Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Not to mention, I wonder how much better an OLED will be too the human eye as far as the overall picture quality, and most important at what cost ?

I saw that Samsung announced their OLED would be about $9,000.00. I doubt the price will drop quickly enought that anyone looking for a TV now should consider waiting.

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post #902 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 12:32 PM
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how many VT30 owners plan to or already have upgraded to a VT50?...I'm still going back and forth on whether it's worth it (I have the 55" VT30)
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post #903 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TitusTroy View Post

how many VT30 owners plan to or already have upgraded to a VT50?...I'm still going back and forth on whether it's worth it (I have the 55" VT30)

I sold my vt30 55 for a vt50 65 but I haven't got it yet.
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post #904 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Not to mention, I wonder how much better an OLED will be too the human eye as far as the overall picture quality, and most important at what cost ?

This^ Hurry up and wait and when ready you can experience the déjÃ* vu of $17,000 flat screen TV's at Costco. I'll be ordering a 65VT50 in the next 5 months and as the other poster commented, 5 years or so should be plenty of time to enjoy it and watch what OLED decides to do. Regardless I will never own another Sony TV.

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post #905 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Just heard from Ed Johnson (Calibrator) who just worked on a VT50 at VE store using ControlCAL... His feedback to me: 46fL in isf Day, grayscale gamma excellent (all 10pt Controls working as expected in ControlCAL and Ed stated he was very impressed with ControlCAL's implementation), color gamut very good despite CMS Lum controls not doing anything (highest deltaE 94 is for Blue lum of 1.0 in the Gamut).. MLL .0022fL (he has Klein K-10).

He's impressed with the VT50 from this initial calibration (didn't get time to view a lot of reference material yet, just was was playing up on the wall)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I was checking out the Pro settings last night, what I found was some very impressive settings. A little over my head for now to do a real ISF calibration.
Anyway with my kuro 141 UMR was kind enough to stop by and help me out, with a little push from D-Nice.
Now with my 65VT50, D-Nice is going to stop by and help me out the end of June when he is in Chicago.

And after he's done by you he's headin 90 miles north to tweak mine, really looking forward to it

John
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post #906 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airgon74 View Post

@D-Nice,

Have you gotten the chance to look at the VT50 1080p Pure direct mode with 4:4:4 pixel map.
Is there any improvements in picture quality in this mode?

Good question.

D-nice if you could try feeding it both RGB and YCbCr with 4:4:4 and see if there are any differences.

Previous Panasonic's did some funky translations being fed RGB 4:4:4. I hope there isn't any ringing around text or fine lines anymore.

I'm sure this is low on your "TODO" list. But if you can fit it in, thanks.

This is another thing Panasonic needs to mark off of their "bugs" checklist. I hope 2012 is the year they can do it in the US. UK reviews didn't make it sounds like RGB 4:4:4 was fixed.

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post #907 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

Good question.

D-nice if you could try feeding it both RGB and YCbCr with 4:4:4 and see if there are any differences.

Previous Panasonic's did some funky translations being fed RGB 4:4:4. I hope there isn't any ringing around text or fine lines anymore.

I'm sure this is low on your "TODO" list. But if you can fit it in, thanks.

This is another thing Panasonic needs to mark off of their "bugs" checklist. I hope 2012 is the year they can do it in the US. UK reviews didn't make it sounds like RGB 4:4:4 was fixed.

THere is a menu setting for the VT50 call "1080PPure Direct" and it is specifically for accepting 4:4:4 inputs.

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post #908 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Not to mention, I wonder how much better an OLED will be too the human eye as far as the overall picture quality, and most important at what cost ?

Most people will see relatively little differences. Even honest videophiles asked to quantify the improvement will probably put it in the 10-20% range. In no way will the improvement be a similar ratio to the price.

But let's be honest, those seeking the best aren't necessarily as worried about the price. The Sharp Elite is hard to justify price wise. But it's easy to justify as the all-around best display on the market.

I'm way more concerned about buying a first-generation OLED TV from anyone. None of the production processes used to make these are even remotely mature. They are so far removed from the displays on a Samsung Galaxy phone it's not even funny. Given that the first-gen is also really expensive, it seems to me that only people with two much money should even be considering a given manufacturer's first production OLEDs.

And, yes, I'd be having a different opinion in the second year and by the third year I'd be much less concerned -- even if they are still expensive relative to LCDs and plasmas. In other words, a 2014 LG or Samsung ought to be a reasonably safe bet. Any Sony/Panasonic collaboration would not be safe in its first year just because it's later. Owners of Sony SXRD TVs know what I'm talking about.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working. (Oh, and plasma didn't die because of logistics problems, nor does OLED ship in big boxes because it comes from Korea.)
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post #909 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 03:34 PM
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Just took a walk down to Best Buy for my lunch break and they had Harry Potter (what ever the last one is called) playing on a VT50 in THX Brightroom mode. I looked great and the bezel was very nice and understated. I switched it between THX Bright and Dark but with all the damn light in there it was really hard to get much of a real impression from it other than it looks much better than my PZ850. They had the 55" in a darker room so I may go back with some dics of my own to look at.

They also had a 70" Elite, not sure who makes it now but looked great with unbelievable blacks, just not for $7500

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post #910 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

They also had a 70" Elite, not sure who makes it now but looked great with unbelievable blacks, just not for $7500

Sharp.
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post #911 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Sharp.

Wow, seriously? I didn't think Sharp made much worth looking at but that thing was pretty damn amazing. The Elite had a demo disc obviously tailored to showcase the most expensive display they had while the VT50 was running straight BR content and I have no idea how I would compare the two without at least the same movie and somewhat similar settings.

Has anyone measured blacks to blacks on the Elite vs. the VT50?

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post #912 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TopperMcFly View Post

I hear what you are saying. But I can point to several posts where people feel that their picture looked very dull and drap after a pro Cal and felt like they wasted their money and some can't say enough good things. The fact is that there are a ton of people that do not like a calibrated look. They like pop and somewhat over saturated colors. This does not make one person right or wrong. It just means different strokes for different folks.
I am not the only person that feels this way or felt like cinema mode on most sets look like dirt was thrown on the screen. Although I find cinema mode onthe vt50 has more pop than any past plasma I have owned.

I always use D-Nice settings but I always end up jacking up a couple settings because I prefer pop to accuracy. I will never turn someone away from a pro Cal but I will always warn them on what to expect.
I will be the first person to admit that my contrast numbers are high. That is why I stress that the contrast number is the one that may need to be dialed down for personal pref. I stand behind the rest of my numbers though in terms of what is pleasing to my eye and I think others will like them as well.

Regarding sharpness, I will accept what the pros here are saying and I will revisit that aspect. But I can't help but feel the pic goes a hair fuzzy with it at 0. I will take a hard look at that. I really appreciate the input from everyone. I am like the majority here that are just armchair DIY calibrators that just like to share experiences to hopefully learn a few things that may help each other out.

Maby you need to get use to an accurate picture? I remember when i first got my kuro i thought pure mode was way too dull looking. Especially coming from an LCD. But after awhile realising what a natural image is suppose to look like; pure and movie mode is all i ever use. I can't go back to the artificial brightness, fake oversaturated colors and an over sharpened picture.

I use Dnice's settings for pure and movie which in fact reduces the image brightness even further and would probably look like donky s&% to an untrained eye(not saying im an expert, but i get what a calibrated picture is trying to achieve) and someone not knowing what to look for and what the picture is suppose to look like. But i love the way proper settings look. It looks as if your looking outside. Im not bothered by too much brightness, color etc.

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post #913 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Wow, seriously? I didn't think Sharp made much worth looking at but that thing was pretty damn amazing. The Elite had a demo disc obviously tailored to showcase the most expensive display they had while the VT50 was running straight BR content and I have no idea how I would compare the two without at least the same movie and somewhat similar settings.

Has anyone measured blacks to blacks on the Elite vs. the VT50?

The elite is 0.0004. The VT50 is 0.002 with 96hz.

Someone correct me if im off.

The elite is a fine set but i don't think it's worth all that money. You can spend way less and get amazing performance. The PQ gap is not like what the kuro had in 2008 IMHO.

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post #914 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Most people will see relatively little differences. Even honest videophiles asked to quantify the improvement will probably put it in the 10-20% range. In no way will the improvement be a similar ratio to the price.

But let's be honest, those seeking the best aren't necessarily as worried about the price. The Sharp Elite is hard to justify price wise. But it's easy to justify as the all-around best display on the market.

I'm way more concerned about buying a first-generation OLED TV from anyone. None of the production processes used to make these are even remotely mature. They are so far removed from the displays on a Samsung Galaxy phone it's not even funny. Given that the first-gen is also really expensive, it seems to me that only people with two much money should even be considering a given manufacturer's first production OLEDs.

And, yes, I'd be having a different opinion in the second year and by the third year I'd be much less concerned -- even if they are still expensive relative to LCDs and plasmas. In other words, a 2014 LG or Samsung ought to be a reasonably safe bet. Any Sony/Panasonic collaboration would not be safe in its first year just because it's later. Owners of Sony SXRD TVs know what I'm talking about.

Great points...

Everything I've read says its a top shelf LCD panel with OLED backlighting. So think Elite quality panel with OLED backlighting. I'm not sure the OLED backlighting does a whole lot for it to be honest. Image quality is still going to be dependent on dimming zones and the ability of the panel to update individual pixels with regard to motion blur etc...
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post #915 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:45 PM
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You no longer have to choose between an accurate picture and a "bright" picture.
It is possible to have both.

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #916 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

The elite is 0.0004. The VT50 is 0.002 with 96hz.

Someone correct me if im off.

The elite is a fine set but i don't think it's worth all that money. You can spend way less and get amazing performance. The PQ gap is not like what the kuro had in 2008 IMHO.

Too hard for me to tell with the content and environment but there was a pretty instant wow factor with the Elite, followed by a "wtf, is that the right price tag?" Is 96hz mode engaged with THX? There was I'd say a fairly discernible difference in blacks in my brief experience with both... not that it means anything given the conditions.
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Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 View Post

Great points...

Everything I've read says its a top shelf LCD panel with OLED backlighting. So think Elite quality panel with OLED backlighting. I'm not sure the OLED backlighting does a whole lot for it to be honest. Image quality is still going to be dependent on dimming zones and the ability of the panel to update individual pixels with regard to motion blur etc...

I had a bad Sony and Sharp LCD experience before I went plasma... flashlights, clouds, motion blur... things that scared me away from the tech and while I was nervous about IR it has been a non-issue.

All that said I sure would like to see some shoot out reviews on the Elite vs VT50. Obviously a significant cost gap but I'd be interested in seeing what the faults are of each and to what degree they impact the visuals and cost to value of each display.

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post #917 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Wow, seriously? I didn't think Sharp made much worth looking at but that thing was pretty damn amazing. The Elite had a demo disc obviously tailored to showcase the most expensive display they had while the VT50 was running straight BR content and I have no idea how I would compare the two without at least the same movie and somewhat similar settings.

Sharp Elite Thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1358702

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post #918 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

You no longer have to choose between an accurate picture and a "bright" picture.
It is possible to have both.

Yes. But how bright are you talking about??? There's a point where it gets in the way and doesn't look right. To me.

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post #919 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Wow, seriously? I didn't think Sharp made much worth looking at but that thing was pretty damn amazing. The Elite had a demo disc obviously tailored to showcase the most expensive display they had while the VT50 was running straight BR content and I have no idea how I would compare the two without at least the same movie and somewhat similar settings.

Has anyone measured blacks to blacks on the Elite vs. the VT50?

Wow you must be a die hard plasma fan to never have looked at the lcd forum and seen the Elite thread!

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post #920 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by General Kenobi View Post

Wow, seriously? I didn't think Sharp made much worth looking at but that thing was pretty damn amazing. The Elite had a demo disc obviously tailored to showcase the most expensive display they had while the VT50 was running straight BR content and I have no idea how I would compare the two without at least the same movie and somewhat similar settings.

I saw the Sharp 80' LED (I don't think this is an Elite) two displays down from an ST50 in my local BB, about a month ago. It blew me away. Colors were rich but not oversaturated, sharpness not at all bad for an LED, off-axis viewing almost as good as plasma. In short, it looked almost as good as the Panny plasma (and I'm not a fan of LCD at all). It was about $4500.

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post #921 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Wow you must be a die hard plasma fan to never have looked at the lcd forum and seen the Elite thread!

Kinda ya but really just been so content with my Pany 58PZ850 that I've not been in these forums much in the past 3-4 years. The wife gave me the green light on a new TV once we get moved (within the next 6mo) so the search has begun and I still would not have gone to the LCD forums had I not seen the Elite today, as I said very bad taste in my mouth from LCD's one of which (Sony XBR3) cost me over $5k for a POS. The Elite looked and cost like a Pioneer so threw me for a loop.

I plan to head back maybe tomorrow with some of my fav reference discs, mess with the settings and try to do a poor mans A/B between the two. I should gravitate towards the VT50 but am curious all the same.

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post #922 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I saw the Sharp 80' LED (I don't think this is an Elite) two displays down from an ST50 in my local BB, about a month ago. It blew me away. Colors were rich but not oversaturated, sharpness not at all bad for an LED, off-axis viewing almost as good as plasma. In short, it looked almost as good as the Panny plasma (and I'm not a fan of LCD at all). It was about $4500.

Quattron? With the yellow tiny RGBY?
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post #923 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 05:20 PM
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Yeah they copied the design of the kuro elites. Or at least tried to. I think it fails to capture that high end elegance the kuros had.

As you can probably tell.....i don't really like the sharp.

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post #924 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

I saw the Sharp 80' LED (I don't think this is an Elite) two displays down from an ST50 in my local BB, about a month ago.

You're right. What you saw wasn't the Elite model which comes in two sizes -- 60" and 70".

Quote:


... off-axis viewing almost as good as plasma.

If you're interested in buying one, you need to check that again. Even the $7,500 Elite is recognized to have typically poor LCD off-axis picture quality.
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So this is how my day is going:
http://thebestcamera.com/Zintu

Lesson learned, dont let the delivery guys leave until you have unboxed and checked.

This is gonna suck

Buncha savages in this town....

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So this is how my day is going:
http://thebestcamera.com/Zintu

Lesson learned, dont let the delivery guys leave until you have unboxed and checked.

This is gonna suck

Dude that sucks!!!! Are they going to replace it?
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I was trying to be "creative" in my searching as recommended for sub-$3000 pricing and found Provantage last week. However shipping to FL was $600+, so not as good a deal as it appeared.

Try amazon price match.

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So this is how my day is going:
http://thebestcamera.com/Zintu

Lesson learned, dont let the delivery guys leave until you have unboxed and checked.

This is gonna suck

Who delivered that?

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post #929 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 07:01 PM
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If you're interested in buying one, you need to check that again. Even the $7,500 Elite is recognized to have typically poor LCD off-axis picture quality.

I checked, several times. I even went back to the store to look again, it hadn't changed

Not interested. I prefer plasma.

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post #930 of 13782 Old 05-15-2012, 07:05 PM
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Are there any settings anyone can recommend that I can plug in when I go back to look at the VT50 or is THX fairly solid?

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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic , Panasonic Viera Tc P55vt50 , Plasma Hdtv , Displays , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv
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