The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 11:20 AM
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I have a 55VT50 and generally love it. However I am really struggling to use in daytime, as the picture is too dim. I've tried using all the viewing modes, and even adjusting them, but can't say the problem is resolved.

What viewing mode are you using in daytime? Any adjustments made to it?

I have seen many users report 'age' of their TVs in hours, that is how long they have been 'on'. Where can I see that info?

Thanks in advance.
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post #1802 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepalex View Post

I have a 55VT50 and generally love it. However I am really struggling to use in daytime, as the picture is too dim. I've tried using all the viewing modes, and even adjusting them, but can't say the problem is resolved.

What viewing mode are you using in daytime? Any adjustments made to it?

I have seen many users report 'age' of their TVs in hours, that is how long they have been 'on'. Where can I see that info?

Thanks in advance.

My set is pro calibrated but I use ISF Day(Based off custom) I can tell you panel brightness is mid and contrast is maxed out at 100. I find it sufficient for daytime viewing but not sure how much light is in your environment.

You need to access the service menu to check the hours, Here is the procedure just follow the instructions to the letter don't go exploring smile.gif

2012 Models : _ ST50 / GT50 / VT50
2011 Models : _X3 / S30 / ST30 / GT30 / VT30
2010 Models : _X24 / C2 / U2 / S2 / G20 / G25 / GT20 / GT25 / VT20 / VT25


• Press and hold the {VOL -} button ON THE PLASMA TV.
• Then press the {INFO} button on the remote control 3 times.


• "Start Adjustment Menu" message will be displayed followed
by the Service Menu after few seconds.


•ADJUST {Picture Adjustment}
•WB-ADJUST {White Balance Adjustment}
•OPTION {Option Setting}
•V-SUS {V-SUS Adjustment}
•AGING
•SRV-TOOL {Service Tool}




{1} & {2} buttons move through options



• Press the {2} button once to select "SRV-TOOL".


• Then press the {OK} button to access it.


• Using the cursor keys, highlight the right side
of the last item "PTCT :00.00.00.00.00" :






• Then press and hold the {MUTE} button for 3 seconds.


• Time and Count will be displayed in red color:





__TIME = Hours : Minutes of operation.
COUNT = Times the Plasma was powered on.

Hold down power button on TV to exit.

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post #1803 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepalex View Post

I have a 55VT50 and generally love it. However I am really struggling to use in daytime, as the picture is too dim. I've tried using all the viewing modes, and even adjusting them, but can't say the problem is resolved.

What viewing mode are you using in daytime? Any adjustments made to it?

I have seen many users report 'age' of their TVs in hours, that is how long they have been 'on'. Where can I see that info?

Thanks in advance.


If you set the HDMI content type to "Graphics" then the Vivid mode becomes tolerable. It has the backlight set to high and I believe it also uses AGC to keep the contrast up.

If you try it, you will likely want to go over all the settings, especially changing the color temperature to warm and turning the color management off.

EDIT: If you set the HDMI content mode to "Graphics" for an input ALL the modes become more usable. However, it does seem to affect the gamma in the THX Cinema mode a little. (It does not seem to affect it in the THX day mode). The setting seems to subdue/disable the picture effects. For example, as an experiment in custom mode try jacking up the AGC then changing the HDMI content from OFF to Graphics.
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post #1804 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

If you set the HDMI content type to "Graphics" then the Vivid mode becomes tolerable. It has the backlight set to high and I believe it also uses AGC to keep the contrast up.

If you try it, you will likely want to go over all the settings, especially changing the color temperature to warm and turning the color management off.

EDIT: If you set the HDMI content mode to "Graphics" for an input ALL the modes become more usable. However, it does seem to affect the gamma in the THX Cinema mode a little. (It does not seem to affect it in the THX day mode). The setting seems to subdue/disable the picture effects. For example, as an experiment in custom mode try jacking up the AGC then changing the HDMI content from OFF to Graphics.

I'd need sun glasses for those settings and no way that can be remotely accurate

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post #1805 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I'd need sun glasses for those settings and no way that can be remotely accurate

I've tried calibrating high several times on my TV. It's hard to keep gamma consistent, the minimal brightness gain simply isn't worth the trouble.

Looky here!
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post #1806 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I'd need sun glasses for those settings and no way that can be remotely accurate

Did you set the content type for the HDMI input to "Graphics"? It's unwatchable unless you do that.

Anyway, I thought you were combating sunlight and needed it really bright.
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post #1807 of 2157 Old 06-18-2013, 05:53 PM
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Not me that was someone else I get 51ftl out of my day mode more than bright enough for all my fay viewing your picture may be bright but I can guarantee the de errors are high

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post #1808 of 2157 Old 06-19-2013, 09:59 PM
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I've been having a problem in both Normal and Warm 2 color temps where dark scenes seemed to have an issue with grayscale, even though 10-100% readings where very good. After some good discussion and input, this go around I started by calibrating 80% in 2pt, and 5% instead of 20% with the low controls. It was suggested I calibrate to 5% on the low on end because something was obviously going on below 10%, and I found that be accurate.

I first calibrated Normal at 80 and 20, then ran grayscale at 5 and 10-100. What I found is 20-100 where pretty darn good, 10 had a little green spike, and 5 had a larger green spike. I then calibrated Warm 2 at 80 and 20, then ran grayscale at 5 and 10-100. Once again 20-100 was nice, 10 had a red spike and 5 had a red of 135%!!! This was my issue all along, even though I had 10-100 dialed in on adjustment, 5% was screwing up parts of the image. Looking at Normal vs Warm 2, I chose Normal because it would require less 10pt adjustment.

So, I calibrated RGB high for 80, low for 5%, then did the tweaking of 10-100 with 10pt adjustments. In between gamma and 10pt runs I had to go back and adjust brightness twice, playing with that 5% mark was throwing it off. After some tweaking and a couple of re-checks, everything settled down and I finished. I'm still shocked 10-100 could be so close yet 5 was awol, but you learn something new every day. I went ahead and checked my MLL as well, found it to be 0.0020fL, which is slightly lower than Ive been measuring since I purchased it.

Also not sure if anyone saw the owner's thread, but I measured a 0.0023fL in mid panel, and a 0.006fL in low panel. Its actually an obvious change and I know people like Chad had reported not to use Low, but its nice to see a number for yourself.

Anyways, here are the results. I went back and watched a couple of things I saved where it was an obvious red push, and that is now fixed so Im very happy.

Grayscale (0 is actually the 5% measurement)


Color
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post #1809 of 2157 Old 06-19-2013, 10:24 PM
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You might want to run a grayscale calibration at 5% intervals.

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post #1810 of 2157 Old 06-19-2013, 10:28 PM
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I thought about that, but thats for another time. Now that I have this figured out, next time I sit down to touch it up I can mess around more. Its getting late and I have to get up kinda early, so I stuck to my plan of fixing the low range problem and getting grayscale and gamma in line. That redness was just plain unbearable. Red and green push can ruin a perfectly good scene.

I used 10% sized windows and had no problem hitting a 2.25 gamma. The only pt that requires a good point of adjustment in 10pt gamma is 10%.

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post #1811 of 2157 Old 06-19-2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

I've tried calibrating high several times on my TV. It's hard to keep gamma consistent, the minimal brightness gain simply isn't worth the trouble.

With a 85 contrast setting and 10% sized window, I read 41fL on my 65" (mid panel). Thats almost too bright for me, but it sure gives it some pop.

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post #1812 of 2157 Old 06-20-2013, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Not me that was someone else I get 51ftl out of my day mode more than bright enough for all my fay viewing your picture may be bright but I can guarantee the de errors are high

Oh I'd never use that mode for critical viewing. I have to occasionally deal with a room that has sunlight in it and is well too bright. If HDMI content mode is Graphics and all the other settings have been adjusted from their defaults to correct settings, then I find the Vivid mode on a VT50 to be the best picture I've ever seen in a over-lit room.

In my opinion nuance is not relevant when watching in a bright room. The kind of cinematic presentation that relies on subtlety absolutely requires watching in the dark. In daylight your eyes are dilated, the effect of different brightness levels from scene to scene is completely buried, and you have likely some arbitrary white reference larger in your field of view than what's coming out of the set. The only thing that can be done to help is to brighten the picture.
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post #1813 of 2157 Old 06-20-2013, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

Oh I'd never use that mode for critical viewing. I have to occasionally deal with a room that has sunlight in it and is well too bright. If HDMI content mode is Graphics and all the other settings have been adjusted from their defaults to correct settings, then I find the Vivid mode on a VT50 to be the best picture I've ever seen in a over-lit room.

In my opinion nuance is not relevant when watching in a bright room. The kind of cinematic presentation that relies on subtlety absolutely requires watching in the dark. In daylight your eyes are dilated, the effect of different brightness levels from scene to scene is completely buried, and you have likely some arbitrary white reference larger in your field of view than what's coming out of the set. The only thing that can be done to help is to brighten the picture.

Okey dokey enjoy
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post #1814 of 2157 Old 06-20-2013, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

If you set the HDMI content type to "Graphics" then the Vivid mode becomes tolerable. It has the backlight set to high and I believe it also uses AGC to keep the contrast up.

But how do I access this 'content type' settings? I've been all over the Options, but could not find it.

PS Thanks everyone for their input, but sometimes it seems I have a different TV... eg where is the 'Custom' viewing mode?..
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post #1815 of 2157 Old 06-20-2013, 03:34 PM
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OK. So, I decided to tinker some more today, I'm off so what the hell. After doing more research, I noticed some comments from ChadB on this site in a VT50 calibration thread:
Quote:
"The controls get displaced more and more as the contrast is lowered, as it is in most night mode calibrations. In other words, they start on track at the low end, and then start to control a slightly higher range than labeled as they go up the scale. By 90%, depending on the contrast setting, the 90% controls are actually controlling the area around 95% more than they are the area around 90%. They still have some effect at 90%, but there's stuff going on at 95% that isn't intended. At 100%, the 100% band still works (at somewhat reduced effectiveness), but it's actually controlling WTW more than 100%.

If the contrast is left high near 100 then this does not happen.

Yes, the 2 pt controls can be used to minimize any in between band white balance errors. I like to use 100% and 20% as starting points for the 2 pt adjustment and then take a full run to see if dE can be reduced further across the board with small additional tweaks. Care has to be taken to avoid reddish blacks, because of the way the VT50's grayscale tracking tends to be in the ISF/Custom modes.

I have gotten beautiful results, very smooth continuous gray ramps with no banding, on the VT50 keeping these things in mind."

I had also been told by another calibrator to try 100 and 20, instead of 80 and 20. I also noticed in D-nice's settings he did not touch 2pt Low, and I did not understand that because he uses Normal and it has a green spike. I decided to try the 100 and 20 approach with 2pt. What I found in both Normal and Warm 2, once again, when 100 was dialed in with 2pt High, 5% was either overly green (Normal) or red (Warm2). I then went back to what Chad said, since he'd obviously noticed these red blacks too.

What I ended up doing was adjusting to 100 stimuli with the High controls, then seeing how 5% was without even messing with the Low controls. Red spike... So, I found as I lowered red and increase blue on the High controls, 5% began to shift from a red spike to a blue spike. To get 5% in a better condition (blue high), it only took me inducing a 100% error of dE 6 (blue high to fix red at 5%), which could easily be corrected in 10pt. I also noticed now that both 5% and 10% stimuli had the same type error, red and blue high and green low. I found as I dialed 10% in with 10pt, 5% tamed down some, but not a lot. It still ended up better than the huge red spike IMHO. So, I basically never touched the 2pt Low controls, I just calibrated with the High controls until 100% and 5% were to my liking, and then did the rest in 10pt. I calibrated to a 2.2 gamma, then went on to color which I did at 75%Sat/75% Amp. This is actually the best color chart Ive seen, and Im not sure why, unless its related to Warm2 vs me using Normal, or the higher Contrast setting (I used 95 this go around). Thank god for ControlCal, this is too much work for Custom and jumping thru menu's. All of this is ISF Night, and here are the results. I'll watch em for a few days and see how it looks, if something becomes an issue it'll be back to the drawing board...

Grayscale


Gamma


Color

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post #1816 of 2157 Old 06-20-2013, 03:45 PM
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Oh, and 10% window at 95 contrast is 42.5fL for me. I also started wondering if maybe I was setting Brightness wrong all these years, and what got me thinking it is the ways plasmas act as you lower Brightness.

My philosophy had always been to get close to the screen, and make sure I had it low enough that there was no hint of dither in the video black area. What that method does on this VT50 is sets brightness a couple of clicks too low, because the 17 bar is not visible at all from my chair. I spent a little time tinkering with Brightness from my seat, and it makes sense to me. Plus I have been informed by two THX guys so far that nose to the screen isn't really the best method smile.gif

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post #1817 of 2157 Old 06-21-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepalex View Post

But how do I access this 'content type' settings? I've been all over the Options, but could not find it.

PS Thanks everyone for their input, but sometimes it seems I have a different TV... eg where is the 'Custom' viewing mode?..

If you press the MENU button and go to the PICTURE settings, at the top is a selectable mode. One option is "Custom". (The others are Cinema, THX Cinema, THX Cinema Bright Room, Game, Standard, and Vivid as I recall). That is assuming you have the same TV smile.gif

If you scroll down the menu you arrive at an HDMI option where you can change the content type for each HDMI input. Be aware this affects all of the viewing modes.

If you try this with the Vivid settings, you'll need to change other settings as well, but it will give you a bright picture if someone insists on keeping the blinds open or something. Obviously calibrating to set them is best. Here's what it should roughly look like:

Brightness 50
Contrast (to preference - any setting works)
Color 46 to 50
Tint 50
Sharpness 0, (you may prefer as high as 50, but definitely take it down from the Vivid default)
Color Management OFF (there are fairly serious viewers who actually like it though)
C.A.T.S. OFF
Noise Reduction: Weak or off
Color temperature: Warm 2

Changing the color temperature is the most important to restore a more accurate picture.
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post #1818 of 2157 Old 06-21-2013, 04:52 PM
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Well, using some stuff Ive kept around on my DVR (red skin tones, red blacks, greenish blacks), I still had a slight issue with my last calibration above, plus I think 95 contrast was a bad move. FYI, I have THX Cinema calibrated on this display by a pro, so I can use it as reference flipping back and forth, granted some of these issues in Custom/ISF Ive run in to are blatent to the eye. The reason I am trying ISF modes is because while THX CInema looks good, it is a tad dim for me.

So, I punted, and tried a different approach today. I threw in Spears and Munsil 2nd gen, and used it for the calibration. Up until now I had stayed away from the equal energy patterns but I figured what the hell at this point. I also went back to Normal Color Temp, Ive not been successful at all with Warm 2.

The equal energy grayscale patterns are quite nice and offered results that were quite consistent. One wild thing was that with the 2.4 gamma setting, you got a 2.4 gamma result almost the entire way across. 10% was low, as Ive always seen and need adjustment, but it was about the only point I had to adjust to get it flat. So that is a BIG shift from the other pattern discs using 10% and 6.5% windows. I was really surprised that 70-90 did not have some sort of drop, because the patterns have a lot of white on the screen when they are up, but I wont even pretend to act like I understand how they work. Zoyd could better do that.

The only drawback is their gamut patterns offer 25-100% amplitude, but all are 100% saturation. So instead of calibrating to 75% amp/75% sat, I had to do 75% Amp/100% saturation. Finally, I noticed the grayscale results when doing 2pt were not what Id seen with other discs, so I cant explain that either.

After finishing I threw in DVE and used some of the demo material, fleshtones look good. I fired up the DVR and looked at Game Of Thrones, Longmire (bad red issue in fleshtones) and watched some Fifth Element and Dark Shadows on the premium channels. I cant find anything to complain about right now, I mean it looks good on everything Ive had a problem with the last 2 weeks in my experimentation. Once again, having THX Cinema calibrated by a smarter person than me with a better meter helps to for comparison smile.gif. Finally, what I find with the equal energy grayscale patterns is that 100% maxed out at 34.5fL, regardless of whether I used 85 Contrast or 95. Sometimes as you got over 85 it would drop, very odd... I always set brightness with Spears, so that was no different.

Grayscale (avg dE under 1, avg Color Temp 6512, avg Gamma 2.41)


Gamma (2.4 target)


Gamut

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post #1819 of 2157 Old 06-21-2013, 04:55 PM
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I meant to post that here this morning, but put it in the wrong thread. ^^^^^^


So far Ive viewed Warm Bodies on Blu-ray, Fifth Element on a premium channel, CSI Vegas recorded OTA and Swamp People off History HD. This is personally the best Ive seen this display look. Lot of pop in day and night shots, inky blacks with no red or green issues, and fleshtones look very good. I hope it continues to impress, I may have found something that works for me.

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post #1820 of 2157 Old 06-21-2013, 05:15 PM
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I meant to post that here this morning, but put it in the wrong thread. ^^^^^^


So far Ive viewed Warm Bodies on Blu-ray, Fifth Element on a premium channel, CSI Vegas recorded OTA and Swamp People off History HD. This is personally the best Ive seen this display look. Lot of pop in day and night shots, inky blacks with no red or green issues, and fleshtones look very good. I hope it continues to impress, I may have found something that works for me.

OCD is a pain in the neck...

You will be back at it again in a couple of days with a new approach.

Have your wife hide your calibration gear before you go loco..eek.gif
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post #1821 of 2157 Old 06-21-2013, 05:24 PM
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LOL. I hope not. Once I figured out the GT30 I never touched it. I really did not start playing with calibration on this VT50 until a couple of months ago, ive only had it since March. I found the same thing when I spent a lot of time with the D7000, it took a lot of practice but once you figured out a good method it was easy. Aftrer having calibrated displays I cant handle red faces and red or green darker areas. Drives me crazy. So far their disc is definitely the best Ive seen this display look.

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post #1822 of 2157 Old 06-21-2013, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

So far Ive viewed Warm Bodies on Blu-ray, Fifth Element on a premium channel, CSI Vegas recorded OTA and Swamp People off History HD. This is personally the best Ive seen this display look. Lot of pop in day and night shots, inky blacks with no red or green issues, and fleshtones look very good. I hope it continues to impress, I may have found something that works for me.
I have the original Spears & Munsil BluRay, so I don't know if the opening collage on the 2nd Edition is the same.

But at 02:45 into the opening collage there is a frame that I use as my own "reference" test, when comparing calibrations or settings. This is a shot of a red brick wall on a college campus building, with incredibly detailed bricks that obviously should have a reddish "brick color" that we're expecting. Off to the right is a brilliant blue sky by contrast.

This shot is a fantastic way to see how red and blue appears on your screen. Also, because of the blue sky and right side of the red brick wall on the right side of the screen, you can go into the Panny's menu and navigate between the various settings you have that have been stored in say ISF/Day, ISF/Night, Custom, THX etc, and prove to yourself which one absolutely looks the best.

The incredible brick detail also allows you to evaluate sharpness and all the other image characteristics in your settings.

Here's that frame:



Of course the entire opening collage on the S&M disc provides a terrific test for natural color (water blue, sky blue, foliage green, brick red, American flag red, etc.). But this particular frame will easily point out that you do or do not have your red/saturation set so that the bricks look exactly as you'd expect and not more brownish or terra cotta, while the blue sky should also look brilliant clear sky blue, and not "off" a bit.

I've used the right side of this frame to compare the three ISF calibrations I've had done on my 65VT50 A-to-B-to-C as well as "Panny factory Custom", and it was super-easy to pick "the winner" with this test frame. No contest in the A-to-B-to-C shootout.
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post #1823 of 2157 Old 06-22-2013, 05:33 AM
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I agree. I also use the demo stuff on the DVE disc.

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post #1824 of 2157 Old 06-22-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by turbe View Post

Light is the correct setting. With Dark, you are going to lose detail on the lowend when your display is properly calibrated.. and to properly calibrate the VT50, the setting will need to be set to Light when the Inputs/Sources are set for TV Legal Video Levels.

Use what you like but I do recommend you get/do a proper calibration so you take full advantage of what the VT50 is capable of.

I know this is an OLD post, but...

...I just checked out the effect of switching Black Level using a test pattern that showed both "below black" and "above white" (as well as the full range between). After adjusting the brightness and contrast to compensate the only difference I could observe was that with the DARK setting the darkest visible black was as dark as possible and the lightest visible white was as bright as possible. With the LIGHT setting, there was headroom to have below black and above white darker/lighter, though of course you'd be wasting range if you set it that way.

So there didn't seem to be any functional difference after adjusting brightness and contrast with either setting as long as you're watching a normal media source (16-235). I watched a few things with the adjusted DARK setting and it did seem that faces were further up out of the shadows at the same gamma setting, so maybe it impacts the gamma curve.

Frankly it didn't look too bad. The lighting looked more film like to me as opposed to glossy video, but - heh - that may have just been a depreciation. I put it back to the light setting, but thought I'd see if anyone could explain it further.
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post #1825 of 2157 Old 06-22-2013, 07:19 PM
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I just discovered this afternoon that I can open two controlcal windows and load different calibrations into each one. This is without loading anything into the VT50.

Makes it a lot easier to compare calibrations.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #1826 of 2157 Old 06-22-2013, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I just discovered this afternoon that I can open two controlcal windows and load different calibrations into each one. This is without loading anything into the VT50.

Makes it a lot easier to compare calibrations.

Brilliant! Thanks for sharing!
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post #1827 of 2157 Old 06-22-2013, 08:05 PM
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How?
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post #1828 of 2157 Old 06-22-2013, 10:14 PM
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How?

I launch controlcal from an icon on my desktop.

After launching it the first time, I double ckeck the icon a second time. Then drag the top window over and it reveals the second window from under it.

Then on each one, I use the "load settings" feature and load the setttings set from the computer file into each one separately.

Remember, I'm not retrieving setting from the display. I'm not accessing the TV.

The object of doing this is to compare the numerical values of the setting, not the actual picture. You can do that by switching the picture mode between ISF memories.

I'm thinking if it allows me to load two instances of controcal, it'll probably allow me to load additional ones as well.


Turbe.....any issues in doing this?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #1829 of 2157 Old 06-23-2013, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

The object of doing this is to compare the numerical values of the setting, not the actual picture.
For all types of A-to-B two-pane side-by-side comparisons such as folder/file contents, file/file contents (both text and binary, etc.), etc., for my money there's none better than Beyond Compare. Don't need to open two side-by-side ControlCal windows.

For example, comparing two ControlCal XML settings file that I have (done by two separate ISF calibrators), here's the output from Beyond Compare showing both "equals" and "differences" (color highlighted). There's the alternative presentation that shows "differences only".



I could not live without Beyond Compare
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post #1830 of 2157 Old 06-23-2013, 04:46 AM
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DSperber

Nice find on the software.

But a much larger question is which of the two calibrations looked better to you?

They obviously took two separate approaches.

What size and type window patterns did they use?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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