Are LG plasmas even 'in the running'? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 03:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty new to this and I've noticed there isn't alot of talk or even mentioning of LG's plasmas, is it because they aren't quite as good as the panasonic or samsung plasmas? What's the scoop

"I'd only recommend a plasma over an LCD if you watch movies, tv shows or play videogames"
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post #2 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 05:37 AM
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Poor black levels and IR concerns hold them back imo.

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post #3 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 06:01 AM
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here we go again with AVS forums FUD.

I think the LG owners are tired of having to defend their plasmas. There are threads on how to improve black levels and I can tell you IR is absolutely not a concern at all. I don't even know where that FUD comes from and AVS is full of FUD for so many things (receivers, plasmas etc.).

I can tell you this about LG, yes the black levels could be better (and they are once you open up the panel to do the pot tweaks), but the color reproduction is right up there with Panny's and Samsungs. I much prefer my LG's colors to my aunt's Panny GT30...AND SO DOES SHE. She is getting it professionally calibrated soon we I'll compare after that as well.

As for IR, after the POT tweak specifically, IR is virtually completely eliminated. I never had a problem with it before and now it's not even on my mind.

Anyway, I would say that the biggest mistake you can make is reading forums to make a decision on what to purchase. People still think burn-in is an issue with plasmas today just because it was an issue years and years ago. So FUD takes forever to clear up. Now that LG FUD has been spread everywhere it will take years to clear that up. Just like "American cars suck!!!" BS that we all know is no longer true (and quiet the opposite today actually).

Sorry for the rant but I'm one of the tired LG owners. Every single person (videophile and not) that has seen my "OMG STFU LG SUX LOL!!!!11!!!" plasma has been blown away.

On a side note, every brand has its problems anyway. LG is black levels (before the pot tweaks).
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post #4 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsys View Post

here we go again with AVS forums FUD.

I think the LG owners are tired of having to defend their plasmas. There are threads on how to improve black levels and I can tell you IR is absolutely not a concern at all. I don't even know where that FUD comes from and AVS is full of FUD for so many things (receivers, plasmas etc.).

I can tell you this about LG, yes the black levels could be better (and they are once you open up the panel to do the pot tweaks), but the color reproduction is right up there with Panny's and Samsungs. I much prefer my LG's colors to my aunt's Panny GT30...AND SO DOES SHE. She is getting it professionally calibrated soon we I'll compare after that as well.

As for IR, after the POT tweak specifically, IR is virtually completely eliminated. I never had a problem with it before and now it's not even on my mind.

Anyway, I would say that the biggest mistake you can make is reading forums to make a decision on what to purchase. People still think burn-in is an issue with plasmas today just because it was an issue years and years ago. So FUD takes forever to clear up. Now that LG FUD has been spread everywhere it will take years to clear that up. Just like "American cars suck!!!" BS that we all know is no longer true (and quiet the opposite today actually).

Sorry for the rant but I'm one of the tired LG owners. Every single person (videophile and not) that has seen my "OMG STFU LG SUX LOL!!!!11!!!" plasma has been blown away.

On a side note, every brand has its problems anyway. LG is black levels (before the pot tweaks).

The one thing LG had easily over the others was value for the price. It was easily the best value last year.

The tweaks work wonders, but they need to be readjusted every so often (im at 6 months tweaked and need to adjust again). I shouldn't have to open up my panel to get acceptable black level performance. This is a huge con with the LG, which is made a bit better by its excellent color reproduction. 3D also has a few issues.

If the new LG and ST50 60" have equal performance, the one with the better price will win my upgrade.
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post #5 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 07:43 AM
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I'm getting my son one this weekend. 50pz950 for 849.00 shipped......black levels can be off somewhat for that coin. The TV is exactly what people say they are great values for the coin spent.
It's a mid level entrant and value wise....it's a no brainer. Depends on what your standards are of course.
That set retails for 1399.00 most outlets are north of 1000.00. So 849.00 ......hard to knock 'em.......

Could you PM me the details on tweaking black levels? thanks.....
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post #6 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaosv1 View Post

I'm getting my son one this weekend. 50pz950 for 849.00 shipped......black levels can be off somewhat for that coin. The TV is exactly what people say they are great values for the coin spent.
It's a mid level entrant and value wise....it's a no brainer. Depends on what your standards are of course.
That set retails for 1399.00 most outlets are north of 1000.00. So 849.00 ......hard to knock 'em.......

Could you PM me the details on tweaking black levels? thanks.....

There is a huge thread on it called "lg tweak for better blacks"

The 50pz950 is no longer the best value. Beach Camera had the Samsung Samsung PN51D6500 for $799 a few days ago, and it is a better tv. My friend picked it up and it beats out the pz950 in PQ. If the price goes back to that, even though I own the 950 I would recommend the Samsung. It's a very, very good value for the price.
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post #7 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emmsys View Post

here we go again with AVS forums FUD.

I think the LG owners are tired of having to defend their plasmas. .........

............Sorry for the rant but I'm one of the tired LG owners. Every single person (videophile and not) that has seen my "OMG STFU LG SUX LOL!!!!11!!!" plasma has been blown away.

On a side note, every brand has its problems anyway. LG is black levels (before the pot tweaks).

Hi emmsys

Have to agree 100%, especially with regards to color.

Just quote cnet
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...tml?tag=subnav
"The flagship LG PZ950 series we reviewed last year trailed plasma heavyweights Panasonic and Samsung badly in this department, with grayish blacks that prevented it from scoring well in our evaluations. For 2012 an LG company rep tells CNET that the new models, thanks to upgraded phosphors and other improvements, boast black levels up to 40 percent deeper than last year's. If that's true, maybe LG with its historically excellent color accuracy will finally break into contention with the other two."

We've proven that they are capable of competing black levels (MLL)and the eradication of IR with the tweaks, but of coarse the average consumer should not be asked to disassemble their sets to do so.
I really hope they've listened and give the competition a run for their money this year.

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post #8 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Poor black levels and IR concerns hold them back imo.

No offense intended, for me personally having to crack open the panel to optomize black levels is something no consumer should have to do. Yes both Samsungs and Pannys have their own issues.

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post #9 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 08:22 AM
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Can LGs produce nice images: Yes
Are they as good as Panasonic and Samsung: No

And with double or triple the defect rate of Panasonic, you'd have to be a heck of a lot cheaper than Panasonic to be a "value" set.

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post #10 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

No offense intended, for me personally having to crack open the panel to optomize black levels is something no consumer should have to do. Yes both Samsungs and Pannys have their own issues.

Hi chunon

Have to agree on that one to.

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post #11 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 09:17 AM
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It's true that no owner should have to open the back of their set to get a better image. However, if owners could have opened their Samsung or Panasonic to fix the problems they had last year they would have, especially considering that not all sets are being fixed/not all owners are receiving the updates by some manufacturers.

Also, consider the tools that are available on LGs including the Wizard that can come pretty darn close to getting a near perfect image that suits the individual owner. Furthermore, acceptable depth of black is an individual choice otherwise LCDs wouldn't be so popular that Panasonic has now put both feet in the water.

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post #12 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

And with double or triple the defect rate of Panasonic, you'd have to be a heck of a lot cheaper than Panasonic to be a "value" set.

Where did you get that LG has a triple defect rate? And what sort of defects are you talking about?

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post #13 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Are they as good as Panasonic and Samsung: No

And with double or triple the defect rate of Panasonic, you'd have to be a heck of a lot cheaper than Panasonic to be a "value" set.

Cannot heartily agree with that one, the fact is that all three are manufacturers of low-end consumer electronics. At least Pioneer took the effort to produce some higher end stuff and can be seen by the fact that none of the current plasmas makers have offered the same level of picture quality, at least with regards to black levels to the better Kuros, even after three years.
Sorry I do not have actual statistics, but by going from what's been written on these forums any problems encountered from LG (ignoring lower blacks or IR) appear to be one offs, as apposed to where a full line suffer from a common problem, be it floating blacks, green blobs, green tint, peeling filters etc and to me that is unacceptable.
IMHO LG has consistently produced panels of excellent color year after year, and in general satisfactory black levels just not the best, but I still honestly believe given the current choices available they offer the best quality buck for buck.

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post #14 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William_D View Post

I'm pretty new to this and I've noticed there isn't alot of talk or even mentioning of LG's plasmas, is it because they aren't quite as good as the panasonic or samsung plasmas? What's the scoop

Hi William

Getting back to your original inquiry, if your considering the models for 2012 it's almost impossible to answer at this point in time.
With regards to picture quality only you can make that decision, in 2011 LG did fall short on producing a competitive MLL for their flagship models (hopefully resolved for this year), but their color and gray scale are up there with the best, but without side by side comparisons I would say all three produce more than acceptable picture quality and similar reliability, your choice.

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post #15 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 11:02 AM
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I like lg's picture quality but the main issue they have is their bad input lag for gaming, if they can reduce this and reduce ir I would get one.
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post #16 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 11:19 AM
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Black levels are most people's number one concern, and LG trails the competition in this regard. Contrast is the most important element to PQ, followed by color (accuracy, luminance, or the amount of color). LG does have some of the best color reproduction thanks to the fact that they have extensive color and white balance controls on most models. With that said, Samsung also has excellent color and Panasonic is good in this regard with the 50 series as well.

Regarding image retention, they do generally seem worse in this area as well. Being an owner of an LG plasma (bedroom TV), I can say that I don't have any IR issues myself.

I will say that LG offers great value and good performance for the price.
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post #17 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 12:35 PM
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At the shootout the LG had the worst mll, ir and lag of the bunch(sry, not fud). How's the AR filter? They say it is a bit on the glossy side. Still they make a really good tv and I would recommend it above another brand. The 2012 appearance is nice, I'd like to see how they perform.
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post #18 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 12:37 PM
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Yeah, the glare is what will put LG out of the running for me this year.

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post #19 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Yeah, the glare is what will put LG out of the running for me this year.

I thought it was inferior picture quality and black levels I wouldn't take an LG tv if it was given to me.
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post #20 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

There is a huge thread on it called "lg tweak for better blacks"

The 50pz950 is no longer the best value. Beach Camera had the Samsung Samsung PN51D6500 for $799 a few days ago, and it is a better tv. My friend picked it up and it beats out the pz950 in PQ. If the price goes back to that, even though I own the 950 I would recommend the Samsung. It's a very, very good value for the price.

+1. And even if it doesn't, I've found the 6500 for 960 with an extended warranty and free glasses.
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post #21 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Can LGs produce nice images: Yes
Are they as good as Panasonic and Samsung: No

And with double or triple the defect rate of Panasonic, you'd have to be a heck of a lot cheaper than Panasonic to be a "value" set.

Can you prove that? Double or triple leads me to believe you are guessing.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've had issues with both , this TV is replacing a panny that spit the bit after three years of light use. 42" 85u....just out of warranty.
Samsung my mother got one that had to be replaced after a week....and three repair visits. LCD though.....

Cannot find that set for less than 950ish....how about this Sammy PN50C550

BTW , I own two Pioneer's 6020 and the 151. Both have seen a lot of hours and they are flawless.
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post #22 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

There is a huge thread on it called "lg tweak for better blacks"

The 50pz950 is no longer the best value. Beach Camera had the Samsung Samsung PN51D6500 for $799 a few days ago, and it is a better tv. My friend picked it up and it beats out the pz950 in PQ. If the price goes back to that, even though I own the 950 I would recommend the Samsung. It's a very, very good value for the price.

I found one on fatwallet for 789.00 , but the deal doesn't work. Figures.

Samsung PN50C550 know anything about this one. Found it for about 750ish.
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post #23 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 03:17 PM
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LGs have good value but the last thing a plasma should be weak with is blacks! It's like an LCD being too dim or whatever. Doesn't make sense. Having to do internal tweaks might be OK for some people but sounds like a lot of messing around to get acceptable blacks. I dunno.

I'm sure they are fine for some users and that's all that matters.
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post #24 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2mikey View Post

LGs have good value but the last thing a plasma should be weak with is blacks! It's like an LCD being too dim or whatever. Doesn't make sense. Having to do internal tweaks might be OK for some people but sounds like a lot of messing around to get acceptable blacks. I dunno.

I'm sure they are fine for some users and that's all that matters.

There are notable advantages to plasma other than deep blacks-- but generally I agree with this and I believe it's the real reason you don't see too many discussions about LG here (it's also the reason Panasonic gets a pass on so much of their BS).

Take away the black level argument and LG's case gets a whole lot stronger. Their panel designs are on par with Samsung and way ahead of Panasonic (Panasonic has cornered the market on ugly bezels). They have a fantastic reputation for color accuracy thanks in no small part to some of the best and most comprehensive user-controls in the business. They are priced competitively and they never skimp on features!

Sure, they have a reputation for producing panels with worse IR but, then again, the most recent Panasonic sets haven't been garnering much praise in that department either. I really don't buy the reliability argument as I'd never seen any number that placed them farther than a percentage point behind-- anything can fail if you're lucky!

But bottom line, the avs crowd (myself included) are suckers for a deep black... Yep. Doesn't matter how well she can bake as long as she looks good in a mini-skirt! Dumb isn't it?

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post #25 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 04:05 PM
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I'm not sure how accurate it is but obviously they have a decent rep now as reliable. This was Dec 2011.....so not so long ago. Interesting read. Obviously not double or triple repair history.

Sammy has some issues too. Certainly ....


http://www.pcworld.com/article/24456...d_to_beat.html
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post #26 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 04:31 PM
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The LG plasmas I've seen at Frys are noticeably weaker at displaying black than the Panasonics.

Even the Samsungs looked better.

Maybe it was a settings issue on this store display, I don't know...
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post #27 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 06:30 PM
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I have both a panny and a lg plasma,my panny black levels now are awful grey,there is not tweak that you can do to fix it, but with the lg I was able to tweaked and restore or even go further with black levels.

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post #28 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haroof View Post

The LG plasmas I've seen at Frys are noticeably weaker at displaying black than the Panasonics.

Even the Samsungs looked better.

Maybe it was a settings issue on this store display, I don't know...

The salesman at Fry's tried NOT to sell me an LG panel. They had the 50PZ950 on sale for $799. New in box. Was thinking about getting it. He said he would never personally purchase an LG plasma, he would only consider Samsung and Panasonic. Played around with all menu settings and picture modes on display model. Could not get it to look good. Changed my mind and did not get it. The newer lower end 2012 model, LG50PA6500 on display actually looked better, and they offered to sell it also for $799. For some reason, the lower to mid level LG plasmas seem to look better than the higher end versions. The PK550, PZ550, and PV450 have gotten more favorable reviews. And that PA6500 does seem to look good this year, although black levels may not be as good as the competition.
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post #29 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post

The salesman at Fry's tried NOT to sell me an LG panel. They had the 50PZ950 on sale for $799. New in box. Was thinking about getting it. He said he would never personally purchase an LG plasma, he would only consider Samsung and Panasonic. Played around with all menu settings and picture modes on display model. Could not get it to look good. Changed my mind and did not get it. The newer lower end 2012 model, LG50PA6500 on display actually looked better, and they offered to sell it also for $799. For some reason, the lower to mid level LG plasmas seem to look better than the higher end versions. The PK550, PZ550, and PV450 have gotten more favorable reviews. And that PA6500 does seem to look good this year, although black levels may not be as good as the competition.

Yep, that's what they all say, salesmen that is. They even do it with LCDs, or did if they don't anymore. And I have yet to speak with a salesman that even knew the benefits of an LG tv either. They don't tweak them and they usually put them in the worst spot in the store- unless they're just trying to get rid of them.

Last year's plasmas were bad, all of them, and LG's black where awful but most who bought the PZ950 loved them. Like I said earlier, people buy LCDs and LEDs with their poor blacks, flash lighting, clouding and light bleeds.

I have 2 LG LCDs, never had a reason to call customer service- one is a year old and the other is 5 years old. I also own a 42G25, bought it in December 2010, sight unseen, based on research. That TV is the reason why I now want a big plasma. If the review for PM6700 comes out with blacks in a decent range and low glare while on, then I'll have to go see it and the ST50 in person. I actually would prefer passive 3D.

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post #30 of 64 Old 03-21-2012, 07:26 PM
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All tv's have their problems. Samsung, Panasonic and Lgs! Go buy the one that looks best to you! Take your time!
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