Panasonic ST50 image retention, please help! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

I don't need some super secret settings, if people want to be that way that's fine. I just want to know how to freaking break it in correctly

You are looking at it wrong he is a calibrator and gets paid for his work he really did not have to post any settings but since he has chose to on another forum I am grateful .
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post #182 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 07:54 AM
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You are looking at it wrong he is a calibrator and gets paid for his work he really did not have to post any settings but since he has chose to on another forum I am grateful .

i understand and that is very cool of him and i will certainly check it out and am grateful as well. but i am not looking for optimal settings on my set, but safe settings to get through the first 200 hours IR free if possible. unless that thread has that in there as well. I will just go check it out. thanks. i was just being a little B last night cause i had to sit in the ER for almost 5 hours for no reason
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post #183 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Just fyi I have a 2011 plasma but dont let facts get in the way of your internet worship. You are have just earned inclusion on the ignore list.

Same here. Putting FALCONMAN515 on ignore so we can have a decent discussion with "FAIR" opinions back and forth. I always welcome pros and cons discussions because I'm not a fanboy of any TV product but I don't welcome forum members that have a score to settle with a company and trying their hardest to C-Block the company from getting any future sales by telling people that they are stupid idiots for buying a "problem" TV. Also my take is if people are happy with what they spent money on who is FALCONMAN515 to tell them that they are stupid for being happy? I personally think the TV that FALCONMAN515 has is nothing but high maintenance. I hate hate hate LCD TV's, especially the full array models because they produce blooming unless you spent top dollar for the high-end Sony or the Elite which is stupid (IMO) to buy because you still get limited viewing angles (requiring you to sit directly in front of the TV to achieve the best picture) and they still can't achieve those cinema-like black levels as that of a Plasma but I don't go trolling forums to set people straight on that all day and night.

Hopefully many others here will follow along with using the ignore function on FALCONMAN515 so we can have a much more fair discussion. smile.gif.

@FALCONMAN515, don't bother responding to this post, I won't see it. smile.gif
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post #184 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

i understand and that is very cool of him and i will certainly check it out and am grateful as well. but i am not looking for optimal settings on my set, but safe settings to get through the first 200 hours IR free if possible. unless that thread has that in there as well. I will just go check it out. thanks. i was just being a little B last night cause i had to sit in the ER for almost 5 hours for no reason

I know the hassle about the ER and I would use his no slide settings and enjoy the TV also if you have a Sony BR disc when it gets to the movie menu punch in 7669 it will give you easter eggs of screen set ups for adjusting your picture but if you decide to get serious Disney's WOW disc would be better and easier for most to use.
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post #185 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 11:54 AM
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thanks oztech
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post #186 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Just fyi I have a 2011 plasma but dont let facts get in the way of your internet worship. You are have just earned inclusion on the ignore list.

Good one less ignorant defending response'!

It can be 2011 or 2001 .... they are DIFFERENT panels completely from year to year and every change or revision brings on new issues (you hope not but sometimes it does)! But you know that ... And still you reply with pointless comments!

And the Worship moves forward with one less faboy to defend an obvious issue (I sure wish I had the same sand you do to bury my head in!).
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post #187 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 12:46 PM
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If your display's IR/BI protection features are on (i.e Orbiters and the like) and you Still got Image Retention that lasted that long, it's UNACCEPTABLE in my book, one should watch whatever the hell he likes on his set without worrying about IR/BI.

If the features are off, it's very important to turn those on. If they're already on, I suggest returning the set and getting something else.
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post #188 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 12:52 PM
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are those protection features just in the tv's menu?
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post #189 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 01:59 PM
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I must say this is my very first post in the TV set area and the IR issue comments in this thread have really taken me by surprise.

A month ago I bought a new Panasonic 50ST50X here in Mexico and I've been using it exclusively to watch BR movies and concerts, and during this month I've never seen the image retention issue at all. I mean, not even once! eek.gif

In any case, I still can't see why some of the people here are so interested in atacking or defending any product or brand. IMO all opinions should be placed in a honest manner in order to be helpful for casual visitors as myself.

But now I'm curious. I don't have a cable connection at my HT room, so this night I'm going to prepare a temporary connection and test the panel with regular TV programs and see whether this IR subject is as bad as reported BY SOME people or not.

SOME people has reported the issue? Ok. Then it is a fact for those people. But IMO the issue should be weighed on a statistical basis, not mere individual perceptions about the subject. A hundred cases out of thousands mean nothing... except for the people experimenting the problem. May be bad luck.

I''l try to come tomorrow with my findings and I'll report them objectively. If the problem is there then it is there. So what?.

There's no point in minimizing it or exaggerating it. Let's try to be helpful to other forum members with objective, helpful opinions.

The best for all of you.
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post #190 of 757 Old 08-16-2012, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

Same here. Putting FALCONMAN515 on ignore so we can have a decent discussion with "FAIR" opinions back and forth. I always welcome pros and cons discussions because I'm not a fanboy of any TV product but I don't welcome forum members that have a score to settle with a company and trying their hardest to C-Block the company from getting any future sales by telling people that they are stupid idiots for buying a "problem" TV. Also my take is if people are happy with what they spent money on who is FALCONMAN515 to tell them that they are stupid for being happy? I personally think the TV that FALCONMAN515 has is nothing but high maintenance. I hate hate hate LCD TV's, especially the full array models because they produce blooming unless you spent top dollar for the high-end Sony or the Elite which is stupid (IMO) to buy because you still get limited viewing angles (requiring you to sit directly in front of the TV to achieve the best picture) and they still can't achieve those cinema-like black levels as that of a Plasma but I don't go trolling forums to set people straight on that all day and night.
Hopefully many others here will follow along with using the ignore function on FALCONMAN515 so we can have a much more fair discussion. smile.gif.
@FALCONMAN515, don't bother responding to this post, I won't see it. smile.gif

Blah Blah Blah Blah ... that's really all I heard as I read this nonsense .... you are completely wrong on your entire assesment of what I am trying to relay to new users, but just the others here you gotta step up the defense plate and take your shots cause you have nothing better to do!

I could completely care less what you think or your opinion really ... with the amount of response I have got (via pm mostly caseu people don;t really wanna ask me anything here cause they will just a bunch of fanboy defense nonsense from you chosen few here) from making potential new users aware of this is satisfying enough for me to know that I may have helped someone save their money possibly that may have not realized this might not be the correct technology for their viewing habits is all ... and a couple I have said based on what you use it for this tv probably will be amazing for you ... let me know what you think if you decide to pull the trigger. I am trying to make them aware of the potential issues and headaches that come with kind of technology ... but if they use it for movies, and mostly hd with not a lot of static tings like network logos and games then by all means buy this bad boy! I would jump on the GT or VT in a HEARTBEAT if this IR problem wasn't a know issue and based on what I have researched my viewing habits with many static items on my tv at all times this tv is not something I would want to chance it on.

Why am I wasting my time here ... really I have helped many so far and if new members come for info I think I have said enough for them to maybe take a second look at this and make sure this is the right tv for them.

I swear it's like aunt flo and all her friends came to town around here lately .... but don't concern yourself with what I have to say... you can't see it anyway rolleyes.gif

And yes ... unless I could help someone with something constructive here I am done fighting the fight in this thread.

As always feel free to PM me like the others have done to avoid the massive defense from pilling up on you here. I am always willing to help and pass forward all the info I have researched thus far. biggrin.gif
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post #191 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 10:56 AM
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Knock it off guys...
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post #192 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrotel View Post

are those protection features just in the tv's menu?
Yeah they should be there, I'd also check the manual to see what they're called.

I'm a hardcore gamer and have been using a 9G Kuro since 2008, 12 hour sessions aren't uncommon on my set, even though the Kuro 9G is well known to be pretty much the most IR/BI resistant Plasma, I still got image retention when I was stupid enough to turn off the orbiters (Kuro's IR protection feature) and I got IR from playing CoD4 back in the day, didn't really have any issues once I turned the feature on though.

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post #193 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 04:00 PM
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if you are considering a plasma and reading this thread, IR probably won't be a problem if you follow these rules early in the life of the TV:

1) make sure pixel orbiter stays enabled at all times, no matter what, Unless you are watching a blu ray with NO black bars. Pixel orbiter only stays enabled when there is some extra "screen space" outside of the viewing area, ala zoom mode, or in the case of the ST/GT/VT sets, you can also set to "size 2" in aspect menu. either one will work. Otherwise the pixel orbiter WONT be enabled. I must emphasize this for video games and cable especially!
2) when watching cable or playing video games, DO NOT use THX mode (neither regular or bright room) for the first 250 hours minimum! Use STANDARD mode instead. Trust me.
3) if logos, scoreboards, tickers whatever are present on the screen during cable, try to zoom them out as best you can. I think the best course of action is actually to alternate zoom and regular mode every 30 minutes or so if you can't completely zoom out the offending image. This is ESPECIALLY important for video games like mass effect 3 where there are some white images that can't be zoomed completely out of view.
4) after about 500 viewing hours, you can ease up a little bit. maybe watch THX mode during regular cable if you alternate channels or the zoom mode like in #3. I would still keep it in standard mode for video games though.
5) after about 1000 viewing hours, you can probably ease up a lot more. use THX while gaming, cable etc. I would keep pixel orbiter enabled anyway, but i would say 1000 hours is the cut off for truely "safe" viewing. If you don't want to follow this procedure, you probably don't care enough about the quality of the picture therefore just get LCD. Neither technology is for everyone.
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post #194 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by vilago View Post

if you are considering a plasma and reading this thread, IR probably won't be a problem if you follow these rules early in the life of the TV:
1) make sure pixel orbiter stays enabled at all times, no matter what, Unless you are watching a blu ray with NO black bars. Pixel orbiter only stays enabled when there is some extra "screen space" outside of the viewing area, ala zoom mode, or in the case of the ST/GT/VT sets, you can also set to "size 2" in aspect menu. either one will work. Otherwise the pixel orbiter WONT be enabled. I must emphasize this for video games and cable especially!
2) when watching cable or playing video games, DO NOT use THX mode (neither regular or bright room) for the first 250 hours minimum! Use STANDARD mode instead. Trust me.
3) if logos, scoreboards, tickers whatever are present on the screen during cable, try to zoom them out as best you can. I think the best course of action is actually to alternate zoom and regular mode every 30 minutes or so if you can't completely zoom out the offending image. This is ESPECIALLY important for video games like mass effect 3 where there are some white images that can't be zoomed completely out of view.
4) after about 500 viewing hours, you can ease up a little bit. maybe watch THX mode during regular cable if you alternate channels or the zoom mode like in #3. I would still keep it in standard mode for video games though.
5) after about 1000 viewing hours, you can probably ease up a lot more. use THX while gaming, cable etc. I would keep pixel orbiter enabled anyway, but i would say 1000 hours is the cut off for truely "safe" viewing. If you don't want to follow this procedure, you probably don't care enough about the quality of the picture therefore just get LCD. Neither technology is for everyone.

While you recommendations are spot on for the most part, they aren't realistic for the average family. Can you imagine telling your kids to zoom out of the logos during cartoon or sports shows? Ain't gonna happen realistically. Also, since this IS an ST50 thread I'd like to point out that there's no THX mode on it. That's only available on the GT and VT50.
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post #195 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

While you recommendations are spot on for the most part, they aren't realistic for the average family. Can you imagine telling your kids to zoom out of the logos during cartoon or sports shows? Ain't gonna happen realistically. Also, since this IS an ST50 thread I'd like to point out that there's no THX mode on it. That's only available on the GT and VT50.
smile.gif

True. I guess you can sub "vivid" or "cinema" mode in then. Point is, use very dim picture settings even if you think it won't be a problem (that was my mistake). Also, I personally wouldn't recommend PDP for families with children when it is the primary TV. Just my opinion, even though I don't have kids, it didn't take long for my GF's 12 year old brother to get that cartoon network logo to make quite a lasting impression even over just a weekend stay. Though, if I had used standard mode along with pixel orbiter I daresay it might have reduced the "damage"
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post #196 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vilago View Post

if you are considering a plasma and reading this thread, IR probably won't be a problem if you follow these rules early in the life of the TV:
1) make sure pixel orbiter stays enabled at all times, no matter what, Unless you are watching a blu ray with NO black bars. Pixel orbiter only stays enabled when there is some extra "screen space" outside of the viewing area, ala zoom mode, or in the case of the ST/GT/VT sets, you can also set to "size 2" in aspect menu. either one will work. Otherwise the pixel orbiter WONT be enabled. I must emphasize this for video games and cable especially!
2) when watching cable or playing video games, DO NOT use THX mode (neither regular or bright room) for the first 250 hours minimum! Use STANDARD mode instead. Trust me.
3) if logos, scoreboards, tickers whatever are present on the screen during cable, try to zoom them out as best you can. I think the best course of action is actually to alternate zoom and regular mode every 30 minutes or so if you can't completely zoom out the offending image. This is ESPECIALLY important for video games like mass effect 3 where there are some white images that can't be zoomed completely out of view.
4) after about 500 viewing hours, you can ease up a little bit. maybe watch THX mode during regular cable if you alternate channels or the zoom mode like in #3. I would still keep it in standard mode for video games though.
5) after about 1000 viewing hours, you can probably ease up a lot more. use THX while gaming, cable etc. I would keep pixel orbiter enabled anyway, but i would say 1000 hours is the cut off for truely "safe" viewing. If you don't want to follow this procedure, you probably don't care enough about the quality of the picture therefore just get LCD. Neither technology is for everyone.

How do you turn on the pixel orbiter? Is SIZE 2 the no overscan mode? I use which ever size gives me 1:1 with no oversan.
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post #197 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 08:09 PM
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You MUST turn on the "overscan"!
The pixel orbiter relies on the fact that there is "room" around the edges of the image to shift the pixels around. If you don't zoom in a bit, pixel orbiter is disabled by default!!

i only emphasize this because i wish someone had given me this advice in the beginning instead of assuming that IR wouldn't be a problem. learn from my mistakes
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post #198 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vilago View Post

You MUST turn on the "overscan"!
The pixel orbiter relies on the fact that there is "room" around the edges of the image to shift the pixels around. If you don't zoom in a bit, pixel orbiter is disabled by default!!

Interesting my PZU58 I always set to the size with no overscan and never had IR on it. I am so close to swapping out to the E8000.
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post #199 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 08:26 PM
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I can't speak for the samsung, I own a panasonic and my comments are more relevant for that manufacturer. I suspect it may be the case that samsungs have some sort of very minimal overscan enabled by default to allow the pixel orbiter to do it's job. I know for sure you can force defeat the pixel orbiter by turning on "16:9" mode though. As far as the PZU, I'm not familar with that model. either way, if you have pixel orbiter, USE IT!
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post #200 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vilago View Post

I can't speak for the samsung, I own a panasonic and my comments are more relevant for that manufacturer. I suspect it may be the case that samsungs have some sort of very minimal overscan enabled by default to allow the pixel orbiter to do it's job. I know for sure you can force defeat the pixel orbiter by turning on "16:9" mode though. As far as the PZU, I'm not familar with that model. either way, if you have pixel orbiter, USE IT!

I have seen a slew of anecdotal reports here as to the efficacy or lack of with respect to the pixel orbiter. To take an extreme example like CNBC with wide scrolling banners, or a logo/bug with say a large white background with red colouring, how does shifting the image a few pixels here and there going to change much, barring blurring the image? I am just asking and not completely posing a rhetorical question.
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post #201 of 757 Old 08-17-2012, 08:59 PM
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I've heard other questions like this as well. My theory as to the effectiveness is that even down to the pixel level, not every pixel is exactly at the same intensity even for a seemingly uniform image. I think that is why shifting the image around makes a difference. The problem is that no one has really "tested" the effectiveness of it, therefore we have to assume that if it didn't do anything the manufacturers wouldn't put it on the sets.
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post #202 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 06:54 AM
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OK so I have run 2 hours of D'nices slides now and then 15 min of the built in anti image scrolling white bars. The result is NBC logo still fairly visible, CNBC logo and bars still fairly visible and the E! Logo still can be seen. They do look like they are diminished, but still can been seen from a distance. For CNBC and E! I have watched neither for more than 45-90 minutes consecutively, NBC was on for hours at a time during Olympcs. That being.said it does seem unreasonable to have to run anti image region patterns (internal or slides) for hours on end this often to get rid of this. To have this much IR with so little static use is not good. Like I have said I had a 2007 PZ58U which was one step down from the top of the line that ear, and have had CNBC on for hours on end and never a hint of IR, and I had that set to size 2 (no overscan). I get there are trade offs, but to take such a step back in IR seems bad. Now I need to decide, do I let best buy swap in another VT50 and try that, this time running break in slide for 200 straight hours, of give up some blacks and go with Samsung E8000?
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post #203 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kluken View Post

OK so I have run 2 hours of D'nices slides now and then 15 min of the built in anti image scrolling white bars. The result is NBC logo still fairly visible, CNBC logo and bars still fairly visible and the E! Logo still can be seen. They do look like they are diminished, but still can been seen from a distance. For CNBC and E! I have watched neither for more than 45-90 minutes consecutively, NBC was on for hours at a time during Olympcs. That being.said it does seem unreasonable to have to run anti image region patterns (internal or slides) for hours on end this often to get rid of this. To have this much IR with so little static use is not good. Like I have said I had a 2007 PZ58U which was one step down from the top of the line that ear, and have had CNBC on for hours on end and never a hint of IR, and I had that set to size 2 (no overscan). I get there are trade offs, but to take such a step back in IR seems bad. Now I need to decide, do I let best buy swap in another VT50 and try that, this time running break in slide for 200 straight hours, of give up some blacks and go with Samsung E8000?

D'Nice's slides aren't for getting rid of image retention or even helping to reduce the chances of getting them. They are designed to age the panel to prep it for calibration only. You're wasting your time if you're using them for any purpose other than what D'Nice says to use them for. Keep using the built-in screen wash sliding white/black bars. They stay on for 15 minutes at a time so you may need to run them multiple times. Other than that it's best just to watch full screen content normally for a day or so and your panel should be good as new.

One thing to note, while CNET's IR showdown between the Sammy and the Panny was very eyebrow-raising I will say that I have seen IR on the newest Sammy's. My local electronics store plays a Blu-Ray of demo movies and I easily saw the "Blu-Ray" logo that resides in the bottom right corner of the screen on both the Panasonic ST50 and the Samsung E6500. On the Sammy especially the IR wasn't just a faint logo, it was quite prominent. Now to be fair it may have taken the Sammy longer before the IR showed up but my point is the Sammy's aren't immune to IR, it's still a Plasma at the end of the day and that's the nature of them. Also you may not like the Sammy's due to the buzzing being much louder than on the Panasonic's. It's sort of a push-pull with these manufacturer's. LCD has it annoying screen issues as well. Unfortunately as a customer you'll have to pick your battles and take the one you can deal with the most.
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post #204 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 08:06 AM
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Good info, but it seems like some is conflicting so I'm a bit confused. Is it better to have bars on the sides or top/bottom and have the orbiter enabled, or just watch full screen movies with no bars or orbiter enabled for early hour viewing? Thanks.
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post #205 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 09:29 AM
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D'Nice's slides aren't for getting rid of image retention or even helping to reduce the chances of getting them. They are designed to age the panel to prep it for calibration only. You're wasting your time if you're using them for any purpose other than what D'Nice says to use them for. Keep using the built-in screen wash sliding white/black bars. They stay on for 15 minutes at a time so you may need to run them multiple times. Other than that it's best just to watch full screen content normally for a day or so and your panel should be good as new.
One thing to note, while CNET's IR showdown between the Sammy and the Panny was very eyebrow-raising I will say that I have seen IR on the newest Sammy's. My local electronics store plays a Blu-Ray of demo movies and I easily saw the "Blu-Ray" logo that resides in the bottom right corner of the screen on both the Panasonic ST50 and the Samsung E6500. On the Sammy especially the IR wasn't just a faint logo, it was quite prominent. Now to be fair it may have taken the Sammy longer before the IR showed up but my point is the Sammy's aren't immune to IR, it's still a Plasma at the end of the day and that's the nature of them. Also you may not like the Sammy's due to the buzzing being much louder than on the Panasonic's. It's sort of a push-pull with these manufacturer's. LCD has it annoying screen issues as well. Unfortunately as a customer you'll have to pick your battles and take the one you can deal with the most.
^

Well bb is swapping the vt50 for another vt50. When I get that set I will run the break in slides and rack up 100 to 200 hours pronto. Have to say the best buy protection plan is great. They will swap set and I'm outside 30 days. They also cover burn in so the manager told me if new t vt50 does it they will swap out for E8000. Gear I know the warranty is expensive, but bb seems to be really improving their customer service. They did the swap hassle free.
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post #206 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 10:42 AM
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^
Well bb is swapping the vt50 for another vt50. When I get that set I will run the break in slides and rack up 100 to 200 hours pronto. Have to say the best buy protection plan is great. They will swap set and I'm outside 30 days. They also cover burn in so the manager told me if new t vt50 does it they will swap out for E8000. Gear I know the warranty is expensive, but bb seems to be really improving their customer service. They did the swap hassle free.

Problem in buying their warranty is how long will they be around to honor it.........
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post #207 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 10:46 AM
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Problem in buying their warranty is how long will they be around to honor it.........

Sad but true seeing as these brick n mortar stores keep diminishing year after year.
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post #208 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post

D'Nice's slides aren't for getting rid of image retention or even helping to reduce the chances of getting them. They are designed to age the panel to prep it for calibration only. You're wasting your time if you're using them for any purpose other than what D'Nice says to use them for. Keep using the built-in screen wash sliding white/black bars. They stay on for 15 minutes at a time so you may need to run them multiple times. Other than that it's best just to watch full screen content normally for a day or so and your panel should be good as new.
One thing to note, while CNET's IR showdown between the Sammy and the Panny was very eyebrow-raising I will say that I have seen IR on the newest Sammy's. My local electronics store plays a Blu-Ray of demo movies and I easily saw the "Blu-Ray" logo that resides in the bottom right corner of the screen on both the Panasonic ST50 and the Samsung E6500. On the Sammy especially the IR wasn't just a faint logo, it was quite prominent. Now to be fair it may have taken the Sammy longer before the IR showed up but my point is the Sammy's aren't immune to IR, it's still a Plasma at the end of the day and that's the nature of them. Also you may not like the Sammy's due to the buzzing being much louder than on the Panasonic's. It's sort of a push-pull with these manufacturer's. LCD has it annoying screen issues as well. Unfortunately as a customer you'll have to pick your battles and take the one you can deal with the most.

++++++++1

Also, interesting note about the sammy. thanks for the info. I suspected as much!
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post #209 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 11:18 AM
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^
Well bb is swapping the vt50 for another vt50. When I get that set I will run the break in slides and rack up 100 to 200 hours pronto. Have to say the best buy protection plan is great. They will swap set and I'm outside 30 days. They also cover burn in so the manager told me if new t vt50 does it they will swap out for E8000. Gear I know the warranty is expensive, but bb seems to be really improving their customer service. They did the swap hassle free.
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Problem in buying their warranty is how long will they be around to honor it.........

I was thinking about swapping the set since I'm within 30 days. how did you go about doing it? since they don't stock the VT in any of the stores near me, it will have to be shipped. Did you just walk in the store with a receipt and tell them the issue and they just sent you a new one, no questions asked?
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post #210 of 757 Old 08-18-2012, 11:21 AM
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Good info, but it seems like some is conflicting so I'm a bit confused. Is it better to have bars on the sides or top/bottom and have the orbiter enabled, or just watch full screen movies with no bars or orbiter enabled for early hour viewing? Thanks.

better to have nothing static AT ALL, doesn't matter where the bars, logos, tickers, blah blah blah are. i almost think the bars could be worse. once pixels start aging at a different rate, can be quite a beach to get rid of!
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