my 24p BluRays even with CinemaSmooth on in Movie mode and confirmed 24p source. In fact, CinemaSmooth seems to do almost nothing when turned for movies? How do I confirm the TV is running in 96Hz for 24p movies, maybe that will help? With Auto Motion Plus 120Hz set to LOW on my old TV, the judder totally goes away in 24p movies, and is dramatically reduced in games. But nothing seems to help the plasma! Literally everything has a flickering ghost image before and after the object itself that vibrates quickly back and forth if I am turning in a game, or if a movie is panning quickly. How can you guys live with this? I'll take SOE any day over this. The same silky smooth pan scene on my LCD is a mess on the plasma next to it. Very easy to notice when both screens are running the same material (Night at the Museum BluRay) simultaneously.

I'm also displeased at the intense amount of ABL. I knew going in that this was a plasma limitation, but I didn't think it would be quite this bad. Impossible to get an all white screen. Best I can hope for is medium gray. Tested with Disney WOW. Compared to my old Samsung LCD running on an HDMI splitter right next to it, the difference is night and day. The LCD is brilliant white, the plasma is medium gray, even after I tried raising Cell Light, Brightness, Contrast etc. to MAX, or changing picture modes. Makes no difference because once ABL kicks in to clip the white intensity, that's it. It's not just annoying on white scenes. Gladiiator BluRay also has some bright partial sky shots. I calibrated so all other scenes look equally bright between both TVs (my LCD backlight is only HALF way up, btw, and the plasma Brightness is only on 50 in Movie mode), but when there's a big area of brightness like sky or sand, the ABL just kills it!

I do hear a slight buzz if I stand up a turn my ear towards TV, but seated I can't hear it.

And I do see the very subtle plasma flicker on bright areas of the same color, but I can't say its bad enough to bother me, I could get used to it.

I also have a minor issue of a purple splotch/strip running vertically down the screen about a third of the way from the left, but I only notice it bright blue skies or all white (it's not there on the LCD), but again not really a big deal.

So the two issues I was most worried about (buzz, flicker) are not a big deal, but the judder is the absolute deal breaker, with ABL running close behind. I did not expect to see any judder in 60Hz sources running 60FPS, because I thought plasma had so much faster response. I guess it does, because the image doesn't "blur", but wow that judder is bad! I think I will have to return it and exchange for an LED with insane amounts of motion interpolation, like the ES8000. frown.gif I've had Panny plasmas in the past, but I think my Samsung LCD with motion interpolation ruined me.
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post #2349 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:27 AM
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That's too bad. Have had nothing but silky smooth 1080/24p playback with cinema smooth on for native 1080/24p material. Never noticed any flicker. The only time I've seen judder is when I upscaled material to 1080/24p with my AVR. Really bad judder, but then again it wasn't native 1080/24p but upscaled. No reviews have mentioned this as an issue. Must be a bad display. Sorry for your luck.
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post #2350 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by swillis55 View Post

That's too bad. Have had nothing but silky smooth 1080/24p playback with cinema smooth on for native 1080/24p material. Never noticed any flicker. The only time I've seen judder is when I upscaled material to 1080/24p with my AVR. Really bad judder, but then again it wasn't native 1080/24p but upscaled. No reviews have mentioned this as an issue. Must be a bad display. Sorry for your luck.

I have to agree. i have had nothing but a great experience with 24p playback and cinema smooth. Silky Smooth. This tv is considered to have one of the best or at least a very good 24p mode. It is one of it's strengths.
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post #2351 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Got my PN64E7000 and set it up. At first I was impressed. Better colors, way better blacks, and way more detail in everything than my 52" CCFL LCD (comparing with a high quality HDMI splitter). Then I noticed the HORRIBLE judder. Insane levels of judder in my video games, and insane levels of judder in my 24p BluRays even with CinemaSmooth on in Movie mode and confirmed 24p source. In fact, CinemaSmooth seems to do almost nothing when turned for movies? How do I confirm the TV is running in 96Hz for 24p movies, maybe that will help? With Auto Motion Plus 120Hz set to LOW on my old TV, the judder totally goes away in 24p movies, and is dramatically reduced in games. But nothing seems to help the plasma! Literally everything has a flickering ghost image before and after the object itself that vibrates quickly back and forth if I am turning in a game, or if a movie is panning quickly. How can you guys live with this? I'll take SOE any day over this. The same silky smooth pan scene on my LCD is a mess on the plasma next to it. Very easy to notice when both screens are running the same material (Night at the Museum BluRay) simultaneously.
I'm also displeased at the intense amount of ABL. I knew going in that this was a plasma limitation, but I didn't think it would be quite this bad. Impossible to get an all white screen. Best I can hope for is medium gray. Tested with Disney WOW. Compared to my old Samsung LCD running on an HDMI splitter right next to it, the difference is night and day. The LCD is brilliant white, the plasma is medium gray, even after I tried raising Cell Light, Brightness, Contrast etc. to MAX, or changing picture modes. Makes no difference because once ABL kicks in to clip the white intensity, that's it. It's not just annoying on white scenes. Gladiiator BluRay also has some bright partial sky shots. I calibrated so all other scenes look equally bright between both TVs (my LCD backlight is only HALF way up, btw, and the plasma Brightness is only on 50 in Movie mode), but when there's a big area of brightness like sky or sand, the ABL just kills it!
I do hear a slight buzz if I stand up a turn my ear towards TV, but seated I can't hear it.
And I do see the very subtle plasma flicker on bright areas of the same color, but I can't say its bad enough to bother me, I could get used to it.
I also have a minor issue of a purple splotch/strip running vertically down the screen about a third of the way from the left, but I only notice it bright blue skies or all white (it's not there on the LCD), but again not really a big deal.
So the two issues I was most worried about (buzz, flicker) are not a big deal, but the judder is the absolute deal breaker, with ABL running close behind. I did not expect to see any judder in 60Hz sources running 60FPS, because I thought plasma had so much faster response. I guess it does, because the image doesn't "blur", but wow that judder is bad! I think I will have to return it and exchange for an LED with insane amounts of motion interpolation, like the ES8000. frown.gif I've had Panny plasmas in the past, but I think my Samsung LCD with motion interpolation ruined me.

Why would you want an all white screen when watching tv anyway? Also I almost didn't purchase this tv because of the complaints of the ABL and brightness pops and I have had this tv for about 2 weeks and watched a lot of movies and I have not even noticed it once. I am coming from a Sony 46NX810 so if it was bad I think I would notice it. Also the whites aren't bad at all on this tv and it gets plenty bright.
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post #2352 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:34 AM
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OK, clearly I will have to do more testing and maybe get rid of the splitter and get rid of my receiver. How do I know if the TV is doing 96Hz mode?

And its not flicker I'm seeing on movies, but judder. As if the Cinema Smooth isn't really working.

And yes, the whites are fabulous.... when they are taking up 1/4 of the screen or less. And yes, the TV does get plenty bright.. as bright as my LCD, when there are many colors on screen, constantly changing. Any sky shots or solid colors and ABL goes to town.
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post #2353 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:46 AM
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OK, clearly I will have to do more testing and maybe get rid of the splitter. How do I know if the TV is doing 96Hz mode?
And its not flicker I'm seeing on movies, but judder. As if the Cinema Smooth isn't really working.
And yes, the whites are fabulous.... when they are taking up 1/4 of the screen or less.

I'm not sure how to tell. My blu ray player will tell me when I hit info what mode I am in. I'm telling you every one of the reviews on these tv's said the 24p mode was very good and cinema smooth worked well and didn't raise black levels like last year. I have also had a nice experience with it. This tv's video processing is really good. All my cable channels look really good. HBO can look like a blu ray at times. I was worried because 60 inches sounded big but I sit close and it still loooks good.

The only issue I have is the detail in dark scenes, but maybe I need a calibration. I also do have a pretty loud buzz that seems to come from the middle of the screen. I may have to return it because it annoys me. I would almost consider dealing with it because this tv is so nice. Coming from a 46 inch it's amazing. Some really nice blu rays I sit there with my jaw open the whole time because it really is incredible at times. I now know what people mean by the wow factor.

Still since it's buzzing I have been thinking of switching to the vt50 but I really love this tv. I work from home and my desk is close to the tv and the buzzing is really annoying.

I have to decide what to do but luckily I bought from Best Buy so I can return easy.

Also I fell asleep with the Netflix menu on and I didn't even have much IR at all and it went away immediately once I changed the channel.
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post #2354 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:48 AM
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OK, clearly I will have to do more testing and maybe get rid of the splitter and get rid of my receiver. How do I know if the TV is doing 96Hz mode?
And its not flicker I'm seeing on movies, but judder. As if the Cinema Smooth isn't really working.
And yes, the whites are fabulous.... when they are taking up 1/4 of the screen or less. And yes, the TV does get plenty bright.. as bright as my LCD, when there are many colors on screen, constantly changing. Any sky shots or solid colors and ABL goes to town.

I'm not saying your not seeing judder but I bet it would be even worse on another plasma. Maybe you are really sensitive to it.
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post #2355 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:53 AM
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I'm not saying your not seeing judder but I bet it would be even worse on another plasma. Maybe you are really sensitive to it.

Possibly. My brain might have gotten to the point (after 4 years of non-stop motion interpolation) where it sees SOE as normal, and any lack of SOE as judder. So is the 96Hz mode automatic?
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post #2356 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 12:12 PM
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Possibly. My brain might have gotten to the point (after 4 years of non-stop motion interpolation) where it sees SOE as normal, and any lack of SOE as judder. So is the 96Hz mode automatic?

Well you have to enable cinema smooth in the advanced options on the tv and make sure your player or Blu ray device is capable and set to output 24p. Then it should automatically engage.
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post #2357 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 01:00 PM
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Flavius
Never herd of anyone buying a new 64" plasma who wants SOE.
That's so out of left field it's hard to find words.
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post #2358 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 02:43 PM
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Internally the 7000 may have different electronics such as the video processor which I believe was the case in the D series. Haven't come across anything conclusive though.
Me neither, but I haven't found on their site or in review what those differences may be.
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post #2359 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Got my PN64E7000 and set it up. At first I was impressed. Better colors, way better blacks, and way more detail in everything than my 52" CCFL LCD (comparing with a high quality HDMI splitter). Then I noticed the HORRIBLE judder. Insane levels of judder in my video games, and insane levels of judder in my 24p BluRays even with CinemaSmooth on in Movie mode and confirmed 24p source. In fact, CinemaSmooth seems to do almost nothing when turned for movies? How do I confirm the TV is running in 96Hz for 24p movies, maybe that will help? With Auto Motion Plus 120Hz set to LOW on my old TV, the judder totally goes away in 24p movies, and is dramatically reduced in games. But nothing seems to help the plasma! Literally everything has a flickering ghost image before and after the object itself that vibrates quickly back and forth if I am turning in a game, or if a movie is panning quickly. How can you guys live with this? I'll take SOE any day over this. The same silky smooth pan scene on my LCD is a mess on the plasma next to it. Very easy to notice when both screens are running the same material (Night at the Museum BluRay) simultaneously.
I'm also displeased at the intense amount of ABL. I knew going in that this was a plasma limitation, but I didn't think it would be quite this bad. Impossible to get an all white screen. Best I can hope for is medium gray. Tested with Disney WOW. Compared to my old Samsung LCD running on an HDMI splitter right next to it, the difference is night and day. The LCD is brilliant white, the plasma is medium gray, even after I tried raising Cell Light, Brightness, Contrast etc. to MAX, or changing picture modes. Makes no difference because once ABL kicks in to clip the white intensity, that's it. It's not just annoying on white scenes. Gladiiator BluRay also has some bright partial sky shots. I calibrated so all other scenes look equally bright between both TVs (my LCD backlight is only HALF way up, btw, and the plasma Brightness is only on 50 in Movie mode), but when there's a big area of brightness like sky or sand, the ABL just kills it!
I do hear a slight buzz if I stand up a turn my ear towards TV, but seated I can't hear it.
And I do see the very subtle plasma flicker on bright areas of the same color, but I can't say its bad enough to bother me, I could get used to it.
I also have a minor issue of a purple splotch/strip running vertically down the screen about a third of the way from the left, but I only notice it bright blue skies or all white (it's not there on the LCD), but again not really a big deal.
So the two issues I was most worried about (buzz, flicker) are not a big deal, but the judder is the absolute deal breaker, with ABL running close behind. I did not expect to see any judder in 60Hz sources running 60FPS, because I thought plasma had so much faster response. I guess it does, because the image doesn't "blur", but wow that judder is bad! I think I will have to return it and exchange for an LED with insane amounts of motion interpolation, like the ES8000. frown.gif I've had Panny plasmas in the past, but I think my Samsung LCD with motion interpolation ruined me.
Sorry to hear that you aren't enjoying your 7000. There will always be judder on plasma displays during gaming session, so long as developers continue with 30HZ (30 fps) instead of 60HZ (60 fps). The 600hz sub-field drive is suppose to help with motion smoothness in film and sporting event, but does little for gaming. Because the sub-field drive employs frame insertion at 60HZ at 10 times=600HZ, but because games are 30HZ the frame insertion causes a intense judder while panning in game camera. The Samsung plasma have some of the best gaming performance as far as plasma are concerned, I have had both the ST30 and ST50 Panasonic plasma and feel the Sammy is the better of the three. If you own Id software's RAGE give it a shot and see the difference with a 60fps gaming experience vs. 30fps, it is silky smooth almost like SOE it was quite jarring the first time I played it.
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post #2360 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 05:42 PM
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Sorry to hear that you aren't enjoying your 7000. There will always be judder on plasma displays during gaming session, so long as developers continue with 30HZ (30 fps) instead of 60HZ (60 fps). The 600hz sub-field drive is suppose to help with motion smoothness in film and sporting event, but does little for gaming. Because the sub-field drive employs frame insertion at 60HZ at 10 times=600HZ, but because games are 30HZ the frame insertion causes a intense judder while panning in game camera. The Samsung plasma have some of the best gaming performance as far as plasma are concerned, I have had both the ST30 and ST50 Panasonic plasma and feel the Sammy is the better of the three. If you own Id software's RAGE give it a shot and see the difference with a 60fps gaming experience vs. 30fps, it is silky smooth almost like SOE it was quite jarring the first time I played it.

I do have Rage. VERY good idea. Will try that. And very good explanation. But if you knew that "Because the sub-field drive employs frame insertion at 60HZ at 10 times=600HZ, but because games are 30HZ the frame insertion causes a intense judder while panning in game camera." then why were you not screaming it on every forum and page to warn poor dumb saps like me? tongue.gif The judder is so bad, I'm not sure I can stand it. Luckily Crutchfield is allowing me to exchange it for a 65ES8000 which as far I can tell is the best TV out there for judder reduction and motion smoothing, with independent controls for judder and blur reduction.

I am trying hard to keep it because I do feel its an amazing set, but probably not for my purposes. Panning was so bad I literally started to feel ill.
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post #2361 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 06:24 PM
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I do have Rage. VERY good idea. Will try that. And very good explanation. But if you knew that "Because the sub-field drive employs frame insertion at 60HZ at 10 times=600HZ, but because games are 30HZ the frame insertion causes a intense judder while panning in game camera." then why were you not screaming it on every forum and page to warn poor dumb saps like me? tongue.gif The judder is so bad, I'm not sure I can stand it. Luckily Crutchfield is allowing me to exchange it for a 65ES8000 which as far I can tell is the best TV out there for judder reduction and motion smoothing, with independent controls for judder and blur reduction.
I am trying hard to keep it because I do feel its an amazing set, but probably not for my purposes. Panning was so bad I literally started to feel ill.

Luckily I just built a gaming pc which I can run my games at 120hz on my 120 hz montior and 60hz on these tv's. If you are a serious gamer you should look into it. Consoles can't compare to pc's right now. You could build a very cheap one.
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post #2362 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 06:45 PM
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Oh man, Shank... you were totally right. Rage has ZERO judder on this TV, and I mean none. But this TV will be used 80% for 360/PS3 gaming and 20% for BluRay, with a tiny bit of TV. I am not about to throw away my 500+ game collection because it has now become unviewable due to the judder. frown.gif So I guess its back to LCDs and motion smoothing for me. rolleyes.gif

Now I'd also like to find out why my CinemaSmooth is malfunctioning. Probably again lack of SOE. I did not realize I was SO LCD conditioned now. I mean I had Panny plasmas for 4 years, then an LCD for 4 years. I thought I could go back and there would be no judder because of the "fast plasma response". And I don't mean lag, I mean the fast pixel response. But I was DEAD WRONG. Fast plasma response only affects blurring, not judder. WHY DID I NOT READ THIS ANYWHERE IN MY MONTHS OF TV RESEARCH?! I even watched every video in 2012 Value Electronics shootout, that's how crazy I got.
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Luckily I just built a gaming pc which I can run my games at 120hz on my 120 hz montior and 60hz on these tv's. If you are a serious gamer you should look into it. Consoles can't compare to pc's right now. You could build a very cheap one.

Oh yes, I used to be a PC only gamer, but then I somehow ended up switching and getting addicted to those blasted achievements/trophies. But no one had told me that 30FPS + Plasma = BAD. mad.gif I still don't understand why I never though it was a problem back in 2007 when I had plasmas and still used 30 FPS titles on the 360.
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I do have Rage. VERY good idea. Will try that. And very good explanation. But if you knew that "Because the sub-field drive employs frame insertion at 60HZ at 10 times=600HZ, but because games are 30HZ the frame insertion causes a intense judder while panning in game camera." then why were you not screaming it on every forum and page to warn poor dumb saps like me? tongue.gif The judder is so bad, I'm not sure I can stand it. Luckily Crutchfield is allowing me to exchange it for a 65ES8000 which as far I can tell is the best TV out there for judder reduction and motion smoothing, with independent controls for judder and blur reduction.
I am trying hard to keep it because I do feel its an amazing set, but probably not for my purposes. Panning was so bad I literally started to feel ill.
I think the ES8000 is far better fit for you, but watch using the interpolation or auto motion plus feature on gaming. While it will add smoothing to your panning shot it may very well add an incredible amount of lag. The newer Samsung LED's especially once you hit the ES8000 will add an LED dimming feature for improved black levels as well as a scanning backlight which improve motion performance on the set without adding interpolation and lag.
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post #2365 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 09:47 PM
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I think the ES8000 is far better fit for you, but watch using the interpolation or auto motion plus feature on gaming. While it will add smoothing to your panning shot it may very well add an incredible amount of lag. The newer Samsung LED's especially once you hit the ES8000 will add an LED dimming feature for improved black levels as well as a scanning backlight which improve motion performance on the set without adding interpolation and lag.

I've always been more interested in motion quality over lag since I tend to play adventure/RPG/racing much more than FPS or online. I just thought I could get both with a plasma. If all games were 60FPS (or I used my PC for TV gaming) I'd keep the plasma for sure, as the there almost NO blur whatsoever AND no judder.. AND less lag. But I have way too much invested in 30FPS limited content (more than any healthy person should), on which the lack of blur is meaningless when I'm seeing the judder's double image/stuttering all the time. The judder is there on the old 120Hz LCD I have, but the AutoMotionPlus on low makes it almost a non-issue, compared to something literally nausea inducing. Even with AutoMotion off, something about the LCD makes it a softer/more blurred effect, rather than the very stark and vivid flashing double images. I almost wish I had gone with Panny plasma now since they were supposed to have a smooth motion mode for 60Hz, but the Pannys had other problems.

That's the main issue, but the ABL is also killing it for me a bit. I got too used to the bright clean whites. What's the point of an impressive contrast ratio when a bright sky shot looks dull and lifeless? Yes, it's a problem in real content, I compared this side by side on the LCD and plasma during Gladiator.

So I have to go back to screen clouding and flashlighting land and leave you all to enjoy your otherwise excellent Sammy plasmas with their rich blacks. Oh well, one day we'll all be running third generation OLED anyway.
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post #2366 of 4343 Old 08-21-2012, 10:48 PM
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Now I'd also like to find out why my CinemaSmooth is malfunctioning. Probably again lack of SOE. I did not realize I was SO LCD conditioned now. I mean I had Panny plasmas for 4 years, then an LCD for 4 years. I thought I could go back and there would be no judder because of the "fast plasma response". And I don't mean lag, I mean the fast pixel response. But I was DEAD WRONG. Fast plasma response only affects blurring, not judder. WHY DID I NOT READ THIS ANYWHERE IN MY MONTHS OF TV RESEARCH?! I even watched every video in 2012 Value Electronics shootout, that's how crazy I got.

I don't think Cinema Smooth is malfunctioning - it's just not doing what you expect it to do. CS removes telecine judder, which is the uneven movement that comes from converting 24 into 60 - it's most noticeable during very slow pans on films - CS makes these pans smooth. Telecine judder does not exist in non film materials.

The judder you're noticing is probably due to the insufficient number of actual frames being present in the source material, 24 for Blu-ray, and 30 for games. Without SOE/frame interpolation and creating those extra frames, there will always be judder. It may be something you just have to get used to. For movies at least, just tell yourself that you're seeing it the way the director intended (and the way the cinema presentation works), without some computer algorithm making up non existent frames.
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post #2367 of 4343 Old 08-22-2012, 04:19 AM
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Anyone know if the e8000 has the mjc/motion judder canceler like the 2010 plasmas,or did samsung removed that feature completely? My e7000 dosent have it
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post #2368 of 4343 Old 08-22-2012, 05:22 AM
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I've always been more interested in motion quality over lag since I tend to play adventure/RPG/racing much more than FPS or online. I just thought I could get both with a plasma. If all games were 60FPS (or I used my PC for TV gaming) I'd keep the plasma for sure, as the there almost NO blur whatsoever AND no judder.. AND less lag. But I have way too much invested in 30FPS limited content (more than any healthy person should), on which the lack of blur is meaningless when I'm seeing the judder's double image/stuttering all the time. The judder is there on the old 120Hz LCD I have, but the AutoMotionPlus on low makes it almost a non-issue, compared to something literally nausea inducing. Even with AutoMotion off, something about the LCD makes it a softer/more blurred effect, rather than the very stark and vivid flashing double images. I almost wish I had gone with Panny plasma now since they were supposed to have a smooth motion mode for 60Hz, but the Pannys had other problems.
That's the main issue, but the ABL is also killing it for me a bit. I got too used to the bright clean whites. What's the point of an impressive contrast ratio when a bright sky shot looks dull and lifeless? Yes, it's a problem in real content, I compared this side by side on the LCD and plasma during Gladiator.
So I have to go back to screen clouding and flashlighting land and leave you all to enjoy your otherwise excellent Sammy plasmas with their rich blacks. Oh well, one day we'll all be running third generation OLED anyway.
Even with the smooth motion on you will still have judder on 30fps content on the Panasonic. If you have on low it will smooth panning a little bit, but once you hit the mid-high smoothing the camera pans are smoother adding pretty noticeable artifacting as well. You will have a shimmering aura around your avatar and will begin to introduce minor screen tearing.
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post #2369 of 4343 Old 08-22-2012, 12:38 PM
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Even with the smooth motion on you will still have judder on 30fps content on the Panasonic. If you have on low it will smooth panning a little bit, but once you hit the mid-high smoothing the camera pans are smoother adding pretty noticeable artifacting as well. You will have a shimmering aura around your avatar and will begin to introduce minor screen tearing.

Thanks for the information. I do notice the shimmering avatar aura when I have AutoMotionPlus turned on on my old TV. But it is so much more preferable to the judder I saw on this TV. Your statement tells me the motion smoothing mode on the Panny probably isn't as good as that on the latest Samsung high end LED.

@Cev214: The motion judder canceler was supposedly REMOVED after the 2010 C series plasmas. If my new TV had it, I think I'd be very happy. There is a post earlier in this thread about someone complaining how Skyrim had bad judder on the newer Sammy plasmas and no feature to help it as the C model plasmas had. I wish I had believed that guy's post. But I was totally led to believe by others that plasma was the best for motion handling. No, its not. It is best for blur reduction, and 60FPS. For anything less, you will be in judder HELL and will regret not having a motion interpolation/smoothing feature, lag be damned.
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post #2370 of 4343 Old 08-22-2012, 12:55 PM
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Thanks for the information. I do notice the shimmering avatar aura when I have AutoMotionPlus turned on on my old TV. But it is so much more preferable to the judder I saw on this TV. Your statement tells me the motion smoothing mode on the Panny probably isn't as good as that on the latest Samsung high end LED.
@Cev214: The motion judder canceler was supposedly REMOVED after the 2010 C series plasmas. If my new TV had it, I think I'd be very happy. There is a post earlier in this thread about someone complaining how Skyrim had bad judder on the newer Sammy plasmas and no feature to help it as the C model plasmas had. I wish I had believed that guy's post. But I was totally led to believe by others that plasma was the best for motion handling. No, its not. It is best for blur reduction, and 60FPS. For anything less, you will be in judder HELL and will regret not having a motion interpolation/smoothing feature, lag be damned.

Have a look at these two reviews of the E6500 and the E8000. It *appears* that the E8000 - I don't know about the E7000 - has it: " Dejudder (smooth) processing Yes" whereas the E6500 does not: "Dejudder (smooth) processing No"

Here are the respective reviews:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn60e8000/4505-6482_7-35118281.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-pn60e6500/4505-6482_7-35159642.html
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