Just bought a Panasonic 55" ST30, few questions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 05-06-2012, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So i've upgraded from a 2009 model 42" 720p Samsung plasma to the 55" panny ST30. I'm still trying to figure out my opinion on the set....i'm confused b/c i'm starting to think the picture looked better on my 720p samsung. For the most part, if i'm watching something in HD its decent but it looks kind of more grainy than the samsung, also if it shows anything in SD (ie the HD news cutting to a SD video report) the content looks abnormally grainy. I was just testing it out and wanted to watch a few different things to see how it looked and i flipped to FX in HD with iron man on and in a dark scene the wall would look like there was grainy snow all over it. Also, oceans thirteen in HD was unwatchable it was so grainy.

I got a real good deal on the TV so i don't feel like i wasted a bunch of money, but i'm debating on returning it. I really don't want to lug this thing back downstairs and back to the store but I shouldn't think that my way cheaper, older, and lower def samsung has a better picture.

I've got it set to:

Contrast 90
Brightness 55
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 55

Color temp cool1
Cats off
video nr off

color space off
black extension 0
gamma adj 2.4
panel brightness mid
contour emph on
agc 7

A lot of people on forums highly recommend panasonic plasmas and the ST30 set so i thought it would be amazing...is there something i should change? Will it break into a better picture, or is this graininess just something to get used to?
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post #2 of 30 Old 05-06-2012, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, ill def do this, i don't know much about displays and settings, but would the sharpness set at 0 not make the picture look slightly blurry?

EDIT: I turned the sharpness down to 0 and it did def help a lot, thanks so much for the suggestion! Still not as crystal clear and liquid smooth as my old samsung though, is there anything else i could change? Or is this just how Panasonics look? If this is just how they look, why are they often recommended as the king of plasmas? honest question, i'm not hating or anything, just confused.
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post #3 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 01:35 AM
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How close is your viewing distance? Does it look better farther away?
Try warm1 for color temp.
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post #4 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 04:34 AM
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I noticed this with the ST30 during some content, where it doesn't happen with other content (blu-rays, HD games) or other TVs. I've ordered an ST50 and have looked at several in stores and they do not appear noisy like the ST30 does (or at least some ST30s...2011 seems like it was a rough and inconsistent year for Panasonic Plasmas).
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post #5 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post

So i've upgraded from a 2009 model 42" 720p Samsung plasma to the 55" panny ST30. I'm still trying to figure out my opinion on the set....i'm confused b/c i'm starting to think the picture looked better on my 720p samsung. For the most part, if i'm watching something in HD its decent but it looks kind of more grainy than the samsung, also if it shows anything in SD (ie the HD news cutting to a SD video report) the content looks abnormally grainy. I was just testing it out and wanted to watch a few different things to see how it looked and i flipped to FX in HD with iron man on and in a dark scene the wall would look like there was grainy snow all over it. Also, oceans thirteen in HD was unwatchable it was so grainy.

I got a real good deal on the TV so i don't feel like i wasted a bunch of money, but i'm debating on returning it. I really don't want to lug this thing back downstairs and back to the store but I shouldn't think that my way cheaper, older, and lower def samsung has a better picture.

I've got it set to:

Contrast 90
Brightness 55
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 55

Color temp cool1
Cats off
video nr off

color space off
black extension 0
gamma adj 2.4
panel brightness mid
contour emph on
agc 7

A lot of people on forums highly recommend panasonic plasmas and the ST30 set so i thought it would be amazing...is there something i should change? Will it break into a better picture, or is this graininess just something to get used to?

The correct sharpness setting is from mid twenties to lower 30's. Couple other tips make sure your 3:2 pulldown setting is set to "on", the auto setting doesnt work correctly, also I use motion smoother set to "weak"because it affects how many lines are resolved. Check out the "ST30 DIY" thread lots of good settings over there. Also the set will get much better after about 150 hours or so, if it is properly calibrated it is capable of producting an excellent picture. What picture mode are you using ? Custom and mid panel brightness produced the best picture for me.

Also turn off that AGC setting should be a 0 and gamma should be 2.2.

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post #6 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 05:40 AM
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Try these settings. They are from a calibrated ST30!

Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 71
Brightness: 62
Color: 49
Sharpness: 15
Tint: 0
Color Temp: Warm 2
CATS: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off
Black Level: Light
24P Direct in: 60Hz
In Pro Settings Menu (White Balance)
W/B high R +7
W/B high G 0
W/B high B +16
W/B low R +7
W/B low G 0
W/B low B +4
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post #7 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post

So i've upgraded from a 2009 model 42" 720p Samsung plasma to the 55" panny ST30. I'm still trying to figure out my opinion on the set....i'm confused b/c i'm starting to think the picture looked better on my 720p samsung. For the most part, if i'm watching something in HD its decent but it looks kind of more grainy than the samsung, also if it shows anything in SD (ie the HD news cutting to a SD video report) the content looks abnormally grainy. I was just testing it out and wanted to watch a few different things to see how it looked and i flipped to FX in HD with iron man on and in a dark scene the wall would look like there was grainy snow all over it. Also, oceans thirteen in HD was unwatchable it was so grainy.

I got a real good deal on the TV so i don't feel like i wasted a bunch of money, but i'm debating on returning it. I really don't want to lug this thing back downstairs and back to the store but I shouldn't think that my way cheaper, older, and lower def samsung has a better picture.


I've got it set to:
Contrast 90
Brightness 55
Color 55
Tint 0
Sharpness 55

Color temp cool1
Cats off
video nr off

color space off
black extension 0
gamma adj 2.4
panel brightness mid
contour emph on
agc 7

A lot of people on forums highly recommend panasonic plasmas and the ST30 set so i thought it would be amazing...is there something i should change? Will it break into a better picture, or is this graininess just something to get used to?

Your old 720p Samsung definitely does not have better picture quality than an ST30, but one thing that might be happening is that a bigger screen size will expose flaws in the source or the content that wasn't apparent on the smaller screen and that does take some getting used to. And SD will suffer more on a larger screen.

What is your source? Some providers like Comcast or U-Verse have poor HD quality which is amplified on a larger screen, but FIOS or DirecTV HD should look pretty darn good.

Have you tried using other people's ST30 settings that have been posted in the ST30 threads? Obviously you're using Custom mode since you posted a Gamma adjustment, but have you tried Cinema mode?

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post #8 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HearingImpaired View Post

Try these settings. They are from a calibrated ST30!

Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 71
Brightness: 62
Color: 49
Sharpness: 15
Tint: 0
Color Temp: Warm 2
CATS: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off
Black Level: Light
24P Direct in: 60Hz
In Pro Settings Menu (White Balance)
W/B high R +7
W/B high G 0
W/B high B +16
W/B low R +7
W/B low G 0
W/B low B +4

A few key setting missing there, panel brightness ?, gamma ? White balance settings rarely translate from one set to another. Brightness seems too high unless Black extension is being used. Typically these sets come out in the 54 to 57 range for black level(brightness).

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post #9 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Your old 720p Samsung definitely does not have better picture quality than an ST30, but one thing that might be happening is that a bigger screen size will expose flaws in the source or the content that wasn't apparent on the smaller screen and that does take some getting used to. And SD will suffer more on a larger screen.

What is your source? Some providers like Comcast or U-Verse have poor HD quality which is amplified on a larger screen, but FIOS or DirecTV HD should look pretty darn good.

Have you tried using other people's ST30 settings that have been posted in the ST30 threads? Obviously you're using Custom mode since you posted a Gamma adjustment, but have you tried Cinema mode?

+1 For the above. I will tell you that sitting too close is another thing that you don't want to do for the same reason. I need to be two feet further from 55" ST30 than I am currently. I see "everything", which includes some things that I wish I didn't
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post #10 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

The correct sharpness setting is from mid twenties to lower 30's. Couple other tips make sure your 3:2 pulldown setting is set to "on", the auto setting doesnt work correctly, also I use motion smoother set to "weak"because it affects how many lines are resolved. Check out the "ST30 DIY" thread lots of good settings over there. Also the set will get much better after about 150 hours or so, if it is properly calibrated it is capable of producting an excellent picture. What picture mode are you using ? Custom and mid panel brightness produced the best picture for me.

Also turn off that AGC setting should be a 0 and gamma should be 2.2.

I tried to turn 3:2 pulldown to on, it's set to off, but its grayed out, i can't change it...what do i need to change to allow me to change it?
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post #11 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post

I tried to turn 3:2 pulldown to on, it's set to off, but its grayed out, i can't change it...what do i need to change to allow me to change it?

That only applies for 1080i content, what are you using for your cable box settings ? for my cable I set everything to 1080i I find this delivers a sharper picture imo

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post #12 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:33 AM
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I will agree with you on the grain that you are seeing. I believe this is called "dithering" but I still don't know that it is an accurate description. I see it on my tv as well, but it comes and goes with different sources, so I don't believe it is the tv.

Also, I will be the first to admit that my 720p DLP looked better with SD programming by far than does my ST30. This is because the DLP was both smaller in screen size and also seems that 720P tv's just do a better job with SD than do 1080P sets....probably due to pixel size.
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post #13 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Just got off of work and i'm trying to test out more shows to see how the panel looks. So far i watched an episode of parks and rec and the office in HD from charters on demand menu. I noticed a lot of artifacting and fuzziness when the camera would move, almost like watching a youtube video set on 360p. I don't know if thats normal or not, i do know that my samsung didn't show that at all...i'm tinkering with all of the settings according to some of the diy calibration settings but im still seeing a lot of fuzziness and artifacting every now and then on HD content, and 100% of the time on anything non HD. Even commercials on HD channels

I do have to sit close bc i live in an apt., maybe 3-5 feet. So far it feels like i've downgraded picture quality to get a larger screen and i don't get it b/c this is an upgraded resolution.
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post #14 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That only applies for 1080i content, what are you using for your cable box settings ? for my cable I set everything to 1080i I find this delivers a sharper picture imo

apparently my DVR sets the resolution automatically and its set to 1080p, i asked the guy when he was installing it if i can change the resolution manually bc i wanted to change it to 1080i for my samsung, but he said no its not possible.
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post #15 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post

Just got off of work and i'm trying to test out more shows to see how the panel looks. So far i watched an episode of parks and rec and the office in HD from charters on demand menu. I noticed a lot of artifacting and fuzziness when the camera would move, almost like watching a youtube video set on 360p. I don't know if thats normal or not, i do know that my samsung didn't show that at all...i'm tinkering with all of the settings according to some of the diy calibration settings but im still seeing a lot of fuzziness and artifacting every now and then on HD content, and 100% of the time on anything non HD. Even commercials on HD channels

I do have to sit close bc i live in an apt., maybe 3-5 feet. So far it feels like i've downgraded picture quality to get a larger screen and i don't get it b/c this is an upgraded resolution.

Wow that is awfully close, that probably explains the majority of your issues. If i get within 6 feet or so of my set I start to see dithering etc.

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post #16 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

I will agree with you on the grain that you are seeing. I believe this is called "dithering" but I still don't know that it is an accurate description. I see it on my tv as well, but it comes and goes with different sources, so I don't believe it is the tv.

Also, I will be the first to admit that my 720p DLP looked better with SD programming by far than does my ST30. This is because the DLP was both smaller in screen size and also seems that 720P tv's just do a better job with SD than do 1080P sets....probably due to pixel size.

man, i'm glad i'm not the only one. I'm getting a lot of it even in HD content, Do you feel like the ST30 ends up getting better over time, does the dithering bother you or have you gotten used to it? and last, do you feel like you have a true 1080p HD display even with all of the grain? thats my buyers remorse right now, it feels like i downgraded quality and thats impossible.
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post #17 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dtbreen76 View Post

+1 For the above. I will tell you that sitting too close is another thing that you don't want to do for the same reason. I need to be two feet further from 55" ST30 than I am currently. I see "everything", which includes some things that I wish I didn't

i can see how sitting further back would help the appearance. But man, this is my first 1080 display, and def first for the size, i was hoping that it would look amazing like i imagined, i don't feel like i should have to sit further away to not see the bad, it shouldn't be there in the first place you know what i mean?
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post #18 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Wow that is awfully close, that probably explains the majority of your issues. If i get within 6 feet or so of my set I start to see dithering etc.

yeah, i figure that didn't help....unfortunately i have a small apartment and the tv is against one wall, the couch against the other.
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post #19 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post

yeah, i figure that didn't help....unfortunately i have a small apartment and the tv is against one wall, the couch against the other.

I dont think you will be happy with that size set at that viewing distance, all plasmas are like that to a certain extent. Too bad because from the right viewing distance you can get an awesome picture.

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post #20 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:56 AM
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You sit way to close which is why you are seeing so many problems with your big TV. I have a 42" in one room and a 60" in the other, both 1080p, and sit about the same distance you do from the 42" but I am 8+ feet away from the 60" and the 42" still looks crisper just because the pixels are smaller. Think of it as taking a small image on a website and blowing it up, you start to see the imperfections much more easily.

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post #21 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sunkist View Post

You sit way to close which is why you are seeing so many problems with your big TV. I have a 42" in one room and a 60" in the other, both 1080p, and sit about the same distance you do from the 42" but I am 8+ feet away from the 60" and the 42" still looks crisper just because the pixels are smaller. Think of it as taking a small image on a website and blowing it up, you start to see the imperfections much more easily.

oh i see, again i don't know much about displays, i assumed with a higher resolution it wouldn't be much of a problem.
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post #22 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post

i can see how sitting further back would help the appearance. But man, this is my first 1080 display, and def first for the size, i was hoping that it would look amazing like i imagined, i don't feel like i should have to sit further away to not see the bad, it shouldn't be there in the first place you know what i mean?

Sorry to echo earlier posts, BUT:

9 FT from a 60" Panel. Blu-rays & HDDVDs look GREAT.

Most "HDTV" shows (via Uverse) and SD DVDS (obviously "upconverted") look OK to Pretty Good, but others look HORRID - and nearly all shows in these last two categories look distinctly better from about 12 feet away.

No. 1 Son suggests we get an OPPO for the SD DVDs. Cheaper just to sit a bit farther back....

We ran 60" ST30s until just over a week ago, & now have a 60" ST50 in the same location: the newer panel might be a BIT better with the lower quality material, but "Garbage In = Garbage Out," and a Large HD display simply allows you to SEE it better!

Would also agree with the earlier comment about 720p panels: our 50" 1366x758 Panasonic seems to do a wonderful job with SD DVDs and "HD TV."
Might make a good, inexpensive "Bridge" panel until you find a different seating arrangement. (But AVOID a 50" 1024x768p set - as is the trend these days: the Screen Door Effect is terrible!)
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post #23 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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"Garbage In = Garbage Out," and a Large HD display simply allows you to SEE it better!

ah, wow that makes sense, didn't think about it like that...
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post #24 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 10:16 AM
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I have a 50ST30 in the BR and the viewing distance is a measured 10'. When I get at 7' I start to see artifacts on lower quality stuff. I had avatar in the BD player and found I could get a lot closer, guessing 4-5'. I'm using D-Nice's settings and am using direct cable in. The HD cable around here is very good.
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post #25 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperGT007 View Post


I tried to turn 3:2 pulldown to on, it's set to off, but its grayed out, i can't change it...what do i need to change to allow me to change it?

If you haven't figured it out yet, turn your input source off (cable box, BD player, whatever). Keep or turn on your TV, now you can access 3:2 pull down.
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post #26 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 11:57 AM
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Lol! Someone should just make some kind of notice for every time someone posts an 'I just bought a fantastic new set and now everything I used to watch looks crappy' thread... Maybe something like this?

-----

ATTENTION: the image you are seeing is normal! Any deviation from prior experience is not a reflection of deficiency of quality with your new display. The image currently being shown is an honest and accurate portrayal of your sh*tty source. DO NOT PANIC! Please proceed to your official brand XX model YY settings thread and await further instructions. This message will repeat.

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post #27 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol! Someone should just make some kind of notice for every time someone posts an 'I just bought a fantastic new set and now everything I used to watch looks crappy' thread... Maybe something like this?

-----

ATTENTION: the image you are seeing is normal! Any deviation from prior experience is not a reflection of deficiency of quality with your new display. The image currently being shown is an honest and accurate portrayal of your sh*tty source. DO NOT PANIC! Please proceed to your official brand XX model YY settings thread and await further instructions. This message will repeat.

LOL sorry to look like a dummy, I just thought, ok, i'm getting a higher resolution screen from a brand that has a rep of being the best in plasmas and i'm seeing a picture that didn't match the quality of a lower resolution different branded set. It never really occurred that it could be the source, i just assumed HD cable is HD cable so it should show a better picture.
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post #28 of 30 Old 05-07-2012, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy View Post

If you haven't figured it out yet, turn your input source off (cable box, BD player, whatever). Keep or turn on your TV, now you can access 3:2 pull down.

oh nice ill try that, what does the 3:2 pull down do exactly?

EDIT: switched off the DVR and it is still grayed out, any other suggestions?
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post #29 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 05:29 AM
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Sorry about the last settings I posted. They seem to be from a blocked source on here. Here are Cnets calibrated settings. Now these settings are no replacement for having your set calibrated by someone but they should give you a good idea of where to start.

Panasonic TC-P50ST30 picture settings
by katzmaier - 5/4/11 10:38 AM
Review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-34468791.html

Related products:
Panasonic TC-P42ST30
Panasonic TC-P46ST30
Panasonic TC-P55ST30
Panasonic TC-P60ST30
Panasonic TC-P65ST30

Calibration report using these settings:
http://scr.bi/jAKcpk

Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Panasonic TC-P50ST30 in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html

--Picture menu
Picture mode: Cinema
[All settings at default; click "reset to default" to gray it out to be sure. See the review for details on why we didn't adjust any settings in this mode. Note that even Video NR should be left at Weak since changing it to Off adversely affects color temperature.]

As noted in the review, we also tried calibrating the Custom settings but experienced worse results than with the above. We're including those settings here, however, in case you want to experiment. They might also produce a better image in bright rooms than Cinema.

--Picture menu
Picture mode: Custom
Contrast: +80
Brightness: +59
Color: +32
Tint: -1
Sharpness: +20
Color temp: Warm 2
Color mgmt: Off [grayed out]
Photo enhancement: [grayed out]
C.A.T.S.: Off
Video NR: Off

-- Pro settings submenu
Color space: Normal
W/B high R: -50
W/B high G: -49
W/B high B: -26
W/B low R: +6
W/B low G: +1
W/B low B: -6
Black extension: 0
Gamma adjustment: 2.4
Panel brightness: High
Contour emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

-- Aspect adjustments submenu
Screen format: Full
HD size: Size 2
H size: [grayed out]
Zoom adjustments: [grayed out]

-- HDMI settings: [no change from default]

--Advanced picture submenu
3D Y/C filter: Off [grayed out]
Color matrix: HD [grayed out]
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Motion smoother: Off
Black level: Light
3:2 pulldown: On
24p Direct in: 60Hz

Note: This post was edited by its original author. added link to Calibration report on 05/04/2011 on 10:45 AM PT

Note: This post was edited by its original author. removed repeated text, fixed link on 05/04/2011 on 12:59 PM PT
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post #30 of 30 Old 05-08-2012, 05:40 AM
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Here are some more settings.
Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 94
Brightness: 54
Color: 50
Tint: -3
Sharpness: 30
Color Temp: Warm2

Color mgmt: Grayed Out

Photo Enhancement: Grayed Out
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Strong

Pro Settings
Colorspace: Normal

W/B High R: 0
W/B High G: -7
W/B High B: +11

W/B Low R: +2
W/B Low G: +1
W/B Low B: -8

Black Extension: 0
Gamma Adjustment: 2.4
Panel Brightness: Low
Contour Emphasis: Off
AGC: 0

Aspect Adjustments

Screen Format: Full

HD Size-Grayed out

H Size:1

Zoom adjustments-Grayed out

HDMI Settings

HDMI/DVI RGB Range
HDMI 1:Auto

HDMI 2:Auto

HDMI 3:Auto

Content Type

HDMI 1:Auto

HDMI 2:Auto

HDMI 3:Auto

Advanced Picture

3D Y/C Filter: Grayed out
Color Matrix:HD

Block NR: On
Mosquito NR: On
Motion Smoother: Off
Black Level: Light
3:2 PullDown: Grayed out

24p Direct In: Grayed out
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