The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 2157 Old 06-11-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

This is what I was afraid of, and making it impossible to really calibrate the TV to reference. Without the working luminance controls the CMS is busted.
RGB 4:4:4 just means full color (no subsampling) with separated RGB channels. Granted there is two different luminance ranges for RGB. I didn't make up the definition smile.gif I'm just using what was already defined. Don't kill the messenger wink.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#4:4:4_R.27G.27B.27_.28no_subsampling.29
I too am seeing blue having way too much luminance with my RGB feed (almost +30%). There is no way to compensate for it. My green error isn't as bad as you describe, but it's there.
What size/type of patterns are you using for color calibration? I've tried small,media,large windows and APL versions. As well both 75% and 100%. Even with small windows I couldn't find any linearity measuring 75% and 100%; saturation wasn't consistent. Each one gave me different results frown.gif Which makes me think the TV will not track well from 0 to 100%.
Anyone know if there is a CMS fix in the works?

I think we all need to contact Panasonic support if we ever hope to have a fix for either the CMS or non-interpolating 10pt issue. Without support calls they probably figure it's not worth the FW update.

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post #92 of 2157 Old 06-11-2012, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

I think we all need to contact Panasonic support if we ever hope to have a fix for either the CMS or non-interpolating 10pt issue. Without support calls they probably figure it's not worth the FW update.

1-800-211-7262 until 9PM EST biggrin.gif
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post #93 of 2157 Old 06-11-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

This is what I was afraid of, and making it impossible to really calibrate the TV to reference. Without the working luminance controls the CMS is busted.
RGB 4:4:4 just means full color (no subsampling) with separated RGB channels. Granted there is two different luminance ranges for RGB. I didn't make up the definition smile.gif I'm just using what was already defined. Don't kill the messenger wink.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#4:4:4_R.27G.27B.27_.28no_subsampling.29
I too am seeing blue having way too much luminance with my RGB feed (almost +30%). There is no way to compensate for it. My green error isn't as bad as you describe, but it's there.
What size/type of patterns are you using for color calibration? I've tried small,media,large windows and APL versions. As well both 75% and 100%. Even with small windows I couldn't find any linearity measuring 75% and 100%; saturation wasn't consistent. Each one gave me different results frown.gif Which makes me think the TV will not track well from 0 to 100%.
Anyone know if there is a CMS fix in the works?

Not shooting the messenger. Just since chroma subsampling isn't a concept that means anything with respect to RGB I wanted to make sure you didn't mean something else.

Anyway, to answer your question I'm using the 10% size and 100% luminance/100% saturation windows from the new gamut calibration disk. I can switch my blu-ray player from YCbCr 4:2:2 to YCbCr 4:4:4 and my results stay the same: where all the color luminances are on the same side (high/low) of the desired value and the color control can be used to minimize the error. But if I leave everything else the same and just switch the blu-ray player to RGB and remeasure, red and blue are suddenly about 12-15% too bright and green is about 30% too dim. And that can't be fixed with the color control.

I asked D-Nice if he'd seen this before and he said "Nope." So for the time being I'm assuming it's a problem with my unit. Amazon is sending me a replacement so we'll see.
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post #94 of 2157 Old 06-11-2012, 10:05 PM
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Guys you may want to try this when using ISF mode.

1. Use 96K, 4.4.4, source direct, 24p auto settings on my Oppo BDP-95. The key words are source direct when using a calibration disc for colors and gray scale. And also in my VT50.
2. Set your bright, contrast, sharp and color.
3. Start with the 10pt gray scale, then check a 10 step gray scale pattern to be sure there is not tints of other colors, and check to see if your RGB luminous output are all the same.
4. Set your CMS. I like to use delta 94 here.
5. Go back to 10pt gray scale and touch it up, make sure 20% thru 100% settings are stable (10% close to stable), recheck 10 step gray pattern and RGB luminous levels.

Tip, when first setting your 10pt gray scale, set 100 percent white first and rough it in, then go to 10% drop your lume control to 0 and make small changes to your R/B (+/- 5% should be all you need to change controls).
Then take readings on 20% thru 90% just to see how your RGB is balancing and then go back to 20% thru 90% and set your gray scale .
Always make sure your CMS and 10pt gray scale settings are stable, (+/- 2%, depending on meter).
I use AVSHD for CMS and gray scale, warm 2, gamma 2.2. I don't use any disc to set the color control (tends to make color to saturated), so I use a setting of about 47 and what please my eyes best. I use a I1pro meter and Calman DIY, connect to my VT50 via LAN.

ss
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post #95 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Guys you may want to try this when using ISF mode.
1. Use 96K, 4.4.4, source direct, 24p auto settings on my Oppo BDP-95. The key words are source direct when using a calibration disc for colors and gray scale. And also in my VT50.
2. Set your bright, contrast, sharp and color.
3. Start with the 10pt gray scale, then check a 10 step gray scale pattern to be sure there is not tints of other colors, and check to see if your RGB luminous output are all the same.
4. Set your CMS. I like to use delta 94 here.
5. Go back to 10pt gray scale and touch it up, make sure 20% thru 100% settings are stable (10% close to stable), recheck 10 step gray pattern and RGB luminous levels.
Tip, when first setting your 10pt gray scale, set 100 percent white first and rough it in, then go to 10% drop your lume control to 0 and make small changes to your R/B (+/- 5% should be all you need to change controls).
Then take readings on 20% thru 90% just to see how your RGB is balancing and then go back to 20% thru 90% and set your gray scale .
Always make sure your CMS and 10pt gray scale settings are stable, (+/- 2%, depending on meter).
I use AVSHD for CMS and gray scale, warm 2, gamma 2.2. I don't use any disc to set the color control (tends to make color to saturated), so I use a setting of about 47 and what please my eyes best. I use a I1pro meter and Calman DIY, connect to my VT50 via LAN.
ss

I'll try that next time I mess with mine. When you set your panels gamma to 2.2 does it not make the gamma too low? I usually set mine to 2.4 on the panel and I target 2.2 in ChromaPure and I still have to adjust it to get it up to 2.2.

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post #96 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

I'll try that next time I mess with mine. When you set your panels gamma to 2.2 does it not make the gamma too low? I usually set mine to 2.4 on the panel and I target 2.2 in ChromaPure and I still have to adjust it to get it up to 2.2.

Same here. I have another VT50 calibration scheduled for Friday and will see if it is the same.

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post #97 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 08:01 AM
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BTW: I called Panasonic about the luminance controls and they want me to call a local service company. This should be interesting.

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post #98 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

BTW: I called Panasonic about the luminance controls and they want me to call a local service company. This should be interesting.

Interesting... Please update us when the tech comes out. I have a tech visiting on Thurs. for a different issue but I plan on mentioning the CMS issue to him.

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post #99 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Tempest261 View Post

Interesting... Please update us when the tech comes out. I have a tech visiting on Thurs. for a different issue but I plan on mentioning the CMS issue to him.

When I spoke to the guy he said they would probably change a board. I hope I haven't screwed up by messing with this but I'm going to stick it out. They aren't coming until the 22nd

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post #100 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 07:02 PM
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Guys, is anyone using the Disney WOW disc for basic calibration? I did some basic adjustments last night, and everything went well except for the advanced contrast test, which uses a white checkerboard pattern (also star patterns above and below). Supposedly, you adjust the contrast so that the elements labeled "ideal white" in the pattern look like white snow. But it seemed like no matter how I changed the contrast, the look of that test pattern didn't really change. Is anyone else having better luck with this? Thanks very much.
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post #101 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billharris4 View Post

Guys, is anyone using the Disney WOW disc for basic calibration? I did some basic adjustments last night, and everything went well except for the advanced contrast test, which uses a white checkerboard pattern (also star patterns above and below). Supposedly, you adjust the contrast so that the elements labeled "ideal white" in the pattern look like white snow. But it seemed like no matter how I changed the contrast, the look of that test pattern didn't really change. Is anyone else having better luck with this? Thanks very much.

Contrast (white level) is tricky, and somewhat less important to "get right", at least compared to brightness (black level). Most high-end TVs don't have trouble displaying most if not all of some contrast patterns. If you can see most if not all of the pattern, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd recommend setting contrast somewhere between 70-100, whatever looks good to your eye.

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Software: Spectracal Calman DIY, ControlCAL

 

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Samsung UN55D8000 (returned)
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post #102 of 2157 Old 06-12-2012, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

I'll try that next time I mess with mine. When you set your panels gamma to 2.2 does it not make the gamma too low? I usually set mine to 2.4 on the panel and I target 2.2 in ChromaPure and I still have to adjust it to get it up to 2.2.

No not at all, but don't forget I don't have ChromaPure. I would think that you may want to make sure your Y (light level) is close to ideal for each of your 10pt IRE settings, that should take care of you hitting your gamma setting, but not to say you can neglect your other levels because you can not.
I have spent some time seeing how Calman DIY and my I1Pro works in relation to the settings for my VT50.
Probably the most time I have spent is with IRE's is of 10 to 30%, once you understand how to get the 10 to 30% stable and correct the rest of your gray scale calibration should go fairly fast. But don't forget to go back to the next lowest IRE and recheck it if you make any changes to the IRE setting above or below. Check and recheck your gray scale settings to make sure they are correct and in harmony with the other 10pt IRE's and the rest of your settings.

As far as contrast go's, you don't really want to crank that setting to high, using Warm 2 and gamma target of 2.2. If you do you will end up crushing whites and get a washed out picture. eek.gif

Anyway the THX cinema has pretty good gray scale setting's, at least on my VT50.

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post #103 of 2157 Old 06-13-2012, 05:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

No not at all, but don't forget I don't have ChromaPure. I would think that you may want to make sure your Y (light level) is close to ideal for each of your 10pt IRE settings, that should take care of you hitting your gamma setting, but not to say you can neglect your other levels because you can not.
I have spent some time seeing how Calman DIY and my I1Pro works in relation to the settings for my VT50.
Probably the most time I have spent is with IRE's is of 10 to 30%, once you understand how to get the 10 to 30% stable and correct the rest of your gray scale calibration should go fairly fast. But don't forget to go back to the next lowest IRE and recheck it if you make any changes to the IRE setting above or below. Check and recheck your gray scale settings to make sure they are correct and in harmony with the other 10pt IRE's and the rest of your settings.
As far as contrast go's, you don't really want to crank that setting to high, using Warm 2 and gamma target of 2.2. If you do you will end up crushing whites and get a washed out picture. eek.gif
Anyway the THX cinema has pretty good gray scale setting's, at least on my VT50.
ss

Thanks ss. Right now I have a case open with Panasonic for the luminance controls and plan to see it through. I probably won't try any more calibrations until that it resolved. I will follow your tips and see how it works. Right now I'm pretty happy with my latest Day cal with the biggest problem being a little red tinge @ 10. It is barely noticeable but knowing it's there.....biggrin.gif. I'm very pleased with the the colors now and even with the contrast @ 100 I'm only getting 45 ftL so it's not eye scorching. I would not want to watch it in a dark room though.
Again, Thanks

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post #104 of 2157 Old 06-13-2012, 11:34 PM
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Tonight I started to watch a DVD and I noticed a purple line at the top of the picture and it ran the width of the screen. I tried a different DVD and I still got the same effect.
Normal cable, no line. I went into settings and adjusted the HD setting from 2 to 1. With the setting on 2, the full picture come thru and and 1 gives 95%.

Has anyone else noticed this and if so, is there another fix?

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post #105 of 2157 Old 06-14-2012, 03:07 AM
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mconner

Since it's not doing it on your cable source (presume that you're using a cable box) it sounds like it's your DVD player. Try another DVD player.

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post #106 of 2157 Old 06-14-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

mconner
Since it's not doing it on your cable source (presume that you're using a cable box) it sounds like it's your DVD player. Try another DVD player.

Thanks for the reply, I will try that. My DVD player is a Denon and had never seen this. I ruled out the movies as they are new. Is the hdmi cable any possibility?
Just trying to minimize anymore expense.

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post #107 of 2157 Old 06-14-2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Thanks ss. Right now I have a case open with Panasonic for the luminance controls and plan to see it through. I probably won't try any more calibrations until that it resolved. I will follow your tips and see how it works. Right now I'm pretty happy with my latest Day cal with the biggest problem being a little red tinge @ 10. It is barely noticeable but knowing it's there.....biggrin.gif. I'm very pleased with the the colors now and even with the contrast @ 100 I'm only getting 45 ftL so it's not eye scorching. I would not want to watch it in a dark room though.
Again, Thanks

Thank You for taking up the fight over the CMS Lume controls with Panasonic.

Ya I had that red tint problem with my Kuro 141 at 10% IRE and was using a much lower contrast setting. I don't have the red tint problem with my VT50, but I have given up trying to get my light level down to specs at 10% IRE.

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post #108 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmwilker View Post

Thanks ss. Right now I have a case open with Panasonic for the luminance controls and plan to see it through. I probably won't try any more calibrations until that it resolved. I will follow your tips and see how it works. Right now I'm pretty happy with my latest Day cal with the biggest problem being a little red tinge @ 10. It is barely noticeable but knowing it's there.....biggrin.gif. I'm very pleased with the the colors now and even with the contrast @ 100 I'm only getting 45 ftL so it's not eye scorching. I would not want to watch it in a dark room though.
Again, Thanks

Thank You for taking up the fight over the CMS Lume controls with Panasonic.

Ya I had that red tint problem with my Kuro 141 at 10% IRE and was using a much lower contrast setting. I don't have the red tint problem with my VT50, but I have given up trying to get my light level down to specs at 10% IRE.

ss

Sometimes you might need to fine tune 10IRE by eye in a completely dark room.

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post #109 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 05:56 AM
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Hi wmwilker.

I received my new Pana VT50, last week.

I'd like setting the run up values in the CMS adjustment.

Sorry I'm not an expert, but I know the the same setting changes results depending on the panel and different condition.
Anyway I have some questions, could you help me?

1) Run up: could I use the same setting for my old (beautiful) Kuro? Could you suggest some specific setting for run up?
2) When I will finish run up what kind of setting I can use in bright room? and in the night?

Thanks in advance

Sante
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post #110 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 06:01 AM
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Sorry is there any expert online that can help me?

Tks

Sante
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post #111 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 06:06 AM
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Hello

Is there any expert could help me for setting the break-in values for Pana VT50?

Thanks in advance.

Sante
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post #112 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 06:38 AM
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If you are running slides as a break in I would lower the contrast to the mid 70's and the brightness to the mid 50's. There are settings listed in this thread which you can try. D-Nice should be posting his settings soon over on the web site high def junkies.

Mike

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post #113 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 08:17 AM
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Thank you very much.
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post #114 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 03:15 PM
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To update I did full RGB calibrations, green was the furthest off in CMS and hardest to correct for. I posted the color tracking on HDJ. RGB has no major issues. My problems up to user error 1st time through.

-SiGGy
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post #115 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongiovi View Post

Not shooting the messenger. Just since chroma subsampling isn't a concept that means anything with respect to RGB I wanted to make sure you didn't mean something else.
Anyway, to answer your question I'm using the 10% size and 100% luminance/100% saturation windows from the new gamut calibration disk. I can switch my blu-ray player from YCbCr 4:2:2 to YCbCr 4:4:4 and my results stay the same: where all the color luminances are on the same side (high/low) of the desired value and the color control can be used to minimize the error. But if I leave everything else the same and just switch the blu-ray player to RGB and remeasure, red and blue are suddenly about 12-15% too bright and green is about 30% too dim. And that can't be fixed with the color control.
I asked D-Nice if he'd seen this before and he said "Nope." So for the time being I'm assuming it's a problem with my unit. Amazon is sending me a replacement so we'll see.

I'd concur with D-nice.

I had to adjust green a lot in the CMS (BTW luminance for green did move a bit as I adjusted hue and saturation and it was tricky to get it dialed in just right) However I got it dialed in decent. Did you see my tracking charts on HDJ?

I have not used slides, I'm just watching mixed content and I'm past 100 hours.

-SiGGy
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post #116 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 03:23 PM
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Has anyone noticed the noise reduction controls do anything?

Block?
Mosquito?

I have sat and played with the block NR on lots of different material and I don't see anything happening. I haven't scrutinized the mosquito NR much, I will tonight though.

-SiGGy
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post #117 of 2157 Old 06-15-2012, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

I'd concur with D-nice.
I had to adjust green a lot in the CMS (BTW luminance for green did move a bit as I adjusted hue and saturation and it was tricky to get it dialed in just right) However I got it dialed in decent. Did you see my tracking charts on HDJ?
I have not used slides, I'm just watching mixed content and I'm past 100 hours.

Try adjusting Blue when you are running green, I think you will find Blue has the biggest affect on green using the CMS controls.

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post #118 of 2157 Old 06-16-2012, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post

I'd concur with D-nice.
I had to adjust green a lot in the CMS (BTW luminance for green did move a bit as I adjusted hue and saturation and it was tricky to get it dialed in just right) However I got it dialed in decent. Did you see my tracking charts on HDJ?
I have not used slides, I'm just watching mixed content and I'm past 100 hours.

I couldn't find anything except your CIE chart for RGB, which wasn't my issue. It's the luminance that couldn't be fixed with only the color control operational. With YCbCr all the colors were either too bright or too dim so raising or lowering them all worked. With RGB some were too bright and some were too dim so what made some colors better made others worse (and verse visa).
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post #119 of 2157 Old 06-16-2012, 10:01 PM
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What is 10 Point White Balance?What should i use 10?or 20?

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post #120 of 2157 Old 06-16-2012, 11:00 PM
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What is 10 Point White Balance?What should i use 10?or 20?

The 10 point white balance is your gray scale (very important), it can be found in Custom settings, advanced tab. Basically its one part of ISF calibration settings.

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