Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 756 Old 11-02-2012, 11:09 AM
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I read that for 2013 Panasonic will be changing to a new phosphor technology that will be exclusive to Panasonic. Could this be to reduce or eliminate IR? The only reason given for the change is to improve PQ.
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post #362 of 756 Old 11-02-2012, 12:44 PM
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someone could you say me where could I find a video with analogic noise (snow) to use in a multimedia player to try to erase the IR?



Thanks.
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post #363 of 756 Old 11-02-2012, 03:55 PM
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Have you experienced a buzzing sound like this with your sets? I'm quoting myself so that this thread can also have this information:
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyrrad721 View Post

Here's a link to my replacement ST50 50" buzzing sound... Exactly the same level of buzzing as the one I returned. I recorded this with an iPhone 4S, the audio was muted and had regular content playing.
View My Video
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post #364 of 756 Old 11-03-2012, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by evident View Post

did the 100 hours slides thing, varied all of my tv/movie watchings for the first full week of owning this tv (after the 100 hours of slides). we had the news on for 2 hours to watch for updates on hurricane sandy. power went out for about 24 hours. but when we came back on and turned the tv on, sure enough i saw the channel 10 logo at the bottom right. ARRGH!!! watched other things and it's starting to go away, but to say that you can't notice it or that it doesn't show up easily is very misleading.
and also anyone who says that watching the news for 2 hours during a hurricane constitutes "plasma tv abuse" is also out of their mind!! i'm still very impressed with the image output of this tv though.

Just want to follow up with my own thread that this image retention went away after about 10 hours of normal tv viewing and running that image retention built in thing occasionally. It started disappearing within the first two hours and was almost completely gone by the 5th hour. To me it was annoying at first, but if it is like this then it's not a big deal at all.
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post #365 of 756 Old 11-03-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evident View Post

Just want to follow up with my own thread that this image retention went away after about 10 hours of normal tv viewing and running that image retention built in thing occasionally. It started disappearing within the first two hours and was almost completely gone by the 5th hour. To me it was annoying at first, but if it is like this then it's not a big deal at all.

Thanks for the update

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post #366 of 756 Old 11-03-2012, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evident View Post

Just want to follow up with my own thread that this image retention went away after about 10 hours of normal tv viewing and running that image retention built in thing occasionally. It started disappearing within the first two hours and was almost completely gone by the 5th hour. To me it was annoying at first, but if it is like this then it's not a big deal at all.

Have posted this multiple times, but - as an Encouragement - our 60ST50 was prone to Quick Onset IR during its early life, but that began to improve at Around the 400+ hour mark, and it currently seems on par with our two older panels, although that is based upon simple Observation as opposed to Deliberate Attempts to cause IR.... eek.gif

Extremely pleased with overall PQ, given "real" HD material (Blu-ray, HDDVD). Alas, viewing distance, panel size, and accuracy of reproduction combine to do TOO Good of a job at "showing off" whatever FLAWS exist in less-than HD programming...
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post #367 of 756 Old 11-06-2012, 04:16 AM
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My ST50 seems to be getting more IR and burn in prone as it ages. I have used it over 1000 hours by now and last weekend I watched Formula 1 race. As a result of that I have now permanent F1 logo. Still after two days it shows up even on normal TV programs when there are certain solid colors in that area of the screen. During past two days I have tried running white scrolling bar found in the menu and I also tried static and after running each for couple of hours that logo has dimished considerably it is still there. For some reason watching full screen yellow image it shows the most.

As a last resort I'm now trying full screen white image. I'm not sure how long it should be ran and should it be ran continuously as long as it takes to remove burn in or can it be ran in couple hours at a time and continue next day (I'm not sure will it work as effectively this way)?

Image quality is excellent on my TV but this short term IR and now burn in is really disturbing and I never would believe TV this old still could suffer from those anymore and even getting increasingly more prone.
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post #368 of 756 Old 11-06-2012, 08:32 AM
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From what I've read, 48 to 72 hours of full white. I hate to say you are a good test person but it sure would be great if this works. It would make a lot of people rest easier concerning the IR issue. If it works or doesn't work could be a deal breaker for some now on the buying fence
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post #369 of 756 Old 11-06-2012, 09:15 AM
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The full screen white images don't work. i did it for hours too. trust me, all it is going to do is run up your power bill and possibly cause the unit to overheat.
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post #370 of 756 Old 11-06-2012, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

My ST50 seems to be getting more IR and burn in prone as it ages. I have used it over 1000 hours by now and last weekend I watched Formula 1 race. As a result of that I have now permanent F1 logo. Still after two days it shows up even on normal TV programs when there are certain solid colors in that area of the screen. During past two days I have tried running white scrolling bar found in the menu and I also tried static and after running each for couple of hours that logo has dimished considerably it is still there. For some reason watching full screen yellow image it shows the most.
As a last resort I'm now trying full screen white image. I'm not sure how long it should be ran and should it be ran continuously as long as it takes to remove burn in or can it be ran in couple hours at a time and continue next day (I'm not sure will it work as effectively this way)?
Image quality is excellent on my TV but this short term IR and now burn in is really disturbing and I never would believe TV this old still could suffer from those anymore and even getting increasingly more prone.

Those are not good news. I received two 50" ST50s and both had buzzing and quick onset IR issues and decided to get a refund after the 2nd unit. The IR/burn in issue is a big problem for me because I play sport and FPS video games. I'm leaning towards LED right now mainly because of that, even though the black levels and PQ of the Panny are outstanding. Unfortunately the buzzing and IR that doesn't go away quickly turned me off a lil bit.

Do members here play video games and get no IR at all on these sets? I really would love to give it another try with a bigger ST50 (60"), but still undecided after having experienced these issues myself on the 50". frown.gif
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post #371 of 756 Old 11-06-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by lyrrad721 View Post

Those are not good news. I received two 50" ST50s and both had buzzing and quick onset IR issues and decided to get a refund after the 2nd unit. The IR/burn in issue is a big problem for me because I play sport and FPS video games. I'm leaning towards LED right now mainly because of that, even though the black levels and PQ of the Panny are outstanding. Unfortunately the buzzing and IR that doesn't go away quickly turned me off a lil bit.
Do members here play video games and get no IR at all on these sets? I really would love to give it another try with a bigger ST50 (60"), but still undecided after having experienced these issues myself on the 50". frown.gif

I own an LG 55"LM7600 LED/LCD. it "works" with the xbox360, but the input/video lag makes your actions so disconnected with whats happening onscreen that you'll pull your hair out. RockBand 3 measured the video lag at about 90ms in game mode 240ms in any other mode. Was awful motion blur in game mode, terrible lag with TruMotion on. Its now my wife/kids tv. They leave programs on pause (why do you do that wife????) for HOURS. No IR at all, not even for a second. So there is that.

Update on my 55st50.
Image retention-burned image. Still there. Been what, a month?!
Green sparkling pixels in any color but white, Still there. Service guy today said its the"a board". Got authorization to replace
Vertical Lines on right side of screen, still there. Service guy says he sees them, panasonic wont fix it now because the TV is so new. (What????)
Electronic hum.....still humming. Service guy says "dont buy a panasonic if the hum bothers you" (thanks, my bros ST30 doesnt hum)
Most disturbing, the guy ran a pattern test of some sort, color bars, black and white boxes ect. He said "your TV failed the pattern test too"

He wouldnt elaborate on what it failed and why in the pattern test, and what needs to be fixed on it. Best Buy went back on there promise to replace the tv. Im going to go into the store tomorrow and make a stink. This TV is a lemon....... it has more than 3 separate issues and the service guy only addressed onetoday. It might help me in the long run with lemon laws, but Im not pleased with bestbuy or panasonics pos plasma.
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post #372 of 756 Old 11-07-2012, 08:52 AM
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i'm telling you, check to make sure there are no appliances giving off electromagnetic interference causing increased buzzing. even a CFL bulb will cause the buzzing to increase. best to check everything before you blame it on the TV, because the buzzing is not noticable on my set, even in a quiet room.
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post #373 of 756 Old 11-07-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

i'm telling you, check to make sure there are no appliances giving off electromagnetic interference causing increased buzzing. even a CFL bulb will cause the buzzing to increase. best to check everything before you blame it on the TV, because the buzzing is not noticable on my set, even in a quiet room.

Its the tv man. Im not an idiot. When my xbox goes to the home screen ita audible over two fans I have blowing. Hit the xbox button on the contoller, the screen goes black and the hum stops. Why do people want to argue and insist that I dont have a problem.because YOU dont?

Analogy for you......
Me: my ford truck has a bad fuel pump. And its a brand new truck.
You: thats impossible. My truck's fuel pump works fine. Are you sure you put gas in the car?
Me: *shaking my head
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post #374 of 756 Old 11-07-2012, 11:53 AM
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yea, its pretty easy to rule out other things buzzing. mine has a faint buzz on bright screens, which i am totally ok with and never hear it over the audio of a movie or broadcast. however, it is clear where it is coming from because when fast forwarding through commercials on a dvr box, the room is completely silent and the buzz varies depending on how bright the screen is during the fast forward movement. i am not saying its a problem for me at all, because it isnt, love the tv, couldnt be happier. but, it is pretty easy to tell where it is coming from in a silent room.

to add to your analogy allwhitemeat:

because your new ford truck has a bad fuel pump, does that mean its complete junk? i would say no. you dont push it off a cliff because of one bad thing. all new items will have lemons or small issues that need to be worked out. so what do you do? take the truck in for warranty work. as far as the tv, take it back and get a new one.

(part of me wants to argue the ford is complete junk as i am a chevy guy. lol)
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post #375 of 756 Old 11-07-2012, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

yea, its pretty easy to rule out other things buzzing. mine has a faint buzz on bright screens, which i am totally ok with and never hear it over the audio of a movie or broadcast. however, it is clear where it is coming from because when fast forwarding through commercials on a dvr box, the room is completely silent and the buzz varies depending on how bright the screen is during the fast forward movement. i am not saying its a problem for me at all, because it isnt, love the tv, couldnt be happier. but, it is pretty easy to tell where it is coming from in a silent room.
to add to your analogy allwhitemeat:
because your new ford truck has a bad fuel pump, does that mean its complete junk? i would say no. you dont push it off a cliff because of one bad thing. all new items will have lemons or small issues that need to be worked out. so what do you do? take the truck in for warranty work. as far as the tv, take it back and get a new one.
(part of me wants to argue the ford is complete junk as i am a chevy guy. lol)
The buzzing alone isnt a deal breaker nor would it make the tv a lemon alone. I just had the repairman from bestbuy show up two days ago. A bit of a runaround to get him to show up, but thats bad subcontracting. But read like two posts up for my follow up to my permanent IR and other issues.

Screen needs replacing. The hud from borderlands burned in after a few hours. Was using the factory firmware, version .9 or something. Now Im at 1.2 something. Since the new firmware I havent had any NEW IR/burn issues. But the orginal "burn" is showing no signs of fading.

The tv no longer generates solid colors, of anything. It shimmers with random green pixel noise. The darker the shade the.more noise. Does it on all HDMIs and in the tv menu. Parts are at least ordered for this problem under my PPlan from BB.

Line Bleed? Bad. Doesnt need to be a line, any solid dark color occupying enough real estate on the screen alters the color of things beside it. Not a little, enough that it looks like two intentionally different colors. U see it in everything u watch. The tv menu produces a strong line bleed effect so Im going to go back to BB and check their ST50 for comparison. Repairman said it wont be fixed, but Im not quiting. Maybe a new screen wont do it, which ill get anyway due to the burned image.

Research the vertical banding issue. I have it too, but they wont fix it now. Repairman said panasonic wont cover it till later (i guess panasonic pays for repaira in first year, then the BeatBuy plan kicks in?). I dont know if they want to see if the new board (green sparkles fix) will clear it up. Or if the new screen fixes that issue also.

Lastly, the repairman had a small powered usb drive which he used for test patterns and stuff. He didnt tell me what he was looking at, but after some pressuring he said the tv "failed the pattern test". I dont know what that means exactly as he wouldnt elaborate and said by the time they get to fixing that, the TV will already have had 3 problems in one year and Ill get a refund. So, Im annoyed at the prospect of having to go through multiple repairs at intervals.

To finish the analogy, if I had a brand new truck, and spent 50k on it and I get stranded by a bad fuel.pump, then the fuel injectors quit working, then the turbo gave out, then the stereo played CD's with an audible hiss (ground loop), I would want a new truck, and a drug test for the assembly line crew.

Thanks for reading

Ps- my ford has been a headache IRL (ball joints, fuel injectors and a transmission at 110k) but then so has my brothers Chevy (blown engine ~90k miles). We haul heavy machinery so we patch'em back up and send them out to work again. Dont make them like they used to. Tremendous power, short lifespans.
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post #376 of 756 Old 11-08-2012, 07:36 AM
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whitemeat, sounds to me like you have a lemon, hopefully you get a new one, but the panny plasmas are not junk, i promise, i love mine
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post #377 of 756 Old 11-08-2012, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allWhiteMeat View Post

Its the tv man. Im not an idiot. When my xbox goes to the home screen ita audible over two fans I have blowing. Hit the xbox button on the contoller, the screen goes black and the hum stops. Why do people want to argue and insist that I dont have a problem.because YOU dont?
Analogy for you......
Me: my ford truck has a bad fuel pump. And its a brand new truck.
You: thats impossible. My truck's fuel pump works fine. Are you sure you put gas in the car?
Me: *shaking my head

i'm just trying to be helpful. either you test out your configuration and make sure there isn't interferece or you don't. i don't really care what you do, smash the tv with a bat if you want if that stops the buzzing. sometimes the simplest solution is the one that is overlooked. if you don't pull out the fuel pump and test it, how do you know the fuel filter isn't just clogged?
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post #378 of 756 Old 11-08-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

yea, its pretty easy to rule out other things buzzing. mine has a faint buzz on bright screens, which i am totally ok with and never hear it over the audio of a movie or broadcast. however, it is clear where it is coming from because when fast forwarding through commercials on a dvr box, the room is completely silent and the buzz varies depending on how bright the screen is during the fast forward movement. i am not saying its a problem for me at all, because it isnt, love the tv, couldnt be happier. but, it is pretty easy to tell where it is coming from in a silent room.
to add to your analogy allwhitemeat:
because your new ford truck has a bad fuel pump, does that mean its complete junk? i would say no. you dont push it off a cliff because of one bad thing. all new items will have lemons or small issues that need to be worked out. so what do you do? take the truck in for warranty work. as far as the tv, take it back and get a new one.
(part of me wants to argue the ford is complete junk as i am a chevy guy. lol)

what i was saying isn't that the CFL is buzzing and you think it's the plasma, what i'm saying is that a CFL bulb plugged in somewhere in the room sends noise through the electrical socket and the tv picks up the signal and buzzes louder. I'm saying this because it took me a couple of hours to figure out that was what was causing it on my set, and I was trying to provide a suggestion. what i am suggesting is flip all the breaker switches in the house except for the loop that has the tv on it, and only plug in the tv, to be sure there isn't some noise getting in the power line from somewhere.

this "signal noise" will amplify the buzzing sound beyond what it should be. i've heard the difference and can tell you with absolute certainty.
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post #379 of 756 Old 11-08-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by vilago View Post

what i was saying isn't that the CFL is buzzing and you think it's the plasma, what i'm saying is that a CFL bulb plugged in somewhere in the room sends noise through the electrical socket and the tv picks up the signal and buzzes louder. I'm saying this because it took me a couple of hours to figure out that was what was causing it on my set, and I was trying to provide a suggestion. what i am suggesting is flip all the breaker switches in the house except for the loop that has the tv on it, and only plug in the tv, to be sure there isn't some noise getting in the power line from somewhere.

I see, i understand what you meant now. good idea!
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post #380 of 756 Old 11-08-2012, 11:30 AM
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I see, i understand what you meant now. good idea!

excellent thanks. i hope that is what was causing it on your set since its an easy "fix"
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post #381 of 756 Old 11-08-2012, 11:46 AM
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mine has only a very faint buzz, so it is a nonissue, but maybe others will find it helpful
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post #382 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 05:44 AM
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As a last resort I tried full screen white image to remove that burned logo. I ran it for two hours and it nearly cleared it. Then I ran it another three hours but it did not make any difference. So in the end it is nearly gone but I can still find it so it is better avoid channels with bright logos even after 1000 hours use.

I have contacted Panasonic support and first person told me this is abnormal but second level engineer says it could be within specs. I ask them to send engineer to confirm but they said it cannot be done on site because they need dismantle it first to be able to evaluate picture... confused.gif
If they found it faulty they will change the screen or what ever part they think is faulty but they will not send me a new unit, great. mad.gif

It is confusing how some peoples here report having IR and burn-in problem even after going through several units and some never seen any. Sound like there are good and bad units but then again considering some have tried several units from different batches it does not sound possible.
I cannot remember seeing anyone who has been suffering from these problems reporting that they have found a new unit without this problem or that their set was serviced and problem is gone. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I really don't know what to do.
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post #383 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 06:44 AM
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As a last resort I tried full screen white image to remove that burned logo.... I really don't know what to do.

If you want to avoid / prevent / cure all this IR Plasma drama, you'll need to know how to take care the plasma tv or any other electronics.

When acquired a new tv / electronics, always leave it on / playing continuously for about a week 24 hours! This will test proof the electronics and proper warming up.

You can use pixel jogger for the tv: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-breakin-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-the-only-way
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post #384 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 06:48 AM
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Several times in this thread it has been recommended that a 48 to 72 hr whiteout (my term, good though huh?) be used to remove stubborn IR. Here is the exact statement. "This stubborn IR is caused by MgO Sputtering - high energy discharge in plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels resulting in a long lasting ghost image that can take days to remove. The fix is full white screen for many hours". I haven't read here where anybody has actually tried this to remove IR and reported on it's validity.
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post #385 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 06:58 AM
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If you want to avoid / prevent / cure all this IR Plasma drama, you'll need to know how to take care the plasma tv or any other electronics.

Do you think 1000 hours break-in period is enough? rolleyes.gif
Yeah, I have been babying the unit that long but finally last weekend I took my chances and watched a full F1 race (nearly two hours) and I managed to get first burn-in logo.

Seriously, if you have read my previous messages you probably got notion that this is not my first plasma and that I'm not complete beginner.
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post #386 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by iBrad View Post

If you want to avoid / prevent / cure all this IR Plasma drama, you'll need to know how to take care the plasma tv or any other electronics.
When acquired a new tv / electronics, always leave it on / playing continuously for about a week 24 hours! This will test proof the electronics and proper warming up.
You can use pixel jogger for the tv: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-breakin-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-the-only-way
I started a thread several months ago regarding how to break in a plasma. The answers were all over the board with many saying they used no break in method at all and experienced no IR and no buzzing. There-in lies the problem. Many just plug their sets in and are completely oblivious to any problems real or imagined. I believe the Panasonic owners manual ignores the break-in question. Many in this thread have chimed in to say they've had no IR or buzzing. The question is "why do some have it and some don't"?
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post #387 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

Do you think 1000 hours break-in period is enough? rolleyes.gif
Yeah, I have been babying the unit that long but finally last weekend I took my chances and watched a full F1 race (nearly two hours) and I managed to get first burn-in logo.
Seriously, if you have read my previous messages you probably got notion that this is not my first plasma and that I'm not complete beginner.

Ok, excuse my bad.
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post #388 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Several times in this thread it has been recommended that a 48 to 72 hr whiteout (my term, good though huh?) be used to remove stubborn IR. Here is the exact statement. "This stubborn IR is caused by MgO Sputtering - high energy discharge in plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels resulting in a long lasting ghost image that can take days to remove. The fix is full white screen for many hours". I haven't read here where anybody has actually tried this to remove IR and reported on it's validity.

Here is one person - Tempest261 - who had some very persistent IR and who tried various ways and seemingly the full white was the best (despite ABL). As you said, this full white has been mentioned several times in the thread. xrox talked about all of this in a post 4 years ago. Tempest261 links in his signature 3 posts which describe his IR travails:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1408338/official-panasonic-vt50-owners-thread/6660_60#post_22388462
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post #389 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

The question is "why do some have it and some don't"?

There are some variables for this.
1) Plasma material/electronics have different tolerances.
2) Most people don't focus on IR or any image impurities, therefore if there was any IR that eventually are gone with normal viewing.
3) People's tv usage on/off pattern, channel zapping frequently, PC / gaming, viewing time of static images/logo's etc.

Personally I don't watch / leave contents with static logo's / images longer then 1 hour, intermittently I just swap channel for few seconds or running the white bar / pixeljogger / screensaver.

Many times I play games for 8+ hours after warmingup beforehand / after few minutes and regular intermittent breaks with pixeljogger, eventual visible IR last only few seconds.
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post #390 of 756 Old 11-09-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Several times in this thread it has been recommended that a 48 to 72 hr whiteout (my term, good though huh?) be used to remove stubborn IR. Here is the exact statement. "This stubborn IR is caused by MgO Sputtering - high energy discharge in plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels resulting in a long lasting ghost image that can take days to remove. The fix is full white screen for many hours". I haven't read here where anybody has actually tried this to remove IR and reported on it's validity.

i've tried it. it doesn't work any better than normal fullscreen content. trust me, i'm not making this up there isn't any "sputtering" effect. first hand experience talking here.

just watch normal programming and if it isn't gone within 1-2 weeks of normal viewing then for all intents and purposes it will be there in some form or another for the life of the set. it's the uneven pixel aging that is the biggest problem. which is why it is imperitive to allow the set to age in the beginning.
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