Official Panasonic UT50 Series Discussion Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 08:43 AM
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thanks richB, i had tried that already, it appears it's just a limitation of the set. As noted in the cnet review.
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post #362 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boushh2187 View Post


Someone posted a picture and a video with gaming content on Best Buy's 50" UT50 review section. Most recent post.

Thanks for the heads up.
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post #363 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 01:35 PM
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By now you've read my list of reasons why the lack of such an aggressive filter is a good thing. Well here's a couple more caveats of the VT50 recently discovered (despite king of hdtv)...

Here's a quote from today's post in the VT50 thread by Tempest261-

"Turns out that the VT50's 10pt calibration system is more or less broken, and will not be fixed, according to AVJ over at HDJ. So if you're planning on a VT for this feature, take another look at the GT or ST.

The problem is that the 10pt system allows you to calibrate for those discrete 10 points only, and those settings don't influence the rest of the gradation curve. So all of those dead-on calibration result graphs that you're seeing don't mean much- they need to increase the sample size to at least 20 pts... Then you'll likely see a jagged mess."


Now let me remind you there's a 2pt white balance that can be adjusted within the service menu. So we essentially have ST performance, and yeah the Pro Settings of the ST is unnecessary since the best settings are built in the UT by default. In other words there is no brightness or black limiter/raiser, and gamma is where it needs to be (2.2). As it turns out.. our tvs (including sm tweaks) may be all that's necessary.

Another problem is undefeated edge enhancement. Oh this is real. If you put a sharpness pattern on the VT50 and lower sharpness to 0, the result is still white outlines next to actual black lines. How disgraceful is that? Literally black piano keys will have an outline that DOES NOT go away with every option turned off and sharpness at 0.<--wanted to repeat myself. In comparison to the UT those outlines go away at a sharpness setting of around 20. 0 is literally perfect on our sets and as it is now a far cry from the mess of the VT50.

If you've followed my posts I've said it all along that I felt personally everything was backwards this year. Originally I felt that blacks appeared darker on my UT versus ST.. and now from all reports VT has no better MLL than ST. So it's literally a wash across the board. If anything the UT will look the 'snappiest' of them all properly adjusted. Yeah, I make this claim even spite the 'superior' 10pt calibration system and 'superior' filter.

I've had multiple Panasonic plasmas in my house over the years, 2 Kuros, a couple local dimming displays, and have seen different VT50 displays that have shown me very little. If your having problems dialing in UT50's color or contrast then it's user error or software not the display. A simple $30 Disney Wow disk is what the UT craves and is perfectly designed for. I'll bet money at this point that a properly set up 60UT50 in a dark room will stun any Kuro owner.
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post #364 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

By now you've read my list of reasons why the lack of such an aggressive filter is a good thing. Well here's a couple more caveats of the VT50 recently discovered (despite king of hdtv)...

Here's a quote from today's post in the VT50 thread by Tempest261-

"Turns out that the VT50's 10pt calibration system is more or less broken, and will not be fixed, according to AVJ over at HDJ. So if you're planning on a VT for this feature, take another look at the GT or ST.

The problem is that the 10pt system allows you to calibrate for those discrete 10 points only, and those settings don't influence the rest of the gradation curve. So all of those dead-on calibration result graphs that you're seeing don't mean much- they need to increase the sample size to at least 20 pts... Then you'll likely see a jagged mess."


Now let me remind you that you can further improve color within the service menu. So we essentially have ST performance, and yeah the Pro Settings of the ST is unnecessary since the best settings are built in the UT by default. In other words there is no brightness or black limiter/raiser, and gamma is where it needs to be (2.2). But don't you go tellin' ST-VT owners or they'll shoot you down as being unworthy with no custom controls. As it turns out.. our tvs (including sm tweaks) may be all that's necessary.

Another problem is undefeated edge enhancement. Oh this is real. If you put a sharpness pattern on the VT50 and lower sharpness to 0, the result is still white outlines next to actual black lines. How disgraceful is that? Literally black piano keys will have an outline that DOES NOT go away with every option turned off and sharpness at 0.<--wanted to repeat myself. In comparison to the UT those outlines go away at a sharpness setting of around 20. 0 is literally perfect on our sets and as it is now a far cry from the mess of the VT50.

If you've followed my posts I've said it all along that I felt personally everything was backwards this year. Originally I felt that blacks appeared darker on my UT versus ST.. and now from all reports VT has no better MLL than ST. So it's literally a wash across the board. If anything the UT will look the 'snappiest' of them all properly adjusted. Yeah, I make this claim even spite the 'superior' 10pt calibration system and 'superior' filter.

I've had multiple Panasonic plasmas in my house over the years, 2 Kuros, a couple local dimming displays, and have seen different VT50 displays that have shown me very little. If your having problems dialing in UT50's color or contrast then it's user error or software not the display. A simple $30 Disney Wow disk is what the UT craves and is perfectly designed for. I'll bet money at this point that a properly set up 60UT50 in a dark room will stun any Kuro owner.

Wow awful lot of venom in that post

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post #365 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 01:52 PM
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I believe you. But I'm kinda sceptical UT50 can provide an accurate picture. What options do users have to calibrate the picture?
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post #366 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Wow awful lot of venom in that post

Perhaps I could tone it down. But like the cyan issue with the Elites, if it doesn't get fixed then no buy from me and why not let your voice be heard? If someone can refute then I'll gladly remove my posts.

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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

I believe you. But I'm kinda sceptical UT50 can provide an accurate picture. What options do users have to calibrate the picture?

It's okay to be skeptical. This is, after all, Panasonic's low end offering. The picture control menu is identical to the ST50 minus Pro Settings. In addition, a 2pt white balance that can be adjusted in the service menu confirmed by D-Nice here.

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Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Test crosstalk and post your results!

Will do tonight.
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post #367 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

Perhaps I could tone it down. But like the cyan issue with the Elites, if it doesn't get fixed then no buy from me and why not let your voice be heard? If someone can refute then I'll gladly remove my posts.



It's okay to be skeptical. This is, after all, Panasonic's low end offering. The picture control menu is identical to the ST50 minus Pro Settings. In addition, a 2pt white balance that can be adjusted in the service menu confirmed by D-Nice here.



Will do tonight.

You're certainly entitled to your opinions, my understanding is that the 10 pt problem is restricted to auto cal maybe I am wrong there. Undefeatable edge enhancement might be an issue for some. I know that you prefer the "non ar filter" look but I believe that is subjective. I know that Chad got some outstanding cal results when he reviewed the VT50 and aside from the auto cal issue he seemed quite impressed. I also know DNice has the VT50 at the top of his list after the recent HDTV shootout, I respect both Chad and DNices opinions.

As far as two point controls yes SM and custom 2 point accomplish the same goal, I would submit the custom controls are a little more user friendly since they are not in hex format. The service menu can be problematic for users to navigate if they havent done it before. But regardless that is all calibration talk.

I am sure the UT50 produces an outstanding picture, but greyscale wise I am sure it has inaccuracies just like all Panasonics tend to have. Without measuring it with a meter and software you have no way of knowing what those inaccuracies are. Not saying the picture isnt good out of the box but traditionally tvs are not good out of the box. Yes a calibration disc can get you most of the way there, but not all the way to a properly calibrated picture, that can only be accomplished either diy or with pro calibration.

As far as the VT50 snobbery you allude to I find that a little ironic coming from a Kuro owner since some NOT ALL kuro owners have been guilty of the same thing on this forum for years. Anyway I hope we could agree Panasonic hit a homerun with their entire plasma line this year ? The gap between model lines is probably smaller than it has ever been. For me I leave it up to individual preferences on which model to choose.

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post #368 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 03:11 PM
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I wish someone would get into the sm and do a full calibration as I'd like to try those settings,just as I did on my g10 using d-nice's. As for the VT, I couldn't imagine it being that much better if at all. My UT50 looks stunning using pathofneo's settings. I love my set more everyday.
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post #369 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

As far as the VT50 snobbery you allude to I find that a little ironic coming from a Kuro owner since some NOT ALL kuro owners have been guilty of the same thing on this forum for years.

Absolutely. I won't deny the attitude from some of the Kuro owners, me included. This time around I'm trying my best to be as bias free as possible.

My thought today is that the 9G Kuro still stands as the reference, which is why I won't part with it and use it to measure everything. My reference used to be a 34XBR960 and would still be in cases but the industry has switched to flat panels and so have I. Arrogantly, the Kuro has trained my eye over the years to the point where I recognize shortcomings that probably shouldn't matter and isn't worth bringing to attention in fear of running off legitimate customers. But some things (until fixed) need to be brought into light >IMO<. The UT50 so far has shown me to be the least of the evils for 2012 (sometimes less is more), but I'll agree that Panny has accomplished a lot this year and if you have the means to do a full scale calibration then the GT/VT should suit you.

I'll always take full responsibility for false claims, or make any corrections that need be. The last thing I want to do is misconceive the public.
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post #370 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

Absolutely. I won't deny the attitude from some of the Kuro owners, me included. But this time around I'm trying my best to be as bias free as possible and if anything hoping someone out there can see you don't need the biggest and baddest thing out there to have a wonderful experience.

But it's all opinion and everyone has one. Oh well I'm here now on the UT50 board and I'll continue to call it like I see it. I'll do my best to keep to up to date and provide support however I can here.

Fair enough

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post #371 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 03:59 PM
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I've calibrated several TV's with the spears and munsil disk, it's a superb calibration disk. Im sure every bit as good or better then the Disney "WOW" disk. There is no user error, the TV has white balance issues as noted by professional calibrators in the Cnet review. perhaps your "Wow" disk does not have enough white bars for you to see the white blow out.. S&M has over 30 bars.

they make several comments in the cnet review, on multiple occasions, noting the white balance issue. Don't try to pretend it's not there. It may no be a big deal at all in practical, real world use, but it definately shows up on a detailed white balance graph.
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post #372 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Elderblaze View Post

I've calibrated several TV's with the spears and munsil disk, it's a superb calibration disk. Im sure every bit as good or better then the Disney "WOW" disk. There is no user error, the TV has white balance issues as noted by professional calibrators in the Cnet review. perhaps your "Wow" disk does not have enough white bars for you to see the white blow out.. S&M has over 30 bars.

they make several comments in the cnet review, on multiple occasions, noting the white balance issue. Don't try to pretend it's not there. It may no be a big deal at all in practical, real world use, but it definately shows up on a detailed white balance graph.

Most of what you're stating brings us right back to the same conclusion and that is the wb issues can most probably be fixed with a pro calibration via the service menu of which CNET did not do? They tested and made adjustments just as an average end user would do.
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post #373 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DeWesp View Post

Thanks alot, I appreciate that. Here http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/3601/gt50s.jpg is an example of what I am seeing. This is GT50 but the problem is the same on my ST50. I also have a few more bands than what is shown on this picture.

I did not see any reports of this banding in "official" reviews. Not on CNET, not on avforums et cetera. Some users made reports on this issue however. I am very keen on this subject cause i watch alot of football (soccer) and turned down LED-tvs for this matter. I already made an appointment with my dealer to send a technician to look at the problem. But i would still like to know whether I am just to picky or that it should be considerd a fault (which I think).


I have the same problem on my UT50, it can only be seen on light colored screens but none the less it is there.
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post #374 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elderblaze View Post

I've calibrated several TV's with the spears and munsil disk, it's a superb calibration disk. Im sure every bit as good or better then the Disney "WOW" disk. There is no user error, the TV has white balance issues as noted by professional calibrators in the Cnet review. perhaps your "Wow" disk does not have enough white bars for you to see the white blow out.. S&M has over 30 bars.

10-4. I'll have to pick up a copy of Spears & Munsil to see what your talking about. The next step naturally would be to perform a calibration through service menu.
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post #375 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 06:07 PM
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Can anybdoy answer the question of does this tv really need to watched in a dark room all the time for the picture not to really degrade?
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post #376 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by smackjack22 View Post

Can anybdoy answer the question of does this tv really need to watched in a dark room all the time for the picture not to really degrade?

I must have missed your post. This tv like any other plasma with not a good filter needs blinds in a bright room. It looks like a black mirror and there's no other way to describe it. It's worse than my Kuro (which I thought reflects much).

Having said that, it's no worse than Samsung LCDs with glossy panels. The fact that plasmas are brighter this year means they perform better in daylight conditions. Catch 22 is that really only applies to ST-up with the filters. This is something you really need to see for yourself in the store to draw a conclusion since everyone will have a different opinion. I personally don't watch during the day so my word holds no merit.

Maybe someone else that watches in a lit room can chime in?
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post #377 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PathofNeo View Post

I must have missed your post. This tv like any other plasma with not a good filter needs blinds in a bright room. It looks like a black mirror and there's no other way to describe it. It's worse than my Kuro (which I thought reflects much).

Having said that, it's no worse than Samsung LCDs with glossy panels. The fact that plasmas are brighter this year means they perform better in daylight conditions. Catch 22 is that really only applies to ST-up with the filters. This is something you really need to see for yourself in the store to draw a conclusion since everyone will have a different opinion. I personally don't watch during the day so my word holds no merit.

Maybe someone else that watches in a lit room can chime in?

I already have see post #340 page 12 again I have no complaints watching in the daytime with the shades up my tv is wall mounted with 2 windows to the left and the sun shines in the room for a good part of the morning and afternoon but does not shine directly on the tv.
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post #378 of 2597 Old 05-22-2012, 11:49 PM
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kind of a silly, pointless question but I'm askin' it anyway: CNET said the UT50 is better than the ST30! is this true? (obviously not in a bright room) if so, this would be quite a feat...

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post #379 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by William_D View Post

kind of a silly, pointless question but I'm askin' it anyway: CNET said the UT50 is better than the ST30! is this true? (obviously not in a bright room) if so, this would be quite a feat...

Have you read through this thread?
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post #380 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by William_D View Post

kind of a silly, pointless question but I'm askin' it anyway: CNET said the UT50 is better than the ST30! is this true? (obviously not in a bright room) if so, this would be quite a feat...

It's the same panel and tech as the ST50,GT50,VT50, minus the Louvre filter and pro menu,but can still be calibrated via the service menu.So yes it's better in a light controlled environment and it takes quite a bit of light to affect it. Mine is in my bedroom and my normal ceiling lighting doesn't affect it much at all.This is the best TV I've ever owned and indeed looks better than all of last years line if you ask me. I have yet to see all of this years models though.
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post #381 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sonyxbr1980 View Post

I have the same problem on my UT50, it can only be seen on light colored screens but none the less it is there.

This is a common plasma trait. I could be wrong, but panasonic seems really good at producing the banding.
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post #382 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 02:47 AM
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hi all!

new member so this is my first post!

been trawling these threads for years now and have just bought myself a nice new 50ut50 (UK model)! first off, what a fantastic tv!! my last tv was a 3 yr old panasonic and have got to say the new ut50 is amazing. the colours, picture and its abiliity to play anything i've thrown at it (usb so far) is incredible. Maybe im just very behind, but ive been like a child on Christmas day the past few days!

so now thats out of the way, I have been running in the plasma the past few days, and have noticed that the menu options and wording are completely different to the US ones. Simple things like motion smoother is called something different.

so with that in mind, i was trying to setup with Neo's calibration on the 1st page but cant access some of the options. am i right in assuming that these are in the service menu? if so, can someone provide a way to get into it? Im aware about the warranty issue...

also, a minor gripe, but when changing brightness/colour etc... is it me, or is there no numerical value when changing? so its just one long bar and im supposed to gauge the value?!

sorry for the million questions! want to get the most out of my plasma!
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post #383 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 07:21 AM
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I can't decide what to get . The 55 ut50 or the 55st50. I can control light in my living room but not sure it will enough to get good viewing during daytime. I have blinds and curtains and the sun does not hit it directly. Should I spend about 500 dollars more for St50 or get the more affordable ut50 which just dropped in price at amazon.
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post #384 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yongy View Post

.... just bought myself a nice new 50ut50 (UK model)..... I have been running in the plasma the past few days, and have noticed that the menu options and wording are completely different to the US ones. Simple things like motion smoother is called something different.

so with that in mind, i was trying to setup with Neo's calibration on the 1st page but cant access some of the options. am i right in assuming that these are in the service menu? if so, can someone provide a way to get into it? Im aware about the warranty issue...

also, a minor gripe, but when changing brightness/colour etc... is it me, or is there no numerical value when changing? so its just one long bar and im supposed to gauge the value?

The UK/Euro/Asian versions have completely different settings menus than the North American models we discuss here so any settings or calibrations you read about here won't pertain to any non-North American models, and there's no way to get them to work on your TV. The teams that designs the software and menus and user interfaces etc on the NA models are completely separate from the global teams that handle other continents. Why they leave out the numbers on the settings bars baffles me.

In case you're not aware of it, there is an excellent UK based Plasma forum at AVForums that will have much more useful info on your UK model: http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/

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post #385 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Barana2080 View Post

I can't decide what to get . The 55 ut50 or the 55st50. I can control light in my living room but not sure it will enough to get good viewing during daytime. I have blinds and curtains and the sun does not hit it directly. Should I spend about 500 dollars more for St50 or get the more affordable ut50 which just dropped in price at amazon.

Save yourself the $$ and get the ut especially where you have blinds and curtains and no direct sunlight you will be amazed at the quality of the picture this set has to offer.
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post #386 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 08:16 AM
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Save yourself the $$ and get the ut especially where you have blinds and curtains and no direct sunlight you will be amazed at the quality of the picture this set has to offer.

Will the filter make that much difference in a controlled environment?
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post #387 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

The UK/Euro/Asian versions have completely different settings menus than the North American models we discuss here so any settings or calibrations you read about here won't pertain to any non-North American models, and there's no way to get them to work on your TV. The teams that designs the software and menus and user interfaces etc on the NA models are completely separate from the global teams that handle other continents. Why they leave out the numbers on the settings bars baffles me.

In case you're not aware of it, there is an excellent UK based Plasma forum at AVForums that will have much more useful info on your UK model:

Many thanks Randy,

ah thats a shame! strange how they have different menu's around the world, would think that they're R&D/software teams will save much more money if they were universal! haha!

so, having researched about the UT50 am i right in saying that nothing can be changed via the service menu (if indeed u can in the first place?).

yes, i am a member of the UK one but unfortunately no one has gone into as much detail as you guys have in the US!
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post #388 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 08:25 AM
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Will the filter make that much difference in a controlled environment?

With a lighting controlled environment, the UT50 is the best one to get because it lacks the filter.
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post #389 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 08:48 AM
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With a lighting controlled environment, the UT50 is the best one to get because it lacks the filter.

Interesting.
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post #390 of 2597 Old 05-23-2012, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by quigonjosh View Post

with a lighting controlled environment, the ut50 is the best one to get because it lacks the filter.

+1
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