Official Panasonic GT50 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

OMG, just threw in LIMBO because that game is nothing but grey and black and the game is almost unplayable on the GT50. Looks like dancing ants all over the screen. Going back to Best Buy now for my now 4th return. 2 from Amazon 2 from different Best Buy stores. And just to let you guys know, its not my consoles because I have a sammy 50 in the same room and that looks golden. Will update when I get back.

Same tv all four times? It seems like maybe you should go in a different direction.
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post #2162 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 06:25 PM
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Or learn how to set up a TV...
sheshechic and agkss like this.

Turn it up!
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post #2163 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

OMG, just threw in LIMBO because that game is nothing but grey and black and the game is almost unplayable on the GT50. Looks like dancing ants all over the screen. Going back to Best Buy now for my now 4th return. 2 from Amazon 2 from different Best Buy stores. And just to let you guys know, its not my consoles because I have a sammy 50 in the same room and that looks golden. Will update when I get back.

Strange. The game must pose a challenge to the TV of some sort. I just took a random sample of PS3 games from my collection; two that are somewhat dark in gameplay (inFamous and LA Noire) and two that are normal-to-bright (GT5 and NBA 2K9). All the games natively output in 720p except for GT5 which is 1080p. Stood 6 feet away from the TV (60GT50) which is closer than I would normally be and tried each game for a few minutes in three modes (THX Cinema, THX Bright Room and Game). They all displayed perfectly. Game mode popped but also looked unrealistic, as contrast and brightness were off the charts. THX Cinema looked best, it was spot-on from all 4 titles. I'll try more games in the coming days but so far so good. cool.gif
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post #2164 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

OMG, just threw in LIMBO because that game is nothing but grey and black and the game is almost unplayable on the GT50. Looks like dancing ants all over the screen. Going back to Best Buy now for my now 4th return. 2 from Amazon 2 from different Best Buy stores. And just to let you guys know, its not my consoles because I have a sammy 50 in the same room and that looks golden. Will update when I get back.

Get another Samsung. You are singly responsible for driving prices up. Please, no more updates from you - you're downright depressing. mad.gif

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post #2165 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 08:39 PM
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I can understand replacing one set with a second one if I was unhappy with the PQ and thought there was a defect present, BUT FOUR returns says more about the purchaser than the TV. If I sit 3 feet away from my 60" set and look into the shadows I can see dithering but its just as aparent on my old Samy LCD. At normal distance its just grey. The dither "noise" is better on the GT50; its just a soft / flowing grey whereas the LCD shows clearly defined gradient edges. I think this is where the 24,000 "shades of grey" on the GT50 come into play.

If this dithering is what you are seeing, its not a flaw. Its a feature. Lower the brightness / contrast to make it darker and less noticeable. Better yet, move back to a normal viewing distance. TV's are NOT retina displays. If you look close enough you will find flaws with ALL displays.

I just watched a 480i broadcast on a PBS secondary channel and was truely surprised how good it looked. Nearly all that great PQ is from the great black level on the GT50.

I still can't believe I was wrestling with an LG LED-LCD 2 weeks ago and never got close to the PQ of the GT50 on a pre-set mode.
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post #2166 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

whoa..contrast at 90-95!!!.....waaaay too high...try some of the other settings posted or just pop in a test disc and self adjust.......not in game or vivid mode please

Actually, it's not too high in THX Bright Room. If you play with it you'll see that any change is relatively small. And I stop if I see any hint of crushing. wink.gif

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post #2167 of 9787 Old 06-15-2012, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tom1996 View Post

I am taking notes for when I order my 50GT50 next week. The above was your response to bad picture of NBA finals Game 2. How was your picture?

Those are the settings from when I had the 60GT50, I since exchanged it for a VT50. My response was a suggestion since the problem is either source related, bad setup or bad settings.

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post #2168 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 04:26 AM
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450


I'm back.. 4th set same problem. Took a picture for you guys. Do you see how it goes from black to grey on the shadow, those dots light up like a Christmas tree if I move my character. So if your playing a game like LIMBO its almost unplayable. Its a snowy mess, this is a problem with all the GT50 IMO.

And all those that had a problem there is my proof. Single handily driving up prices, give me a break you tool.

PS That is Battlefield 3, first night level, shadow of the gun from a light source in the game.

PPS Thanks to the people that actually cared about helping.

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2169 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

450
I'm back.. 4th set same problem. Took a picture for you guys. Do you see how it goes from black to grey on the shadow, those dots light up like a Christmas tree if I move my character. So if your playing a game like LIMBO its almost unplayable. Its a snowy mess, this is a problem with all the GT50 IMO.
And all those that had a problem there is my proof. Single handily driving up prices, give me a break you tool.
PS That is Battlefield 3, first night level, shadow of the gun from a light source in the game.
PPS Thanks to the people that actually cared about helping.

I am curious, what is the PQ when watching a Blue-ray disc or cable TV?
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post #2170 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 05:27 AM
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Iv'e only watched animated blu-rays but there fantastic no problems..

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2171 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

450
I'm back.. 4th set same problem. Took a picture for you guys. Do you see how it goes from black to grey on the shadow, those dots light up like a Christmas tree if I move my character. So if your playing a game like LIMBO its almost unplayable. Its a snowy mess, this is a problem with all the GT50 IMO.
And all those that had a problem there is my proof. Single handily driving up prices, give me a break you tool.
PS That is Battlefield 3, first night level, shadow of the gun from a light source in the game.
PPS Thanks to the people that actually cared about helping.

I'm not familiar with your game. I have no idea what the picture shows.This looks like an oil stain on my garage floor; I'm trying to understand your PQ issue but I just can't figure out what that photo is. Is this a section of the screen or the entire screen ? Can you give us a photo at the same point in the game displayed on the Samy for comparison to show what its supposed to look like?
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post #2172 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 07:08 AM
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That's a shadow of a gun on a wall. All those spotted dots around it are not suppose to be there. It gives the TV a snowy look when its a dark game.

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2173 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 07:17 AM
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450450

Both images are from LIMBO which is a all grey and black game. You can see the image on the left and the thousands of dots that are dancing around on the screen. Any game that has this type of grey to black shadow the GT50 cannot handle it.

A game that has nothing but color looks like a million bucks. The 24000 shads of grey has made this TV a lemon...

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2174 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

That's a shadow of a gun on a wall. All that spotted dots around it is not suppose to be there. It give the TV a snowy look when its a dark game.

Dithering. How far from the screen can you see this? Does it look like that in every mode? Have you lowered contrast and brightness settings? Have you tried setting hdmi content type to Graphics?

Sorry about all the questions.

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post #2175 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 08:58 AM
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I set around 10' or so away. It looks like this in every mode. Contrast and brightness have been turned way down with no help. Hdmi type graphics did noting also. No worries on the questions.

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2176 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 09:58 AM
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Does anyone think the VT50 would not have this problem with shades of grey? I have been leaning towards the VT50 lately.
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post #2177 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 10:07 AM
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Dang.
I can't think of anything else to suggest other than ensuring that all processing is turned off, that panel brightness is set to mid, HD size is 2, set player to 1080 if available. One other thing (based on something that D-Nice said regarding the ST30) give the panel some time to settle in. In this case, it might benefit you to age your panel quickly by running the slides for 100 or so hours. Since everything else looks good, ageing the panel could resolve your issues. (link to ST30 post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1325398/official-panasonic-gt30-series-discussion-thread-no-price-talk/30#post_20239170 )
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

I set around 10' or so away. It looks like this in every mode. Contrast and brightness have been turned way down with no help. Hdmi type graphics did noting also. No worries on the questions.

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post #2178 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 10:36 AM
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Does anyone think the VT50 would not have this problem with shades of grey? I have been leaning towards the VT50 lately.

It will be the same.

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post #2179 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Dang.
I can't think of anything else to suggest other than ensuring that all processing is turned off, that panel brightness is set to mid, HD size is 2, set player to 1080 if available. One other thing (based on something that D-Nice said regarding the ST30) give the panel some time to settle in. In this case, it might benefit you to age your panel quickly by running the slides for 100 or so hours. Since everything else looks good, ageing the panel could resolve your issues. (link to ST30 post: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1325398/official-panasonic-gt30-series-discussion-thread-no-price-talk/30#post_20239170 )

Thanks for the link, I just cant believe there have not been more post on this issue. No way I got 4 bad sets...

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2180 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

It will be the same.

Agreed, that's why you cannot see it in an animated movie, the shadows are built into the code of the movie they are not dynamic. On the other hand games for the most part have a dynamic lighting function built into the code. Say you have a light swinging back and forth and you put your player against a solid surface where the light will bounce off of you, this 24000 steps of graduation cannot handle the complex mixture of grey and black tones. That is why your seeing pixalated (sp) dots surround that one item as per the picture of Battlefront 3 above. And god forbid you have a game like LIMBO where the entire game is made up of Grey's and blacks. Its almost unplayable.

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2181 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

Agreed, that's why you cannot see it in an animated movie, the shadows are built into the code of the movie they are not dynamic. On the other hand games for the most part have a dynamic lighting function built into the code. Say you have a light swinging back and forth and you put your player against a solid surface where the light will bounce off of you, this 24000 steps of graduation cannot handle the complex mixture of grey and black tones. That is why your seeing pixalated (sp) dots surround that one item as per the picture of Battlefront 3 above. And god forbid you have a game like LIMBO where the entire game is made up of Grey's and blacks. Its almost unplayable.

So it is the steps of gradation that is the problem? How can they create a technology like this and it have adverse affects? Would previous models not have this problem?
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post #2182 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 11:29 AM
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So it is the steps of gradation that is the problem? How can they create a technology like this and it have adverse affects? Would previous models not have this problem?

Its brand new for the 2012 line up. The ST50 does not have this problem because it does not have this function.

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2183 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

Agreed, that's why you cannot see it in an animated movie, the shadows are built into the code of the movie they are not dynamic. On the other hand games for the most part have a dynamic lighting function built into the code. Say you have a light swinging back and forth and you put your player against a solid surface where the light will bounce off of you, this 24000 steps of graduation cannot handle the complex mixture of grey and black tones. That is why your seeing pixalated (sp) dots surround that one item as per the picture of Battlefront 3 above. And god forbid you have a game like LIMBO where the entire game is made up of Grey's and blacks. Its almost unplayable.

Are you going to break it in and see what the result is or exchange it for an ST?

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Its brand new for the 2012 line up. The ST50 does not have this problem because it does not have this function.

I believe that this is why D-Nice recommends the ST over the GT and in certain instances even over the VT. He did post a cryptic comment, early on, that the impact of the "steps of gray" would not be good. I'm thinking that the offensive dithering I saw in chapter 19 of Collateral may have been the result of the steps of gray too.

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post #2184 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Are you going to break it in and see what the result is or exchange it for an ST?
I believe that this is why D-Nice recommends the ST over the GT and in certain instances even over the VT. He did post a cryptic comment, early on, that the impact of the "steps of gray" would not be good. I'm thinking that the offensive dithering I saw in chapter 19 of Collateral may have been the result of the steps of gray too.

Exactly, I have friends at CNET that do network configuration for them. They have told me Panasonic contacted them to pull the GT50 review until other wise noted. That is why you haven't seen a review from them yet. Called Best Buy an hour ago for an exchange, ST50 coming in, the best TV of picture quality reviewed by CNET yet.

And that is the exact reason IMO they rated the ST50 better than the VT.

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2185 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 02:11 PM
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And that is the exact reason IMO they rated the ST50 better than the VT.

I'm not seeing where they did this... The VT50 is rated the best TV after the Sharp Elite, but in many eyes the Elite is unreasonable.

These comments about the new shades of gradation are confusing me greatly. I first wanted the GT50, then decided on the VT50 and am now eyeing the ST50. I just want the best all-around television of the year. Aside from the Elite, what is the best television? All but the Elite is all reasonably priced to me.

Ugh...
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post #2186 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 02:15 PM
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http://reviews.cnet.com/best-high-definition-tvs/?tag=column2.0;buyAdvice

Here it is ST was reviewed as the best TV overall. Over the VT.

They might say the best pq for the VT, but let me assure you, the ST will trump the VT in a lot of areas.

Do not touch the VT and its price, better picture on the ST for half the money...

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

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post #2187 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-high-definition-tvs/?tag=column2.0;buyAdvice
Here it is ST was reviewed as the best TV overall. Over the VT.
They might say the best pq for the VT, but let me assure you, the ST will trump the VT in a lot of areas.
Do not touch the VT and its price, better picture on the ST for half the money...

I am able to get wicked employee accommodations at work and the VT has a great price for me. Would this change anything? Do the shades of gradation offer any benefits? I watch a lot of sci-fi shows and movies with pretty much nonstop scenes display intense action and blacks in the form of shadows, night, space (ei. Supernatural, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, Lost). Does my viewing choice make a difference? I will also use the television as a gaming monitor for a high-end gaming computer (I am aware of IR).

I have a way in which I can get the GT50 at the same cost of the ST50 at any size. This is not worth taking?

My biggest struggle is in believing that Panasonic would screw this up.
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post #2188 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by crzycuyler View Post

Do the shades of gradation offer any benefits? I watch a lot of sci-fi shows and movies with pretty much nonstop scenes display intense action and blacks in the form of shadows, night, space (ei. Supernatural, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, Lost). Does my viewing choice make a difference? I will also use the television as a gaming monitor for a high-end gaming computer (I am aware of IR).
There are a lot of variables, depending on your preferences, that are involved it picking the best display for you. I tend to be skeptical of highly passionate minority reports -- either positive or negative. wink.gif
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post #2189 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 03:09 PM
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Exactly, I have friends at CNET that do network configuration for them. They have told me Panasonic contacted them to pull the GT50 review until other wise noted. That is why you haven't seen a review from them yet.

There seems to be a more innocuous explanation of the delay in CNET's GT50 review here: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/ That is, CNET wanted to restart testing of the GT50 with a new review sample after they inadvertently burned-in a static image.

I would rather not believe that Panasonic is behind the delay, but I have no insider information one way or another.
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post #2190 of 9787 Old 06-16-2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by crzycuyler View Post

I am able to get wicked employee accommodations at work and the VT has a great price for me. Would this change anything? Do the shades of gradation offer any benefits? I watch a lot of sci-fi shows and movies with pretty much nonstop scenes display intense action and blacks in the form of shadows, night, space (ei. Supernatural, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, Lost). Does my viewing choice make a difference? I will also use the television as a gaming monitor for a high-end gaming computer (I am aware of IR).
I have a way in which I can get the GT50 at the same cost of the ST50 at any size. This is not worth taking?
My biggest struggle is in believing that Panasonic would screw this up.

Long story short. Get a ST...

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

PS3 HDMI 1.4
GT50 3D 1080p Plasma HDTV
10' 1080P@60

Lestat Phoenix is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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