Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 757 Old 09-12-2012, 08:36 PM
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For what it is worth, I've been lurking and reading the Panasonic Plasma posts for over a year, including this one regarding IR. Despite the concerns I had from reading the posts, a few months ago I purchased a 65" GT50.

After a few months of ownership, the TV is perfect. No IR, no audible buzzing on fully lit white screens, no problems whatsoever. I am a very satisfied customer

Not to discredit other posters who are experiencing trouble. All products have a % of infant mortality, quality problems, etc. But from my personal experience and that of friends who have purchased a 2012 Panasonic, these are marvelous sets. Maybe will go down as an excellent vintage.

Now if only I was so brave after reading all the posts about how bad Onkyo's 2012 quality is.......
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post #272 of 757 Old 09-13-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

Well they have put this in the manual to, in effect, be careful. So Video games etc for extended periods may be a problem, although they have not stated it as explicitly as Samsung do. To quote from the manual available online:
Do not display a still picture for a long time
This causes the image to remain on the plasma screen
(“Image retention”). This is not considered a malfunction and is not covered by the warranty.
Typical still images
Channel number and other logos
Image displayed in 4:3 mode
SD Card photo Video game Computer image

Right. I have done a lot of reading and from what I have seen IR can still happen but not as bad as it used to be and as long as you don't leave static images up on the screen for extended periods you shouldn't have problems. We have a panasonic plasma in one of our conference rooms that is totally burned in; I mean permanently. You can even see it no matter what is on the screen. Looks like a pink graph or something. Despite that and the issues I have read on here I am giving it a shot. I don't watch channels with logos for extended periods of time, I usually game for an hour at a time or less, I have an HTPC but I'll make sure to put the start bar on hide and screen saver on a couple minutes. I don't think I do anything outside a typical user or anything to raise a red flag not to get this TV. I see plenty of casual gamers in the official thread.

I think if this TV had a major issues it would have bad reviews on Amazon. TV's on there that have a broad issue usually get reported by a mass of people and it's just not the case. Something like IR would even get a response out of a non techie type person. I hope I don't eat my words lol.
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post #273 of 757 Old 09-13-2012, 10:10 AM
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I've had my 60st50 since June and have had zero problems. I have 3 kids who watch nick and disney all day. I mainly watch sports. No babying whatsoever (Although I did run the break-in slides).There are always logos on the screen. No IR.
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post #274 of 757 Old 09-13-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I've had my 60st50 since June and have had zero problems. I have 3 kids who watch nick and disney all day. I mainly watch sports. No babying whatsoever (Although I did run the break-in slides).There are always logos on the screen. No IR.

where did you get your slides from if you dont mind me asking?
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post #275 of 757 Old 09-13-2012, 12:15 PM
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post #276 of 757 Old 09-13-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by vilago View Post

you know, i don't really understand why all the manufacturers went to this "ultra thin panel" technology. it seems that it sacrificed a lot in terms of PQ and panel reliability. I can say that, at least for the LCD tech (never owned a plasma until this summer) that the CCFL backlit panels were WAY better in PQ than the newer LED backlit models. I wonder if the same problem occurred for plasma as well and that's explains all this crap. i'd rather have kuro technology or better and a thicker/heavier panel than the crap they try and push by us today with a marginally thinner screen. oh well.

I couldn't have agreed more! I think all this obsession about how thin the TV is is just ridiculous. I have two professional Panasonic Plasma display, one purchased recently. Zero IR on both of them. The thickness of the TV did not change much in my case after 6 years. I am glad it stayed that way!

Based on what I am reading, I guess the 2012 Panasonic ST/GT/VT are thinner, and more people seems to be reporting IR problems. Something tells me the two are not completely unrelated.

Me, I am happy my Plasma TV is as thick as it needs to be, and as heavy as it needs to be (30+ lb heavier than the consumer 60" counterparts..). I'd rather it be thicker/heavier and produce an awesome picture longer than something thin and light and crap out a few years down the road.
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post #277 of 757 Old 09-13-2012, 02:14 PM
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Hello,
I agree about CCFL LCD's and own a KDL-55EX500, but these 2012 Consumer PDP's have received pretty much universal praise from Professional Reviewers and have the measurements to back that up. I think the biggest disadvantage to how thin these xT50's are is probably the Internal Speakers. Not that I use them aside from break in when I turn off the HT and with HDMI CEC the GT50's Speakers turn on. With now owning 2 60GT50's and having another exchanged, I have experienced not even a trace of IR.
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post #278 of 757 Old 09-23-2012, 11:47 AM
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I'm a newbie , I've had this ST-50 for about 3 + weeks now. I've been very satisfied with the picture quality. Watching HD sources is a pleasure. I find myself watching things I ordinarily wouldn't watch just because of how gorgeous the picture is . But I'm getting a new one sent to me from Amazon . Here's why :

In my case, what happened after about three weeks and to my horror and disappointment, I noticed a ghost bar from MSNBC right at the top of the picture and in the corners while watching other channels. Also another even fainter number 9 from watching one of my local channels. Let me emphasize neither are very noticeable but once you first discover it, its there every time you look whenever the background is light. After spending $1099 for a highly recommended ST-50 plasma, I'm shocked and horrified to have to encounter this problem. I don't want to live with this--yuk. Since this happened during break in , I have less confidence its ever really going to go away . So my only option was to return the set to Amazon, and receive a brand new one , then use the zoom feature from now to prevent that strip bar and logos from ever appearing in my picture while watching cable channels like MSNBC and locals. That's the hope anyway .

I know the ST-50 has an "anti image retention program " which runs a vertical scroll bar across the screen that erases ghosts and images due to IR burn in ..or so they say ? The 15 minute program never ran longer than 40 seconds before turning itself off --weird ? The Panasonic tech over the phone could not get this corrected for me either, hence my final decision to get another one sent to me from Amazon .

Wish me luck .
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post #279 of 757 Old 09-23-2012, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kattpando View Post

I'm a newbie , I've had this ST-50 for about 3 + weeks now. I've been very satisfied with the picture quality. Watching HD sources is a pleasure. I find myself watching things I ordinarily wouldn't watch just because of how gorgeous the picture is . But I'm getting a new one sent to me from Amazon . Here's why :
In my case, what happened after about three weeks and to my horror and disappointment, I noticed a ghost bar from MSNBC right at the top of the picture and in the corners while watching other channels. Also another even fainter number 9 from watching one of my local channels. Let me emphasize neither are very noticeable but once you first discover it, its there every time you look whenever the background is light. After spending $1099 for a highly recommended ST-50 plasma, I'm shocked and horrified to have to encounter this problem. I don't want to live with this--yuk. Since this happened during break in , I have less confidence its ever really going to go away . So my only option was to return the set to Amazon, and receive a brand new one , then use the zoom feature from now to prevent that strip bar and logos from ever appearing in my picture while watching cable channels like MSNBC and locals. That's the hope anyway .
I know the ST-50 has an "anti image retention program " which runs a vertical scroll bar across the screen that erases ghosts and images due to IR burn in ..or so they say ? The 15 minute program never ran longer than 40 seconds before turning itself off --weird ? The Panasonic tech over the phone could not get this corrected for me either, hence my final decision to get another one sent to me from Amazon .
Wish me luck .

What appears to have happened is no fault of the TV and if you do not vary your viewing content the same thing is more than likely going to happen again. Especially during the first 100-200 hours, what were your Picture and Brightness levels? The Phosphors are especially prone to IR and even Burn In during this time. Personally, I avoided all channels like MSNBC and the like during Break In. In addition, avoiding Logos, 3D and Black Bars during this time is a good idea.

All I can say is after doing this during Break In, I have not experienced even a trace of Image Retention. This includes now watching ESPN and other programming with a ticker on the bottom and watching plenty of channels with logos.

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post #280 of 757 Old 09-25-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

What appears to have happened is no fault of the TV and if you do not vary your viewing content the same thing is more than likely going to happen again. Especially during the first 100-200 hours, what were your Picture and Brightness levels? The Phosphors are especially prone to IR and even Burn In during this time. Personally, I avoided all channels like MSNBC and the like during Break In. In addition, avoiding Logos, 3D and Black Bars during this time is a good idea.
All I can say is after doing this during Break In, I have not experienced even a trace of Image Retention. This includes now watching ESPN and other programming with a ticker on the bottom and watching plenty of channels with logos.


Yes my viewing habits did produce IR . And I should also say this is still using the set as intended by Panasonic. But if you get IR its not considered a malfunction and not covered by warranty. I made my second call to them 1-877-958-4372 to talk about these issues . Here are some of the things I was told :

She doesn't acknowledge a so called " break in period " but did say that after a year it is less likely to occur but that it still can occur.
She said to use the set's built in anti IR program after watching games or other shows with logos or non moving graphics .
She said that a dark display or black background from a paused DVD can be used to clean away IR .
Nothing was mentioned about brightness levels or picture settings, either dark or bright .

Normal viewing habits and picture settings have to be altered . For myself , I'll eliminate the very bars and logos in the picture that can cause this to happen in the first place by using the zoom aspect to push them out of the picture-- at least for six months to a year . I'll also use the built in anti IR scroll bar every couple of days as was recommended. And avoid watching 3-4 hour long games in order to prevent logo and bar IR if the zoom is not enough to remove them. In most cases, this set can not be used for normal viewing of broadcast programming for at least for 6 months to a year or else you risk IR damage to your panel .
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post #281 of 757 Old 10-03-2012, 07:12 AM
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i have the bottom and side bars of nfl network showing on my 2 week old gt50. where would i get the full white screen image you are talking about ?
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post #282 of 757 Old 10-03-2012, 09:35 AM
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just run moving full screen content on it for a few hours. don't use any slides for that.
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post #283 of 757 Old 10-04-2012, 08:36 AM
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how do you tell the difference between temporary image retention and permanent burn in. i have been using full screen images on standard, the scrolling bar, and the disney wow pixel shifter for 3 days and still have nfl network on tv, please help
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post #284 of 757 Old 10-04-2012, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by tlb48 View Post

how do you tell the difference between temporary image retention and permanent burn in. i have been using full screen images on standard, the scrolling bar, and the disney wow pixel shifter for 3 days and still have nfl network on tv, please help

It's not possible just by looking at it. I've had both and they look the same. They both appear as darker residual image than the surrounding background on a solid color slide (usually green shows it most). Has it faded much?
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post #285 of 757 Old 10-05-2012, 05:21 PM
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Just came across this, sorry if it was already posted. (Cnet)

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57449881-221/samsung-plasma-wins-cnets-accidental-burn-in-test/

This is really disappointing (the thread and the above article) I was going to bring back my LG LM8600 as I've been spoiled by my 08 Panny plasma, which I only replaced due to burn in, but it looks like I'm keeping the LG after reading all this. I've read some great reviews on the Samsung plasma and will probably go with it.
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post #286 of 757 Old 10-06-2012, 01:26 AM
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I am seeing something different, and I'm not sure what it is. Here is a video. It looks like the rectangular pattern matches up with the thickest part of the back of the tv. Is this a defect of some kind? I dont think there is anything that I could have watched which would have caused this pattern. And this is after having the tv on a white image for the last 3 days, so it looks permanent. I still have some time left on the return policy, so worst case I'll exchange it. But if this is some kind of common problem I would rather just get another brand of TV. I never really had an issues like this with my G15.
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post #287 of 757 Old 10-06-2012, 10:19 AM
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I still say that burn in test isn't a good indicator. we don't have any information as to the settings on each one so it isn't a fair comparison "in a vacuum" so to speak. each tv could have drastically different settings out of the box and if nothing was altered on any of the sets, the outcome could be inconclusive. don't base your purchase on that test i'm telling you.
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post #288 of 757 Old 10-06-2012, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

I still say that burn in test isn't a good indicator. we don't have any information as to the settings on each one so it isn't a fair comparison "in a vacuum" so to speak. each tv could have drastically different settings out of the box and if nothing was altered on any of the sets, the outcome could be inconclusive. don't base your purchase on that test i'm telling you.

Thanks for your reply. I am just so gun shy after replacing one set due to IR that reading the link as well as this thread makes me Very concerned. I am certain that the ST series has exceptional PQ but if I get irreversible IR again I'm gonna be so disappointed.
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post #289 of 757 Old 10-06-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Childs View Post

I am seeing something different, and I'm not sure what it is. Here is a video. It looks like the rectangular pattern matches up with the thickest part of the back of the tv. Is this a defect of some kind? I dont think there is anything that I could have watched which would have caused this pattern. And this is after having the tv on a white image for the last 3 days, so it looks permanent. I still have some time left on the return policy, so worst case I'll exchange it. But if this is some kind of common problem I would rather just get another brand of TV. I never really had an issues like this with my G15.

Saw your video, that's IR that comes from watching either 4:3 content too long or from watching channels that have content inside of a black rectangular box. That will go away with using the screen wipe function or full screen content. You shouldn't get that effect if you're only watching full screen content.
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post #290 of 757 Old 10-06-2012, 01:42 PM
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Saw your video, that's IR that comes from watching either 4:3 content too long or from watching channels that have content inside of a black rectangular box. That will go away with using the screen wipe function or full screen content. You shouldn't get that effect if you're only watching full screen content.

It looks like it might be caused by that frickin WMC screen saver. Exhibit A. I guess its a coincidence that it also lines up with the thickest part of the back of the TV. 16x9 pictures didnt match up, but I forgot I didnt have any 16x9 pictures in the My Pictures folder until I noticed this IR and started to do some tests. The sample Windows pictures line up perfectly. Its not uncommon for me to do something else and have it running when I come back. Its only static for a couple of seconds, so I figured it wouldnt be a problem. I guess it is. I had the orbiter on, but I didnt know it didnt work when on Size 2.

But I havent had the screensaver on for 4 days now, as it has been displaying solid white or gray images only. It looks like its either really, really stubborn IR, or burnt in.
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post #291 of 757 Old 10-07-2012, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by wildgoose View Post

I couldn't have agreed more! I think all this obsession about how thin the TV is is just ridiculous. I have two professional Panasonic Plasma display, one purchased recently. Zero IR on both of them. The thickness of the TV did not change much in my case after 6 years. I am glad it stayed that way!
Based on what I am reading, I guess the 2012 Panasonic ST/GT/VT are thinner, and more people seems to be reporting IR problems. Something tells me the two are not completely unrelated.
Me, I am happy my Plasma TV is as thick as it needs to be, and as heavy as it needs to be (30+ lb heavier than the consumer 60" counterparts..). I'd rather it be thicker/heavier and produce an awesome picture longer than something thin and light and crap out a few years down the road.

These are especially resistant by design, for rotating through those static ads & trivia etc. on a loop, in a waiting room or sometihng. They're actually intended to take the abuse some here insist on inflicting on their consumer models, otherwise it wouldn't be a problem at all. I agree about increased size & weight (& no speakers?) being lowest priority, but ymmv on extra cost. What else is sacrificed in going from the vt's to the pro. panels in terms of Pq or anything else idk.

BTW would you mind looking at the back of yours & letting me know if they are stamp "Made in Japan", or china/mexico etc.?
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post #292 of 757 Old 10-07-2012, 03:58 AM
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How much does the break-in method play in regards to IR? People were complaining about it on the 2011 sets as well, but my ST30 has seriously never exhibited any that could be seen on anything other than a completely black screen for a couple of minutes, and I abuse the hell out of it with an HTPC and tons of video games, this is with mid panel and 84 contrast, and I've got over 2000 hours on it. I used the break-in slides for 150 hours.

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post #293 of 757 Old 10-09-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kattpando View Post

Yes my viewing habits did produce IR . And I should also say this is still using the set as intended by Panasonic. But if you get IR its not considered a malfunction and not covered by warranty. I made my second call to them 1-877-958-4372 to talk about these issues . Here are some of the things I was told :
She doesn't acknowledge a so called " break in period " but did say that after a year it is less likely to occur but that it still can occur.
She said to use the set's built in anti IR program after watching games or other shows with logos or non moving graphics .
She said that a dark display or black background from a paused DVD can be used to clean away IR .
Nothing was mentioned about brightness levels or picture settings, either dark or bright .
Normal viewing habits and picture settings have to be altered . For myself , I'll eliminate the very bars and logos in the picture that can cause this to happen in the first place by using the zoom aspect to push them out of the picture-- at least for six months to a year . I'll also use the built in anti IR scroll bar every couple of days as was recommended. And avoid watching 3-4 hour long games in order to prevent logo and bar IR if the zoom is not enough to remove them. In most cases, this set can not be used for normal viewing of broadcast programming for at least for 6 months to a year or else you risk IR damage to your panel .

I was pretty much settled on buying this TV until I read this thread. Dont you guys think all of the talk of "abusing the screen" which really means watching football or CNBC is kind of absurd for paying $1000+ for a TV that's supposed to not have these type of problems?
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post #294 of 757 Old 10-09-2012, 01:51 PM
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I was pretty much settled on buying this TV until I read this thread. Dont you guys think all of the talk of "abusing the screen" which really means watching football or CNBC is kind of absurd for paying $1000+ for a TV that's supposed to not have these type of problems?

You just have to seperate fact from fiction and ask yourself why more choose these models than not and the fact you get fans of this brand vs that brand also throw in marketing gimmicks .
How many times have you heard salesman refer to LED tv's when in fact it is an LCD TV with LED backlighting or this brand has a yellow pixel also instead of the traditional red green and blue when we all know from grade school science all colors can be derived from the primary 3.
Trust your eyes when you shop there all you have to please some like an over saturated picture thats wielder bright others want as close to the film maker or producers version as possible.
People get mad when you tell them not to turn settings way up not only does it shorten the life of ALL equipment it will usually distort or clip color and sound.
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post #295 of 757 Old 10-12-2012, 11:14 AM
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Hello everyone,

I just received my new ST50 50" TV from Amazon and I'm experiencing something weird after starting the D-Nice slides. I didn't watch anything else, just plugged it in and started the 100 hour aging with the slides. To my surprise, I can see words through the slides at the upper left corner of the TV. I can see words such as "AGING", "SRV TOOL", "FACT TEST", "OPTION", among others. What could this be? Below is a picture of this issue so maybe someone can give me advice. Also, the TV seems to be buzzing pretty bad when the white/green slides come up and I can still hear it buzzing with the other color slides... Is this behavior normal? Thanks in advance.

photo14vh.jpg

Edit: Specified that the TV was NEW.
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post #296 of 757 Old 10-12-2012, 11:50 AM
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Hello everyone,
I just received my ST50 50" TV from Amazon and I'm experiencing something weird after starting the D-Nice slides. I didn't watch anything else, just plugged it in and started the 100 hour aging with the slides. To my surprise, I can see words through the slides at the upper left corner of the TV. I can see words such as "AGING", "SRV TOOL", "FACT TEST", "OPTION", among others. What could this be? Below is a picture of this issue so maybe someone can give me advice. Also, the TV seems to be buzzing pretty bad when the white/green slides come up and I can still hear it buzzing with the other color slides... Is this behavior normal? Thanks in advance.
photo14vh.jpg

Those are menu options from the service menu, buzzing is subjective may be normal may not be. How far away can you hear it ?

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post #297 of 757 Old 10-12-2012, 11:58 AM
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So is it normal to see those menu options when having solid colored images? I'm sitting ~8.5' away from the TV. Are there any issues that I should be aware of or looking for during this 30 day return period that I have? I plan on running the slides for 100 hours to calibrate it.
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post #298 of 757 Old 10-12-2012, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by lyrrad721 View Post

So is it normal to see those menu options when having solid colored images? I'm sitting ~8.5' away from the TV. Are there any issues that I should be aware of or looking for during this 30 day return period that I have? I plan on running the slides for 100 hours to calibrate it.

I've never heard of it but it is most likely just temporary IR that will fade. Buzzing from that distance might be an issue, I've never had a Panasonic "buzzer" but have owned a couple of Samsungs that both buzzed.

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post #299 of 757 Old 10-13-2012, 08:49 AM
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I don't own the set but am seriously considering buying one and it strikes me that a big part of this issue is that the Samsung appears to have the pixel orbiter enabled by default and the Panasonic has this disabled by default. The person with the pictures of IR earlier in the link to the owners thread was using the default settings which means he was specifically not using the pixel orbiter. CNET said they had new TV's and just started running the slides which means the Samsung likely had the pixel orbiter enabled and the Panasonic likely did not just due to these defaults. We have one report that setting up this pixel orbiter pretty much solved the issue and I haven't heard anyone having issues say they have enabled this so I really think this plays a big part in this.

I'd reallly like to see some of these people that have issues with IR, lower some of their contrast and brightness settings and enable this orbiter and see if they are seeing new IR issues. I just really think settings are a big difference between the people seeing these issues and the people not seeing them. I think that is far more likely than differences in the panel from one set to another. I could be wrong but after reading this thread these default settings really jump out to me. My friend picked up a ST30 last year and we took it out of the default settings and used suggested ones from here, put on the pixel orbiter and we watch football for probably 9-10 hours straight every Sunday on that thing with static logos, tickers and score boards and he doesn't have IR issues on that set. Maybe there's an issue with this panel but if there is I would expect just about everyone to have the problem.
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post #300 of 757 Old 10-13-2012, 09:48 AM
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^Interesting view. I am running the 100 hour slides with the pixel orbiter off as per the aging instructions. However, should I turn it on afterwards to prevent IR? Is the picture quality affected when having the orbiter on? What do you guys recommend? To my surprise, my new tv had IR from factory, apparently someone left the Service Menu on for quite a long time. Pixel orbiter was enabled and I had to turn it off before beginning the slides. So when the tv was at the factory it had this option on and still got the IR of the Service Menu. I find it scary that I could clearly see the service menu after turning on my tv for the first time with the slides :S

Hopefully this is not a bad omen. Plus, when the white slides are on, the buzzing is heard from 10+ feet away and it's really annoying. I just hope that this is something that can be masked off with audio on and regular HD content. If not, I am returning it to Amazon. With regards to returns, how is the process with Amazon to get a replacement? Do I send mine first or they send the replacement first and then I send the one being returned?
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