The Official Panasonic VT50 Settings Thread - Page 70 - AVS Forum
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post #2071 of 2165 Old 01-29-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

The C3 is based on the Colormunki Smile, which is basically an updated Chroma 5 that looks like an i1Display 2.

I agree with gadgetfreak, manually entering 0.002 should be close enough. An i1D3 or C6 are good reasonably priced meters that can measure low-light fairly accurately (good to about 0.001).

Yep, I've been eyeballing the C6, which seems like a really good meter, and reasonably priced in the realm of good meters. Though it's still $695, so I've been hesitant given that I'd be using it only on occasion and strictly for personal use... I think the i1D3 will be my next meter...
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post #2072 of 2165 Old 01-29-2014, 04:27 PM
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In case you didn't know, the C6 is based on the D3, but it's a bit faster, includes more correction tables, is NIST certified and includes a tripod and case. The D3 itself is pretty fast already.
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post #2073 of 2165 Old 01-29-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

In case you didn't know, the C6 is based on the D3, but it's a bit faster, includes more correction tables, is NIST certified and includes a tripod and case. The D3 itself is pretty fast already.

I did see a lot of resemblance between the two in terms of the external housing, but didn't realize the C6 was literally based on the D3... Yes, I checked the specs on Spectracal's site and noted the NIST certification and other details you mentioned.... Since it seems to be more or less a "turbo" version of the D3, I'm fine with the D3 for my use... Thanks for the info!
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post #2074 of 2165 Old 01-29-2014, 04:47 PM
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Btw, anyone knows a good deal on an i1D3? Or is it best to just get it from Spectracal?
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post #2075 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:02 PM
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Just as an update: Got the gamma curve right this time, but still had to go to 2.6 gamma on the VT50 to be able to increase it where it needs to be in that 10 and 20% range. MLL was manually set to 0.002, which did change the curve appropriately. I am still not entirely happy. I don't seem to be benefiting from better detail, and the picture is a little too dark now overall. I feel I'm rather missing details... Plus, I still want to believe that with 2.4 gamma I am supposed to be able to get a proper 1886 curve... This was a quick "patch" job though, as I just jumped right into 10pt grayscale and corrected it.... Maybe I should start from scratch. Also, if I set the MLL manually, should I skip the 0% measurement completely (i.e. use 10pt. instead of 11pt scale)? I did my share of calibrations and am not a newbie, but not a pro either and haven't quite had this situation before... so thanks for everyone's comments and experience...
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post #2076 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:16 PM
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I think overall, next time Chad comes through I may go to a 2.3 power curve or something of the sort. To be honest, my last night mode was 2.27 avg and it looked outstanding. Id say 80% of the time 1886 looks good, but I do see some issues.

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post #2077 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:23 PM
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On my VT60, I am finding some issues with bt1886 on older released titles. It's very evident the vast majority were done somewhere closer to 2.2. Even when I use 2.3 power on them, some still look to be slightly crushing - or near crushing - near black detail. Something like 2.27 might be almost perfect on these at least to my subjective take on them. Some catalogs look fine with bt1886 though.

bt1886 is looking very good on almost all newer releases - although 2.3 power still looks damn good also and at times a little preferable.

I watch mostly Blu-ray and haven't done a lot of comparions to cable, but usually go with 2.3 on 60hz (as it was calibrated to that) which looks very good as my bt1886 was calibrated at 96hz and will for sure crush on 60hz material since the black levels are higher.

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post #2078 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:43 PM
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I think for dark room blu-rays, 1886 would be fine all the time.

I may aim for a 1080p/24 96hz cal for "night mode" and a 1080p/60 power power curve for a regular mode.

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post #2079 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I think overall, next time Chad comes through I may go to a 2.3 power curve or something of the sort. To be honest, my last night mode was 2.27 avg and it looked outstanding. Id say 80% of the time 1886 looks good, but I do see some issues.

Yeah, I am starting to wonder if 1886 is truly the best way to go... Theoretically it sounds good, but like you said, I am also experiencing issues with it and am not quite seeing the benefits yet.... I'll still give it a shot with a calibration from scratch and with a better meter, but currently it's not yet working for me... My 2.3 power curve calibration from before still looks better to me too... Let's see...
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post #2080 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:55 PM
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My biggest issue with the 1886 mode is that I cant stand to look at the 2.2 gamma day mode now lol.

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post #2081 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post

Yeah, I am starting to wonder if 1886 is truly the best way to go... Theoretically it sounds good, but like you said, I am also experiencing issues with it and am not quite seeing the benefits yet.... I'll still give it a shot with a calibration from scratch and with a better meter, but currently it's not yet working for me... My 2.3 power curve calibration from before still looks better to me too... Let's see...

I like the 2.3 power with a taper at the lower end, there is a custom gamma that goes from 2.1 to 2.3 in Calman that I used for that calibration. Gadget completely agree on 2.2 how did we ever stomach that ? lol

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post #2082 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 02:04 PM
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Z-Mad

Back when I was trying to calibrate my 65VT50, I found that using a 5% size window with an 18%-23% surround, would move the gamma curve so that by using a gamma setting in the VT50 of 2.4 would be very close to 2.2 in the calibration software without much adjustment.

When I used a 5% windows pattern(without the APL surround),I'd have to make some pretty large adjustments to achieve a 2.2 gamm. I think what was happening was that the extra energy that would have gone into the surround wound up brightening up the windows pattern, thus making the adjustments more severe to push it down. Those calibration I thought looked dark even in a fairly dim room. Additionally, if you're making severe 10 pt white balance adjustment, run a 20 pt white balance and see what your inbetween points are doing. There was an article back during the time that the VT30 was the current set that recommended only doing a 2 pt as attempting to do a 10 pt could possibly hurt as these values shift around as the overall brightness of the scene changes.

In case you don't know, this whole which type of pattern has been argued to death here on AVS. I figured that even if I wasn't doing it the most correct way, I like the picture better anyway and I don't find myself thinking that the picture is too dark.


Best of luck figuring this out.

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post #2083 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

My biggest issue with the 1886 mode is that I cant stand to look at the 2.2 gamma day mode now lol.
LOL, I hear ya... I'll tell you one thing, the 1886 based on 2.6 gamma on VT50 does produce some deep picture: the blacks are incredible!
Chunon, I remember we chatted about the tapered curve before... I may still look into that too. That may be a way to go and a good compromise between power and 1886...
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post #2084 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I like the 2.3 power with a taper at the lower end, there is a custom gamma that goes from 2.1 to 2.3 in Calman that I used for that calibration. Gadget completely agree on 2.2 how did we ever stomach that ? lol

Yeah, that taper helps especially if you have a brighter room during the day.

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post #2085 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Z-Mad

Back when I was trying to calibrate my 65VT50, I found that using a 5% size window with an 18%-23% surround, would move the gamma curve so that by using a gamma setting in the VT50 of 2.4 would be very close to 2.2 in the calibration software without much adjustment.

When I used a 5% windows pattern(without the APL surround),I'd have to make some pretty large adjustments to achieve a 2.2 gamm. I think what was happening was that the extra energy that would have gone into the surround wound up brightening up the windows pattern, thus making the adjustments more severe to push it down. Those calibration I thought looked dark even in a fairly dim room. Additionally, if you're making severe 10 pt white balance adjustment, run a 20 pt white balance and see what your inbetween points are doing. There was an article back during the time that the VT30 was the current set that recommended only doing a 2 pt as attempting to do a 10 pt could possibly hurt as these values shift around as the overall brightness of the scene changes.

In case you don't know, this whole which type of pattern has been argued to death here on AVS. I figured that even if I wasn't doing it the most correct way, I like the picture better anyway and I don't find myself thinking that the picture is too dark.


Best of luck figuring this out.

JimP, thanks for these insights and for your advice... this is very helpful info for my efforts to figure out the best way to get my calibration to where I think it should be... Indeed I have also read plenty of discussions on the best size of windows to be used etc., but have so far always stuck to the regular Calman windows... It may be time to try something different... Which source did you use for the APL windows btw? Thanks again...
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post #2086 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post

JimP, thanks for these insights and for your advice... this is very helpful info for my efforts to figure out the best way to get my calibration to where I think it should be... Indeed I have also read plenty of discussions on the best size of windows to be used etc., but have so far always stuck to the regular Calman windows... It may be time to try something different... Which source did you use for the APL windows btw? Thanks again...

As a Chromapure user, I use an Accupel 5000 signal generator. I would recommend Mascorir's disk but the problem there is that there is something about the colors that makes it more suited for Chromapure and not quite right for Calman. Gotta be careful about those kind of details.

I suppose you could use Mascor's disk for grayscale and gamma and then one of the disk suited for Calman for the color side of it. Mascor's disk can be downloaded free from somewhere within the display calibration section of the forum.

Maybe another Calman user can recommend a disk that has APL patterns and the color patterns suited for Calman.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I think for dark room blu-rays, 1886 would be fine all the time.

I may aim for a 1080p/24 96hz cal for "night mode" and a 1080p/60 power power curve for a regular mode.

Yep, kind of what I am doing. At least with Blu-ray, you have a standard black level and in a dark room, that just works best with bt1886. With cable and other sources, hard to say where black level is and a power curve seems probably more ideal....especially with a wider fluctuation of material in general in regard to gammas.

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post #2088 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

As a Chromapure user, I use an Accupel 5000 signal generator. I would recommend Mascorir's disk but the problem there is that there is something about the colors that makes it more suited for Chromapure and not quite right for Calman. Gotta be careful about those kind of details.

I suppose you could use Mascor's disk for grayscale and gamma and then one of the disk suited for Calman for the color side of it. Mascor's disk can be downloaded free from somewhere within the display calibration section of the forum.

Maybe another Calman user can recommend a disk that has APL patterns and the color patterns suited for Calman.

Thanks... I found Mascior's disk and downloading it as we speak... It does look like a great disk with some awesome menus and patterns... I think I'll give it a try for the grayscale calibration, assuming the Chromapure optimization does not affect the grayscale patterns...
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post #2089 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 05:48 PM
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I've used that disc a lot it is a good one for everything

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post #2090 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I've used that disc a lot it is a good one for everything

Good to hear that from a Calman user... I will definitely try it out. It looks like a better disc than Spectracal's... Certainly a lot more options and windows to try out...
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post #2091 of 2165 Old 01-30-2014, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Z-Mad View Post

Good to hear that from a Calman user... I will definitely try it out. It looks like a better disc than Spectracal's... Certainly a lot more options and windows to try out...

Be sure to read some of the thread. I believe the author acknowledges that there is a difference and that his disk was created to work best with Chromapure. Sorry.

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post #2092 of 2165 Old 01-31-2014, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Be sure to read some of the thread. I believe the author acknowledges that there is a difference and that his disk was created to work best with Chromapure. Sorry.

Have you used the disc Jim? I have, Yes from a pattern structure standpoint it is optimized for chromapure but the patterns works just fine in Calman. You can use the 75/75 saturation sweep patterns for CMS work.

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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Have you used the disc Jim? I have, Yes from a pattern structure standpoint it is optimized for chromapure but the patterns works just fine in Calman. You can use the 75/75 saturation sweep patterns for CMS work.

I have used the disk for Chromapure but not for Calman. Mascori did a phenomenal job creating it.

Here's a link that you may find answers the question about usability for Calman. Short answer is that you can but you have to reconfigure Calman. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463980/masciors-calibration-disc/240#post_23621455

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I have used the disk for Chromapure but not for Calman. Mascori did a phenomenal job creating it.

Here's a link that you may find answers the question about usability for Calman. Short answer is that you can but you have to reconfigure Calman. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463980/masciors-calibration-disc/240#post_23621455

Thanks Jim not sure what settings would have to be changed, I have used the 6.5% standard windows with great success on my ST60. Hope you are enjoying your new set would be curious what observations you have so far. Feel free to PM me

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As an update for those interested: I went and finally bought myself my own i1Display Pro... Of course this made all the difference in my 1886 calibration... Finally I was able to get the proper readings in the low end and a much better calibration. 2.4 gamma was actually rather higher and needed to be brought down a bit instead of being way too low when using a C3 meter... The picture looks a lot better now, and I am seeing some of those benefits of the 1886 curve clearer. It does look brighter than power curve, which is good for details of some content, but as stated before, power 2.3 looks a bit better in some cases... That custom curve chunon was talking about would be the next step... I have a Calman 5 home license, so I don't have custom curves to work with, but what would be the taper? 2.1 at 10%, 2.2 at 20-30%, 2.3 by 40%?
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post #2096 of 2165 Old 02-03-2014, 03:20 PM
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What level if liscense do you have? and congrats on the meter upgrade smile.gif

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post #2097 of 2165 Old 02-03-2014, 03:24 PM
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What level if liscense do you have? and congrats on the meter upgrade smile.gif

It's a home basic license... Yeah, thanks, I'm really glad I finally upgraded the meter - it was overdue smile.gif
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Ahhh I will check the custom gamma curve in Calman then get back to you

Btw I started out at the Control level license upgraded to Enthusiast a couple of months ago well worth it imo

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post #2099 of 2165 Old 02-03-2014, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Ahhh I will check the custom gamma curve in Calman then get back to you

Btw I started out at the Control level license upgraded to Enthusiast a couple of months ago well worth it imo

Great, thanks! Oh, believe me, I have looked into other licenses and want to get to enthusiast at some point: really would like to run the full color checker, custom curves, reports, etc. But had to spend the money on a better meter first smile.gif I'll upgrade the license at some point...
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post #2100 of 2165 Old 02-03-2014, 05:26 PM
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Zmad, Hope this is helpful:


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