My plasma days are coming to an end :( - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been a plasma guy for years and have always enjoyed deeper blacks and smoother displays but I fear that may soon come to an end.

My wife and I just purchased a new home and the family room has a two storey cathedral ceiling with a massive floor to ceiling window, so needless to say, there will be way too much light to continue using my G25 display. So I may have to jump camp to the LED/LCD display camp. Since I haven't done much research on displays since I bought my G25 two years ago, I am out of the loop and don't know where to start. I have a few questions.

Have plasmas improved in their anti-glare in the last two years to match that of LED/LCD's?

Have LED/LCD's improved in the last two years to come close to the refresh rates of plasmas?

What would you guys recommend, an LED or LCD?

How are the blacks on LED/LCD's?

Could you recommend a good display for me? (55-60" with a $2000 budget)

Thanks in advance.
Nick
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post #2 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 11:45 AM
 
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Personally, I would tint the windows, because something that high and if there is direct sunlight, it will heat the room up too much, which in turn would cause a heat gain. You can still use a Plasma in that room, but think about having the windows tinted with UV film.
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post #3 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Personally, I would tint the windows, because something that high and if there is direct sunlight, it will heat the room up too much, which in turn would cause a heat gain. You can still use a Plasma in that room, but think about having the windows tinted with UV film.

That's a good suggestion. I never thought about that. But I'll still have a lot of glare I think.
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post #4 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 04:38 PM
 
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Use the proper tint, you won't. We tinted all of our windows for our living room, and not only no glare, it cut down on the air conditioner running as much, due to the house stays cooler through out the day.
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post #5 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 05:06 PM
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My parents on a Panasonic GT30 and in their living room, there are huge windows on both the front and back of the room. Even with window open and sun shining in, the TV is still completely watchable and still bright enough. Knowing the UV filters are even better this year and the sets have a higher brightness, I'd imagine you shouldn't have too much of a issue.
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post #6 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 05:14 PM
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Don't feel bad. Plasmas can be nice, but they are limited in where they can be fully appreciated.

In the space of three years, I've transitioned from an HD RPTV to a (used) Pioneer Plasma, and then to a Passive 3-D LED. They all had their place and time, but the Passive 3-D display is what's happenin' now. Especially in a brighter room.

And frankly, if I watched stuff in a batcave these days, I would eschew plasma in favor of Projection 3-D. Yes -- it's here, it works, it's bright, it's affordable.....
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post #7 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 05:40 PM
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Large amounts of light are going to be a problem for any tv, I'd find a way to control light if you could. Most LED/LCDs worth buying have a gloss screen, which allows it to hold its contrast ratio in light but of course cause glare. Matted LED/LCD screens exist, but usually not in the high end, and you won't have to worry about glare too much but by diffusing the light across the whole screen you lose massive amounts of picture quality.

The new 2012 panasonic plasmas (ST series and above at least) do have fantastic filters which really cut down on glare though.
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post #8 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 06:13 PM
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Most LEDs look like mirrors this year.

I suggest trying this year's Panny in your new space. I can't say just yet exactly what it will look like since mine doesn't get here until Thursday. It's going in our den that has 3 windows off to the side and the tv faces the kitchen. I too have a G25 but it sits in our living room where there is less light that can strike the screen.

Oh and the 60ST50 is replacing a 2010 52LD550. It has not only glare but also bad off axis views; LG didn't put an IPS in the 52". I'm moving that to the master bedroom or maybe my office.

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post #9 of 72 Old 04-15-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbmannc View Post

Large amounts of light are going to be a problem for any tv, I'd find a way to control light if you could. Most LED/LCDs worth buying have a gloss screen, which allows it to hold its contrast ratio in light but of course cause glare. Matted LED/LCD screens exist, but usually not in the high end, and you won't have to worry about glare too much but by diffusing the light across the whole screen you lose massive amounts of picture quality.

The new 2012 panasonic plasmas (ST series and above at least) do have fantastic filters which really cut down on glare though.

I just got an Panasonic ST50, and tomorrow I'm going to mount it in my living room, which has two large windows directly facing the plasma. I use to have a Pioneer KRP-500M there, and the light was pretty annoying. It also ruined the display's black levels. However, I have turned the ST50 on, and I noticed the the filter blocks an enormous amount of light from above. I'm not sure if it blocks much light from the front though, but I'll report back my results tomorrow.
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post #10 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

I just got an Panasonic ST50, and tomorrow I'm going to mount it in my living room, which has two large windows directly facing the plasma. I use to have a Pioneer KRP-500M there, and the light was pretty annoying. It also ruined the display's black levels. However, I have turned the ST50 on, and I noticed the the filter blocks an enormous amount of light from above. I'm not sure if it blocks much light from the front though, but I'll report back my results tomorrow.

What do you mean it ruined the display's black levels? Does direct sunlight ruin all display's black levels?
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post #11 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 06:52 AM
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Well, uh.... yeah. Especially reflective displays like glass screenfaces and projection screens.

My mom has a sunlit beach off to the side of her TV. Daytime RPTV was more like listening to the radio. Plasma would be not much better -- the one in my house gets pretty milky in the afternoon, even through drapes. But her 55" LED is better than watchable during the day. With the backlight cranked down at night, it's pretty good then too.
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post #12 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Most LEDs look like mirrors this year.

This is true. The days are gone when all LCDs were matte. For example, I've seen LG "LEDs" that were a lot more reflective than Panasonic's current ST/GT/VT range.
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post #13 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 07:11 AM
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If you have double glazed (double pane) windows, I suggest looking into solar screens rather than tinting. I'm not an expert, but when I replaced the windows in my last house, the window manufacturer told me that applying solar film on the inside pane will cause the heat to be reflected back into the space between the two panes, and can cause warping of the window frames. They said solar screens are perfectly acceptable, as they reduce the light and heat before it reaches the glass.

The ST50 will still reflect light when it comes from directly in front of the TV. Ironically it is not as bad as my older Samsung LNT4671f LCD.
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post #14 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmm, lots of good info here guys. So I take it that solar panels are going to be better for the window itself and will reduce glare. With solar panels in place, would the direct sunlight still degrade the black levels and will I be able to watch the display during the day?

The home is a south facing home if that helps.
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post #15 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 07:39 AM
 
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Use combo of drapes and blinds as needed. I would talk to a local company that specializes in this area and see what they have to say. Using automated blinds or roman type shades along with the UV treatment, will do a lot in fixing the problem.

Our main problem area was the South side windows in our living room, along with the West windows in the Kitchen, that during the evening Sun movement, you would get a glare out of the window over the sink. Once we placed the UV treatment over that window, the glare was gone. Still get decent light, but nothing like before.
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post #16 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post

I've been a plasma guy for years and have always enjoyed deeper blacks and smoother displays but I fear that may soon come to an end.

Well maybe not . . . . .


Quote:


My wife and I just purchased a new home and the family room has a two story cathedral ceiling with a massive floor to ceiling window, so needless to say, there will be way too much light to continue using my G25 display. So I may have to jump camp to the LED/LCD display camp. Since I haven't done much research on displays since I bought my G25 two years ago, I am out of the loop and don't know where to start.

Before you rush out and buy anything, i would recommend that you continue to use your existing G25 in your new family room and see how it handles the room, and also to give yourself some time to get used to it in it's new environment. This will give you a baseline of it's AR Filter's effectiveness in that room that you can compare to the newer LCD and Plasma TVs.

Which direction do those cathedral windows face? North by any chance? That's the best direction since you usually won't get any direct sunlight beaming in. South facing windows can be pretty bad during the day since the sun will usually beam into the room and light everything up.

An overly bright room is a challenging environment for any type of TV for varying reasons.


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Have plasmas improved in their anti-glare in the last two years to match that of LED/LCD's?

Yes. Panasonic (and Samsung) have improved their AR Filters in 2011 compared to 2010, and this year Panasonic's new 2012 models' AR Filters are improved even more over last year. I've only checked one new Samsung and it's AR Filter seemed about the same as last year's (which is good) but i didn't spend much time with it. The ST50 nearby had a better filter. The AR Louver Filter on the Panasonics does a good job of muting reflections and also does a good job rejecting light in a bright room. The new 2012 Panasonic Plasmas are also a lot brighter than the 2011 and 2010 models too and that helps a lot in a bright room.


As noted earlier most current LCDs and LED LCDs now have clear glossy screens that are very reflective, almost like a mirror in order to help give them more depth. Bright content helps overcome the reflectivity, but in dark scenes the TV becomes a mirror. A good LCD or LED LCD is also more expensive than a good Plasma, yet overall picture quality is not as good as a good Plasma.

I recommend you go to some stores and check out the reflectivity on the specific LCD and Plasma candidates on dark and bright content and see how they compare to your G25.


Quote:


Have LED/LCD's improved in the last two years to come close to the refresh rates of plasmas?

They've improved, but Plasma still beats them all in almost all categories.


Quote:


What would you guys recommend, an LED or LCD?

Well LED is LCD - they have the same LCD panel but one use LEDs to illuminate the panel. But i rarely ever recommend an LCD or LED LCD over a good Plasma.


Quote:


How are the blacks on LED/LCD's?

Nowhere near as good as the blacks on the 2012 Panasonic Plasmas.


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Could you recommend a good display for me? (55-60" with a $2000 budget)

Panasonic ST50 series at least, or GT50 series if it's extra features and narrower upscale bezel design appeals to you.

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post #17 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Use the proper tint, you won't. We tinted all of our windows for our living room, and not only no glare, it cut down on the air conditioner running as much, due to the house stays cooler through out the day.

Interesting. I have a Plasma and the room gets to over 35C even with the air-con on ! I'm going to do some research on these tints for windows now - thanks.
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post #18 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 09:36 AM
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I have an ST50 mounted with a west facing window behind it and a south window on it's right side with blinds. It does get some wash out and reflections but it is not unviewable. Just like everything in tv's if you look you will find it.

I also have a 55" LG LHX full backlit TV that had a matte screen and is quite good at handling reflections and can get searingly bright when in full torch mode. PQ is quite good as well, far better than 99% of other LED/LCD out there.

There are options to handle your situation as has been suggested in the thread. I would look into window treatments before spending a bunch of cash, after of course some time to assess how bad it is.

G'luck
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post #19 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 09:39 AM
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Before I ended up buying my Samsung plasma, I looked at the Sharp 735U 70" LED. I specifically looked at this one because it is one of the few LED's that has a matte screen. Reflections were a bit muted compared to the plasma I bought but they were still there. Why don't you take a look at this one?

Make sure you get the 2011 model though, I belive the 2012 Sharp's have switched to a glossy screen.

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post #20 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 09:52 AM
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Want to seriously consider buying a new st50 Panasonic, but reading all these threads about calibrations and break in periods is starting to give me doubts. I'm all about having the right settings and breaking in new tvs, but some of this stuff is sounding too time consuming. I feel like if I don't follow all the calibration steps I won't get the most of the tv and it will be a waste of money.

Can someone ease my doubts about buying a plasma?
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post #21 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 09:56 AM
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The break-in procedure is only applicable if you want to use the calibration settings that apply to post-break-in. I wouldn't sweat it if you don't feel like running slides for 100 hours. I did not, and I am extremely happy with my ST50. Either use the pre-slides settings, or use a WOW disc or something similar and set it yourself. All the burn-in stuff only applies if you want to squeeze every last little bit out of your TV without paying for professional calibration. And honestly, if you care that much, just get the calibration done no matter what TV you buy.
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post #22 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 10:38 AM
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My plasma days are about to begin it looks like.
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post #23 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot Randy and all the others who have chimed in. The information in this thread is giving me hope that I can still enjoy my plasma in the bright room.

To answer your question Randy, the home is south facing with the family room being in the rear of the home, resulting in the cathedral windows north facing. I'm glad that there will be no direct sunlight coming through.

We move in to the home in July so I will try my G25 for now, but I'm sure I will end up upgrading to a GT50 soon after or a GT60? in the spring.

Can anyone breifly tell me the improvements of the ST and GT series over last year? I'm sure there is a long thread about this already, but the Coles notes would be sufficient for now.

Once again, thanks a lot guys.
Nick
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post #24 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:13 AM
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Here's your 2012 Panasonic lineup long thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1386141

2012 vs. 2011
ST and GT have essentially the same panel as the VT last year.
VT may have an even blacker panel
ST/GT/VT have improved glare reduction
GT and VT have a dual core processor for the Internet menus
VT has new design - single pane of glass.
ST is the 2012 bargain
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post #25 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:16 AM
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'plasma days are coming to an end' would be a more appropriate title...within the next few years that is
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post #26 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:17 AM
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I heard that 5 years ago.
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post #27 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

'plasma days are coming to an end' would be a more appropriate title...within the next few years that is

From all the research I've been doing, no.
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post #28 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Here's your 2012 Panasonic lineup long thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1386141

2012 vs. 2011
ST and GT have essentially the same panel as the VT last year.
VT may have an even blacker panel
ST/GT/VT have improved glare reduction
GT and VT have a dual core processor for the Internet menus
VT has new design - single pane of glass.
ST is the 2012 bargain

Looks like I'm getting the st50. Question is should I get the 55 or 50?
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post #29 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:26 AM
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Bigger is better. I got the 60, although I love it I maybe should have gotten the 65". I went in to get the 50, realized the 55 wasn't that much bigger, went 60. I sit between 9' and 10' away, the 65 would have been nice. Guess it just depends on what you want.
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post #30 of 72 Old 04-16-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Bigger is better. I got the 60, although I love it I maybe should have gotten the 65". I went in to get the 50, realized the 55 wasn't that much bigger, went 60. I sit between 9' and 10' away, the 65 would have been nice. Guess it just depends on what you want.

Money wise, wife would not approve of 60. 55 would meet my budget requirements. But will probably wait until summer to see if prices come down.
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