The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2157 Old 09-15-2012, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I am, as well as the ee (Spectracal) ColorBox, and before too long I'll likely be also working with LightSpace and the Davio box for 64x64x64 cubes.
It was released last night. I have it but won't have time to work with it until after the weekend. At least CP comes with some documentation, something Spectracal is short on.
It was released into the wild yesterday, just like ChromaPure. Some of us have been working with the CalMAN beta for months.
The Lumagen 125 point 3D LUT system is working well. First let me say that it is by no means a professional system like the Davio but it works well enough to knock your socks off even if you're a critical viewer. Color accuracy on the LUTed VT50 is much improved. Standard calibration methods use the 100% color saturation points and depend on the TV to do the tracking work from that point on. As you can see on the pre calibration CIE chart the VT50 does not do a very good job of this. If you calibrate your own TV you should use 75% saturation as the basis. ChromaPure has had this capability for quite some time.
Other than improved HD picture it should be noted that SD REC.609 content also looks better color wise but the LUT can't do much about low resolution.


Here's an interesting innovation by SpectraCal - the Color Checker:

For a little frosting on the cake I placed a Darblet between the Lumagen and the VT50. It now takes a setting of 40% to get the same effect as pre LUT 55%.
Plasmas are notoriously poor candidates for 3D LUTs because of ABL and it doesn't make any difference what size patterns are used. You'd never know it, though, to look at my TV. In a word I hate to use concerning displays, it's frick'n AWESOME and easily the best picture I've seen so far. Highly recommended.

I'm not familiar with Calman. Is the RGB line suppose to be grayscale? If it is, isn't their variation enough to be a problem. Just asking and learning.

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post #542 of 2157 Old 09-15-2012, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I'm not familiar with Calman. Is the RGB line suppose to be grayscale? If it is, isn't their variation enough to be a problem. Just asking and learning.

Yes, grayscale. Look at the scale. Those are very good readings. And look at gamma in the second graphic. This near perfection did not come about until the latest Lumagen FW was released.

This is new ground for consumers and it will get better and better (and less expensive) as time goes by.

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post #543 of 2157 Old 09-15-2012, 06:53 PM
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GS/Gamma is done in the stage before the Color Cube LUT is produced as can be seen in this screen shot. It is not far from perfection. When the Cube LUT is produced there are changes in luminance and it does affect the GS/Gamma somewhat. Lumagen/Calman/ChromaPure may find a way to improve this but need they? If you want better numbers you have to pay the price and move on up to LightSpace/Davio Box 64x64x64 cubes.


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post #544 of 2157 Old 09-15-2012, 08:07 PM
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quick question to all VT50 owners , does your TV make any buzzing noise ? If so how would you describe the noise it makes ? How far away with volume on mute until the buzz can not be heard ? How low can you go with the volume until you drown out the buzz with sound ?

Finally, how bad is image retention. Read the CNET review and read some complaints here and am worried I'll get it as soon as I watch football Sunday or watch a few hours of espn.

look forward to hearing from you owners. Thanks again.
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post #545 of 2157 Old 09-15-2012, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adeelz View Post

I first tried Katzmaier's settings, the Topper's "D" settings. I liked Katmaier's settings better but I still fell there can be an improvment. I haven't tried Topper's E settings yet. Can anyone comment on his E settings vs Katmaier's? I mostly watch sports.

I am currently also using Katzmaier's settings. I did try Topper's E Settings as well, but they did not work for me at all, and I found Katzmaier's to be still a lot better. This is not to say that you shouldn't try Topper's anyway if you like; after all it can't hurt and takes just a few minutes to adjust a few settings... They might look better on your panel or suit your personal taste... However, I have personally not found anyone's settings that when transferred beat Katzmaier's at this point. It was also pointed out to me in this blog that Topper's settings are done without actual calibration equipment and using a WOW disc only, whereas Katzmaier's are done professionally with the calibration software and related equipment. After all, Katzmaier is an ISF certified calibrator... Can his settings be improved? Sure they can, but it would seem unlikely with another set of transferred settings, but only with true calibration performed on your set... This has been at least my experience so far with the VT50... If you find any other settings you feel look better, do let me know...

Which aspects of Katzmaier's settings do you think need improvement on your set? Just curious...

Cheers...
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post #546 of 2157 Old 09-15-2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearzfan1963 View Post

quick question to all VT50 owners , does your TV make any buzzing noise ? If so how would you describe the noise it makes ? How far away with volume on mute until the buzz can not be heard ? How low can you go with the volume until you drown out the buzz with sound ?
Finally, how bad is image retention. Read the CNET review and read some complaints here and am worried I'll get it as soon as I watch football Sunday or watch a few hours of espn.
look forward to hearing from you owners. Thanks again.

Personally, I have not noticed any buzzing on my VT50 at all. Even if I am standing right in front of the TV, inches away. I literally have to put my head behind the TV to start noticing the fans, so they are as quiet as can be. Now, it has been said that this varies from set to set, but I have a hard time imagining it being disturbingly loud even on sets that may have any buzzing going on. Unless you really like watching your TV muted in a perfectly silent room, I wouldn't worry about it... That's at least my experience with the VT50.

I use my VT50 more for movies and stuff and not so much ESPN, but haven't seen any IR issues so far. Someone with more ESPN watching time might be able to answer this better...
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post #547 of 2157 Old 09-18-2012, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

This calibration is my first attempt using Calman 5 Enthusiast.

ss


Did you get the with the auto control? I'm looking to get the CalMAN 5 Control . I think since i very calibrated before and I have the VT50 it would be the best choice for me. Since i am not really sure what im getting for extra 100$ more. I dont really understand the color cube option either.
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post #548 of 2157 Old 09-19-2012, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cpluse View Post

Did you get the with the auto control? I'm looking to get the CalMAN 5 Control . I think since i very calibrated before and I have the VT50 it would be the best choice for me. Since i am not really sure what im getting for extra 100$ more. I dont really understand the color cube option either.

I have seen the results of inner and outer CMS settings done by a well respected "pro" calibrator with very high end equipment, and guess what, the settings are nothing special for a VT50 (imo). There are far more impotent things to take into account when calibrating a VT50 than the inner and outer CMS settings (Cube).
I do have the Enthusiast V5 but only because I had DIY 4 with a add-on key for my I1pro (upgraded to I1pro 2, and happy I did) that I got a few months ago, so I got a free Enthusiast upgrade.

Anyway imo the new calman v5 (all be it a little buggy) is a big improvement over V4, things like the inner and outer CMS maybe nice but not necessary to get excellent results when doing a ISF calibration on are VT50's. imo if done right, there should be very little (if any trade off ?) trade off in your settings to get excellent results from a calibration on are VT50's.

I can't comment on autocal for the new V5 calman, because I haven't tried it and probably will never use it for my settings on my VT50.

ss
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post #549 of 2157 Old 09-19-2012, 02:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

GS/Gamma is done in the stage before the Color Cube LUT is produced as can be seen in this screen shot. It is not far from perfection. When the Cube LUT is produced there are changes in luminance and it does affect the GS/Gamma somewhat. Lumagen/Calman/ChromaPure may find a way to improve this but need they? If you want better numbers you have to pay the price and move on up to LightSpace/Davio Box 64x64x64 cubes.
]

Is the chart for 3D GS/Gamma? How did the CMS turn out?
I take it you use a Lumagen for your color patterns.

ss

btw, it looks like you are using a trail/beta test version of calman, is the chart you posted done with your I1pro on your VT50 or is that just using the "simulated meter" in calman?
Now I see why you asked about the "inner points" in the Enthusiast version.
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post #550 of 2157 Old 09-19-2012, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I have seen the results of inner and outer CMS settings done by a well respected "pro" calibrator with very high end equipment, and guess what, the settings are nothing special for a VT50 (imo). There are far more impotent things to take into account when calibrating a VT50 than the inner and outer CMS settings (Cube).
I do have the Enthusiast V5 but only because I had DIY 4 with a add-on key for my I1pro (upgraded to I1pro 2, and happy I did) that I got a few months ago, so I got a free Enthusiast upgrade.
Anyway imo the new calman v5 (all be it a little buggy) is a big improvement over V4, things like the inner and outer CMS maybe nice but not necessary to get excellent results when doing a ISF calibration on are VT50's. imo if done right, there should be very little (if any trade off ?) trade off in your settings to get excellent results from a calibration on are VT50's.
I can't comment on autocal for the new V5 calman, because I haven't tried it and probably will never use it for my settings on my VT50.
ss


Thank you for the explanation. I guess i will learn how to use it. I think it come's with a video also to help with the new feature and process on how to use it features.
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post #551 of 2157 Old 09-19-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

There are far more impotent things to take into account when calibrating a VT50 than the inner and outer CMS settings (Cube).

Actually, if you have a Radiance and run the 125 point cube there is a substantial difference between that resulting picture and the one produced in the Custom or ISF modes using the 1D LUT controls. I have the Lumagen MEMA showing the cube and MEMB showing the ISF calibration sans cube so I can switch back and forth for demo purposes. The cube is quite a bit better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Is the chart for 3D GS/Gamma? How did the CMS turn out?

Yes. Like this:



Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post


I take it you use a Lumagen for your color patterns.

btw, it looks like you are using a trail/beta test version of calman, is the chart you posted done with your I1pro on your VT50 or is that just using the "simulated meter" in calman?

Yes, the Lumagen supplies its own patterns.

The calibration was done with a D3 profiled from an i1Pro. The reason for the simulated meter and other generics in the upper right hand corner is because I had pulled up the saved CDF file to get this graphic. When the CDF is activated and there are no meters, generators, or displays attached this is what you get.

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post #552 of 2157 Old 09-19-2012, 04:50 PM
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Didn't Kaz calibrate the VT50 before the luminance controls were working?

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post #553 of 2157 Old 09-19-2012, 07:38 PM
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Is there a "Settings FAQ" for the VT that explains the non-pro settings and why they should be set a certain way? I'm referring to things like "mosquito NR", "block NR", and so on, not the real deep stuff.
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post #554 of 2157 Old 09-20-2012, 04:14 PM
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O.K. guys. Talk to me about the lumagen kazillian point calibration implementation with either Spectracal or Chromapure.

How does it compare to a well calibrated VT50?

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post #555 of 2157 Old 09-21-2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

O.K. guys. Talk to me about the lumagen kazillian point calibration implementation with either Spectracal or Chromapure.
How does it compare to a well calibrated VT50?

This should answer your question:



I have the Radiance remote set up so that MEMA is the 3D LUT and MEMB is the 1D display LUT calibration. This makes it easy to switch between the two and, yes, the 3D LUT is quite a bit better.

"kazillian" = 125 which is a minor player in the LUT world. Stand by for 64x64x64 cubes coming to the consumer market before too long - and it won't be including SpectraCal or ChromaPure, or at least these two companies don't seem to have any such plans. Another company does, however, and they're better at it than anyone. smile.gif

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post #556 of 2157 Old 09-21-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

O.K. guys. Talk to me about the lumagen kazillian point calibration implementation with either Spectracal or Chromapure.
How does it compare to a well calibrated VT50?

Noticable difference. Skin tones was the first thing I noticed. They are more natural than I've seen other than in person (depending on the source). After watching for a week I am seeing more and more differences.

Mike

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post #557 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Actually, if you have a Radiance and run the 125 point cube there is a substantial difference between that resulting picture and the one produced in the Custom or ISF modes using the 1D LUT controls. I have the Lumagen MEMA showing the cube and MEMB showing the ISF calibration sans cube so I can switch back and forth for demo purposes. The cube is quite a bit better.

As you know I don't have a Radiance,

However it looks as if the Radiance mini 3D will work with calman v5E as long as you get Lumagen's update free software for the 125 point cube. Now that brings the cost down to about $1500.

How easy is using the Radiance with CMV5.

ss
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post #558 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 07:32 AM
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Hey wmwilker and TopperMcFly, have either one of you's made any changes to your calibration settings since Panasonic updated their firmwares to v1.150 and again to 1.170? I would also like to thank you both for sharing your controlcal calibration settings.
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post #559 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post

Hey wmwilker and TopperMcFly, have either one of you's made any changes to your calibration settings since Panasonic updated their firmwares to v1.150 and again to 1.170? I would also like to thank you both for sharing your controlcal calibration settings.

I haven't. The firmware didn't affect my cal. I also have my Radiance Mini in the chain now so all of my changes have been through it.

Mike

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post #560 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

As you know I don't have a Radiance,
However it looks as if the Radiance mini 3D will work with calman v5E as long as you get Lumagen's update free software for the 125 point cube. Now that brings the cost down to about $1500.
How easy is using the Radiance with CMV5.
ss

SS I got my Mini a year or so ago and have been very happy with the purchase. Like Buzz said the results of the 125 pt calibration is a pretty big difference and Lumagen is known for their commitment to their products. Firmware is updated on a regular basis when needed. The only thing I would be concerned with in making a purchase like the Mini is 4K is not far on the horizon.

As you know I have Chromapure and the calibration process is very simple as I'm sure it is with CalMAN. I manually calibrated my grayscale and gamma and with a couple of mouse clicks the color cube is done is about 30 minutes.
Personally I think if the expense would not be a burden to me or my family then it is a pretty good investment.. But again with 4K coming I would think carefully about the purchase.

Mike

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post #561 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post

Hey wmwilker and TopperMcFly, have either one of you's made any changes to your calibration settings since Panasonic updated their firmwares to v1.150 and again to 1.170? I would also like to thank you both for sharing your controlcal calibration settings.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post

Hey wmwilker and TopperMcFly, have either one of you's made any changes to your calibration settings since Panasonic updated their firmwares to v1.150 and again to 1.170? I would also like to thank you both for sharing your controlcal calibration settings.

I haven't. The firmware didn't affect my cal. I also have my Radiance Mini in the chain now so all of my changes have been through it.

It would really be nice to have a definitive answer on this. My Viera Internet options have been rendered unusable as I have not updated. I have a calibrated set and don't want to screw up the results.


Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #562 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

It would really be nice to have a definitive answer on this. My Viera Internet options have been rendered unusable as I have not updated. I have a calibrated set and don't want to screw up the results.

If you're asking whether or not ISF calibration settings have been altered the answer is no, they have not.

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post #563 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by I WANT MORE View Post

It would really be nice to have a definitive answer on this. My Viera Internet options have been rendered unusable as I have not updated. I have a calibrated set and don't want to screw up the results.

If you're asking whether or not ISF calibration settings have been altered the answer is no, they have not.

Thank-you.


Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #564 of 2157 Old 09-23-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

SS I got my Mini a year or so ago and have been very happy with the purchase. Like Buzz said the results of the 125 pt calibration is a pretty big difference and Lumagen is known for their commitment to their products. Firmware is updated on a regular basis when needed. The only thing I would be concerned with in making a purchase like the Mini is 4K is not far on the horizon.
As you know I have Chromapure and the calibration process is very simple as I'm sure it is with CalMAN. I manually calibrated my grayscale and gamma and with a couple of mouse clicks the color cube is done is about 30 minutes.
Personally I think if the expense would not be a burden to me or my family then it is a pretty good investment.. But again with 4K coming I would think carefully about the purchase.

Thanks for the heads up about the 4K mini. I guess I can wait when I can get resaults like this.



Use at your own Risk. For personal use only.

ss

I used the new firmware (1.17) for my VT50, CMEV5 RC 2 and a newly downloaded and burnt AVSHD 709 disc. Yes this is a manual ISF Calibration.
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post #565 of 2157 Old 09-26-2012, 11:05 AM
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People who have been calibrating with Calman 4-5 is it hard to get a good setting. I wanted to watch the WEBINAR - NEW FEATURES IN CALMAN 5, but forgot about it. In the next two week in be getting 5 , but never used 4. Is it really hard to get good setting and learn or is there a really big learning curve if you dont do this every day. I could pay to get someone to do it. But i the person who like to learn and figure out things.

It be nice if someone made a tutorial on how to use it and the way they get good setting. I know every TV different but still. Only video i seen in this way is the AutoCal, but it seem you can get better result but doing it manually.

I want my VT50 to look the best it can be. It looks great now. But i know it call look allot better also.
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post #566 of 2157 Old 09-26-2012, 05:30 PM
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I did the latest firmware update on the VT50 and don't like it.

Is there any way to roll the firmware back?

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post #567 of 2157 Old 09-26-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
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People who have been calibrating with Calman 4-5 is it hard to get a good setting. I wanted to watch the WEBINAR - NEW FEATURES IN CALMAN 5, but forgot about it. In the next two week in be getting 5 , but never used 4. Is it really hard to get good setting and learn or is there a really big learning curve if you dont do this every day. I could pay to get someone to do it. But i the person who like to learn and figure out things.
It be nice if someone made a tutorial on how to use it and the way they get good setting. I know every TV different but still. Only video i seen in this way is the AutoCal, but it seem you can get better result but doing it manually.
I want my VT50 to look the best it can be. It looks great now. But i know it call look allot better also.

I have had Calman 3 ,4 and now 5. Each newer version seems to be easier to get good results that the past version, but non the less there is a pretty big learning curve depending on how exact you want to make your settings.
Calman 5 is fairly easy to use by going step by step with there workflow. If you get stumped just ask here or the good folks at calman, we have all been there and understand. Also calman 5 has autocal (except for the least expensive version) so that should help tide you over until you start to understand how to do a good grayscale and CMS.

In my posted settings using CalmanE 5 RC2, its all there for you to see what a good ISF calibration should look like using Calman 5. Look at the raw numbers, you will also see target numbers and also how close a calibration has come to a perfect ISF calibration. .The raw numbers correspond to the charts above, so when you do a calibrtion you would want to pay attention to both the charts and raw numbers and see how close you are getting your calibration to the target numbers and the charts for a visual comparison to the numbers.

ss
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post #568 of 2157 Old 09-26-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I did the latest firmware update on the VT50 and don't like it.
Is there any way to roll the firmware back?

Yes I wasn't very happy with the 1.17 firmware, but not because of PQ but because of doing a calibration. Anyway I worked around that problem I had, and all is well.
It would be interesting if there was a way to roll back, but I haven't read there is any way to roll back.

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post #569 of 2157 Old 09-26-2012, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I have had Calman 3 ,4 and now 5. Each newer version seems to be easier to get good results that the past version, but non the less there is a pretty big learning curve depending on how exact you want to make your settings.
Calman 5 is fairly easy to use by going step by step with there workflow. If you get stumped just ask here or the good folks at calman, we have all been there and understand. Also calman 5 has autocal (except for the least expensive version) so that should help tide you over until you start to understand how to do a good grayscale and CMS.
In my posted settings using CalmanE 5 RC2, its all there for you to see what a good ISF calibration should look like using Calman 5. Look at the raw numbers, you will also see target numbers and also how close a calibration has come to a perfect ISF calibration. .The raw numbers correspond to the charts above, so when you do a calibrtion you would want to pay attention to both the charts and raw numbers and see how close you are getting your calibration to the target numbers and the charts for a visual comparison to the numbers.
ss
So you have the full V5 or just Enthusiast Home theater?
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post #570 of 2157 Old 09-26-2012, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes I wasn't very happy with the 1.17 firmware, but not because of PQ but because of doing a calibration. Anyway I worked around that problem I had, and all is well.
It would be interesting if there was a way to roll back, but I haven't read there is any way to roll back.
ss
Which issues were you having with calibration with 1.17?
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