Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 175 - AVS Forum
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post #5221 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

I got noticeably better results with a spectroradiometer like an i1 Pro compared to my still very new i1 display pro. I would argue that your money is best spent on a used i1 pro, at a minimum. I think D-Nice might have one still for sale...

Ditto here. I just had my i1 Pro re certified and I get better results with it than the Display Pro that is profiled to the i1 Pro.

Mike

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post #5222 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Richr 13 View Post

I dropped cable about 6 months ago and have not missed it at all, but then I am not a fan of network TV or sports.

Glad that works for you, seriously.
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

No, you're not stupid. Just ignorant of what's possible with a Roku/AppleTV/etc.

I am not even mildly ignorant. I'd be happy to tell you exactly what's available on all of those and how it utterly fails to deliver what I pay DirecTV for.
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Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Ignorance is abundant as of late. There are no grouping of streaming services that would accommodate many of our wants in terms of content that we may like to view, regardless of your opinion as to what is considered "good" content.

Yup
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But once the old "people" finally die (40 is coming up for me), you will be able to make the world a better but limited content streaming only world.

Many channels millions of people enjoy cannot possibly survive in anything resembling their current form in an "a la carte" world. They only exist economically in a world with cable/satellite bundles, which are currently taken by about 90% of U.S. households, by the way. All us ignoramuses.
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.
I have an idea, let's actually respect other forum members choices and share ideas instead.

Too smart of an idea. smile.gif
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You know, you get over 100 channels and yet it seems like nothing good is on to watch from time to time.

Hence my reliance on my 3 DVRs and storage of much content, a lot of which is long gone from "on demand" or was never there.
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

And I want to be clear in saying that I didn't intend my comments regarding age to be offensive- it's just an observation of trends that I see. There are definitely exceptions to the rule, including my own grandfather. He's in his late 80's and cut the cord a while ago, and streams more content with more exotic setups than I could ever dream of. Take a retired engineer, and add tons of time + curiosity, and the results can be impressive smile.gif.

I'm older than you, yet I'm sure I can match you in tech savvy and gadget knowledge. Please note, this isn't a pissing contest; I didn't say exceed. It's absolutely true there are a group of 20-somethings -- especially those without much money -- who are getting used to never subscribing to cable. That matters a lot in the long run to the economics of cable.
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

You can of course pay a huge premium to watch shows on premium channels, like Breaking Bad, but that doesn't change the fact that I think you're crazy for throwing money away like that. I.

You're entitled to that opinion. You should also probably stop expressing it here; it just doesn't belong in this conversation.
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Wow this place has really gone in the crapper.
Now we have members telling us how to spend our money and if we don't spend it the way they think we should then we're "crazy".
This community used to be about people helping people. Now I see so much bigoted, judgmental, and intolerant people telling others how to live their lives.
Supposedly this is AVS Forum. It's about audio visual sciences.

Yeah. Amen.
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Wow, a little hyperbolic don't you think? Topper's feathers tend to get ruffled easily and things tend to spiral out of control. Tons of people were complaining about the quality of their cable signal on the VT50, and I make one comment about how it's difficult for me to understand how you guys pay for something that you complain about so much. Garbage in, garbage out.

Complaining about the cable signal? Fair game. Railing on people for how they spend their money? Not fair game. I've often discuss the "AMG Mercedes" buyer here. I've probably made it clear that's not something I'd do. But when I raise that example, I try to do it without judgment. That person (a) has disposable income (b) makes a choice on how to spend it. We should stop telling people those choices are bad unless they are creating a clear social "bad". Me buying satellite is not doing that, so leave me alone, ok?
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Hyperbolic, yes. But the bigoted, judgmental, and intolerant part no. You saying it is difficult to understand has a much different tone than saying you are crazy for....
I have never thought the image on my panel was soft. I do see motion artifacts at times but I am very pleased with the quality of service I have from the cable company.
BTW I would have cut the cord years ago if it weren't for sports. And yes I spend a ton on my cable service.

Amen. Again.
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Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

I don't think a discussion of converting to viewing streaming content only can be complete without a discussion of bandwidth caps. If you don't have them today, you're gonna. And the cost of your internet service has to be factored into the cost of the individual streaming providers....

So, the trend here is actually bullish. not bearish. Today, U-verse sells "capped' service, but not really. It's 250GB + $10 for every additional 50GB per month. There is no known "top cap". (It's also hard to break the cap, even with many hours of streaming. No, really it is. Really.) Comcast is moving from a hard cap of 250GB to the same model as U-verse -- or better. Comcast is likely to wind up with 300GB on most plans, possibly more on faster / more expensive plans. And they are also likely adding the $10 for 50GB (which is being tested now). Rather than cap you, they just want to collect some of the action if you drop cable. Seems fair -- not that I like the cable companies at all. I just wasted 2 hours dealing with Comcast over something minor... Anyway, the trend will allow cord cutting, it's just not going to be completely cost-less. I know some of you think that's unfair and "there ought to be a law" but then, of course, when the government intervenes with some other law you don't like, you complain about that too.
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Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Exactly. Caps are already being implemented and will only continue to become more cost/tier based. As money leaves one industry it gets picked up somewhere else. If you want all the goodies you will have to cough up the dough regardless of the media.

I'm curious what you cord cutters are actually using in terms of bandwidth. Netflix rarely pushes more than 1GB per hour (often less). In months where I don't stream extensively, I have a tough time breaking 50-60GB per month and I work from home and use the internet all day -- really. I could watch 5 hours per day and not come close to capping. Sure, if I use Vudu HDX, that's more bits. Similarly, the 1080p iTunes movies are slightly bigger (although really not a ton bigger). Now, I admit I don't know how other ISPs are doing it and I'm focused on what I do know about AT&T, Comcast and FiOS... but even still.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5223 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

You know, you get over 100 channels and yet it seems like nothing good is on to watch from time to time.

"57 Channels and Nuthin' On" - Bruce Springsteen.
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post #5224 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I am a fanatic of pure PQ. I could care less what brand or tech it is.

If pure PQ is your passion, why do you watch flat panels? CRTs have much better PQ than any plasma or LCD panel?
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post #5225 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by panhead20 View Post

If pure PQ is your passion, why do you watch flat panels? CRTs have much better PQ than any plasma or LCD panel?
Most ppl don't stick with em Cus they want a bigger screen imagine trying to haul a 60"CRT not gonna happen
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post #5226 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by panhead20 View Post

If pure PQ is your passion, why do you watch flat panels? CRTs have much better PQ than any plasma or LCD panel?

Mine is PQ in large size. This is as good as it gets in my budget.
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post #5227 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Complaining about the cable signal? Fair game. Railing on people for how they spend their money? Not fair game. I've often discuss the "AMG Mercedes" buyer here. I've probably made it clear that's not something I'd do. But when I raise that example, I try to do it without judgment. That person (a) has disposable income (b) makes a choice on how to spend it. We should stop telling people those choices are bad unless they are creating a clear social "bad". Me buying satellite is not doing that, so leave me alone, ok?

The "AMG Mercedes" car analogy (which is overused, in my opinion) would only apply if cable actually gave you a better product. With the exception of sports coverage, it doesn't.

I'm cool with saying "whatever floats your boat", but you guys are a tad bit over-sensitive if you jump at someone calling you "crazy" for spending an excessive amount of money on something. Grow some thicker skin- we're talking about HD content for your television here, not a critical life choice. It was meant as an opinion- not a declarative statement of fact. Everyone in this VT50 owners thread is a bit on the "crazy" side when it comes to spending money. If you take comments like that, that personally, I think your world perspective is a tad bit warped (an opinion!).

Calibration Equipment:

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post #5228 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by panhead20 View Post

If pure PQ is your passion, why do you watch flat panels? CRTs have much better PQ than any plasma or LCD panel?

Most traditional CRTs have a warped perspective, and are even less bright compared to plasmas. Plus they're huge and ugly smile.gif.

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post #5229 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I'm curious what you cord cutters are actually using in terms of bandwidth. Netflix rarely pushes more than 1GB per hour (often less). In months where I don't stream extensively, I have a tough time breaking 50-60GB per month and I work from home and use the internet all day -- really. I could watch 5 hours per day and not come close to capping. Sure, if I use Vudu HDX, that's more bits. Similarly, the 1080p iTunes movies are slightly bigger (although really not a ton bigger). Now, I admit I don't know how other ISPs are doing it and I'm focused on what I do know about AT&T, Comcast and FiOS... but even still.

Work, streaming services, and games have put me over 200GB more than a few times. I haven't been under 110GB in a few years now. Heck, Steam just had their annual summer sale, I went over 100GB for a weekend buying games. I finally switched over to Comcast Business for the better upload speeds and no bandwidth cap.

Looky here!
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post #5230 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

The "AMG Mercedes" car analogy (which is overused, in my opinion) would only apply if cable actually gave you a better product. With the exception of sports coverage, it doesn't.
I'm cool with saying "whatever floats your boat", but you guys are a tad bit over-sensitive if you jump at someone calling you "crazy" for spending an excessive amount of money on something. Grow some thicker skin- we're talking about HD content for your television here, not a critical life choice. It was meant as an opinion- not a declarative statement of fact. Everyone in this VT50 owners thread is a bit on the "crazy" side when it comes to spending money. If you take comments like that, that personally, I think your world perspective is a tad bit warped (an opinion!).

I think it was more the 'ignorant old people just don't get it' message you were spinning a tad earlier that upset people, not the crazy part. wink.gif

Looky here!
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post #5231 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by robnix View Post

I think it was more the 'ignorant old people just don't get it' message you were spinning a tad earlier that upset people, not the crazy part. wink.gif

That's not what I meant/said! smile.gif. Again, I've come across more than a couple 80+ year olds who are totally tech savvy.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

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post #5232 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 08:26 PM
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Has anyone read the review here: http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/panasonic-tx-p50vt50b-p50vt50-201204101757.htm

Overall they like it a lot. But one thing that got my attention from the review was that the display can not be adjusted as bright as the ST50:
Quote:
But, Panasonic don’t put forward as strong a case for upgrading to this flagship display as they could have done, because the VT50 series can’t produce as bright an image as the cheaper ST50, when set to its best picture modes – something we really think that the company should address for VT50 owners.
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The [Professional] modes are capped at a peak white brightness of around 82 cd/m2 (when measured with a standard window pattern). By contrast, we were able to get around 130 cd/m2 out of the cheaper ST50.

They say the Contrast control acts differently on the VT50 vs. ST50.

Thanks for any feedback on this!
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post #5233 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Ditto here. I just had my i1 Pro re certified and I get better results with it than the Display Pro that is profiled to the i1 Pro.

You guys aren't making me feel too good about my i1 Display Pro purchase.

Michael
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post #5234 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 09:02 PM
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You guys aren't making me feel too good about my i1 Display Pro purchase.
Michael

Yeah frown.gif. I was kind of bummed with the results that I got from mine (again, brand new). That said, the resulting picture I got still beat THX, but there was still an inaccurate "tinge" that I could detect. After using the i1 Pro 2, I noticed a much better result.

Next I want to try using the i1 Display Pro again profiled against the i1 Pro 2. I'm surprised to hear what wmwilker said about getting poor results compared to using the i1 Pro 2 natively, so I want to see for myself. The i1 Display Pro is MUCH faster, especially at the low end, compared to the i1 Pro/ i1 Pro 2.

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

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post #5235 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 09:26 PM
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I am heavy on streaming and mange to cap over 200GB a month on my inernet.mad.gif

Panasonic TC-P65VT60
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post #5236 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

That's not what I meant/said! smile.gif. Again, I've come across more than a couple 80+ year olds who are totally tech savvy.

It's ok - I have a few friends that are under 30 myself ;-)

Looky here!
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post #5237 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Yeah frown.gif. I was kind of bummed with the results that I got from mine (again, brand new). That said, the resulting picture I got still beat THX, but there was still an inaccurate "tinge" that I could detect. After using the i1 Pro 2, I noticed a much better result.
Next I want to try using the i1 Display Pro again profiled against the i1 Pro 2. I'm surprised to hear what wmwilker said about getting poor results compared to using the i1 Pro 2 natively, so I want to see for myself. The i1 Display Pro is MUCH faster, especially at the low end, compared to the i1 Pro/ i1 Pro 2.

This is my first go at this, so I think I will be happy if I can beat the THX mode. Plus I will learn a lot. Later on, I could think about upgrading.

Michael
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post #5238 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 10:34 PM
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This has been talked about during the shoot out month. It is only present in the european VT's and not North America. Dave McKenzie voted in favor of the VT winning the shoot out and that is his review
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post #5239 of 13782 Old 08-03-2012, 10:51 PM
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I'm very interested in the topic of paying for cable/satellite vs. streaming. Just a couple of points.

First, I pay for Directv and find that I'm getting a good deal. A little known fact that surprise many people when I tell them is to call and act like you are going to cancel the service because you want to switch to another provider for less money. Play hardball and you will be surprised at how much of a discount your provider will give you to stay.

When it comes to streaming, this is one of those things that will not last in their current form especially once more people adopt it as their main source of viewing, which isn't as much as you may think now. When it does happen, you better believe that these streaming providers will start jacking up the prices. Take Netflix for example. People went nuts and canceled their service when they switched to $10 a month just for streaming. I found it funny because at the time, where else could they go for $10 that had such an abundance of content available at any time?

And since this is the AVS forum, understand that people that visit this site regularly do not come close to representing most of the public. It's safe to assume that most members are pretty tech savvy. As for most of the public, there are many many people that still do not know the possibilities of technology so the idea of the majority of people cutting the cord and going streaming full time will not happen for a long long time.
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post #5240 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

The "AMG Mercedes" car analogy (which is overused, in my opinion) would only apply if cable actually gave you a better product. With the exception of sports coverage, it doesn't.
I'm cool with saying "whatever floats your boat", but you guys are a tad bit over-sensitive if you jump at someone calling you "crazy" for spending an excessive amount of money on something. Grow some thicker skin- we're talking about HD content for your television here, not a critical life choice. It was meant as an opinion- not a declarative statement of fact. Everyone in this VT50 owners thread is a bit on the "crazy" side when it comes to spending money. If you take comments like that, that personally, I think your world perspective is a tad bit warped (an opinion!).

OK, again, stop telling me what I don't get. Cable is clearly a better product for me. I have tens of hours of Food Network on my DVR. I have entire seasons of network TV, including stuff that simply isn't on iTunes, on my DVRs... Your claims are simply not valid -- at all. You may not value what I value (and that's fine). But your statements that cable does not give me a better product are patently false.

And as for the AMG analogy, half of the AMG's around here are owned for the badge. They are never driven fast or hard. It's about prestige and nothing more (yes, I'm sure). And, still, I have no problem with those people paying the premium. It's worth it to them.
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Originally Posted by robnix View Post

Work, streaming services, and games have put me over 200GB more than a few times. I haven't been under 110GB in a few years now. Heck, Steam just had their annual summer sale, I went over 100GB for a weekend buying games. I finally switched over to Comcast Business for the better upload speeds and no bandwidth cap.

Fascinating. I'm surprised you get that high. That said, 200GB is still comfortably below the cap.
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Originally Posted by Famouss View Post

I am heavy on streaming and mange to cap over 200GB a month on my inernet.mad.gif

Also fascinating.
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Originally Posted by restricted3711 View Post

I'm very interested in the topic of paying for cable/satellite vs. streaming. Just a couple of points.
First, I pay for Directv and find that I'm getting a good deal. A little known fact that surprise many people when I tell them is to call and act like you are going to cancel the service because you want to switch to another provider for less money. Play hardball and you will be surprised at how much of a discount your provider will give you to stay.

True enough.
Quote:
When it comes to streaming, this is one of those things that will not last in their current form especially once more people adopt it as their main source of viewing, which isn't as much as you may think now. When it does happen, you better believe that these streaming providers will start jacking up the prices. Take Netflix for example. People went nuts and canceled their service when they switched to $10 a month just for streaming. I found it funny because at the time, where else could they go for $10 that had such an abundance of content available at any time?
And since this is the AVS forum, understand that people that visit this site regularly do not come close to representing most of the public. It's safe to assume that most members are pretty tech savvy. As for most of the public, there are many many people that still do not know the possibilities of technology so the idea of the majority of people cutting the cord and going streaming full time will not happen for a long long time.

There is virtually no actual cord cutting. There really isn't. There are a growing number of "cord nevers" and some very small number of actual cord cutters. Is it a real phenomena? Yes, but an insignificant one.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #5241 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 01:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Fascinating. I'm surprised you get that high. That said, 200GB is still comfortably below the cap.

You must not be much of a gamer then. Just bought another game - 22GB of data to download. It'll be done by the morning.

We've come uncomfortably close to 250GB a few times, went over it once. With streaming services getting better, and game companies heading towards DL only models, bandwidth usage is only going to grow.

Looky here!
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post #5242 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 08:14 AM
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Yeah, I do that. It is quite bad manners. I still think you were overly judgemental, and I find myself oddly and overly protective of Rogo tongue.gif. But I will take my licks for adding C4 to the conversation. My feathers are fully de-ruffled. I would have a beer with ya anytime. We could talk tech smack and hoot it up. wink.gif
I used to own a Jeep and waved at other jeeps. But if you tell anyone, I will flat out deny it.

Fair enough smile.gif

You know Temp, you managed to tick off a lot of people here and I don't know how much longer I can protect you. wink.gif JK I just have a harmless observation to point out.

You do realize that you paid a lot of money for what many would claim was very little value over the GT or an ST for that matter (sightly better blacks and a suspect 96hz mode) . So you decided to pay quite a few Franklins because you did not want to compromise for what most people consider "luxury" additions. You wanted what YOU wanted and you got it because you decided not to settle.

Sound a bit familiar to ya maybe? Sound a little... you know.... crazy? wink.gif

And when you pull out tech knowledge as your pistol, you need to understand what saloon you are in, because you are in a forum where most folks carry a pretty big gun. Any way, just food for thought and no offence intended.

FYI If they had a sports bar near my side of the mountain up here in NH, they may not be to keen on playing a Denver game. wink.gif

Gunga Gulunga..... Gunga Kunga Galunga..... On your deathbed you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me.
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post #5243 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 08:41 AM
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You know Temp, you managed to tick off a lot of people here and I don't know how much longer I can protect you. wink.gif JK I just have a harmless observation to point out.
You do realize that you paid a lot of money for what many would claim was very little value over the GT or an ST for that matter (sightly better blacks and a suspect 96hz mode) . So you decided to pay quite a few Franklins because you did not want to compromise for what most people consider "luxury" additions. You wanted what YOU wanted and you got it because you decided not to settle.
Sound a bit familiar to ya maybe? Sound a little... you know.... crazy? wink.gif

And when you pull out tech knowledge as your pistol, you need to understand what saloon you are in, because you are in a forum where most folks carry a pretty big gun. Any way, just food for thought and no offence intended.
FYI If they had a sports bar near my side of the mountain up here in NH, they may not be to keen on playing a Denver game. wink.gif

If you read up a bit, I DID point out that anyone in the VT50 owners thread is probably a little crazy when it comes to spending money smile.gif. I'm probably actually in the extreme end, as I've recently just purchased an i1 Pro 2. At the same time, there is no way in hell that I would pay what you guys do for cable/satellite television, unless they increase the picture quality and/or the content. If you're cool with what you get out of your cable/satellite box then more power to ya, but if you're on of those in this thread/forum that complain about the quality of cable/satellite... to you, I throw up my arms in amazement as to why you keep paying for that crap.

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post #5244 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 09:03 AM
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post #5245 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 09:16 AM
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I noticed when my tv is first turned on the blacks do a weird flicker almost looks like wavy water. It's only for half a second. My gt50 did the same thing, Im guessing it is the phosphors charging or warming up. Anyone seen this too? My vt30 never did it. And it only does it after the tv has sat over night.
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post #5246 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

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Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

You know Temp, you managed to tick off a lot of people here and I don't know how much longer I can protect you. wink.gif JK I just have a harmless observation to point out.
You do realize that you paid a lot of money for what many would claim was very little value over the GT or an ST for that matter (sightly better blacks and a suspect 96hz mode) . So you decided to pay quite a few Franklins because you did not want to compromise for what most people consider "luxury" additions. You wanted what YOU wanted and you got it because you decided not to settle.
Sound a bit familiar to ya maybe? Sound a little... you know.... crazy? wink.gif

And when you pull out tech knowledge as your pistol, you need to understand what saloon you are in, because you are in a forum where most folks carry a pretty big gun. Any way, just food for thought and no offence intended.
FYI If they had a sports bar near my side of the mountain up here in NH, they may not be to keen on playing a Denver game. wink.gif

If you read up a bit, I DID point out that anyone in the VT50 owners thread is probably a little crazy when it comes to spending money smile.gif. I'm probably actually in the extreme end, as I've recently just purchased an i1 Pro 2. At the same time, there is no way in hell that I would pay what you guys do for cable/satellite television, unless they increase the picture quality and/or the content. If you're cool with what you get out of your cable/satellite box then more power to ya, but if you're on of those in this thread/forum that complain about the quality of cable/satellite... to you, I throw up my arms in amazement as to why you keep paying for that crap.

For the content I watch, my pq is top notch. Its just as good as anything that I stream. You are lumping all cable/sat content as being poor. Out of hundreds of channels there are of course bad ones. Just like there are super bad streaming channels that you have to pay for. Please don't be foolish enough the think that you have some exclusivity to quality content that can't be achieved via satellite. The last time I checked, I have to pay for 1080p movies with every single one of the streaming services that I have. I can pay the same amount for 1080p with sat. And the pq is 100% as good as any streaming service. And to say that content is limited via streaming is a huge under statement. And that claim is easily confirmed by reading the 1000's of online reviews.

There are enough one time fee and subscription based channels via streaming to make the process quite not worthy of my time or tastes. And the end result is heavier management and cost for extremely limited choices.

I could throw my hands up wondering how you can accept limiting you're choices in such a manner only to save $40-50. But I don't think that way. I understand and respect your choice to live with less to save a few bucks.

It just screams hypocrite to somehow validate your spending while chastising others. And that is exactly what you continue to do. We get that you are all about streaming and anti-cable. If you think cable does not have the value to return ratio for you, that is reasonable. To calculate that value for others is, well, I can't think of a non-volatile word so I will leave it at that.

Every show that I have watched and enjoyed is not even available via streaming. And $70 for me is a miniscule portion of my budget and am more than happy with the way I have chosen to spend it. You can respect that or continue to talk down to those like me.

In regards to the discussion of complaints about pq with poor content. I am somewhat with you. But again, these people have clearly demonstrated that the vt50 does not perform as well as other sets in this department. Do we simply dismiss this fact and these members concerns because you do not deem their concerns as being worthy? I don't think so.

Gunga Gulunga..... Gunga Kunga Galunga..... On your deathbed you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me.
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post #5247 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 10:05 AM
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Let's just sum this up. Cutting the cord may be fine for some people. Cable and satellite subscriptions are a lot of money, $10,000 in ten years. I tried cutting the cord myself for over a month just to see if it would work for me. It didn't. Here's why:

1) Most online video quality is far worse than HD on satellite. Dish typically streams 5-7 Mbps of MPEG4 for HD. Online is 1-3 Mbps. I felt like it was a waste to have an HD TV.

2) I was back to watching commercials, which I absolutely dread. It's tons of wasted time, which I have little of.

3) I was having to click on short clips of things, especially news, rather than having the content fed to me.

4) I lost out on college football games without the cable sports channels.

5) I love car shows, and there is virtually none on the net, and what content there is, is really low quality. It's usually just small clips. There is very little Formula 1 racing on OTA, and pretty much no road racing. There are no shows such as Chasing Classic cars, Barrett Jackson, etc.

6) Whenever there is a big national or world calamity, I like having 24 hour news on the cable news channels.

7) I like being able to turn on cable news in the background for a while at any time of day to get up to date, while doing other things.

8) I like being able to turn on the financial channels such as CNBC and Fox Business to get up to date. They do stream Bloomberg, but that channel focuses more on world rather than domestic finance.

9) When the Olympics are on, I get four channels of coverage, so I can watch some of the more obscure events. I can also use my satellite subscription at nbcolympics.com to view online videos.

10) I can use my satellite subscription to watch online content at dishonline.com.

11) I can use my Slingbox to watch content recorded on my DVR while out of town.

12) I like doing other things while watching TV, such as riding my exercise bike, and ironing cloths. Using web content, I had to interrupt that to click on a new clip far too frequently. It just wasn't practical.

In the end, it seemed like cutting the cord can be a good option for people who mainly watch movies and network TV shows, which they can get through Netflix and other sources. Unfortunately, I watch next to no network television anymore, and I only have time to watch a movie or two a month, which I get plenty through my satellite. My viewing is mainly cable TV shows. Plus did I mention, with my DVR I don't have to be bombarded with commercials? biggrin.gif

I'm open to cutting the cord, and will re-evaluate from time to time.

Michael
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post #5248 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 10:16 AM
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If you read up a bit, I DID point out that anyone in the VT50 owners thread is probably a little crazy when it comes to spending money smile.gif. I'm probably actually in the extreme end, as I've recently just purchased an i1 Pro 2. At the same time, there is no way in hell that I would pay what you guys do for cable/satellite television, unless they increase the picture quality and/or the content. If you're cool with what you get out of your cable/satellite box then more power to ya, but if you're on of those in this thread/forum that complain about the quality of cable/satellite... to you, I throw up my arms in amazement as to why you keep paying for that crap.


I feel the same way about Hulu Plus and Netflix.

I also think your views of the future are unrealistic too. You're already paying for viewing, yet you, and your friends, think that cable/satellite will become obsolete, and everyone will be enjoying streaming content to their tvs for free. Really? As I see it HBO Go and online subscriptions services such as Hulu Plus, are the model for the future which will most likely result in people paying, very possibly even more than we do for cable/satellite today, to watch their favorite, mind numbing, "crap" - it's all crap and we are all addicted to our favorite genre/programming. Free internet streaming will never satisfy those of us would have always watched a lot of tv, and prefer to watch current programs vs reruns.

I also think that your judgement of cable/satellite vs internet is ignorant, or at the very least based on ignorance which highlights what seems to be not much more than a self serving bias. Programming is not better and pq often isn't either.

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post #5249 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

Let's just sum this up. Cutting the cord may be fine for some people. Cable and satellite subscriptions are a lot of money, $10,000 in ten years. I tried cutting the cord myself for over a month just to see if it would work for me. It didn't. Here's why:
1) Most online video quality is far worse than HD on satellite. Dish typically streams 5-7 Mbps of MPEG4 for HD. Online is 1-3 Mbps. I felt like it was a waste to have an HD TV.
2) I was back to watching commercials, which I absolutely dread. It's tons of wasted time, which I have little of.
3) I was having to click on short clips of things, especially news, rather than having the content fed to me.
4) I lost out on college football games without the cable sports channels.
5) I love car shows, and there is virtually none on the net, and what content there is, is really low quality. It's usually just small clips. There is very little Formula 1 racing on OTA, and pretty much no road racing. There are no shows such as Chasing Classic cars, Barrett Jackson, etc.
6) Whenever there is a big national or world calamity, I like having 24 hour news on the cable news channels.
7) I like being able to turn on cable news in the background for a while at any time of day to get up to date, while doing other things.
8) I like being able to turn on the financial channels such as CNBC and Fox Business to get up to date. They do stream Bloomberg, but that channel focuses more on world rather than domestic finance.
9) When the Olympics are on, I get four channels of coverage, so I can watch some of the more obscure events. I can also use my satellite subscription at nbcolympics.com to view online videos.
10) I can use my satellite subscription to watch online content at dishonline.com.
11) I can use my Slingbox to watch content recorded on my DVR while out of town.
12) I like doing other things while watching TV, such as riding my exercise bike, and ironing cloths. Using web content, I had to interrupt that to click on a new clip far too frequently. It just wasn't practical.
In the end, it seemed like cutting the cord can be a good option for people who mainly watch movies and network TV shows, which they can get through Netflix and other sources. Unfortunately, I watch next to no network television anymore, and I only have time to watch a movie or two a month, which I get plenty through my satellite. My viewing is mainly cable TV shows. Plus did I mention, with my DVR I don't have to be bombarded with commercials? biggrin.gif
I'm open to cutting the cord, and will re-evaluate from time to time.
Michael

I stepped away from my computer before posting and had yet to see your post. I completely agree. I evaluate cutting the cord often and come to the same conclusions every time. Also, I too love my DVR.

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post #5250 of 13782 Old 08-04-2012, 10:27 AM
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No, you're not stupid. Just ignorant of what's possible with a Roku/AppleTV/etc. The coverage you get with Hulu+, Netflix, and local channels (which we all get if we pay for cable internet) is amazing, and the quality is tangibly *better* than anything that gets pooped out of a cable box, which matters a lot for giant plasmas like the 65" VT50.
Your response wasn't surprising in the least. This is definitely an age/demographics thing. I work in the tech industry, and virtually no-one that I know under the age of 35-40 pays for cable. Everybody has setups involving some sort of on-demand IP-based content. We think you'd be crazy to pay $100+/mo for a crapload of channels, only to have 90% of them be terrible. The broadcast model is dead too- nobody wants to watch anything live anymore, so they become slaves to their DVR. However, ask someone above 40, and they have no idea how we can live without it, despite the rampant price fixing, terrible content/$ ratio and nasty channel packaging practices, and overly-compressed video. They pay for it because it's what they're used to- that's it. It's a business model that will ultimately die with a generation of people. It's already long dead with mine.
Anyway, sorry to go so off-topic. It sort of ties in here with the complaints that the VT50 doesn't handle processing of garbage video well- I predict that with the death of traditional broadcast TV (as we know it), "televisions" as we know them today will die off. Instead, we'll be likely be buying "monitors" that perform virtually zero processing. And I can't wait for this to happen.

I like your post. It is really helpful. Badly worded, but helpful nontheless if one can get past being called "ignorant"... poor choice of words for a forum where we're all trying to be helpful to each other, but as I said, I am still interested in what you have to say, and can definitely learn from you.

I've long been an advocate of eliminating cable in my home. All I watch is TV series from network channels (which I'm certain I can get over the air using rabbit ears) and movies on Bluray Discs (which I get from Netflix). Therefore, I really don't want to continue shedding 70 bucks every month for DirecTV (where I still want to think I have a good deal for 2 HD-DVRs, 1 SD STB, plus HBO and Showtime - I just keep doing what McFly does).

Anyhow,... the reason I still pay for DirecTV is my wife and kids. My wife wants HBO so she can turn the TV on and look for movies that are playing at any given time, and my kids "need" Disney, Nickelodeon, Discovery Kids, and who knows what else... Now, my older (now only 7 years old) is probably ready for the migration to this new world of content over IP. I'm fed up with the constant problems she gets with Netflix over PS3 over WiFi, which I'm certain I can solve with a hard Ethernet line to her PS3 and faster Internet (I only get 2.4 Mbps now for about 30 bucks a month). I wouldn't need faster Internet otherwise.

So, I guess my question is, would you mind further explaining how this would all play out in my case. I am really interested in lowering my overall bills, getting better quality, and more flexibility to watch whenever I want without the need for a DVR.

I've never looked into Hulu in much detail, but has always been under the impression that I would end up paying more if I wanted to watch many different TV series, and even more if my whole family was also doing the same. Also, I have the impression that even my TV, which is hardwired to my ethernet LAN, gets a lower quality feed from Netflix than from DirecTV (image seems less bright, and posterized at times), but this could all be in my imagination.

I'd sincerely would greatly appreciate further details about this world of IP content.
- Feed quality vs DirecTV
- Flexibility to watch any time (e.g., turn TV on and watch the latest episode of my TV series without delay to download something and or getting lower feed quality)
- Overall cost of a setup like this for 3 TVs in the house accessing different content at the same time

Panasonic plasma, 'nuff said.
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