Official Panasonic VT50 owners thread - Page 464 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13891 of 13905 Old 03-16-2015, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
90 can be wonky on these anyways. Can vary between runs too.

Good news is, gamma matters less way up there, vs down lower.
Thanks for the headsup.

So I calibrated everything. Colors all below DeltaE 2. Grayscale <DeltaE 1. Gamma at 2.2 mostly.

Gave Gravity a test run. Blacks are red! WTF :S Can't get rid of the red tint in black. Guess I have to do it all over again, but differently?
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post #13892 of 13905 Old 03-16-2015, 04:44 PM
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That red down low was obnoxious. I never could 100% solve it, but what I found with some help is you had to test 5% and 15% to see what they were doing. Not only 10 and 20. What you will find is 10% is perfect, but 5% is super red, so you have to make some concessions at 10%. Chad B knocks it out of the park every time, but he has it whipped.

You can also try starting with a different color temp and see if it is easier. Seems like I had to go down from Warm.

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post #13893 of 13905 Old 03-16-2015, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by EricNL View Post
Thanks for the headsup.

So I calibrated everything. Colors all below DeltaE 2. Grayscale <DeltaE 1. Gamma at 2.2 mostly.

Gave Gravity a test run. Blacks are red! WTF :S Can't get rid of the red tint in black. Guess I have to do it all over again, but differently?

The key is NOT to adjust the low end of the 2pt grayscale. Just correct the 2pt high at 100% stimulus and move on to the 10pt grayscale. As an option, you could try adjusting 2pt low at 5% stimulus but I have found that this strategy can still lead to some noticeable red coloration near black.


I have seen this behavior on both Sony's (an SXRD) and Panasonic plasmas. It appears that adjusting low 2pt at 20% or 30% stimulus on these sets messes up the balance near black. Calman helped me work towards this resolution awhile back and so far not messing with the 2pt low grayscale has done the trick on my VT50.


As an aside, assuming you are using a filter based colorimeter, it will help if you have a spectro to create a profile. Spectro's will read colors more accurately on a plasma.
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post #13894 of 13905 Old 03-17-2015, 02:18 AM
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The key is NOT to adjust the low end of the 2pt grayscale. Just correct the 2pt high at 100% stimulus and move on to the 10pt grayscale. As an option, you could try adjusting 2pt low at 5% stimulus but I have found that this strategy can still lead to some noticeable red coloration near black.


I have seen this behavior on both Sony's (an SXRD) and Panasonic plasmas. It appears that adjusting low 2pt at 20% or 30% stimulus on these sets messes up the balance near black. Calman helped me work towards this resolution awhile back and so far not messing with the 2pt low grayscale has done the trick on my VT50.


As an aside, assuming you are using a filter based colorimeter, it will help if you have a spectro to create a profile. Spectro's will read colors more accurately on a plasma.
I'm using a i1 display pro. Software: HCFR (latest version with built in images).

To do list:
  • Don't **** with the RGBLowEnd at 30% white. Only use the CMS per 10% interval?
  • Maybe change the colour temp to less warm.
  • Keep calm and try again.
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post #13895 of 13905 Old 03-17-2015, 04:28 AM
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EricNL

For clarity, when you say don't adjust RGB low end at 30% white, leave the RGB settings for the low part of a 2pt grayscale at the display's default settings. Then go about adjusting the 10 pt grayscale if needed. If you've got the capability, verify using 20 pt grayscale as sometimes the inbetween points of a 10 pt adjustment goes out more than you'd expect. For example, if you adjust 20 and 30% levels to merge RGB, you may find that 25 R or G or B pops up/down away from the other two. You might do better with less or more adjustment to keep the average where you want it.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, VideoForge HDMI II, Klein K10, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #13896 of 13905 Old 03-17-2015, 07:12 AM
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Here is the thing though, on mine, Chad makes WB high and low adjustment (minor), and then adjust 10 point, and he nails it. So ignoring low isn't the only solution to the issue, and it is an issue I battled.

This last time the touchup also took him longer due to the fact he had some 5% points acting up so he had to tinker with 10pt more. Maybe just age on the set...

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post #13897 of 13905 Old 03-17-2015, 07:17 AM
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Here is an example, and I am not going to throw all the settings up there.

Gamma 2.4
Warm2

WB Low - slightly reduce red

10pt 10% - greatly reduce red


Keep in mind, all sets are different though, but maybe that will help you in tinkering.

With Gamma 2.4, Warm 2, panel bright medium,contrast 82, and brightness set, I have a gamma of 2.28 and 38fL output. I used this mode 100% of the time.

Also keep in mind the size and type of pattern on these can vary gamma and fL.
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post #13898 of 13905 Old 03-18-2015, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Also keep in mind the size and type of pattern on these can vary gamma and fL.
Also keep in mind that that while displaying content, every second of video has different characteristics and ABL will have it's way with it. It's the same with FALD displays where calibration is accomplished with the local dimming OFF. You need to keep a constant. Because of this, real world gamma flops around with dimming ON, but I challenge anyone to actually see it.

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post #13899 of 13905 Old 03-18-2015, 08:15 AM
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Also keep in mind that that while displaying content, every second of video has different characteristics and ABL will have it's way with it. It's the same with FALD displays where calibration is accomplished with the local dimming OFF. You need to keep a constant. Because of this, real world gamma flops around with dimming ON, but I challenge anyone to actually see it.
Can't you also use grayscale and color patterns that keep the APL constant ?

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post #13900 of 13905 Old 03-18-2015, 08:34 AM
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Can't you also use grayscale and color patterns that keep the APL constant ?
The term would be relatively constant. That's why full field patterns are not used to calibrate plasmas. Despite using windows patterns, small windows patterns, equal energy patterns, or APL patterns to minimize ABL activity, ABL is still at work. It always is with no way to defeat it.

The point is, in content, how much of it is average picture level? Answer, practically none. This takes nothing away from PDP being a close second to OLED, and OLED has it's own problems. I personally have 3 plasmas, a PN51D8000, 65VT50, 65VT60, and I'll be viewing them until they die......

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post #13901 of 13905 Old 03-18-2015, 10:37 AM
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Thanks for the explanation Buzz. Have you worked on any OLED's yet ?

PS - If you are not yet back up in WI, it is starting to finally feel like Spring here. Saw the first robin of the season this past weekend. For me, that is the official sign of Spring in WI.

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post #13902 of 13905 Old 03-19-2015, 08:01 AM
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Thanks for the explanation Buzz. Have you worked on any OLED's yet ?

PS - If you are not yet back up in WI, it is starting to finally feel like Spring here. Saw the first robin of the season this past weekend. For me, that is the official sign of Spring in WI.
I've been watching the wx up there - looking good finally. I'm out in Phoenix for the month and will probably go back north sometime in the first week of April. A couple of local Wausau golf courses have opened. Last year it wasn't until early My. Go figure.

The 2014 OLEDs (LG) have CMS problems. Luckily they are quite good out of the box. Forum member and traveling calibrator Chad B and I worked on an OLED at Chris's (Cleveland Plasma) place in Naples back in December, 2013. I'll be getting an LG 55EF9500 when they're released later this year.

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post #13903 of 13905 Old 03-19-2015, 06:11 PM
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I thought I read somewhere here on AVS that the LG's have CMS issues regardless of display technology.


Given that everyone on this thread is a plasma fan, I think we are all hoping that OLED turns out to be a "stable" technology. My concern is that there might be some type of long term issue with OLED that will lead to it's demise, and I'm hoping that burn-in and image retention are less of a concern with OLED over time. I plan to wait at least 2 years before giving up on my VT50 and moving on to OLED. Otherwise, I may end up compromising with an LCD like the Panny AX900.

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post #13904 of 13905 Unread Today, 04:00 PM
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Looks like the A-Board has blown on my 65VT50.


I'm not seeing any of those boards on Ebay currently for this set.


Are there any other sources?

"We did not have business relations with that company, Fuh Yuan."
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post #13905 of 13905 Unread Today, 08:59 PM
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Dang, I figured you could get an A board easy. Such a common issue.

65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
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