The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goemonate View Post

For the 24p input, should I set it to 60Hz or 96Hz ? I see some flickering on 48Hz, but by default it is set to 60Hz, so I don't know which one I should use.

60 or 96Hz is determined by what you are feeding your VT50, if you have the setting in your VT50 set on for 96Hz. As long as you are feeding HQ Blu Rays 96Hz should work well.

ss
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post #452 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

60 or 96Hz is determined by what you are feeding your VT50, if you have the setting in your VT50 set on for 96Hz. As long as you are feeding HQ Blu Rays 96Hz should work well.
ss

I am feeding 23.976Hz film source from my BR player. Do you mean I will get better picture at 96Hz than 60Hz?
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post #453 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

60 or 96Hz is determined by what you are feeding your VT50, if you have the setting in your VT50 set on for 96Hz. As long as you are feeding HQ Blu Rays 96Hz should work well.
ss

Do you not experience any flickering?

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post #454 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goemonate View Post

For the 24p input, should I set it to 60Hz or 96Hz ? I see some flickering on 48Hz, but by default it is set to 60Hz, so I don't know which one I should use.

you should run some content using both and see which you prefer.. some like 96, several others 60..

Here's what Kevin Miller posted:
Quote:
The Panasonic plasmas have had problems with how they handle 1080p/24fps content from Blu-ray for years now. Last year’s VT30 series exhibited severe jitter when the 96Hz feature was engaged for Blu-ray playback. This year’s VT50s handle 1080p.24fps much better, but still not perfectly as there is still some jitter visible. I personally would use the 60Hz setting because the jitter is noticeable, but some will find this minor issue acceptable, and may want to use the 96Hz setting. The panel did not pass the Spears & Munsil 1080p/24 Wedge test exhibiting significant tearing and moiré artifacts.

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post #455 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

you should run some content using both and see which you prefer.. some like 96, several others 60..
Here's what Kevin Miller posted:

Turbe, what do you prefer? Have you noticed any flickering or eye fatigue with 96hz? I don't notice the flickering during movies (I can see it in patterns), but I do experience eye fatigue

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post #456 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 09:30 AM
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with the time I spent on a VT50, 96 was better (vs last year) but I still think 60 was better...

I have a VT30 here (though it needs to go, getting crowded, new models otw), 60Hz is really the only option on this series.

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post #457 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 09:40 AM
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I watched Transformers twice in a row, once at 60 and once at 96. I prefer 96. I see lots of flicker at 48hz, but nothing at 96. I've experienced eye fatigue regardless of settings. I watch in THX Cinema for now. I'm giving it a week to see if my eyes adjust to the display before tweaking the settings. This TV has easily ten times the contrast of my last RPTV.
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post #458 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 09:43 AM
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yes, forget 48...

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post #459 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 11:25 AM
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i watched transformers with 60, 96 and 48.
I prefer 96 over 60, movie like feel
48 is strange , it flickers a lot but if i watch it for a longer time i kind of like the effect (feels like old type projector is ticking and projecting frames slowly)
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post #460 of 2165 Old 08-22-2012, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

you should run some content using both and see which you prefer.. some like 96, several others 60..

Sometimes I think people prefer 3:2 judder because it seems, oddly enough, to have a smoothing effect compared to the steady cadence of 24FPS.

To me 96Hz seems more film-like, though I admit to seeing a slight flicker on bright scenes--as if they're adding a blank frame every 4 frames. It's interesting that I remember reading on the VT25 models that a blank frame was one of the ways Panasonic was combating 3D cross-talk. Maybe it's some architectural glitch related to that in the software.
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post #461 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by goemonate View Post

I am feeding 23.976Hz film source from my BR player. Do you mean I will get better picture at 96Hz than 60Hz?

Not really, this is all very subjective and dependent on how your display is calibrated and how good your source material is.

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Do you not experience any flickering?

Nope, non that is not on the source material.

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post #462 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 02:12 AM
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With the new firmware for are VT50's, you guys may want to try Normal/Mid/2.4 for your ISF settings.

Using Warm2 imo there is just to much of a Red tint to overcome in the 10 and 20% IRE's. And if not very careful you will end up with a slight pink tint. Of-course that's saying you do not change Green in grayscale (W/B detail adjustments).

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post #463 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

With the new firmware for are VT50's, you guys may want to try Normal/Mid/2.4 for your ISF settings.

Jeff Meier calibrated my set before the firmware update to 1.150 and afterward. It appears that the update changed the white balance to ~+5% green across the brightness levels. He used and continues to use custom mode at Warm2. I feel no need to use the ISF modes. The update also changed the CMS luminance values to be more accurate. Jeff did not need to change the luminance values in the CMS to achieve accuracy. They remain all at 0.

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post #464 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Nope, non that is not on the source material.
ss

Lucky. I can't actually see the flickering during movies but I can see it during patterns.

I don't have the red tint so warm2 worked great for me for ISF Night. If I change the panel brightness to high (this is how I calibrated ISF Day) there is obvious red tint in the lower end of the greyscale using warm2. I think I will recalibrate using warm for isf day

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post #465 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_S View Post

Jeff Meier calibrated my set before the firmware update to 1.150 and afterward. It appears that the update changed the white balance to ~+5% green across the brightness levels. He used and continues to use custom mode at Warm2. I feel no need to use the ISF modes. The update also changed the CMS luminance values to be more accurate. Jeff did not need to change the luminance values in the CMS to achieve accuracy. They remain all at 0.
Sean

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Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Lucky. I can't actually see the flickering during movies but I can see it during patterns.
I don't have the red tint so warm2 worked great for me for ISF Night. If I change the panel brightness to high (this is how I calibrated ISF Day) there is obvious red tint in the lower end of the greyscale using warm2. I think I will recalibrate using warm for isf day

I am only suggesting Normal as a alternative. Yes Warm 2 is already fairly close to the default 0's, both for CMS and Grayscale, imo the closest mode of them all.

btw, also beware of the pink tint in the higher IRE's white's.

ss
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post #466 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Jeff is a very nice man and a excellent calibrator.
I am only suggesting Normal as a alternative. Yes Warm 2 is already fairly close to the default 0's, both for CMS and Grayscale, imo the closest mode of them all.
btw, also beware of the pink tint in the higher IRE's white's.
ss

I noticed your color is 46. How did you settle on that number? I used a meter (post-patch) and I'm getting 48 but I do find it to be a tad over saturated (using my 500m as reference, however it is possible my 500m has drifted..)

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post #467 of 2165 Old 08-23-2012, 10:32 PM
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what do you guys use for low and high, 30 and 80 or 30 and 100?
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post #468 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I noticed your color is 46. How did you settle on that number? I used a meter (post-patch) and I'm getting 48 but I do find it to be a tad over saturated (using my 500m as reference, however it is possible my 500m has drifted..)

No real reason, just that it suits what I like best. And of-course I like to stay with what settings for color, contrast and brightness I pre-set.

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what do you guys use for low and high, 30 and 80 or 30 and 100?

I use 80/30, but always do a full grayscale before I get into the CMS. After I do a full CMS I go back and tweak my grayscale, then do some visual tests like 11 step grayscale. If to my eyes I see something wrong in the 11 step grayscale, I will go back into the CMS and tweak it and once again do the 11 step grayscale.
If I find myself doing fairly large changes when in tweaking mode, I just hit the reset button and start over.

ss
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post #469 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

No real reason, just that it suits what I like best. And of-course I like to stay with what settings for color, contrast and brightness I pre-set.
I use 80/30, but always do a full grayscale before I get into the CMS. After I do a full CMS I go back and tweak my grayscale, then do some visual tests like 11 step grayscale. If to my eyes I see something wrong in the 11 step grayscale, I will go back into the CMS and tweak it and once again do the 11 step grayscale.
If I find myself doing fairly large changes when in tweaking mode, I just hit the reset button and start over.
ss

you have to have really good eyes to see, all those little color differences when looking at different shades of gray!!!
I wonder it this comes with time or you just see it all.
If i watch tv and move color from 50 to 46 i can see not too much of a difference.
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post #470 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 08:08 AM
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I have some comparative results of Topper settings C & D. Although they both measured fairly well on my 65VT50, D would be the preferred settings. Interpreting both the C & D Advanced reports, it is evident that the VT50 color tracking leaves something to be desired. For that reason I recommend VT calibrations be accomplished using 75% color saturation patterns instead of 100%. Although 100% saturation accuracy is compromised, the areas of the color gamut where most content resides will be considerably better.



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post #471 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blwegrzyn View Post

you have to have really good eyes to see, all those little color differences when looking at different shades of gray!!!
I wonder it this comes with time or you just see it all.
If i watch tv and move color from 50 to 46 i can see not too much of a difference.

???????

Color NEEDED to be set at 46-47 before the FW luminance fix. Now it should be set at 50.

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post #472 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

???????
Color NEEDED to be set at 46-47 before the FW luminance fix. Now it should be set at 50.

I don't agree with 50. That is definitely too high on my set

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post #473 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I don't agree with 50. That is definitely too high on my set

Could be. If you don't calibrate, use a Color Bars pattern and adjust while looking through a blue filter. On the other hand, if you do calibrate, Color and Tint are left at default as all of the adjustments are made in the Color Management System. There are exceptions, of course, but the VT50s I've done so far have not required Color adjustment since the update.

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post #474 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I have some comparative results of Topper settings C & D. Although they both measured fairly well on my 65VT50, D would be the preferred settings. Interpreting both the C & D Advanced reports, it is evident that the VT50 color tracking leaves something to be desired. For that reason I recommend VT calibrations be accomplished using 75% color saturation patterns instead of 100%. Although 100% saturation accuracy is compromised, the areas of the color gamut where most content resides will be considerably better.



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Topper D Advanced AVS.pdf 362k .pdf file

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post #475 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 10:22 AM
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Where are Topper's D settings? I see the Rev C settings on the VT Owners thread but no D settings.

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post #476 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Could be. If you don't calibrate, use a Color Bars pattern and adjust while looking through a blue filter. On the other hand, if you do calibrate, Color and Tint are left at default as all of the adjustments are made in the Color Management System. There are exceptions, of course, but the VT50s I've done so far have not required Color adjustment since the update.

That being the case then why not just leave all the CMS adjustments in there default settings, and let the Color Management System do all the adjustments.

Or maybe you are over looking pre setting color before your grayscale and cms.
Yes as a general rule when the displays has a cms, you would not adjust the tint.

Please give us some hard facts to backup "you should not use anything other that default color setting". Why not simply post your settings for your VT50 and report using default color. I would gladly run a report putting the color at 46 or 47 and one that is set at default (50).

btw, in case you thought topper used anything other than the WOW disc, just take a second look at your cms report. Did you also run a report on the graysale.
I am sure you know when using Warm2 and mid all the default settings are not that bad, at-least comparing them to the Kuro and others.

ss

Just for the record, I am not saying that a color setting of 50 is not ok. Simply that imo once folks become use to a less saturated picture they may find the colors and detail to be more appealing.
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post #477 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 09:02 PM
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Topper,

These settings get better and better. The "E" settings are the best I've had in my set so far. Thank you and Buzz and whoever else helped you with these.

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post #478 of 2165 Old 08-24-2012, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

That being the case then why not just leave all the CMS adjustments in there default settings, and let the Color Management System do all the adjustments. The CMS and the Color Management System are one in the same so I don't have a clue what you're asking.

Or maybe you are over looking pre setting color before your grayscale and cms. Overlook? I said that with a full CMS, adjustment of Color is not normally required because the CMS does a much more precise job, color by color.

Yes as a general rule when the displays has a cms, you would not adjust the tint. Nor Color

Please give us some hard facts to backup "you should not use anything other that default color setting". Post 473 states that there are exceptions to the rule.

Why not simply post your settings for your VT50 and report using default color. I would gladly run a report putting the color at 46 or 47 and one that is set at default (50). I don't post settings because they don't translate well from one display to another. The only reason I'm posting at all on this forum is because I own a 65VT50 personally and can help with the basics.

btw, in case you thought topper used anything other than the WOW disc, just take a second look at your cms report. Did you also run a report on the graysale. Pages one and two of the C vs D report are nothing BUT grayscale.

I am sure you know when using Warm2 and mid all the default settings are not that bad, at-least comparing them to the Kuro and others. Actually, there is no possible way to know until measurements are taken and comparisons have been made.

Just for the record, I am not saying that a color setting of 50 is not ok. Simply that imo once folks become use to a less saturated picture they may find the colors and detail to be more appealing. The Color control adjusts Chroma Gain which is far and away much more associated with Luminance than Saturation.

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post #479 of 2165 Old 08-25-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


I am sorry but you didn't say anything, you evidently have no proof to back up your statement.
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The CMS and the Color Management System are one in the same so I don't have a clue what you're asking.
Of-course thats what CMS stands for, Color Management System. So I don't even know why you would make a note of this in your reply. If you reread the post I was replying to (473) I think you would understand what I was saying.
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Overlook? I said that with a full CMS, adjustment of Color is not normally required because the CMS does a much more precise job, color by color.
I know you didn't overlook it, I was being a bit sarcastic. In the post #473 that I was replying to you said nothing about "much more precise job, color by color."
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I don't post settings because they I don't post settings because they don't translate well from one display to another. The only reason I'm posting at all on this forum is because I own a 65VT50 personally and can help with the basics. The only reason I'm posting at all on this forum is because I own a 65VT50 personally and can help with the basics.
Ahh the old "translate well from one display to another" excuse, sorry but that doesn't fly. D-Nice for years posted his settings for the Kuro's that I have used, and yes they do translate fairly well with the majority of same model displays (or so say a lot of folks that have use his settings). Matter of fact I actually saw a "THX Certified Video Calibrator" use D-Nice's settings for a Kuro, I called him on it and he was man enough to admit it.
"The only reason I'm posting at all on this forum" Well I am glad you pointed this out, some folks may of taken the fact that in your sig you are a "THX Certified Video Calibrator" for alliterative reasons..
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Pages one and two of the C vs D report are nothing BUT grayscale.
This is the only statement of yours you are correct and to the point about. I only looked at the D settings PDF report.
Quote:
Actually, there is no possible way to know until measurements are taken and comparisons have been made.
Ok, so what you are saying is that you have never calibrated a Kuro before. imo If you had then you would have a idea how it does compare.
Quote:
Just for the record, the Color control adjusts Chroma Gain which is far and away much more associated with Luminance than Saturation.
Ahh, and I thought the Luminance Fix from Panasonic for settings in CMS/Color Management System was there for a reason. So I guess from what you are saying, having point by point Luminance controls are of no value, because "Color control adjusts Chroma Gain which is far and away much more associated with Luminance"

Please show your settings and reports for your VT50. This would be most helpful for us DIY folks, and maybe give us some ideas on how to do a better calibration. I think most folks are willing to take the chance that your settings do or do not 'translate well" or fairly well. imo this would be a lot more helpful than you keep posting about using a 75% window.

At least in the case of topper, he is trying and posting what he thinks may work. Even though his setting are not calibrated by conventional means.

ss
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post #480 of 2165 Old 08-25-2012, 11:32 AM
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Try posting your comments on the Display Calibration sub forum and see how far you get. Best of luck.

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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic Viera Tc P55vt50 , Plasma Hdtv , Displays , Panasonic Viera Tc P65st50 Plasma Tv
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