Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Thank you. And I might add that I have switched Motion Smoother to Off for BR play as I noticed a bit too much artifacting. I have also found that contrast seems to be fine anywhere between 80-100. Big range, I know. This setting will vary the most based on personal pref.

What did you use to come up with your numbers?

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post #812 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 07:24 AM
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I'm waiting until after this weekend's Shootout before deciding whether or not to upgrade from my VT30...I remember some defects were discovered during last year's Shootout prep (Sharp Elite's cyan issue), so am waiting to see if anything is discovered this year at the last minute while undergoing the rigorous testing and calibrating
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post #813 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by curiousdude View Post

I wonder if elevation is playing a role when it comes to buzzing. It would be nice if VT50 owners with buzzing or no buzzing post their elevation.

Elevation comes up a lot in buzzing topics but it is irrelevant. Panasonic plasmas have been rated up to 9,200 feet for years and is not a factor when someone has a buzzer.

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post #814 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

What did you use to come up with your numbers?

Simple eyeball after Disney WOW advanced cal.

A quite crude means of calibration but the PQ is quite amazing. Not sure how it could get much better even with a pro cal. Skin tones are much more natural than the VT30 ever was and the blacks are superb right at +54 on the brightness.

Colors are not overly saturated and look quite accurate to my eye.

I watched Warhorse yesterday and the blacks blended with the bezel just like my 5020 did. Regardless of what a meter tells us, I see zero difference in black level performance between the VT50 and and the 5020 e-lite. The pop this set has is sick and the asthetics are smooth like butter.

My history of sets are as follows.

Kuro 5020 E-lite which kicked my samsung LN52 out of the house
65VT30
D7000

The VT50 gives me the warm and fuzzies as an overall package more than any of the above by far.

The only thing that bothered me was the artifacting with Motion Smoother on in any way. Once I turned that off, I was content with the PQ and for me that is saying a hell of a lot. I am known as captain OCD at home.

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post #815 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 08:23 AM
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This is what I imagine would happen if my display where set remotely anywhere near those contrast ranges.



Rather surprised it has not already occurred for you, yet. ;}
Best Regards
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post #816 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Simple eyeball after Disney WOW advanced cal.

A quite crude means of calibration but the PQ is quite amazing. Not sure how it could get much better even with a pro cal. Skin tones are much more natural than the VT30 ever was and the blacks are superb right at +54 on the brightness.

Colors are not overly saturated and look quite accurate to my eye.

I watched Warhorse yesterday and the blacks blended with the bezel just like my 5020 did. Regardless of what a meter tells us, I see zero difference in black level performance between the VT50 and and the 5020 e-lite. The pop this set has is sick and the asthetics are smooth like butter.

My history of sets are as follows

Kuro 5020 E-lite which kicked my samsung LN52 out of the house
65VT30
D7000

The VT50 gives me the warm and fuzzies as an overall package more than any of the above by far.

The only thing that bothered me was the artifacting with Motion Smoother on in any way. Once I turned that off, I was content with the PQ and for me that is saying a hell of a lot. I am known as captain OCD at home.

When you say motion smoother are you referring to the 3D cinema smoother?
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post #817 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

This is what I imagine would happen if my display where set remotely anywhere near those contrast ranges.



Rather surprised it has not already occurred for you, yet. ;}
Best Regards
KvE

I post this so often it's almost like spam, but just another reminder to the new VT50 owners out there: you can very easily calibrate brightness, contrast, color and tint for free using the downloadable/burnable AVS HD709 patterns disc. No equipment is required (or even necessary) for these settings, except color and tint need the use of a blue filter... unless the VT50 menus have a "blue only mode"- can anyone confirm if it has one?

Calibration Equipment:

Meters: X-rite i1 Pro 2, X-rite i1 Display Pro

Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

Televisions:

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 (currently own)
Samsung UN55D8000 (returned) Calibration and Settings Thread

 

Plasma IR Removal:

Post 1 - Post 2 - Post 3

 

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post #818 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

This is what I imagine would happen if my display where set remotely anywhere near those contrast ranges.



Rather surprised it has not already occurred for you, yet. ;}
Best Regards
KvE

I hear you man, but.....

If you read my post fully you would have learned that my burn in occurred using D-Nice settings to include break in followed to a T.
I also said that contrast was a personal pref, although 100 prolly is a bit obnoxious. I have mine now dialed down to 80 with all other posted settings staying the same. I like contrast high and my VT50 shows no hint of IR like my 30 did in the same amount of time. The point is that the VT50 seems far less prone to it than the vt50.

PS I have my gamma set to 2.4 and panel brightness set to mid and AGC to 0.

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post #819 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lghaze42 View Post

When you say motion smoother are you referring to the 3D cinema smoother?

No he is referring to motion smoother I believe it is under advanced settings.
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post #820 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 10:08 AM
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Updated precal settings:

Custom mode
Contrast +80 " be carefull here in the first 100 hours and static images"
Brightness +54
Tint 0
Color +50
Sharpness +50 "yes I like sharpness, call me crazy"
Warm 1
Cats off
VNR off
Block NR off
Mosquito off
Motion smoother Weak or off
Black level light

Pro settings:
Panel brightness Mid
AGC 0
Gamma 2.4

Rest is default


I use HD size 1 for satellite viewing because I greatly prefer it to seeing the crap at the top of the screen on most channels. I go to Size 2 for critical viewing.

These work for me but everyone is different. Also be careful to stay out of the menu playing with settings for too long. My vt30 had the word "Menu" BURNT into it by day three of me screwing around tweaking with contrast at 50.

No hint of IR on the new set

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post #821 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 10:09 AM
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Is it normal for the screen to have a very small "black boarder" around the entire image before hitting the bezel. I have tried changing all the overscan settings I can think over and it still shows up (even on initial setup).
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post #822 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsniper View Post

Is it normal for the screen to have a very small "black boarder" around the entire image before hitting the bezel. I have tried changing all the overscan settings I can think over and it still shows up (even on initial setup).

Not quite what I am talking about. Without the 95% over scan you can get a portion of garbage data at the top of the screen that consists of white lines and such.

Overscan resolves this issue fully when viewing sat or cable content but is not needed for true or quality HD content ie... BR material.

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post #823 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Not quite what I am talking about. Without the 95% over scan you can get a portion of garbage data at the top of the screen that consists of white lines and such.

Overscan resolves this issue fully when viewing sat or cable content but is not needed for true or quality HD content ie... BR material.

What I am seeing is clearly not overscan (I have seen the garbage info on my projector) but is present on my new VT50 set. I read on another forum (AVforum) that this is normal for all Panasonic plasmas. However, I wanted those AVSers to chime in.
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post #824 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Updated precal settings:

Custom mode
Contrast +80 " be carefull here in the first 100 hours and static images"
Brightness +54
Tint 0
Color +50
Sharpness +50 "yes I like sharpness, call me crazy"
Warm 1
Cats off
VNR off
Block NR off
Mosquito off
Motion smoother Weak or off
Black level light

Pro settings:
Panel brightness Mid
AGC 0
Gamma 2.4

Rest is default


I use HD size 1 for satellite viewing because I greatly prefer it to seeing the crap at the top of the screen on most channels. I go to Size 2 for critical viewing.

These work for me but everyone is different. Also be careful to stay out of the menu playing with settings for too long. My vt30 had the word "Menu" BURNT into it by day three of me screwing around tweaking with contrast at 50.

No hint of IR on the new set

TopperMcFly, I may take a look at how your numbers look on my set tonight. I ended up setting the gamma to 2.6 (which probably accounts for my brightness being higher), but didn't think 2.4 looked bad at all.

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post #825 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 11:01 AM
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post #826 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 11:39 AM
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You do realize that the higher you set the sharpness the more detail you loose.

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post #827 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 11:49 AM
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Any one know what the 1080p pure direct mode (4:4:4) do?
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post #828 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dponeill View Post

You do realize that the higher you set the sharpness the more detail you loose.

You couldn't be more correct. 0 is where sharpness needs to be on these sets. Any pattern will tell you that it's unnecessary. The complete 2012 line is perfect at 0.
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post #829 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Chad will be out on Weds. to Calibrate another 65VT50, so he "will" have more updates for his review Weds night he was saying.

Has the issue with the ISF modes been resolved?

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #830 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 01:23 PM
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I am confirmed for my EPP delivery at 12 noon tamale. Bummer that it's also Diablo 3 release day =)

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post #831 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 01:31 PM
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Has the issue with the ISF modes been resolved?

The issue with the isf modes is with the Calman software. They are currently working on a fix. Isf modes can be properly calibrated with ControlCal.

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post #832 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by donnymac51 View Post

The issue with the isf modes is with the Calman software. They are currently working on a fix. Isf modes can be properly calibrated with ControlCal.

In other words, it's not a problem with the TV.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #833 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

Simple eyeball after Disney WOW advanced cal. A quite crude means of calibration but the PQ is quite amazing. Not sure how it could get much better even with a pro cal.

This observation isn't pointed at you personally, but it comes up so often I've just got to point it out. There are vast numbers of folks who have posted the exact same feeling about profession calibration.

On the other hand, I've collected links to a lot of owner's reports about their professional calibrations. (See the link in the signature area at the bottom of my post.) None of the folks who wrote those reports have then made the observation that they didn't see much difference in the results. Some of those owners, writing about their professional calibration, have pointed out that pre-calibration they believed what you stated in the quote above.

Almost all the calibrations reported were done by professionals who are active here at AVS. Maybe that's a select group. I like to think so.

I know for sure that a professional calibration isn't something that everyone would get extra value from. You seem very happy with your results, even your unique take on contrast.

Enjoy.
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post #834 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

This observation isn't pointed at you personally, but it comes up so often I've just got to point it out. There are vast numbers of folks who have posted the exact same feeling about profession calibration.

On the other hand, I've collected links to a lot of owner's reports about their professional calibrations. (See the link in the signature area at the bottom of my post.) None of the folks who wrote those reports have then made the observation that they didn't see much difference in the results. Some of those owners, writing about their professional calibration, have pointed out that pre-calibration they believed what you stated in the quote above.

Almost all the calibrations reported were done by professionals who are active here at AVS. Maybe that's a select group. I like to think so.

I know for sure that a professional calibration isn't something that everyone would get extra value from. You seem very happy with your results, even your unique take on contrast.

Enjoy.

I hear what you are saying. But I can point to several posts where people feel that their picture looked very dull and drap after a pro Cal and felt like they wasted their money and some can't say enough good things. The fact is that there are a ton of people that do not like a calibrated look. They like pop and somewhat over saturated colors. This does not make one person right or wrong. It just means different strokes for different folks.
I am not the only person that feels this way or felt like cinema mode on most sets look like dirt was thrown on the screen. Although I find cinema mode onthe vt50 has more pop than any past plasma I have owned.

I always use D-Nice settings but I always end up jacking up a couple settings because I prefer pop to accuracy. I will never turn someone away from a pro Cal but I will always warn them on what to expect.
I will be the first person to admit that my contrast numbers are high. That is why I stress that the contrast number is the one that may need to be dialed down for personal pref. I stand behind the rest of my numbers though in terms of what is pleasing to my eye and I think others will like them as well.

Regarding sharpness, I will accept what the pros here are saying and I will revisit that aspect. But I can't help but feel the pic goes a hair fuzzy with it at 0. I will take a hard look at that. I really appreciate the input from everyone. I am like the majority here that are just armchair DIY calibrators that just like to share experiences to hopefully learn a few things that may help each other out.

Gunga Gulunga..... Gunga Kunga Galunga..... On your deathbed you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me.
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post #835 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 02:35 PM
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Just my .02 cents but hell u spend 4k on a tv then damn money for a calibration OR 3D glasses should NOT be an issue!!

Why cheap out now?!?!??!
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post #836 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsniper View Post

Is it normal for the screen to have a very small "black boarder" around the entire image before hitting the bezel. I have tried changing all the overscan settings I can think over and it still shows up (even on initial setup).

I can give you an explanation that has been true with other displays in the past. If I had more information about your screen it would help. How wide is this black strip around the outside edges of your screen?

Here is my guess, for what it's worth. There is a space that's maybe 1/8th to 1/4" wide, maybe a little wider, between the bezel and the image that you see, where there are no pixels. It might even be intentional to be sure that the bezel never blocks the view, no mater how wide the viewing angle, of any part of the image. It makes sense to me that, with an array that's 1920 by 1080, there would be some margin for error between that pixel array and the bezel.

There are test patterns you can use to measure over scan. Get one of those patterns on your screen, and set your display to the equivalent of Dot by Dot (zero over scan). If I'm right, you will see the entire test pattern.

If your black boarder is bigger than my guess, file this suggestion in the appropriate container.
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post #837 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CaTaSTrOphiK View Post

Just enjoyed avatar on mine. No issues that I noted just enjoying!! Time to go play with some 3d now.. Crappy pic from my iPad... Apparently I left the cable box on and the glasses plugged in for it to.

Nice, but man, you have GOT TO hide those cables
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post #838 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Dstew419 View Post

Just my .02 cents but hell u spend 4k on a tv then damn money for a calibration OR 3D glasses should NOT be an issue!!

Why cheap out now?!?!??!

I did say I would prolly get d-Nice to perform a Cal at some point. But listen, I and others can spend whatever we want on whatever we want without justifying it to anyone. I would spend $3k (not $4k) over and over again for this set with or without a pro Cal. I like the pic as it is and I feel the extra money is worth it just for the single sheet of glass designe alone. And I don't complain about glasses because I don't watch 3D and don't plan on it.

So for people that look down on those that buy the VT50 without a pro Cal and then call them cheap, I say shame on you and please worry about your own finances.

Gunga Gulunga..... Gunga Kunga Galunga..... On your deathbed you will receive total consciousness. So I got that goin' for me.
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post #839 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I hear what you are saying. But I can point to several posts where people feel that their picture looked very dull and drap after a pro Cal and felt like they wasted their money.

I've been collecting calibration reports for years now and that hasn't been my experience. The only reports I've ever excluded were reports where the calibrator wasn't named or where the calibrator didn't have a user name here at AVS. The purpose of the calibration lists that I've maintained has been to help people answer for themselves their questions about the worth of having a calibration done. I've never excluded a report because of the "looked very dull and crap" factor. If you read all those reports listed you won't find any like your describe unless the BB boys were involved or someone even more anonymous.

I don't have the time to read all the display threads at AVS so it's possible that I've missed some reports, but I don't think it would be a sample much different those I did find.

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The fact is that there are a ton of people that do not like a calibrated look.

I'm not sure what a "ton of people" would be, but I think I pointed that out already.

Quote:


They like pop and somewhat over saturated colors. This does not make one person right or wrong. It just means different strokes for different folks.
I am not the only person that feels this way or felt like cinema mode on most sets look like dirt was thrown on the screen.

I would never debate anyone on these points.

Quote:


I always use D-Nice settings but I always end up jacking up a couple settings because I prefer pop to accuracy. I will never turn someone away from a pro Cal but I will always warn them on what the expect.

A good professional calibrator is going to be just as careful to be sure that any prospective client understands what they will get from a calibration. Do you follow D-Nice's instructions exactly before you make your personal settings adjustments? That's all D-Nice asks people to do. Start with his base line, take a look at the results, and tweak to your own satisfaction.

Quote:


I will be the first person to admit that my contrast numbers are high. That is why I stress that the contrast number is the one that may need to be dialed down for personal pref. I stand behind the rest of my numbers though in terms of what is pleasing to my eye and I think others will like them as well.

That last bit seems to be important to you. I'm sure that the best calibrators feel the same way about their work.
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post #840 of 13696 Old 05-14-2012, 03:09 PM
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It is one things to tweak within a certain degree from the standard to coincide with personal preference yet quite another when being visibly excessive.

Cooked contrast does make things POP, Poop depending on ones pov, but by sacrificing accuracy, consistency, subtlety, dynamic range, all summed to equal lost visual information/fidelity. Never mind how fatiguing it is.

Ditto for sharpness, it really does detract from the picture, fraking halos everywhere.

If you were an audiophile and high fidelity accuracy was your goal, hearing systems with bloated bass or ear searing treble is unconscionable and very annoying.

I used to sell TVs and calibrations, my experience is indeed some folks still prefer the cooked contrast but after proper education most come to realize that proper calibration is video bliss. One or two customers did come back and mentioned that at first they were not satisfied but after becoming accustomed to an accurate image they said that anything else would be unsatisfactory.

When preference clearly deviates from the standard it is wrong.

Subtlety is nuanced beauty.

Best Regards
KvE

Politics is like a corral, no matter where you are you'll always be shovelling it.

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