Official Panasonic GT50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

Newbie to this forum! I am in a similar boat. This is my first plasma and got a P60GT50 last week. sometimes the image is too soft to the point where it appears that its slightly out of focus. There are other times in the same HD channel when the image looks very details and sharp and after few moment it turns soft. I have everything turned off. Tried some custom adjustments/THX mode but didn't seem to help. Initially I kept forcing inside me that this may be due to the first 100hrs or so breakin period but now that I have almost put 100+ hrs, I am kind of convinced that the softness is indeed there.

It will not look like an lcd. Lcd's do not look natural. To get my lcd to look close to natural back lighting and brightness had to be turned way down and ambient lighting is then required to get the blacks and contrast to look good. If you didn't do that to your lcds then you're use to a very unnatural image.

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There is another problem that I am noticing is the graininess of the image. I sit about 9.5 ft from the TV and still see lot of grains in the background most of the time. Coming from Sony XBR LCD, I am not too sure weather that's how it looks in plasma. I will make a trip to BB to see if I see similar grains but the image softness is what is preventing me from keeping the TV. In THX mode, the naturalness of the colors and the overall PQ (apart from softness) is the best I have seen in this price range.

Dithering. Try taking your brightness down a click at a time.

Note: There will always be a bit of dithering, depending on the source. How does the image look with blu-ray?

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post #1982 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

It will not look like an lcd. Lcd's do not look natural. To get my lcd to look close to natural back lighting and brightness had to be turned way down and ambient lighting is then required to get the blacks and contrast to look good. If you didn't do that to your lcds then you're use to a very unnatural image.

I did tune all the possible controls on the Sony to the extent possible where the image do look warm and natural but I certainly agree that LCDs are much smoother. I certainly don't want it to look like a soap/opera kind of things that are common with leds and that's was one of the primary reason why I choose plasma. What I wanted to know is if the graininess comes to a point where its clearly visible to the eyes and constantly draws attention, then is that normal with plasma ?
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Dithering. Try taking your brightness down a click at a time.
Note: There will always be a bit of dithering, depending on the source. How does the image look with blu-ray?

Most of the HD channels from Comcast HD dvr has this problem. I saw Avatar in bluray the other day and don't see as much (probably in the shadow areas sometime) as I see with the channels. Maybe the channels itself has lot of noise in it but I wasn't seeing it on lcd. I will try bringing down the brightness notch at a time and see if that improves. thanks for the help. Unfamiliar with the way plasma works, I wanted to know, before the return period expires, at least the tv is not defective in any way.
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post #1983 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

I did tune all the possible controls on the Sony to the extent possible where the image do look warm and natural but I certainly agree that LCDs are much smoother. I certainly don't want it to look like a soap/opera kind of things that are common with leds and that's was one of the primary reason why I choose plasma. What I wanted to know is if the graininess comes to a point where its clearly visible to the eyes and constantly draws attention, then is that normal with plasma ?
Most of the HD channels from Comcast HD dvr has this problem. I saw Avatar in bluray the other day and don't see as much (probably in the shadow areas sometime) as I see with the channels. Maybe the channels itself has lot of noise in it but I wasn't seeing it on lcd. I will try bringing down the brightness notch at a time and see if that improves. thanks for the help. Unfamiliar with the way plasma works, I wanted to know, before the return period expires, at least the tv is not defective in any way.

Given the right signal, the graininess would look like it does with the blu-ray. I don't think anyone provides that, close but not exactly that good. In other words, your programming doesn't look as good as the blu-ray then it is the fault of the source and not the tv. If you get your tv professionally calibrated (not Best Buy) then you can be assured that you've done all that you can to get the best picture your tv can produce. Until then, be certain that you are giving it the best possible signal- ensure that your stb is set to 1080i etc and that anything that is between the source and the tv is not doing any harm/or producing an even better signal. Also, 1.4 hdmi can help since it supports Deep Color.

I'm sure that you're also away that signals from all stations are not equal either and that SD programs broadcast in HD are not great either.

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post #1984 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

Newbie to this forum! I am in a similar boat. This is my first plasma and got a P60GT50 last week. sometimes the image is too soft to the point where it appears that its slightly out of focus. There are other times in the same HD channel when the image looks very details and sharp and after few moment it turns soft. I have everything turned off. Tried some custom adjustments/THX mode but didn't seem to help. Initially I kept forcing inside me that this may be due to the first 100hrs or so breakin period but now that I have almost put 100+ hrs, I am kind of convinced that the softness is indeed there.
There is another problem that I am noticing is the graininess of the image. I sit about 9.5 ft from the TV and still see lot of grains in the background most of the time. Coming from Sony XBR LCD, I am not too sure weather that's how it looks in plasma. I will make a trip to BB to see if I see similar grains but the image softness is what is preventing me from keeping the TV. In THX mode, the naturalness of the colors and the overall PQ (apart from softness) is the best I have seen in this price range.

I guess I'm not the only one feeling the image is a bit soft. However, my "LED" eyes are getting accustom to the natural look of the plasma. I believe good HD contents will look amazing (tried a few Blu-ray) but upconverted HD contents from FIOS HD channels does not look as sharp as LED. Some FIOS HD channels looks nice (news broadcast at the studio) but other upconverted HD looks grainy and soft.

For plasma, I don't like the fact that I need to watch out for static image (which is ok, dont have much chance to display static image for long), or widescreen movie (with black bar on top and bottom), or hours of video games with HUD. Extra careful needed with IR.

I'm still debating to keep this plasma or just go with 2012 Samsung 6 series LED.
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post #1985 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Given the right signal, the graininess would look like it does with the blu-ray. I don't think anyone provides that, close but not exactly that good. In other words, your programming doesn't look as good as the blu-ray then it is the fault of the source and not the tv. If you get your tv professionally calibrated (not Best Buy) then you can be assured that you've done all that you can to get the best picture your tv can produce. Until then, be certain that you are giving it the best possible signal- ensure that your stb is set to 1080i etc and that anything that is between the source and the tv is not doing any harm/or producing an even better signal. Also, 1.4 hdmi can help since it supports Deep Color.

Does all the hdmi inputs in Gt50 1.4v capable ? the manual doesn't say anything specific but it seems like only hdmi2 is ARC capable. Just curious since my hdmi2 is connected to the receiver and dvr is connected to hdmi1. I have tried hdmi3/4 but its all the same.
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I'm sure that you're also away that signals from all stations are not equal either and that SD programs broadcast in HD are not great either.

Yes exactly.
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post #1986 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kev1031 View Post

I guess I'm not the only one feeling the image is a bit soft. However, my "LED" eyes are getting accustom to the natural look of the plasma. I believe good HD contents will look amazing (tried a few Blu-ray) but upconverted HD contents from FIOS HD channels does not look as sharp as LED. Some FIOS HD channels looks nice (news broadcast at the studio) but other upconverted HD looks grainy and soft.
For plasma, I don't like the fact that I need to watch out for static image (which is ok, dont have much chance to display static image for long), or widescreen movie (with black bar on top and bottom), or hours of video games with HUD. Extra careful needed with IR.
I'm still debating to keep this plasma or just go with 2012 Samsung 6 series LED.

I might not return to led but if it turns out this indeed is a sample variation, then either I would exchange it or go with samsung e8000. Anyone knows how would e8000 compare with GT50 ?
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post #1987 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 03:04 PM
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I'm back in the same situation.
Just returned a ST50 because of the 720p smuggy/smeary/blotty problem & my GT50 delivered today does the exact same thing.
I guess it's just a problem with this years line or some edge enhancer that they thought made 720p look better.
IDK what to do now. I really wanted this years Panasonic plasma but 720p is ugly on this years & I'm still playing alot of 720p games.
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post #1988 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

^^^
My guess is it would never have been a problem had you not read that it could be a problem. smile.gif That said, if it bothers you at all it will never go away, so you might consider returning it.
I have the 65GT50, it has no buzzing whatsoever, so I guess I am one of the lucky few.

Thanks for the reply. I realize no one else can make this decision for me. I recall more than one person saying that all plasmas have some degree of buzz. So that would lead me to believe that some folks' listening environment (distance, other devices, acoustics, etc) prevent them from hearing any noise while others just put up with it up to a certain point. I just don't want to exchange this TV for another one that is exactly the same.

I guess the good news is that this 8300HD DVR is a bit more noisy than the TV. Of course I don't own it.
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post #1989 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

Does all the hdmi inputs in Gt50 1.4v capable ?
Yes, all the HDMI inputs are 1.4.
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the manual doesn't say anything specific but it seems like only hdmi2 is ARC capable.
That's correct. You only need to use one HDMI for ARC and HDMI 2 is the designated one.

Calibration Resources:

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post #1990 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 04:32 PM
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i read elsewhere from techs in the field the new plasmas DO NOT need burn-in or running of slides etc.
contrast should be higher setting than brightness AND sharpness should be all the way down to zero

i have also found personally the HDTV calibration dvd/bluray etc are a total waste of money and your eyesight on a true hd scene will get better results
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post #1991 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by M7C View Post

Thanks for the reply. I realize no one else can make this decision for me. I recall more than one person saying that all plasmas have some degree of buzz. So that would lead me to believe that some folks' listening environment (distance, other devices, acoustics, etc) prevent them from hearing any noise while others just put up with it up to a certain point. I just don't want to exchange this TV for another one that is exactly the same.
I guess the good news is that this 8300HD DVR is a bit more noisy than the TV. Of course I don't own it.

Every plasma I've ever owned had a buzz but the question is how bad is it? It seems to vary greatly between each set, not only in loudness but also in pitch. If you can hear it while you're watching normal content with audio then it's definitely a good idea to exchange it. My 60GT50 buzzes too but I can only hear it while running slides in a dead silent environment, where I can hear it even from 12 feet away as I'm cursed with good hearing. But here's the thing, it's not a high pitch buzz but rather a low-ish frequency which is greatly muted. And best of all, at least in my case, I cannot hear a single bit of it when watching normal content with any level of audio. I may have briefly considered exchanging the set but because it's an otherwise flawless panel (zero dead pixels, no banding or lines, not a single hint of IR and perfect uniformity) I'm going to keep it. Chances are if I exchange it, I might get a less-buzzy set but it may very well have other more noticeable issue, possibly PQ-related, which would be a deal breaker for me.

I'm very much enjoying using this TV but in your case if the buzzing is getting in the way of you enjoying it, I think you should definitely exchange it.
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post #1992 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kev1031 View Post

I guess I'm not the only one feeling the image is a bit soft. However, my "LED" eyes are getting accustom to the natural look of the plasma. I believe good HD contents will look amazing (tried a few Blu-ray) but upconverted HD contents from FIOS HD channels does not look as sharp as LED. Some FIOS HD channels looks nice (news broadcast at the studio) but other upconverted HD looks grainy and soft.
For plasma, I don't like the fact that I need to watch out for static image (which is ok, dont have much chance to display static image for long), or widescreen movie (with black bar on top and bottom), or hours of video games with HUD. Extra careful needed with IR.
I'm still debating to keep this plasma or just go with 2012 Samsung 6 series LED.

Once the set is broken in you wont have to worry about IR or burn in. I am in the middle of my break in period and i have yet to see an ounce of IR and i am not even all that carefull.
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post #1993 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Given the right signal, the graininess would look like it does with the blu-ray. I don't think anyone provides that, close but not exactly that good. In other words, your programming doesn't look as good as the blu-ray then it is the fault of the source and not the tv. If you get your tv professionally calibrated (not Best Buy) then you can be assured that you've done all that you can to get the best picture your tv can produce.

I maybe wrong but per my understanding GT50 doesn't have the same ISF calibration capabilities like VT50. Does it still makes sense to get GT50 professionally calibrated ? Somewhere I read that someone did a calibration on GT50 by entering the service mode. How do you enter a "service mode" ? I do quiet a bit of photography and have above average monitors with hardware calibrators. So I am accustomed to the entire color and grayscale calibration process which I do myself. Since GT50 doesn't have the ISF calibration, wondering if i can just calibrate it to the extent possible using a calibration dvd. And if I do, would it be any better than the predefined THX mode ? Any opinions ?
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post #1994 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

I maybe wrong but per my understanding GT50 doesn't have the same ISF calibration capabilities like VT50. Does it still makes sense to get GT50 professionally calibrated ? Somewhere I read that someone did a calibration on GT50 by entering the service mode. How do you enter a "service mode" ? I do quiet a bit of photography and have above average monitors with hardware calibrators. So I am accustomed to the entire color and grayscale calibration process which I do myself. Since GT50 doesn't have the ISF calibration, wondering if i can just calibrate it to the extent possible using a calibration dvd. And if I do, would it be any better than the predefined THX mode ? Any opinions ?
There is a forum dedicated to owner calibration. You'll probably find more information there from others who do calibrations. It's the last forum in the Display Devices section.

Calibration Resources:

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post #1995 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

There is a forum dedicated to owner calibration. You'll probably find more information there from others who do calibrations. It's the last forum in the Display Devices section.

okay, thanks. I will head over to see if I can find anything.
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post #1996 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pltctytc View Post

i read elsewhere from techs in the field the new plasmas DO NOT need burn-in or running of slides etc.
contrast should be higher setting than brightness AND sharpness should be all the way down to zero
i have also found personally the HDTV calibration dvd/bluray etc are a total waste of money and your eyesight on a true hd scene will get better results

You obviously have not read enough... keep reading.

Also, if you can make accurate adjustments to the 2 point gray scale and color settings using just your eyes then you are just incredible. rolleyes.gif

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post #1997 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

I maybe wrong but per my understanding GT50 doesn't have the same ISF calibration capabilities like VT50. Does it still makes sense to get GT50 professionally calibrated ? Somewhere I read that someone did a calibration on GT50 by entering the service mode. How do you enter a "service mode" ? I do quiet a bit of photography and have above average monitors with hardware calibrators. So I am accustomed to the entire color and grayscale calibration process which I do myself. Since GT50 doesn't have the ISF calibration, wondering if i can just calibrate it to the extent possible using a calibration dvd. And if I do, would it be any better than the predefined THX mode ? Any opinions ?

You don't need to go into the csm or the isf tools this year. Have you had a chance to read Chad B's reviews and look at the charts for his or D-Nice's calibrations? If you have a meter, a good eye and the AVS 709 disc you might want to give calibrating Custom ago. Let me know if you need any links. wink.gif

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post #1998 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TIME2PLAYDAGAME View Post

I'm actually using the VT settings by Katz from CNet, minus the 10p wb but IMO it looks just as good as THX. Only thing I did was bring the brightness down 3 notches since their review was done in a dim room and my living room is almost theater dark when I watch movies. I could've sworn I read somewhere that the THX modes are almost set in stone. Like if you change brightness or contrast, it's minimal and not the same as using a custom setting. You also get control of the pixel orbiter & motion smoother.
I have a question....What size picture is everyone using while viewing BluRay material or gaming? I use Size 2 for watching FiOS programming but I'm not sure if I'm taking away from BD movies if I set to Size 1?

Thanks, I applied those settings and i think they look really good. I still prefer THX Cinema for movies at night but these Custom settings look good for sports and shows on cable.

I have not messed with screen sizes because I am pretty sure if you change it from Size 2 to Size 1 (or anything else) it will cut off some of the intended view and it will also affect the PQ. You will get the most clear and sharp picture in Size 2.
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post #1999 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

I might not return to led but if it turns out this indeed is a sample variation, then either I would exchange it or go with samsung e8000. Anyone knows how would e8000 compare with GT50 ?

If a super sharp and "polished" look is what you want, you may be happier with the E8000. It has a slightly sharper image while watching HD cable and is probably closer to the LCD look you are used to. Just keep in mind that if you make the switch you will be giving up the brighter whites (the E8000 does not get very bright), much deeper blacks, and (IMO) more natural picture quality of the GT50.

I actually did the opposite and switched from the E8000 to the GT50. My biggest reason for returning the Samsung was issues with fluctuating brightness and buzz, but now that i have the GT50 i would never go back to the greyish blacks i was used to before. The black level on this thing is seriously awesome...not to mention it is issue free.smile.gif
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post #2000 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

You don't need to go into the csm or the isf tools this year. Have you had a chance to read Chad B's reviews and look at the charts for his or D-Nice's calibrations? If you have a meter, a good eye and the AVS 709 disc you might want to give calibrating Custom ago. Let me know if you need any links. wink.gif

That would be awesome if you could post all the links here. Thanks!
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post #2001 of 9801 Old 06-08-2012, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by debjit_g View Post

That would be awesome if you could post all the links here. Thanks!

Chad B GT50 review (the charts are pdf at the end of the review): http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403635/official-panasonic-gt50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/360#post_21920785

D-Nice's settings and report is of the ST50 (GT50 coming this month) at high def junkie dot com and you have to be a member to see it and it is forbidden to post a link to that site here. However, his results were very similar to Chad B's: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1397245/official-panasonic-st50-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/300#post_21795029

AVSHD 709 thread with links to the down load, instructions etc. If you need any help post your questions there or here (someone may be able to help). I found a few videos on youtube that helped me better understand what I was looking for but that was last year and it was not blu-ray. http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

BTW, note that with the GT50 THX Cinema was calibrated and with the ST50 Custom was.

Have fun and let me know how it goes.

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post #2002 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 04:12 AM
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"I have not messed with screen sizes because I am pretty sure if you change it from Size 2 to Size 1 (or anything else) it will cut off some of the intended view and it will also affect the PQ. You will get the most clear and sharp picture in Size 2"

Changing to size 1 adds 5% overscan to the image which then enables the anti IR pixel orbiter. I am not aware of any objective evidence to suggest that this will affect the overall picture quality of the image.
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post #2003 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 04:49 AM
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Playing games on my ps3 and the image is very soft, almost blurry for some reason. Info button says 720p, custom, full, my 6 year old sammy was better looking. frown.gif

The scariest words in the English language are:
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post #2004 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 05:51 AM
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Playing games on my ps3 and the image is very soft, almost blurry for some reason. Info button says 720p, custom, full, my 6 year old sammy was better looking. frown.gif

What happens when you set picture mode to: GAME, sharpness to max, resolution enhancer to max???
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post #2005 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 06:06 AM
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Does anyone know if you gain sharpness in image when moving up to the VT50? I would never sacrifice black levels to get a sharper image, but if VT offers this, I would get the best of both worlds.
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post #2006 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 06:23 AM
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Hello, sharpness does nothing from 0-100 i really cant tell a difference. The resolution enhancer or 1080p pure direct changes the colors ever so slightly makes then a tad darker. Game mode has the most impact from my custom settings but the blur is still there. Maybe it has something to do with the PS3 outputting in 720p, my 360 is good, which up-scales everything to 1080p...

The scariest words in the English language are:
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PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2007 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 06:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swillis55 View Post

Changing to size 1 adds 5% overscan to the image which then enables the anti IR pixel orbiter. It does not in any way affect the overall picture quality of the image.

Yes it does, HD Size 1 makes the image a little softer as well as robbing me of 5% of my screen size. The Pixel Orbiter really doesn't help with IR anyway.

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post #2008 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 07:08 AM
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I've seen several posts now with people having 720P "softness". I have several 720P movies and gave them a quick look last evening. They look great. Clear, sharp and colorful. These were through a USB port. The gt50's scaler can do a great job with 720P. I'm wondering if the 720P "issue"(which I have never seen) isn't some strange timing issue with HDMI and some cable/game boxes. Have any of you tried running through the component input.

Also, I have seen several posts talking about screen size 1 and 2? I thought I seen every option on my set but I haven't seen those. Where is this setting? What else haven't I seen yet biggrin.gif

I was finding the chrome strip around the left-top-right a little distracting. Not the entire strip, but just the small thin edge that you can seen from the front of the set. Took a black Sharpie and did a black-out job. Looks tremendous. If you angle the pen and allow your hand and the pen to follow the edge contour, you can get a perfectly straight black-out that looks like it came that way from the factory. (I do have a well practiced "graphic arts" hand) I left the chrome pin-stripe at the bottom alone; its a very nice little accent.
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post #2009 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 07:13 AM
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Have not tried component, don't have any. Everything is going direct to TV through HDMI. Just have 360 and PS3 hooked in...360 looks great PS3 not so much...

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2010 of 9801 Old 06-09-2012, 07:29 AM
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I have a 55GT50 and just saw your post. The Netflix app does support subtitles...if they're available. When you select something to watch, the next screen that comes up will mention subtitles if they are available and you will then have to select that and indicate that you want them. Not all videos from Netflix streaming have subtitles.
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