ST30 Help - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jacksonmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: IA
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Purchased a 42" ST 30 and I can't seem to find a picture setting that isn't soft and DARK.

I own a z1 and a g10 and I am disappointed in how Dark the picture is. It has no pop and the image is really soft looking. Another thing I noticed was unreal color banding.

I am no videophile but I feel let down by this set so far.

I used the D Nice pic settings but does anyone have a suggestion on how to get more pop or a brighter image?
jacksonmaha is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 07:35 PM
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 498
The ST30's i've set up for friends and played with are a lot brighter than my G10 and they have more pop too. Something ain't right........

What Picture mode are you using?

What's your Contrast set at?

What's your Brightness set at?

What's your Color set at?

What's your HD Size set at?

What kind of signal are you sending to the TV?

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
RandyWalters is offline  
post #3 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 07:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tfoltz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 3,530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 61
Try this thread. You may want to try a 2012 model since 2011 does not suit your needs.
tfoltz is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jacksonmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: IA
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The ST30's i've set up for friends and played with are a lot brighter than my G10 and they have more pop too. Something ain't right........

What Picture mode are you using?

What's your Contrast set at?

What's your Brightness set at?

What's your Color set at?

What's your HD Size set at?

What kind of signal are you sending to the TV?

Thanks for the reply.


Custom

78

60

45

Size 1

HDMI Direct TV HD signal that varies from 720 to 1080

I'm puzzled too.
jacksonmaha is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 08:48 PM
Member
 
Techgurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 127
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonmaha View Post

Purchased a 42" ST 30 and u can't seem to find a picture setting that isn't soft and DARK.

I own a z1 and a g10 and I am disappointed in how Dark the picture is. It has no pop and the image is really soft looking. Another thing I noticed was unreal color banding.

I am no videophile but I feel let down by this set so far.

I used the D Nice pic settings but does anyone have a suggestion on how to get more pop or a brighter image?

I felt the same way when I first got my ST30, but after the first 100 hours or so, it got noticably brighter and overall PQ improved.
Techgurl is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 04-09-2012, 09:50 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dierkdr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 849
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Quote:


Purchased a 42" ST 30 and u can't seem to find a picture setting that isn't soft and DARK.

Different size, but (other problems aside...) would not characterize our 60" ST30 as "Dark" - at least on any setting other than the Default Standard picture settings.

You posted Custom settings - but what about Panel Brightness (under Pro Menu): Low, Mid, or High?

Would also agree with observation that panel tends to look better after aging a while, although cannot say whether that is due to better black levels, increased brightness, or just Viewer Accommodation....

Note: If you sit close enough, and at an "off" vertical angle (high or low), the louvered filter can cast a somewhat dark haze over the screen, but that is easy enough to check: just change your viewing angle.
Dierkdr is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 04:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonmaha View Post

Purchased a 42" ST 30 and u can't seem to find a picture setting that isn't soft and DARK.

I own a z1 and a g10 and I am disappointed in how Dark the picture is. It has no pop and the image is really soft looking. Another thing I noticed was unreal color banding.

I am no videophile but I feel let down by this set so far.

I used the D Nice pic settings but does anyone have a suggestion on how to get more pop or a brighter image?

I PM'd you. Follow the instructions exactly and you should be happy. I have a 42ST30 also.
Jimmy is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 07:37 AM
"Don't PM Me Bro"
 
RandyWalters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: El Segundo, Calif
Posts: 17,516
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonmaha View Post

Thanks for the reply.

Custom

78

60

45

Try bumping the Contrast higher - one of my friends like 90 on his ST30 and it's pretty bright. Then maybe nudge the Brightness a little lower but not so low that black stuff turns into a blob.

And did you adjust the Panel Brightness setting in the Pro sub-menu? Try Mid or even High. Play with it.


Quote:


Size 1

Change that to HD Size 2. HD Size 1 zooms the image and gives about 5% overscan and softens the picture. HD Size 2 will sharpen things up.


Quote:


HDMI Direct TV HD signal that varies from 720 to 1080

Try setting your DirecTV receiver to output everything at 1080i Fixed (disable all the other output formats). On my Tivo, TWC DVR, and my friends' DirecTV and FIOS DVRs i always set them to 1080i only and it makes the image more crisp and more detailed in my back-to-back comparisons and demonstrations at disbelieving friends' houses. Leaving it at 1080i also makes some of the channel changing go quicker.

Do all this and report back

Randy
TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
RandyWalters is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
jacksonmaha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: IA
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thank you all for the input.

I will play with the settings some more.

I really appreciate it!
jacksonmaha is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 12:56 PM
Member
 
Fliplm0de's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Let me know if you'd like to try my settings I think its pretty good for a 42 and i spent hours on the ST30 thread reading and trying lol. PM me!GL!
Fliplm0de is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 01:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gremmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Make sure you have the set on mid panel brightness. Set HDMI input mode to Graphic (if you use Auto or Off, your gamma will be completely hosed.)

On custom, Pump the contrast up to 80 (at 86, it stops doing anything whatsoever on mid panel brightness, but you could push it a little further than 80 if you want. On my set, going above 80 increased the severity of green push, but your set may be different.)

Make sure Black Extension and AGC (or whatever it's called) are turned off. AGC in particular is an abomination.

Yes, I think it is fair to characterize the OOTB performance of my 60ST30 as both dim and dark. Mine had a horrible bump in the gamma centered around 80 IRE that turned whites into dingy dark soup and destroyed highlights. I fixed it with an external video processor, but there's no other way to fix it if your set has that particular problem, and I have seen that gamma spike on MANY owner posted graphs so I know I'm not alone, although the severity of its effect appears to vary considerably.

For reference, I measured only 19 ftL on low panel brightness and around 30 ftL on mid panel brightness. High panel brightness creates a lot of distortion in low IRE scenes and doesn't raise the peak brightness much at all, so avoid that like the plague.

I am pretty happy with my set now, but it cost me an extra couple of bills for a used VP.

I hear that the 2012 sets are supposed to be brighter.
gremmy is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 07:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
pwiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 813
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

Make sure you have the set on mid panel brightness. Set HDMI input mode to Graphic (if you use Auto or Off, your gamma will be completely hosed.)

On custom, Pump the contrast up to 80 (at 86, it stops doing anything whatsoever on mid panel brightness, but you could push it a little further than 80 if you want. On my set, going above 80 increased the severity of green push, but your set may be different.)

Make sure Black Extension and AGC (or whatever it's called) are turned off. AGC in particular is an abomination.

Yes, I think it is fair to characterize the OOTB performance of my 60ST30 as both dim and dark. Mine had a horrible bump in the gamma centered around 80 IRE that turned whites into dingy dark soup and destroyed highlights. I fixed it with an external video processor, but there's no other way to fix it if your set has that particular problem, and I have seen that gamma spike on MANY owner posted graphs so I know I'm not alone, although the severity of its effect appears to vary considerably.

For reference, I measured only 19 ftL on low panel brightness and around 30 ftL on mid panel brightness. High panel brightness creates a lot of distortion in low IRE scenes and doesn't raise the peak brightness much at all, so avoid that like the plague.

I am pretty happy with my set now, but it cost me an extra couple of bills for a used VP.

I hear that the 2012 sets are supposed to be brighter.

Did you change your feelings on black extension? Most of the settings on the DIY thread were based off your findings regarding the gamma benefits of black extension at +5 and brightness at 73.
pwiss is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 08:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwiss View Post


Did you change your feelings on black extension? Most of the settings on the DIY thread were based off your findings regarding the gamma benefits of black extension at +5 and brightness at 73.

I'm confused too.
Jimmy is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 04-10-2012, 09:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gremmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
black extension was a setting i tinkered with on my way toward finally buying the vp and getting the results i wanted. my comments above werent intended to condemn the use of black extension outright but because i was trying to make the ops set brighter without dumping too much analysis or loads of settings on him. the diy calibration thread is always there if he wants to tweak.

i mean if he turns off agc without adjusting BE who knows what he will get.

honestly i do think BE can be helpful, especially in a bright room where black level is not that important.
gremmy is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 04-11-2012, 07:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

black extension was a setting i tinkered with on my way toward finally buying the vp and getting the results i wanted. my comments above werent intended to condemn the use of black extension outright but because i was trying to make the ops set brighter without dumping too much analysis or loads of settings on him. the diy calibration thread is always there if he wants to tweak.

i mean if he turns off agc without adjusting BE who knows what he will get.

honestly i do think BE can be helpful, especially in a bright room where black level is not that important.

Well BE was extremely helpful on my set. I had been comparing my VT30 to my calibrated VT25 and I was underwhelmed with the ST PQ, no matter what I tried. Then I read what you were doing with +4 and + 5 BE, experimented and "Bingo" that was it. I was in range of the looks of the VT25. Amazingly good in all light, but better in daylight as you say. But more importantly, good across most viewing material, excellent color, tones and detail. I thank you anyway Gremmy!
Jimmy is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 04-11-2012, 08:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gremmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,942
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post

Well BE was extremely helpful on my set. I had been comparing my VT30 to my calibrated VT25 and I was underwhelmed with the ST PQ, no matter what I tried. Then I read what you were doing with +4 and + 5 BE, experimented and "Bingo" that was it. I was in range of the looks of the VT25. Amazingly good in all light, but better in daylight as you say. But more importantly, good across most viewing material, excellent color, tones and detail. I thank you anyway Gremmy!

I suspect that BE is helpful for the same reason that my custom gamma curve is helpful. I think (but cannot seem to prove) that the ST30 is overly darkening shadow detail on dynamic content, even though this isn't visible on any test patterns. By putting BE on +4 and raising black level to eliminate black crush, I think it effectively raises the black floor high enough that shadow detail is no longer overly dark (I hesitate to use the word 'crushed' because I'm not sure if that applies).

So yes, I do understand the appeal of BE, but only if is accompanied by a big increase in black level and if the user can tolerate it. It's a mixed bag.
gremmy is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old 04-11-2012, 08:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post

I suspect that BE is helpful for the same reason that my custom gamma curve is helpful. I think (but cannot seem to prove) that the ST30 is overly darkening shadow detail on dynamic content, even though this isn't visible on any test patterns. By putting BE on +4 and raising black level to eliminate black crush, I think it effectively raises the black floor high enough that shadow detail is no longer overly dark (I hesitate to use the word 'crushed' because I'm not sure if that applies).

So yes, I do understand the appeal of BE, but only if is accompanied by a big increase in black level and if the user can tolerate it. It's a mixed bag.

^^^Good points ^^^

65VT60(Calibrated by Chad B)
55ST60(Calibrated by Chunon)
Darbee DVP5000
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast/I1Pro/I1D3
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is online now  
post #18 of 18 Old 04-11-2012, 09:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jimmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Frederick, Maryland
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by gremmy View Post


I suspect that BE is helpful for the same reason that my custom gamma curve is helpful. I think (but cannot seem to prove) that the ST30 is overly darkening shadow detail on dynamic content, even though this isn't visible on any test patterns. By putting BE on +4 and raising black level to eliminate black crush, I think it effectively raises the black floor high enough that shadow detail is no longer overly dark (I hesitate to use the word 'crushed' because I'm not sure if that applies).

So yes, I do understand the appeal of BE, but only if is accompanied by a big increase in black level and if the user can tolerate it. It's a mixed bag.

Oh, I heartily agree that's what it does. I wanted to call it crushing as well but wasn't sure if I knew what I was talking about. You explain perfectly what I see. I couldn't explain how increasing the black (BE) improved the shadow detail. You do have to have a corresponding increase then to "brightness" though (I think that's what you're saying as well). It's crazy, but I'll take it.
Jimmy is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off