The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 2157 Old 09-04-2013, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I did hear right now with the current technology it is easier to produce a curved screen, not sure where I read that maybe in the CNET review.
I ask our engineer insider why LG and Samsung chose to start with curved screens, and his reply was "because they can." wink.gif
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post #1982 of 2157 Old 09-04-2013, 01:21 PM
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Just curious smile.gif

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post #1983 of 2157 Old 09-04-2013, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

I think the whites on my screen are less affected by the ABL. If I understand correctly if you calibrate it to ~24FtL you don't have the ABL kicking in and from what I understand part of the issue of a white not being white (Aside from uniformity) is the ABL behavior on it.

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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Yes Mo that is a major factor, but I can say my day mode which is maxed out contrast wise does not exibit dirty whites in 95% of content so I must not be triggering abl either. On a side note I think the whole ABL thing is blown way out of proportion due to certain zealots smile.gif

ABL is always working in plasmas to one degree or another.

Also, White is nothing more than equal parts R, G, & B. Gray shades are Whites at lower luminance levels. The perception of White is based on the highest luminace area - 1. Two TVs side by side, one with 50 FtL White and the other with 35 FtL. One looks White, the other appears "dirty" even when they are both correct at D65. 2. Red is clipped at the top "White" luminance level making it actually somewhat Blue. Lower levels are correct at D65, but they appear pinkish between the brain thinks the clipped end of the Grayscale is the correct White.

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post #1984 of 2157 Old 09-04-2013, 03:28 PM
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Buzz, since we got an expert involved now would be a good time to get some good info smile.gif

When you say ABL is always working to different degrees, I think we get that, but what we aren't understanding is its influence on the picture being displayed. If the screen hits a low enough brightness level where the ABL logic doesn't need to limit any more brightness, what is its affect(s) on the picture in that scenario?

Also, people talk about the ABL kicking in and skewing the color accuracy at much brighter levels, can you tell us what's happening there?

Thanks
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post #1985 of 2157 Old 09-04-2013, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

When you say ABL is always working to different degrees, I think we get that, but what we aren't understanding is its influence on the picture being displayed. If the screen hits a low enough brightness level where the ABL logic doesn't need to limit any more brightness, what is its affect(s) on the picture in that scenario?

The best example is the luminance reduction we see viewing hockey games when the camera pans from a darker average scene to one with a lot of bright ice and the luminance drops immediately. This is not to be confused with the arena strobes triggered by professionals' cameras which most find more obnoxious than ABL. Other than this scenario most ABL is hardly noticed except for a few people who are particularly sensitive. Basically, gamma is affected and cannot be well controlled. In calibration, different pattern sizes yield different results along with the question of whether to use these windows patterns on a black background or a changing background to try and keep the APL (average picture level) the same. The bottom line is that there is no correct answer and although many studios and post production houses are still using plasmas, many are switching to LCD and most likely soon to OLED, and we will too.

Meanwhile, plasma is by far the best bang for the buck because of superior black levels, both darkness and the lack of flashlighting and clouding found on edge lit LED LCDs. This gives us better dynamic range (contrast ratio) despite not being as bright on the high end and contrast ratio is the single most important factor in picture quality. You really can't go wrong with a Panasonic ST, GT, VT, or ZT so stick with what you have until OLED becomes affordable.


Quote:
Also, people talk about the ABL kicking in and skewing the color accuracy at much brighter levels, can you tell us what's happening there?

ABL reduces the luminance of color as well as white. This is in fact part of "accuracy" but does not reduce color saturation as some believe. Personally, I'm insensitive to the change and find it to be no big deal, but that's me. You? smile.gif
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post #1986 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 04:59 AM
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Buzz thanks for all the additional info and I feel the same as you, ABL doesn't bother me at all smile.gif

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post #1987 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I ask our engineer insider why LG and Samsung chose to start with curved screens, and his reply was "because they can." wink.gif

I always figured they were trying to mimic movie theater screens (at least newer ones) which often have curved screens.

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post #1988 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 09:03 AM
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Good point David, I think they are trying to deliver a more immersive experience but at the smaller screen size probably not all that effective

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post #1989 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 09:57 AM
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Thanks Buzz!

Yes, I don't notice it at all with my calibrated modes. The only time I can see it starting to work is if I go into custom mode and turn on panel brightness high - and also in 3d mode. The effect is only slightly distracting in 3D.
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post #1990 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 10:53 AM
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I mostly just hate APL because of the uncertainty it adds to the calibration process itself. I rarely actually see it in content. But even the color readings seem a bit different if I sample larger APL patterns or smaller.
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post #1991 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbillen View Post

I mostly just hate APL because of the uncertainty it adds to the calibration process itself. I rarely actually see it in content. But even the color readings seem a bit different if I sample larger APL patterns or smaller.

You mean ABL right bro ? smile.gif But you are correct it does effect calibration results

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post #1992 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You mean ABL right bro ? smile.gif But you are correct it does effect calibration results

I thought the terms were interchangeable. Guess I'll stick with "ABL".
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post #1993 of 2157 Old 09-05-2013, 02:54 PM
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Abl is auto brightness limiter apl is average picture level

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post #1994 of 2157 Old 09-13-2013, 12:14 PM
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Bump for dcal

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post #1995 of 2157 Old 10-18-2013, 03:13 PM
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Hi all, I just noticed this week that I have the yellow blobs of doom, which I noticed while watching normal non-white content. I'll get all my information and call Panasonic tonight (if they're open) or as soon as possible. I'll document this post as to how long it takes them to resolve the issue between when I call in and have a final fix. Hopefully less than a month.


 

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post #1996 of 2157 Old 10-27-2013, 12:10 PM
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I set up my equipment for some calibration runs last night and was hopeful to finally have a workable ISF Night mode. I had finally figured out how to skip or modify the 2pt grayscale in order to avoid the red bias and black crush that I was experiencing with previous attempts. However, I am now finding that I need to max out saturation on both Blue and Green. I can get still get delta E below 1.0 for Green but I am still low on saturation for Blue and the best I can do on delta E is about 3.0. And Blue just does not look right.

I made these runs using a D3 Pro that was profiled to my i1 Pro. I also ran thru a calibration just using the i1 Pro and the result was similar. I was using AutoCal in Calman5 but I went back and made some minor improvements (reducing luminance to increase saturation) using manual adjustments but Blue still looks wrong.

What really concerns me is that the very first time I calibrated the TV (using ChromaPure), I did have to max out saturation for Green but ended up with only +2 for Blue saturation. Other than using the two different calibration programs, the only other significant difference is that I used "Normal" color temp with ChromaPure and I used "Warm2" color temp last night when running Calman. I need to go back and try Normal for future runs but I did not think color temp could have such a significant impact on CMS settings.

Any ideas why a TV that is suppose to have relatively accurate colors out-of-the-box would require max'ing out saturation ? Anything else I should try other than changing color temp ?

Sean
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post #1997 of 2157 Old 10-27-2013, 12:36 PM
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@stash64: there is no way get blue saturation accurate on this set, it is limited

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post #1998 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 10:58 AM
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Well that's a bummer. Is this a trait of plasmas in general or just the VT50 or other Panasonic plasmas ?

The Blue problem was unexpected because it was not an issue on my very first attempt to calibrate after putting about 150 hours on the TV. I used my i1 Pro that time and Green was the only challenging color.

I am hearing more buzz from my TV of late and now I wonder if this could lead to other performance issues.

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post #1999 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lentiman View Post

Hi all, I just noticed this week that I have the yellow blobs of doom, which I noticed while watching normal non-white content. I'll get all my information and call Panasonic tonight (if they're open) or as soon as possible. I'll document this post as to how long it takes them to resolve the issue between when I call in and have a final fix. Hopefully less than a month.

Check the last page or two of the yellow blob thread.

One user of a Panasonic plasma that doesn't come with fans had the yellow blob ind by adding a couple of computer fans was able to eliminate the yellow blobs.

At least in his case, the yellow blobs are heat related.

Although I don't have yellow blobs, as a preventative measure I'm adding some additional fans to my VT50.

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post #2000 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 02:16 PM
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Jim, you are adding fans? May I ask if you have yours wall mounted or not? I'm curious if extra fans is something I would ever need to consider if my tv is on a table top.....which gets me thinking, have all yellow blob reports come from people with wall mounts...

hmmm
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post #2001 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Jim, you are adding fans? May I ask if you have yours wall mounted or not? I'm curious if extra fans is something I would ever need to consider if my tv is on a table top.....which gets me thinking, have all yellow blob reports come from people with wall mounts...

hmmm

Mine's on a stand. Fans came this afternoon but didn't have the gorilla tape to mount them. smile.gif

As to your question about the yellow blobs being a result of heat not dissipating due to wall mounting.... I don't know.

You might want to run a poll on it. Be sure to specify that it's only for the VT50s. Some other models apparently have the same problem and you'd want to keep the poll clean.

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post #2002 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post


At least in his case, the yellow blobs are heat related.

Although I don't have yellow blobs, as a preventative measure I'm adding some additional fans to my VT50.

How about switching to "low" panel brightness ? Could even try the energy saving mode. I've been thinking about trying to calibrate using low panel brightness to see if there are any benefits. I think it could improve color saturation and also tone down the buzzing noise from the video board(s). Perhaps it will help to prevent the yellow blob.

Sean
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post #2003 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 07:33 PM
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Thanks for the reply. I haven't seen blobs yet thankfully either
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post #2004 of 2157 Old 10-28-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Thanks for the reply. I haven't seen blobs yet thankfully either

Me neither. I have close to 3K hours on mine and no blobs. Mine is on a stand with plenty of ventilation.

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post #2005 of 2157 Old 10-29-2013, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

How about switching to "low" panel brightness ? Could even try the energy saving mode. I've been thinking about trying to calibrate using low panel brightness to see if there are any benefits. I think it could improve color saturation and also tone down the buzzing noise from the video board(s). Perhaps it will help to prevent the yellow blob.

Mid panel brightness is borderline bright enough in my fairly bright living room. I really wouldn't consider doing anything to go dimmer. I wouldn't mind going to high panel brightness if there was a way to do that with a fairly accurate picture without resorting to cube calibration.

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post #2006 of 2157 Old 10-29-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Mid panel brightness is borderline bright enough in my fairly bright living room. I really wouldn't consider doing anything to go dimmer. I wouldn't mind going to high panel brightness if there was a way to do that with a fairly accurate picture without resorting to cube calibration.

If I calibrated to "low" panel brightness, it would be for the ISF Night mode. I agree that, for daytime viewing, the screen would get washed out. I find that "medium" is just fine for the ISF Day mode.

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post #2007 of 2157 Old 11-26-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

I've just had an odd experience. Watching tv and all of a sudden a green screen comes up and a loud piercing beep noise and then it freezes and eventually stops and says 'error detected and recovered'.

Anyone know what this is? Could this be because I just added the ISFxxx slots last night?

I have this happen at least once or twice a month on this TV since I got it
It usually occurs when streaming Netflix through the TV
Not sure what it could be. I can't find much on this problem
I have updated everything that I thought it could be and it still persists.
While watching all of a sudden the loud ear piercing beep and green screen comes on. I can't do anything other than unplug the surge. I can't just turn off power on the remote or side of TV
It has to be completely unplugged for it to go away
Driving me crazy
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post #2008 of 2157 Old 11-26-2013, 04:14 PM
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If its under warranty they will come replace the main board. Panasonic support was fantastic on this one in that they literally insisted they come fix it so that the issue didn't affect my vt's longevity. The replaced the main board in my house. It took about 30 minutes for the technician to do it. If your tv is wall mounted you will have to take it off prior to removal. I've never had that error again since.
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post #2009 of 2157 Old 01-02-2014, 08:18 AM
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Was there ever a D-Nice NIGHT TIME or dark room settings list posted? Seems like 94 might be kind of high for contrast for a dark room. I've decreased it to 82 but just wondering if I'm in the right ballpark.

Thanks
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post #2010 of 2157 Old 01-02-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Jim, you are adding fans? May I ask if you have yours wall mounted or not? I'm curious if extra fans is something I would ever need to consider if my tv is on a table top.....which gets me thinking, have all yellow blob reports come from people with wall mounts...

hmmm

Hey Mo,

I had the blobs and no wall mount

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